AfterDawn: Tech news

Study shows a third of US and UK residents copying DVDs

Written by Rich Fiscus (Google+) @ 09 Jul 2008 13:21 User comments (31)

Study shows a third of US and UK residents copying DVDs According to a new study funded by Macrovision a third of all US and UK residents have copied at least one DVD in the last 6 months. In the UK the number is around 32%, compared to around 36% in the US.
Among other things the report from Futuresource Consulting titled 'Consumer Home Piracy Research Findings' concludes that
  • Around one third of all respondents in both countries admit to making copies of pre-recorded DVDs in the last 6 months, up from just over a quarter of respondents in 2007.

  • UK respondents showed a significant increase in copying TV shows on DVD when compared with 2007.

  • In the last 6 months, DVD copiers have copied an average of 12 titles of all genres in the USA and 13 titles of all genres in the UK

  • In the last 6 months, the average number of movies copied in the UK was 13 new release and 9 catalogue; in the USA the figures were 7 and 6 respectively.

  • The majority of UK and USA respondents would most likely buy these movie titles new at sale or promotional price.

But do these results really show what Macrovision would like you to believe or are they really a sign that DVDs cost more than consumers are willing to pay?

Maybe we should start with a fact not included in their list. According to the Entertainment Merchants Association (EMA) video game spending was up by more than a third last year. So while people may have indicated an interest in buying DVDs if they couldn't copy them, what would happen if you amended the question to ask whether they would stilll buy more movies if it meant fewer video games?

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31 user comments

19.7.2008 14:01

Quote:
But do these results really show what Macrovision would like you to believe or are they really a sign that DVDs cost more than consumers are willing to pay?
That is a really good question. I would like to believe that it is a sign that DVD's cost more than the majority of consumers are willing to pay. There still are people willing to pay "New-Release" prices for DVDs.

A few questions I would like to add to vurbal's that I would be curious to have answered by a poll:

What is a reasonable amount someone is willing to pay for a DVD?

Would offering a lower price on DVDs convert enough "pirates" to offset the loss of profit due to the lower price?

29.7.2008 14:18
susieqbbb
Inactive

This is a great issue..

Because when A dvd first comes out here in the u.s most stores here mark them on sale 14.99 to 17.99 then after jack them back up in price which i found is kinda illegal it should stay at the on sale price no matter what...

Company's would make a lot more money faster and there Profeits would climb.

The only problem is that movie studios think that we should pay to go see a crap fest lame movie in the theater for 9.99 and then purchase the movie for $30.00 now if the movie sucked and we all went to see it in theaters then why purchase it on dvd to begin with.

It basicly comes down to the movie itself if the movie sucks and people have the choice of making a illegal copy from a rented dvd or paying 30.00 for the dvd in the stores.

I think you would find more people would pirate before paying 30.00..


Now you want to here something funny on this note.

Security lacking at airports.

Ok so me and my family decided to go to california to go to disneyland on a flight back i noticed a lady with a dvd player and nearly 600 pirated dvd movies now i thought wait a minute shouldn't security checked her bag and yet they still let her keep her pirate movies wow talk about lack in judgment..

It just goes to show if you can get it cheaper then why pay full price..

39.7.2008 14:45

Originally posted by susieqbbb:
on a flight back i noticed a lady with a dvd player and nearly 600 pirated dvd movies now i thought wait a minute shouldn't security checked her bag and yet they still let her keep her pirate movies wow talk about lack in judgment..

It just goes to show if you can get it cheaper then why pay full price..
Well because maybe she had the originals back home, you can't really prove that they're all pirated, but if she had 600 that brings up questions how and where did she get them? Lol. I know but i have a huge collection of music CDs but i backup every single one when i purchase them so as to make sure that they don't get damaged and stuff.

49.7.2008 14:48

Copied at least 1 movie in six months? Can someone tell me which movie it was that Hollywood released that was worth copying?

59.7.2008 14:54

Only movies worth copying are from Pixar..and we get ONE decent film per year.

Even the Indiana Jones movie sucked because of Fat Lucas getting his grimy hands on the script.

69.7.2008 15:32

Here's a way to keep people from pirating DVDs, sell them for the price of a rental.

Let's assume that I rent a new release at BlockBuster. It's going to cost me about $5.00 plus tax and gas to drive to the store and back twice. It'll cost another $0.25 for a blank DVD. So it costs me about $6.00 to copy a rented DVD.

If I could just keep the DVD we'll need to add another $0.50 to cover the cost of the disc and the case. So I can safely say that $6.99 is a fair price for a DVD. Sell me a new release for $6.99 and I'll stop copying DVDs.

Now if you rent form Netflix........

79.7.2008 16:18

One third of residents? Nonsense! Maybe one third of households... Or, maybe they surveyed college students, or After Dawn members... I'm the only person in my family that even knows how to copy a DVD! I work for a small company (10 employees). I'm pretty sure I'm the only employee that knows how to copy a DVD. Young children and senior citizens are "residents" too... Not many of them know how to crack copy protection.

- A lot of people will not copy, because it's against the law and/or they consider it immoral.
- A lot of people don't have a computer, or don't have a computer with a DVD burner.
- A lot of people don't watch DVDs on a regular basis... They have no interest in copying DVDs.
- For a lot of people, it's not just worth the effort because they can afford to buy any movies they want.
- A lot of peole want the original artwork/labeling/packaging.

There are probably other reasons that some people don't copy, but that's all I can think of right now.

89.7.2008 16:59

Its called fair use and tis the conner stone of a fair and thriving consumer driven market!

99.7.2008 20:05

Originally posted by DVDdoug:
One third of residents? Nonsense! Maybe one third of households... Or, maybe they surveyed college students, or After Dawn members... I'm the only person in my family that even knows how to copy a DVD! I work for a small company (10 employees). I'm pretty sure I'm the only employee that knows how to copy a DVD. Young children and senior citizens are "residents" too... Not many of them know how to crack copy protection.

- A lot of people will not copy, because it's against the law and/or they consider it immoral.
- A lot of people don't have a computer, or don't have a computer with a DVD burner.
- A lot of people don't watch DVDs on a regular basis... They have no interest in copying DVDs.
- For a lot of people, it's not just worth the effort because they can afford to buy any movies they want.
- A lot of peole want the original artwork/labeling/packaging.

There are probably other reasons that some people don't copy, but that's all I can think of right now.
I absolutely agree. I have been doing this for several years and now moving on to blu-ray. I have been a proponent of copying all the while. I have tried to entice my friends and co-workers, just like a little devil on their shoulder, to copy discs. despite the ease with which the copying and burning can be done, despite the cheap or free software, people still see something mystifying about the process. I always hear that it would be too technical or they are afraid of having too many steps. I simply do not believe these stats!

1010.7.2008 8:39

Too many people fear technology. My mother still has 12:00 flashing on her VCR!

Hollywood puts out a lot of crap. Smart consumers wait for the DVD release to rent the movie, instead of taking a "gamble" with their $10-$25 (depending on ticket or DVD purchase.) If the movie is being viewed by 2 or more people, the savings between a trip to the theater and sitting on your couch at home is substantial.

I'm likely to purchase a film that I have seen and know is good. Typically that falls into the catalog title category, which are value priced at $10 and below, a price I'm willing to pay.

New releases are always $15, +/- $3 depending on the retailer, who are inviting you into their store, selling the disc at a loss (usually) so they can sell you other profit making crap. After that initial release week, when the ad has expired, the price jumps well over $20. It's a ripoff to both the retailers (who purchase the movies direct) and the consumers that go to the store to buy them. The retailers take up shelf space with overpriced stock that will collect dust, and the unsuspecting consumer faces a decision as to whether they should pay the ridiculous cost of "gotta have it."

Patience is a virtue. I've picked up some great deals over the last few months by waiting for catalog releases to go on sale. $7 for Batman Begins, $4 for First Blood, $5 of iRobot, $20 for the entire Rocky set, etc. If you notice the pattern, whenever a sequel is released in theaters (or big star has a new movie) you can nab the originals or similar films for a bargain. I also suspect Hollywood wants us to buy the cheap disc so we get riled up to pay full price for the new movie. That's great news for me, as I can add to my library at a fraction of the cost.

What if you can't wait a year or two to buy it on the cheap? If it's a supposed "blockbuster" or "must see event" I'll pay to see it in theaters. If it's a "chance", I'll go to the $2 ticket budget theater, or rent from Redbox or Netflix. We all know what I do if I can't watch it that night! ;-) Having good judgment and smart spending practices must make me a pirate...

1110.7.2008 9:44

I wonder how Macrovision gets their numbers ?
It's like asking a bunch of fans at a baseball game if they like baseball, kinda biased if I might add.

1210.7.2008 10:29

Quote:
It's like asking a bunch of fans at a baseball game if they like baseball, kinda biased if I might add.

It kinda seems that way...don't it?


1310.7.2008 12:32

Quote:
A few questions I would like to add to vurbal's that I would be curious to have answered by a poll:

What is a reasonable amount someone is willing to pay for a DVD?

Anywhere up to $10 for a DVD, and anywhere up to $15 for a bluray movie (because I understand that the production cost has a part in the price differential of DVD's)

Most college grads from 10 years ago probably know how to copy a DVD. I think that time period is when the fascination with digital copying began to explode. Music and software seemed to be first, and then movies followed as part of a natural progression. Ha, I remember when a bootleg copy of Flash 4 was passed on to me years ago on a CD. Now in my 30's, I've kept that fascination alive over the past 10 years, and passed it on to a few older than me and a few younger.

Or maybe my point of view is totally skewed because I went to a Engineering school, where everyone was an aspiring techie. We didn't play football, we hung around in the labs messing around with computer components and software - copying video games and music, etc... It just seemed like the norm and developed into its own culture. The sweetest gig you could get in my school was a TA in a computer lab that had a CD burner.

1410.7.2008 17:34

Quote:
Quote:
But do these results really show what Macrovision would like you to believe or are they really a sign that DVDs cost more than consumers are willing to pay?
That is a really good question. I would like to believe that it is a sign that DVD's cost more than the majority of consumers are willing to pay. There still are people willing to pay "New-Release" prices for DVDs.

A few questions I would like to add to vurbal's that I would be curious to have answered by a poll:

What is a reasonable amount someone is willing to pay for a DVD?

Would offering a lower price on DVDs convert enough "pirates" to offset the loss of profit due to the lower price?
For many hackers, "pirates", etc. money is absolutely no concern.

It's the thrill of "the game" - defeating protections, etc. and showing that you can "outsmart the system."

How much cheaper to DVDs have to get? They've really already bottomed out. If folks weren't buying them already, they never would. They're probably as cheap as they need to be right now. If that's still too expensive for some folks, then there are more than enough opportunities to buy even more cheaply used. It's not like they're in short supply or that there's little interest.

But again, there's still a large contingency that would pay no price as long as an opportunity exists to obtain it for free. And it's not so much about the money, as the ability to do it and the feeling of accomplishment: a "high" of sorts, if you will. I'm not making any value judgements, just commenting.

The existence of technology to crack, not the price behind it, is the thrill that leads to the pursuit. Not perceived "high prices."

1510.7.2008 17:43

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But do these results really show what Macrovision would like you to believe or are they really a sign that DVDs cost more than consumers are willing to pay?
That is a really good question. I would like to believe that it is a sign that DVD's cost more than the majority of consumers are willing to pay. There still are people willing to pay "New-Release" prices for DVDs.

A few questions I would like to add to vurbal's that I would be curious to have answered by a poll:

What is a reasonable amount someone is willing to pay for a DVD?

Would offering a lower price on DVDs convert enough "pirates" to offset the loss of profit due to the lower price?
For many hackers, "pirates", etc. money is absolutely no concern.

It's the thrill of "the game" - defeating protections, etc. and showing that you can "outsmart the system."

How much cheaper to DVDs have to get? They've really already bottomed out. If folks weren't buying them already, they never would. They're probably as cheap as they need to be right now. If that's still too expensive for some folks, then there are more than enough opportunities to buy even more cheaply used. It's not like they're in short supply or that there's little interest.

But again, there's still a large contingency that would pay no price as long as an opportunity exists to obtain it for free. And it's not so much about the money, as the ability to do it and the feeling of accomplishment: a "high" of sorts, if you will. I'm not making any value judgements, just commenting.

The existence of technology to crack, not the price behind it, is the thrill that leads to the pursuit. Not perceived "high prices."
I would not say that drop the price by 30% and sales would inscress to match it at least, there will always be those who do not buy into the retail game, but for the rest of consumers lowering the price means more people will buy it.

1611.7.2008 20:40
1bonehead
Inactive

Who did the pollsters poll ?

What did they ask , "hey do you pirate dvds ?"

Just a thought.


The BPI Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI.
The RIAA Soundexchange Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, EMI.
The IFPI Are: The same anti consumer lot as listed above!
The MPAA Are: SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER GROUP, DISNEY, PARAMOUNT, FOX.

1712.7.2008 12:25

What if they polled a nursing home?

"Do you dub DVDS?"

Results: Huh?

A whole lot depends on the so-called random choice of
those polled.

Bossie

1812.7.2008 13:40

@Vurbal

The poll could also show that 36%of US and 32% of UK are smart enough and own the equipment and thus able to backup DVDs instead of buying them at any price. LOL Blockbuster's rental price is now $5 here and not much less than a movie ticket. If the movie people would just make the DVD buyable near the same time the movie is released and at a matching movie ticket price for the region, then more would purchase, rather than wait for the Blockbuster release maybe 3-4 months later and copy it. They could release them in stores 2 weeks after opening. The $15-20 cost nowadays is like going to show and buying the popcorn, candy and the drink 6mo after the fact!

1912.7.2008 16:55

One third copying ????
Most forums that I have visited are loaded with messages on how to just copy a DVD to their hard drive. There are more asking how to remove the protection which is followed by "How do you fit a 7 gig video onto a 4 gig disk...??"

There may be a lot of wanna bes out there but I don't think it is really as much as Macrovision wants it to be. I would venture that Macrovision being in the anti-piracy business would like to report high figures so they can keep their business plan in operation.

Follow the money....

One also has to remember that Macrovision is involved with an industry that thinks nothing of ripping off their customers and like the mafia, one dares not mass with them. It is a one way street to these goobers...

2012.7.2008 18:54

They lie to inflate numbers, so the politicians make tougher laws. it's all BS. I actually quit Netflix and all rentals, because all the movies BLOW.

2112.7.2008 19:20

I understand piracy and all that, but record and cassette sales never suffered from too much copying!

Bottom line for me is this; I copied my records because they would get scratched, I copy my CDs and DVDs because they can get scratched.

Bust the people selling the pirated material, and let me backup my EXPENSIVE CD or DVD so the car player or the kids won't ruin them.

2212.7.2008 20:17

I have a simple comment.
How the flip does "Future source Consulting know how many DVDs are being copied ??
Do they use the "dart board method? Maybe they just ask their client Macrovision to tell them what statistics they should report?

It would be impossible for Future source Consulting to have a clue on the totally invalid statistics that it is producing ....for a fee. ??

To me, this is purely propaganda from Macrovision and the information in it does not deserve any creditability

1. Macrovision is a company that creates copy protection as a part of its revenue !!
2. Macrovision is a client of Future source Consulting Consulting and therefore pays them to produce this unsubstantiated propaganda.

Thanks,

Jon

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Jul 2008 @ 20:23

2312.7.2008 20:54

I take it, then, that roughly 1/3 of Macronazi's target demographic are going to end up on "The Worlds Dumbest Criminals"? I mean, you have got to be one dumb-ass Meat Sack (thanks, Mystique) to squeal on yourself.

It's all about GREED. People who copy DVDS do so with the conviction that the bastards who produce them have made enough money and they don't need mine.

We're not cows and we don't like being milked. So I say: MILK THEM THROUGH THE FENCE.

Of course I myself, being a law-biding citzen, upright and honorable, would never seriously consider breaking the law.

2412.7.2008 21:57

Why do DVD makers think we all want all the poor content they force upon us. They should release single disk version with Dolby and DTs sound, none of the useless deleted scenes. I personally don't want to wade through loads of trailers either before I watch the film, if you must include them, stick them on the menu so we can ignore them. we want to buy them at the right price, without the dross, if you have a longer version or better ending put in the film in the first place. Then people might just stop making copies that suit them. If folk want six versions of the film on several disks release them after, think of the planet one disk will do most people and the studios will save money.

2512.7.2008 23:57

Hollywood keeps saying that they are losing money because of pirates. I think most of the people here got it. I am not going waste that much money for a crappy movie DVD or theater. I think the consenus is $10. I think that is fair for a DVD. Just like when CD's became obselete when they started charging $18 and up. These people need to take economics again and review supply and demand if they want to sell more.

2613.7.2008 1:54

Originally posted by Mordaunt:
I take it, then, that roughly 1/3 of Macronazi's target demographic are going to end up on "The Worlds Dumbest Criminals"? I mean, you have got to be one dumb-ass Meat Sack (thanks, Mystique) to squeal on yourself.

Mordaunt,
It's all about GREED. People who copy DVDS do so with the conviction that the bastards who produce them have made enough money and they don't need mine.

We're not cows and we don't like being milked. So I say: MILK THEM THROUGH THE FENCE.

Of course I myself, being a law-biding citzen, upright and honorable, would never seriously consider breaking the law.
If you have never considered breaking the law or have any opinions and just happily do whatever you are told, I recommend a nation like North Korea or some place where you can be cut off from any input from source whatsoever. Your mind is made up for you.

Mordaunt, I am in awe that you know what everyone does with blank media. WOW !!
Let's think that maybe, maybe, you take other's opinions, especially those who have more power, money and influence than you and mimic their thoughts in thinking that makes you a good citizen ??
It is a darn good thing that in the 1700s, that people like Jefferson, Washington, Adams, etc, were dissidents in the original U.S. colonies didn't think that way, as they rebelled against the "laws of the lands". I guess Gandhi was nothing but a greedy person, like those others who created the U.S. I guess those who engaged in civil disobedience and worked to help end slavery as well as did not act actively to return a slave to "its owner" were greedy as well.

Being someone that has never, ever thought of breaking any law, means that you have memorized every single law and base all of your behaviors and thoughts around it. It also means that in the spirit of democracy, you would be a very poor citizen, as it is the citizens that are the ones who are supposed to create the laws and that our lawmakers are only civil servants, who have been honored by citizens to be trusted for a short time to create laws that are in the best interests of the citizens they swore to represent as well as uphold the Constitution. They are NOT supposed to represent Corporate interests or anyone's interests except for the individuals they represent. Remember that "We the people" stuff.

It is ironic that just today, I have been burning a great multi-media film that my son made of his older brother's graduation and the party afterwards. I am sending it out, in DVD format to several relatives and friends. He combines music, video and still photos together so creatively.
I possibly might be breaking the law by using some software to burning DVDs and distributing them, even though it is a DVD that was created by my son and is not under anyone's copyright ? It is possible the burning or backing up anything is against the law, I am not sure. I know that the "Fair Use" law that is in the books has laws that were created so that it is impossible for the "Fair Use" laws to be be upheld.

Mordaunt, you never jaywalked in your life ? Never drove faster than the speed limit. Never, ever video taped a TV show so you can see it later, without written permission to do so ? You never expressed your thoughts about unfair laws to anyone ?

My point is always think and understand where the sources come from. Remember democracy is NOT a spectator sport. The numbers from Futuresource Consultingare obviously bogus and there is an obvious conflict of interest.

For all I know, I might be breaking a law right now by publishing my thoughts ? I don't know. I also know that I don't know what the real numbers are, but neither does Macrovision or Futuresource Consulting.

There are things I DO know, but that is for another message.

Jon

2713.7.2008 2:37

Quote:
Originally posted by Mordaunt:
...Mordaunt, you never jaywalked in your life ? Never drove faster than the speed limit. Never, ever video taped a TV show so you can see it later, without written permission to do so ? You never expressed your thoughts about unfair laws to anyone ?
Jon
Jon, you make some interesting points, but a great deal of your posting responds to Mordaunt's last sentence. I could be wrong, but I took that last sentence of his as a "wink, wink" statement...
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jul 2008 @ 2:38

2813.7.2008 19:28

A lot of folks do like to copy movies, but I think we all know a few folks that run out and buy almost every new release DVD. I know folks that have all 5 versions of Blade Runner. Every time they come out with new versions of movies or box sets they have to have them. As a matter of fact I know folks that buy all the new DVDs and don't even watch many of them. Some of my friends DVD collections consist of quite q few new discs still in the origional packaging.

2914.7.2008 9:08

Originally posted by susieqbbb:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
on a flight back i noticed a lady with a dvd player and nearly 600 pirated dvd movies now i thought wait a minute shouldn't security checked her bag and yet they still let her keep her pirate movies wow talk about lack in judgment..

I laughed when I read this, anybody here knows damn right well what 600 dvd's or cd's would look like, I mean the case would have to be a pretty good size, I cannot see anybody carrying a suitcase with 600 cd's for viewing only, the whole statement is bullshit.

As far as copying, when I buy a cd or a dvd I learned a long time ago to make a backup, my kids ruined enough of my movies and music, so you damn right I make a back-up, and if that labels me as a pirate than so be it and I dont give two s&%ts who knows goverment, riaa etc., I dont care, to old to care, its a ridicoulis law, go after the real pirate that makes a thousand copies and sells them, leave me the hell alone.

Macrovision has to make some kind of statement, like other people stated here, if thier numbers would be to low they would be out of a job.

3014.7.2008 10:28

Remember that this study was fundedby Macrovision. Who else has so much to gain by having their security systems used. Wouldn't they benefit if all the studios depended on them to be the experts and have all the answers?

3117.7.2008 14:00

I wonder how much higher that number would be if every single disk wasn't loaded with so much 'crap' (protection... What ever happened ot the good old days when it was just CSS... In the past 3 years, there has been dozens of new protections released and each has been hacked, cracked, and broken just like the one before it. And back when it was primarily CSS the numbers were lower... Now that you need to have AnyDVD or DVD Fab to rip most movies, its become mainstreamed as its a quick easy solution to rip any movie...

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