Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Originally posted by error5:

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Back on subject, a lot of this DRM stuff that's talked about confuses me. I recently built a comp with a BluRay/HD-DVD drive and HDMI out to a 1080p setup. Using tweaked XP it seems to be working fine, by the judicious use of four programs I'm even able to play recorded HD movies off of the raid array. Is some invisible switch gonna be thrown in the future which will cause all this (and the HDTV card) to come crashing down? (I know I'm a big noob :P ).

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I have a similar setup with a BD writer/HD DVD reader. As long as you have a certain well-known program from Slysoft and you keep it updated you should have no worries.

I think Apple's problem lies with HDCP. None of their hardware - graphics cards and apple cinema displays - have any HDCP certification. It's HDCP that they don't want to implement in their Macs.

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Thanks error5, I know what you referring to. Well, I guess that's some sort of relief. Nice to have a burner, I'm waiting till the whole shebang- units and blanks- get cheaper myself. After referencing your second paragraph I'm glad I got a HDMI out card.

Cheers.

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!!!!! HANG ON !!!!!

I built my above rig using the reliable Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R mATX. Is it possible that the onboard sound is not HDCP certified ??

Does this explain why I was only able to get DD ProLogicII out of the coax into the amp when playing HD movies ?? (Admittedly it seems to be better quality than DVD PLII)

The above mentioned SlySoft application seemed fix this. I've got DTS now on "Jumper"- it auto selected. Would this be what happened?

Please, if you know the answer let me know- I would be in your debt.

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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!!!!! HANG ON !!!!!

I built my above rig using the reliable Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R mATX. Is it possible that the onboard sound is not HDCP certified ??

Does this explain why I was only able to get DD ProLogicII out of the coax into the amp when playing HD movies ?? (Admittedly it seems to be better quality than DVD PLII)

The above mentioned SlySoft application seemed fix this. I've got DTS now on "Jumper"- it auto selected. Would this be what happened?

Please, if you know the answer let me know- I would be in your debt.

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The reason why you got the Jumper DTS soundtrack (instead of DD) on the coax connection is this: the Jumper BluRay release doesn't have an English Dolby Digital/DD+/DD True HD soundtrack. It has a DTS HD Master Audio soundtrack. You got the "Core" DTS track that's embedded in the DTS HD MA track.

Sorry but it had nothing to do with Slysoft or bypassing HDCP.

In order to get the high-def advanced audio on a PC setup your choices are very limited at this time. Remember that you will need an HDMI connection to your receiver to get Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio. You won't get these from a digital coax or SPDIF connection.

According to anandtech.com no GPU released this year will support advanced audio. The only way is an HDMI sound card like the Auzentech X-Tension. Basically you connect the HDMI output from your video card to the HDMI input of the X-Tension. The HDMI output of the X-Tension carries both 1080p video and advanced audio to your receiver. The anandtech article explains this very well.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3411

A card with one single HDMI output that has both advanced audio on a Protected Audio Path and HDCP 1080p video will be the last piece of the HD HTPC puzzle.

Many many thanks error5, just a quick reply for now as I'm tired atm and only just had a chance to skim the info.

I only have a 5.1 receiver and am not really prepared for the expense of the whole 7.1 extra speakers new receiver blah blah blah and I have been really quite happy with my setup as it is.

I would be happy to stay with 5.1 but I'm not too keen on having to default to DD PrologicII.

The Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R mATX onboard's sound is a Realtek High Definition Audio device (capable of 7.1), on the box it claims "Blu-ray/HD-DVD Full Rate Lossless Audio". So in conjunction with Cyberlink software I might just go analogue to the receiver. it has an excellent s/n ratio as it is. Chatting to my nephew a while ago, who works in audio chip design, this seems to be a quite reasonable proposition- he just said I might be better off using the analogue outputs (now I suspect why).

Please let me know what you reckon- I'll keep you informed of what transpires if you want.

Thanks again , regards.

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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The Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R mATX onboard's sound is a Realtek High Definition Audio device (capable of 7.1), on the box it claims "Blu-ray/HD-DVD Full Rate Lossless Audio". So in conjunction with Cyberlink software I might just go analogue to the receiver. it has an excellent s/n ratio as it is. Chatting to my nephew a while ago, who works in audio chip design, this seems to be a quite reasonable proposition- he just said I might be better off using the analogue outputs (now I suspect why).

Please let me know what you reckon- I'll keep you informed of what transpires if you want.

Thanks again , regards.

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From what I've read the analog connections should do just fine but the audio is downsampled to 16-bit/48KHz (from the full bitrate ~ 24-bit/192KHz). I would check with Realtek and to see if they've fixed the downsampling issue with new firmware.

In the end it may not even matter as the downsampled audio can sound really good depending on your setup.

Cheers error5, that's good news- and advice.

Gigabyte is good with updates but only had the R2.00 ver, the Realtek site had R2.07 ver- only 2 weeks old.

Both are very recent and I wonder if it connects with this at all:

http://www.cyberlink.com/eng/press_room/view_1725.html

and:

http://www.cyberlink.com/eng/press_room/view_1746.html

Not quite sure if it will translate to the analogue audio outputs...yet. Hopefully.

With a pair of decent comp speakers added for the sides I may achieve 7.1 after all! And at a tiny fraction of the cost the cartel expects me to pay for it. LOL.

Well, I have to go off and make/buy some cables now. It's a busy week in many respects. I hope you get email notification as I will post the results here in the next week or so.

Regards.

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So the invisible switch thrown. Even updating Power DVD, using a rented movie and Cyberlink's own check program saying everything is in the green... some new movies are failing to run. This seems because the whole HDCP DRM system is stuffed and even they can't get it to work properly.

That Slysoft app has to be used regardless I've found.

Still... WITH a Blu-ray in the drive run PowerDVD, load movie, go to configuration, under audio tab select "SPDIF", then under that select "DTS remix" (or 5.1) - hey presto DTS out the coax, regardless of whether it's recorded in HD Dolby or whatever.

Audio is coming out at 48Khz. But sounds great. Receiver doesn't seem to decode any higher rate anyway.

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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So the invisible switch thrown. Even updating Power DVD, using a rented movie and Cyberlink's own check program saying everything is in the green... some new movies are failing to run. This seems because the whole HDCP DRM system is stuffed and even they can't get it to work properly.

That Slysoft app has to be used regardless I've found.

Still... WITH a Blu-ray in the drive run PowerDVD, load movie, go to configuration, under audio tab select "SPDIF", then under that select "DTS remix" (or 5.1) - hey presto DTS out the coax, regardless of whether it's recorded in HD Dolby or whatever.

Audio is coming out at 48Khz. But sounds great. Receiver doesn't seem to decode any higher rate anyway.

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I know of some people who have totally abandoned Cyberlink in favor of ArcSoft's Total Media Theater:

http://www.arcsoft.com/products/totalmediatheatre/

Read the HTPC/BD Playback threads on avsforums.com.

Thanks man !!

I was wondering about the alternatives.

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The switches are there in fista and xp sp3 just waiting for the nod from Hollywood. Some OEM releases have had the switches thrown already..I suspect to see if the customers notice and make a fuss.

Particularly watch for topics about fista suddenly stopping doing things it was totally happy to do before a manufacturers/retailers update. SP1 doesn't seem to be the culprit.. To my knowledge (machines I have set up before update then had to roll back afterwards) so far HP and Acer have applied the switch .. hp it seems across the board, and acer only on certain laptop models..( I only have a total of about 12 fista machines to go on.. I don't support the $hit!) Watch them.. DRM applied after purchase is a disgrace.

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The playback issues on HTPC's are usually related to player software bugs. From the posts on avsforums I get the impression that there are much less playback issues with ArcSoft TMT (compared to Cyberlink PDVD). As long as you have SlySoft running in the background most people using TMT report very few problems playing actual discs, rips and ISO's. Plus TMT integrates seamlessly into MCE 5.

Originally posted by varnull:

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The switches are there in fista and xp sp3 just waiting for the nod from Hollywood. Some OEM releases have had the switches thrown already..I suspect to see if the customers notice and make a fuss.

Particularly watch for topics about fista suddenly stopping doing things it was totally happy to do before a manufacturers/retailers update. SP1 doesn't seem to be the culprit.. To my knowledge (machines I have set up before update then had to roll back afterwards) so far HP and Acer have applied the switch .. hp it seems across the board, and acer only on certain laptop models..( I only have a total of about 12 fista machines to go on.. I don't support the $hit!) Watch them.. DRM applied after purchase is a disgrace.

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You're telling me baby- wouldn't a fuss be lovely, hey ?? But I don't think that it will just be the Joe Blows who will be complaining, it might be nVidia, LG etc. etc. as well (who might just feel double-crossed).

So that's what sp3 was really about? I should have realised. I won't use M$ Fista tho - not even for gaming. I've tooled enough with XP, getting it sweet, to go screwing with that bugbear.

But it seems to me the switches are already being thrown. Had to just go get the most recent update of "that Slysoft app" just to get Iron(y) Man running. And my gear is meant to be HDCP certified- even according to the Cyberlink checker program. I think they just want me to run out and buy a standalone device like a PS3 whatever. As long as I don't have a versatile pwning Media Centre comp. that I can do what I see fit with.

YOW!

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Originally posted by juankerr:

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The playback issues on HTPC's are usually related to player software bugs. From the posts on avsforums I get the impression that there are much less playback issues with ArcSoft TMT (compared to Cyberlink PDVD). As long as you have SlySoft running in the background most people using TMT report very few problems playing actual discs, rips and ISO's. Plus TMT integrates seamlessly into MCE 5.

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Hey Juan- could you supply me with a link? I went to that site an all I got was a whole lot of spruiking ads- with some links to some suss sites that made the WOT addon shriek bloody murder.

Maybe you're right about the software- and I will definitely look into that prog. But I dunno, as you can see from my above post, with the latest update from Slysoft the problem was fixed. So how could it be bugs in PowerDVD? It just seems to be occurring from the latest release movies- I have no worries with that prog with everything else.

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SP3 seems sweet enough.. I have installed it a few times (cracked and activated as is my norm for the cheapskates around here-- Don't ask. I will not provide information on how to completely disable updates or crack and activate XP) and it seems nice and stable..

I kill auto updates completely tho.. so i have no way to tell if those switches can be flicked by a M$ update or by installing some piece of software somewhere down the line..

As I won't have M$ software on any of my machines I just have to wait see now for any comebacks which seem drm related and do the forensics when they arrive...

Fista update enabling DRM and application disabling is a proven case for me.. I have seen it with my own eyes. Ended up bringing the bin/cue disk image home and burning it with k3b after failing to get fista to burn it with anything.. roxio/nero/imgburn.. all said "invalid format".. Rolled system back the day after to the one and only backed up (on cd) restore point and it all worked again.. Update (HP OEM) removed all restore points which I knew were there because I had made them 4 weeks earlier while installing software... Interesting isn't it.

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Hey Juan- could you supply me with a link?

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AVS HTPC Forum

Semi-Official BD and HD DVD on an HTPC Configuration/Playback FAQ

I suggest you post your playback problems there. You will likely get very good advice.

Guide To Building a High Definition HTPC

You motherboard is recommended under mATX Mid-Range.

Quote:

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with the latest update from Slysoft the problem was fixed. So how could it be bugs in PowerDVD?

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Keeping Slysoft updated is a must. My impression is that, all things being equal, PDVD tends to cause more problems. This is why ArcSoft TMT is beginning to rise up as the choice among HTPC builders.

Thanks for taking an interest guys. :)

Varnull, I personally won't ask you for cracks etc. I'm lucky enough to have a actual legit version of XP that has no problems with validation and updates. I'm happy enough to let it go as I believe that many of the updates really are about plugging security holes. It's kinda crackpot but I established for myself an order of install (after being frustrated before in the process).Roughly, switch off auto> manually install the things you want (eg. media player etc.)> install the sp3 iso> turn auto on again.

*noob alert* I am kinda interested in how one backs-up and reinstalls restore points tho. Also, got any idea on how to prevent IE from continually assuming it's often the default browser- yes disabled in "program access"? I kinda have the impression it's needed in certain circumstances but perhaps I'm wrong and I should just remove it completely.

Juan, those links are bookmarked, cheers good site. As a matter of principal I'm always interested in media software as long as I can avoid dreaded codec conflicts. Seems I've joined an exclusive club of geek de geeks who like mATX, haha, kind of like Goggo mobile enthusiasts. Tried the ASUS VM model mentioned- I had so much grief with it's reliability and patronizing responses from ASUS- just returning the same board to me with it's CMOS cleared (again). Perusing their own site showed this problem was chronic and occurring with it's HDMI version. These were the best boards available at the time. I was not interested in onboard graphics, I went with the Gainward 8600GT HDMI SilentFX fanless 512 DDR3. Tho quietness was a major consideration I wanted some ability to play games. With raid, the Realtek chip, the ability to expand and it's reliability the Gigabyte was the go regardless of the limited bios options. I whacked in 1066 DDR2 and OCed from 2.2 to 3 GHz no problemo.

Perhaps I should do a review, LOL- they might make me a moderator. (Just kidding).

Cyberlink have a version of PowerDVD for Linux I noticed.

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Cyberlink have a version of PowerDVD for Linux I noticed.

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a) PowerDVD for Linux was annouced in 2004, and doesn't appear to have actually been released or changed since then
b) CyberLink doesn't appear to currently support a Linux version (at least for HD media)
c) The "Ultra" version, which is the only one to fully support BluRay and HD-DVD, definitely doesn't have a Linux version.

Originally posted by Jemborg:

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I think they just want me to run out and buy a standalone device like a PS3 whatever...

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Upon returning Iron(y) Man to the rental store tonight, I asked if they had complaints from customers about any Blu-rays not working.

"Yes, funnily enough, there's been a lot of complaints about Iron Man not working- something about a "format" incompatibility."

"Any of those PS3 owners?", I asked {hopefully).

"Why no", I was told.

So there are playback problems in other standalone (probably) devices but not $ony's!

So poeple who rent movies out might start complaining too eventually. I told them about DRM etc. and they seemed quite happy I had a program that got around this. LOL

I've read that "Batman: The Dark Night" is meant to be the coming champion, spearheading the push forward for Blu-ray in the marketplace. I wonder if they will DRM that up the wazoo too.

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Originally posted by plazma247:

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Cyberlink have a version of PowerDVD for Linux I noticed.

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a) PowerDVD for Linux was annouced in 2004, and doesn't appear to have actually been released or changed since then
b) CyberLink doesn't appear to currently support a Linux version (at least for HD media)
c) The "Ultra" version, which is the only one to fully support BluRay and HD-DVD, definitely doesn't have a Linux version.

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Don't care... mplayer will handle BR streams happily after some tweaking.. not that many of us will ever buy a BR drive.. because we don't think like the sheep.

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Upon returning Iron(y) Man to the rental store tonight, I asked if they had complaints from customers about any Blu-rays not working.

"Yes, funnily enough, there's been a lot of complaints about Iron Man not working- something about a "format" incompatibility."

"Any of those PS3 owners?", I asked {hopefully).

"Why no", I was told.

So there are playback problems in other standalone (probably) devices but not $ony's!

So poeple who rent movies out might start complaining too eventually. I told them about DRM etc. and they seemed quite happy I had a program that got around this. LOL

I've read that "Batman: The Dark Night" is meant to be the coming champion, spearheading the push forward for Blu-ray in the marketplace. I wonder if they will DRM that up the wazoo too.

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The big problem with the Iron Man BluRay was not DRM. Iron Man has no BD+ (only AACS which is present in all commercial BD titles) and it is region free.

The playback problems during the first week were due to the inability of the Paramount BD-Live servers to cope with the number of people trying to connect. This included those using the PS3. This was fixed within 48 - 72 hours.

I've read about playback problems on some players but these were minor. The most common complaint I've read about is on muffled portions of the TrueHD soundtrack when the DRC is turned on in your player.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1043146&page=39

Originally posted by varnull:

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Don't care... mplayer will handle BR streams happily after some tweaking.. not that many of us will ever buy a BR drive.. because we don't think like the sheep.

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Baaa... :D

Now don't be like that Varnull. I'm not into fancy cars, 4 wheel drives and such, but I like my video/media. We've got a 50" 1080p Panasonic Plasma and it's just... lovely. Since I was putting together a Little mATX for the thing I thought I might as well chuck in a BR drive, and whilst good DVD upscaling looks great in 1080p, HD at that size looks better, you can tell the difference. And since BR discs are the same price to rent well... meh.

Games look awesome and my wife being a photography artist loves to display her work on the thing as well. It's a proper monitor.

If I knew how to get Linux to play BD and run the twin HD tuner card I might try it.

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On topic: If you want "Mac" with BluRay get a Psystar clone.

Psystar slaps Apple around, releases Mac clones with Blu-ray / GeForce 9800GT

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While suits from Psystar and Apple are currently attempting to work things out via alternative dispute resolution, the former company is doing something the latter company won't: offer OS X-capable machines with built-in Blu-ray and NVIDIA's GeForce 9800GT. Showing no mercy whatsoever in a recent release, Psystar calls Steve Jobs out for his controversial "bag of hurt" comment and proceeds to inform the general public that it's "now shipping" OS X-compatible PCs (better known as Open Computers) with Blu-ray optical drives and the GeForce 9800GT GPU. Based on pricing figures gathered from the company's website, a 6x Blu-ray writer is a $310 upgrade over a dual-layer DVD burner, while the 512MB GeForce 9800GT will set you back $200 more than the 8600GT. Whatcha got to say now, Steve? Huh? Huh?

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Originally posted by juankerr:

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On topic: If you want "Mac" with BluRay get a Psystar clone.

Psystar slaps Apple around, releases Mac clones with Blu-ray / GeForce 9800GT

Quote:

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While suits from Psystar and Apple are currently attempting to work things out via alternative dispute resolution, the former company is doing something the latter company won't: offer OS X-capable machines with built-in Blu-ray and NVIDIA's GeForce 9800GT. Showing no mercy whatsoever in a recent release, Psystar calls Steve Jobs out for his controversial "bag of hurt" comment and proceeds to inform the general public that it's "now shipping" OS X-compatible PCs (better known as Open Computers) with Blu-ray optical drives and the GeForce 9800GT GPU. Based on pricing figures gathered from the company's website, a 6x Blu-ray writer is a $310 upgrade over a dual-layer DVD burner, while the 512MB GeForce 9800GT will set you back $200 more than the 8600GT. Whatcha got to say now, Steve? Huh? Huh?

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T-T-t-opic Breaker breaker *breaker* (sorry i just had too)

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Hmm Juan, that looks like a groovy machine- I had no idea it existed. However the posts afterwards complain that it would be useless for playing Blu-ray without an equivalent of the "Slysoft app".

Breaker breaker... Is there a scroll wheel on the Mac mousey? Can you incorporate a mouse of your own choosing? Real question- I don't know. :P

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Originally posted by Jemborg:

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Hmm Juan, that looks like a groovy machine- I had no idea it existed. However the posts afterwards complain that it would be useless for playing Blu-ray without an equivalent of the "Slysoft app".

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Have you ever heard of Boot Camp?

Originally posted by Toshibot:

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Have you ever heard of Boot Camp?

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Toshibot is right. I have no trouble running SlySoft on a Mac Book Pro using Boot Camp or Parallels Desktop.

Originally posted by error5:

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Originally posted by Toshibot:

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Have you ever heard of Boot Camp?

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Toshibot is right. I have no trouble running SlySoft on a Mac Book Pro using Boot Camp or Parallels Desktop.

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Why yes of course, how silly of me. I should have ignored the stupid posts there...forgot.

Boot Camp sounds like a great thing. It, for instance, gets around the gaming lack of Macs but still you can run the programs you like- I think having choice and versatility is the go. Do you have the Mighty Mouse btw? Do you get onboard Raid with such a thing ( or the Psystar)? Usable in both OS's?

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