If anyone bothers to read more into this subject, you will read that Ted Stevens got school in the ways of Broadcast flagging and then he ended putting RIAA on the spot.

This is a few days old now (at least when I read it), late topic on AD.

Saturday, January 28, 2006
Senators figure out the Broadcast Flag, curse it as an abomination!
The Senate Commerce Committee's hearings on the "Broadcast Flag" and "Audio Flag" proposals have been derailed because senators on the committee now use technologies that would be threatened by the flags.
The Broadcast Flag and Audio Flag proposals would require anyone who build a digital TV or radio device to use technology to control what sort of other devices -- like portable players, recorders and PCs -- could be connected to them. That means that your ability to watch a TV show on your laptop or listen to a recorded digital radio program on your iPod would hinge on whether the manufacturers of these devices can proved to a regulator that they weren't disrupting Hollywood's entrenched business-models.

Until now, lawmakers have been reluctant to speak out against this. A combination of expert lobbying and technological ignorance has made Congress suicidally willing to consider proposals to break America's televisions.

But in yesterday's Commerce hearings, two Senators altered the course of events. First MIT grad John Sununu of New Hampshire said that government mandates "always restrict innovation" and then 82-year-old Ted Stevens of Alaska talked about the iPod he'd gotten for Christmas and put the RIAA's Mitch Bainwol on the spot about whether his proposal would break Stevens' ability to move digital radio programs to his iPod and listen to them in the most convenient way (it would).

This is a momentous occassion: two powerful senators have woken up to the impact that these proposals will have on their voters. As more and more lawmakers get wise to how these things will harm their constituents' interests, it will get harder and harder for entertainment mouthpieces to go crying to government to enshrine their cushy business-models in law.

[Sununu] pointed out that "we have a whole history of similar technological innovation that has shown us that the market can respond with its own protection to the needs of the artists." And he concluded with one of the most damning depictions of the ahistorical nature of the flag (clip from Congressional RealVideo) you'll hear on the Hill:
"The suggestion is that if we don't do this, it will stifle creativity. Well...we have now an unprecedented wave of creativity and product and content development...new business models, and new methodologies for distributing this content. The history of government mandates is that it always restricts innovation...why would we think that this one special time, we're going to impose a statutory government mandate on technology, and it will actually encourage innovation?"
The second revelation, dropped into the later discussion of the RIAA's audio flag, was that Senator Stevens' daughter bought him an iPod.
This is unhappy news for the RIAA. Once again, their representative was forced to burst into praises of MP3 players (a technology his organization attempted to sue out of existence in 1998).

And when Stevens asked whether with the audio flag in place he would be able to record from the radio and put the shows onto his iPod: that's when the RIAA's Mitch Bainwol really began to sweat.

With that simple question, the octogenarian Senator encapsulated arguments about place-shifting, interoperability, and fair use that would have taken whole federal dockets to explain a few years ago.

Even more damning was Senator Sununu's follow-up question, in which he asked if, post-flag, the Senator might record three songs from the radio today, and listen to only one of them again tomorrow. Of course, under the RIAA's proposed controls, you may not: this is "disaggregation" in their language. This flag, which was sold to Congress to impede piracy, appeared to be designed primarily to control and inconvenience law-abiding, ripping, mixing, modern-day Senators.

nevermind, i read that backwards.

die already old man.

The fact that one country uses more gas has nothing to do with ignorance, stupidity, or greed. Looking at the geographic details, population density, and percentage of individuals who feel the need to drive; it is only normal. The US is a big country, with a lot of land, and there are so many citizens. The fact of the matter is that not everyone has the luxury of finding a good job in walking distance. And not everyone has an equal chance to get to public transportation. Some people have more things that they have to get done in their time than others. And when you push up the population numbers in comparison, you'll find that our gas consumption is nothing above par. Many countries have much much lower gas needs. This is true. But if you look at these countries, they are countries where the same technologies, the same marketplaces, the same economies don't exist. This isn't a racist statement, this isn't a liberal or conservative statement. This is a statement that before EITHER side starts blaring their hate and disgust for eachother (One way or another, whatever you want to call it, no matter who you are, it's nationalism; which can be a good thing and a bad thing; depending on how it is voiced) it is wise to stop and consider facts first. Look into these things; then talk. And don't reseort to 'you people' or words like 'arrogant', etc. This thread, and this messageboard should never end up being a place for these things.

It saddens me that it has resorted to this. It wasn't even the thread's topic to begin with.

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moveon.org is a far left wing organization.

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Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. What is the relevence to it in this post? What point does this prove other than to say "I don't like your opinion, it's dumb"?

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Redneck bigots like pa104

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Ooooooooohhh, name calling. A great start to a political debate. This method is truly effective; assuring that no matter who reads what you say next; they've already written you off, for your blatant, beligerant open hate.

Oh; Hitlerites is a relatively new term to me; I assure you, regardless of where an individual stands, this term won't get you far with anyone. It's an ignorant and unnecessary slanderous phrase.

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It's funny how you libs all-

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Please... please... please... This is just asking for all kinds of retaliation. Liberals and Conservatives share one huge thing in common... They have nothing in common. No two liberals are the same. Just in the same way no two conservatives are. The only two liberals or conservatives that are the same, are the stereotypes that you store in your head, whether you created these figments yourself or allowed the mass media to do it for you. There is no 'all you' statement having anything to do with politics that will ever be apllicable for any group.

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Back to the Brodcast flag issue, why don't you do something constructive and write to your congressmen to let them know your point of view instead of crying in your Red Bull and pounding out BS on your laptop?

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Wisdom! Wiiiiiiiiiiissssssssssssdddddoooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmm!
Seriously though. This is the most valid point that I've seen posted here in a while. Thank you so much. Constructive suggestions are so helpful. In all seriousness, posting your opinion on how you do or don't like something is great; but I do urge everyone here to really pay attention to these things. When important issues come up, write your congressman, send a letter to your senator, your governor. They are here to represent you; and can best do so with your input. If no one takes the time to tell them about these; how are they to know what Americans think?

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I am actually a member of the UK Conservative Party. Which is liberal by your idiot views. Please don't come back with the racist argument that I am not American so I don't count. Have you ever considered the World? Not the world as seen by arrogant Americans. Thank God they are a small portion. Unfortunately most of them are on the web.

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It's funny how you automatically assume both that we see you as liberal, and that we are all idiots. Thanks. I'll remember that, in your own ignorance to knowing any of the people in this thread or on this forum (Save those having already posted less than intelligent responses) you have labeled them all idiots. And clearly, that makes you much more intelligent. It's really good to know that you feel an entire nation is arrogant, despite the fact that, as stated before, only 32% of the nation even approves of what it's leader is doing. Given, again, that more do need to get off their duff and get involved in democracy in general, in order for anything to get better. I personally make an effort to educate myself on many political topics, and to know both where I stand, and why. That is the biggest problem that I see, and it's rather consistent.

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lol..actually you are ________

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It really would be lovely if we could all just stop the name calling. Political debate is wonderful. I think that if we had more open debates in politics, we would make a lot more progress. That goes for America and everyone else. Debate is a healthy way to discuss important issues and really see an intelligent resolution most of the time.

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it is funny to me when anti-americans world-wide take a arrogant holier-than-thou stance against the those that they label ignorant and arrogant.

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Unfortunately, it's not funny, it's sad. It would be so much more simple, so much more productive if this didn't happen. And in turn, it would be so much more productive if these same people weren't written off by the same people they debase as well. It's not pointful, it's not productive, and it's certainly not helping anyone anywhere.


I'm sure at this point that posters will still come in here and continue flaming eachother and probably me as well; and that's just to be expected, but I really wanted to point out that neither side of the ugly argument you were both starting was right, and neither side was being civil. And if this would change, then this would be a much better discussion thread.

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Oh the irony.

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Indeed.... Oh how it stings me.



....Flame away.

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Well I guess I am in the 32% that supports the ones in charge...

It is crazy that people label Americans "Ignorant and Arrogant." At least until the shooting starts. Then it is our blood that "pays" for your freedom.

Hitlerities? How dare you compare anything that happens in this great nation to ANYTHING by the man who created the reich... My Grandfathers family was slaughtered in the camps by that evil bastard. If we ignorant and arrogant didn't intervene, you would be speaking German right now.

I love my country, and have served my country. That doens't make me arrogant. That makes me a patriot.

Strange how anti foreign my fellow Americans are.

I live currently in the UK but I am a US citizen.

The difference between the rest of the world and the US is that the rest of the world can take criticism. They know that the 'richest nation in the world' does not mean 'the most intelligent nation in the world' or even 'the most moral nation in the world'.

The American nation has fought for democracy, or at least the American version of it. Wonderful. And I am sure the world thanks us for it.

The Brits and the French have fought for their versions. They just aren't as rich.

A fellow countryperson of mine (from Texas) had me gobsmacked in a chat room once when she said that the UK was not a democracy because it was ruled by the Queen! Please America - learn about the rest of the world. The Queen does not rule Britain.

I am happy that only 32% of US citizens are stupid. That puts us amongst the best nations. BUT WHY ARE THEY ALL ON AFTERDAWN?

In the UK we are 8 hours ahead of Pacific time. I will therefore wish you all good night.

I think Europe is at least 8 hours ahead of Pacific time in most things. In fighting Hitler they were 3 years ahead.



Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire.

Whoever believes that crap should be tortured - G.W. Bush.

@Handsom

Here is the legal dimension attributed to "flaming"
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LIBEL ON THE INTERNET
Internet users have been "flaming" others on Internet e-mail, news groups and in Chat lines for years. For those of you who are new to the Internet, "flaming" [as defined in Eric Raymond's Hacker's Dictionary] means posting messages "intended to insult and provoke". In other words, someone posts a message for others to read which insults and/or provokes readers against another person or company.
People and companies are now suing these "flame" posters and/or the Internet site host for Libel. Before we look at some of these lawsuits, let me explain what is legally defined as Libel.
DEFINITION: Libel is the publication of a false statement, (and is not a privileged communication) which injures one's business or personal reputation.
A plaintiff who sues for Libel must prove all of the above and be able to demonstrate some type of resulting damage. This could include being shunned by friends and associates, inability to obtain work because potential employers believed the false accusations. Some states allow for a jury to assess damages based generally on reputational harm.
Privileged communication means statements made during judicial proceedings, legislative proceedings, and those made between spouses (in most states). You can lie all you want under these circumstances and not be able to be successfully sued for Libel.
The U.S. Supreme Court also created a defense based on the First Amendment's Freedom of Speech to allow the media to freely report on the affairs of "public" persons unless the statements are made with "Malice". NY Times v. Sullivan, 376 U.S. 254 (1964). Malice means either knowledge of the falsity or reckless disregard for the truth. A "Public" person is one who has special prominence in the affairs of society. Gertz v. Robert Welch, Inc., 418 U.S. 323 (1974). A politician, movie actor, and other "famous" people are "public figures". Other limitations and/or defenses to being able to successfully sue for Libel are:
1. It's the truth. If you have facts and evidence supporting your statement as being true, the plaintiff will not be able to prove that it is false.
2. The group being defamed is too large so as not to be defamatory to any individual. Let's say you write "Lawyers are crooks". John Lawyer will not be able to hold you liable for Libel because it does not specifically say "John Lawyer is a crook".
3. Statements of Opinion and not fact are generally immune from Libel. That's because an opinion can never be proven false. However, if your opinion implies your knowledge of an underlying set of facts which your opinion is based upon, Libel might exist. For instance, stating that a certain business in your opinion "is a fraud" implies that you know of some facts indicating the business has committed fraud. On the other hand, stating "I don't like that business' product" is merely expressing your individual tastes which is not Libel.
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The Brits and the French have fought for their versions.

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I'll give you that one.

And I will agree to disagree on the rest of what you had to say...

Good Morning Webwise. I didn't mean to ruin your day. It just seems to me that Americans issues should be dealt with by Americans in America. Your claims of citizenship notwithstanding. Not racist, just geographical. Blame it on an Alaskan reading about an Alaskan issue. Even when I read about how the Brits are screwing the Irish, I don't call them names or say things as if I know them. You don't know me or us very well, at least you don't show it with your self-loathing drivel. And by the way, I say that in the most gracious possible manner. You may be webwise, but if you can't spell you are still ignorant. Thanks for your help.

Next person to post a completely irrelevant comment will be suspended. This is for "News Comments" only, not for people to argue who's country or political views etc. are better. Now perhaps we can get back on topic....

Yeah leave it to the big wigs in Washington to help Industry they scratch one anothers backs.All that financial aid from lobbists you know.Those lobbist will destroy this country one way or another.Would any one know the status on this bill? Will we find out on Afterdawn soon? Pray it doesn't pass.

Finally, thank you

I was hopeing we could get back to the topic at hand which is broadcast flags. I did not intend to continue a discussion on politics (I belong to other bloggs for that) but I could not let a political statement go unanswered. I really hate it anyway when there is name calling (I see this on my political bloggs all the time) and I believe that kind of stuff negates your argument anyway. I think the use of broadcast flags is wrong and is an attempt to control your devices from an external source controlled by the music, movies and television industry.

mystic
Quote: "welcome to comunist america"
It discustingly sad but it's true. They "really need" to protect ther interest (in every cotton field).
handsom
Quote: "This is a huge hamper on our economy. Companies have to specially design their hardware for our country, so that they don't violate our laws."
If i get you right it's quite the opposite, it would get politicians to say that they "open new works" cause it would boost need for "useless devices" which purpose would be to collect "more taxes from movies".
pa104inf
Quote: "we wouldn't be paying 3.00 for a gallon of gas as well as potentially paying 5.00 to 7.00 for a gallon of gas. moveon.org is a far left wing organization"
It's interesting you don't like to pay for gas, and you referr to moveon.org (any organization that at least tries to enhance customer rights for that matters thats) as "left wing" organization. Well everything that we use we need to pay, but i simply hate to pay for the same movie "thousand times" or everytime they reinvent some "new tech" cause the old one were really crappy. Whole mpeg idea is to make small movements from total crap to less crappy solutions. Did you ever question yourself why aren't there more competetive solutions for "mpeg", i'd say veto, protection, lobby ... (whatever you call it)
TheronMcG
Quote: "Our Senator is trying to do right, and like everybody sometimes gets on the wrong side of issues, like the broadcast flag issue."
I know every state has to have few senators but it's definetely good to be one from Alaska there are not so many people there nad 99,8% i believe don't care about who collect "their butter" in d.c. So this statement that this guy every once in a while gets himself on the wrong side just couldn't hold all that BS. It good to have third world country in your pocket (and give it a state rights), i believe you cheer a global warming so we could spent our summer holidays in your "maritime climate".

to see the downfall of the american product line fall to the wayside was going to happen the world has always looked to see what was new from hollywood or from the auto makers ...if they alow this bill to pass then no one will want to buy anything from the americans. our oil from alaska is about the only export next to food that we have left and if we the americans cant get with the program then its going to get alot worse for the world we have imposed laws about music and movies to other world leaders and they have bought it hook line and sinker.... fair trade .... this world needs to take a step back and change its direction as a world not country by contry if we use up all the natrual resources then flags on a future snoop dog cd wont matter it will already be to late the reason little issues like this keep popping up is to distract you from the big ones.... hold on look at the shiny look look and now you forgot about the issue at hand ... wow some senator might not get to download to his IPOD oh my how sad how about the rest of the world thats starving or frezzing to death because theres no more oil... really people we all have it wrong we need a world government and the the finger pointing can stop and just maybe some work could get done......

Dela, please remove mystic's comments or suspend mystic from this post before I have to respond to mystic's comments. Mystic referenced me directly and I feel obligated to respond. I know you mentioned the suspension in your post and I don't care to be suspended but I will not let a comment directed at me go unanswered.

@pa104inf

Mystic did NOT address you by name. It was koblow. mystic's name was just at the top of koblows post. Go back and look before you flame someone erroneously. Mystic was back on topic.

Get back on track people. Jesus! Is it that hard? Any adults here willing to drop it?

Sorry about that Mystic, I now redirect my comments to the actual offending party and would like to see that person suspended from this thread. Let's get back on track. If you want to engage in politics go over to some place like huffingtonpost.com and I who are one of the small number of conservatives on that blogg will be happy to engage you in heated discourse.

Quick question...

Would these "broadcast flags" affect the older TV Capture cards, or just the new ones in production?

I seem to remember a similar "flag" for high def TV. But if I recall correctly, it did not affect the older cards. Just the new ones.

Same here?

Boy there sure are alot of angry people here.Is this the site for insults and boxing gloves folks?Can we keep to the topic please.

Just wondering.. How did you manage to change the topic from broadcast flags to oil, US vs. rest of the world, USSR etc. bullshit. Get a grip..

The next person to make a comment about anything BUT broadcast flag will be suspended for a month I don't care who it is.

Everybody is talking about the broadcast flag bill, but what they forget to mention, is that you can effectively change the course of this bill by writing to this senator.

Yes, that's right, there are about 100000 plus members in afterdawn, that presumably live in the States, speak out against that bill by either sending mail, writing emails, etc.

Well i,am happy to be a proud canadian. I,am also thankfull for my freedom to the internet. i justed wish that the big business and government would not get so greedy.

"In effect, it would allow broadcasters to veto any features of digital televisions and downstream devices. So the FCC acting on behalf of these broadcasters could dictate the design of video recorders, optical drives, network interfaces, hard disks, computers and operating systems all in the name of preventing piracy. This would ultimately give Hollywood studios control over technology and ensure that technological innovation does not affect their business model."
This really does come down to the control of the doller.
The difference between the rest of the world and the US is that the rest of the world can take criticism. They know that the 'richest nation in the world' does not mean 'the most intelligent nation in the world' or even 'the most moral nation in the world'.

Thank you again, hot_ice; for bringing the point back up to write your local congressman. It has been mentioned here before, and is vital to making sure our opinions, as citizens, are heard.

And thank you staff, for putting a cap on the thread's topic. We appreciate it.

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handsom
*standing apluse*
go get im ^^

opper
dont be so smug the canidiain courts ruled that a corpate crop could size land and properity of small farms aroudn them becuse thier monster plant raped (pollenated) near by crops.
Coperations rule all,and its moeny that binds themtogather,I wish the US would focus on Corn gas and otehr things that would get us off oil in 5 years battery pwoered cars and the like will take 50 years to make it worth owening one.

Its funny we have seen them try to amke selling of used copies illage,tapeing off the TV illagle and now they want to make digital tapeing illagle.......fck them is all I ahve to say.....I will not pay more for soemthign I can do right now for free (tape from TV f U tivo.....)