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Secret ACTA Internet chapter leaked: Global DMCA and 'three strikes'

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 04 Nov 2009 22:29 User comments (163)

Secret ACTA Internet chapter leaked: Global DMCA and 'three strikes' The highly secretive Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, which has been drafted under non-disclosure agreements and given to different nations with watermarks in case they choose to "leak" it, has had parts of its Internet chapter leaked this week, and is already facing massive criticism from mostly everyone who has read its scary bylines.
Under the new ACTA, the United States and the world should be prepared for the following:

-ISPs as watchdogs: The ISPs will be forced to "proactively" police all user-contributed materials for copyrights. At that point, many of the world's most popular sites won't be able to exist as they do now, such as YouTube or Photobucket or Flickr which will be impossible to regulate given that thousands upon thousands of videos and pictures are uploaded every hour.

-Three Strikes: As in the UK and France, the "three strikes" piracy laws will be in effect, forcing ISPs to cut off multiple time offenders from the Internet after two warnings. If you are accused, you do not receive counsel or a trial.

-Worldwide DMCA: "Notice-and-takedown" letters must be adopted worldwide, requiring ISPs to take down any "infringing" material. There needs to be no evidence or trial, if the material gets flagged, it must be taken down.

-DRM: Full prohibitions on breaking DRM, no more "fair use." Archival presentation (backups) will be a thing of the past.

This is just what we know so far. I can't imagine it could get any worse though.

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163 user comments

14.11.2009 22:54

"This is just what we know so far. I can't imagine it could get any worse though."

I assume this is sarcasm. I wouldn't be suprised if they were working on software that must be installed on every computer that would scan for anything that might be copywrited in order to delete it...even if you owned it.

24.11.2009 23:13

Hmmm, this could be a good thing. Should all these measures actually go into effect, everyone will simply stop using the 'net; stop buying music CDs; stop buying DVDs; stop going to the movies. Then we'll see how the ISPs, the record companies, the riaa, the mpaa, et al deal with the total loss of the consumers they themselves have driven away.

( envisions these idiots crawling back to me, begging for my interest )

^_^ Ha, I can't wait.

34.11.2009 23:21

Quote:
-Worldwide DMCA: "Notice-and-takedown" letters must be adopted worldwide, requiring ISPs to take down any "infringing" material. There needs to be no evidence or trial, if the material gets flagged, it must be taken down.

Just how many amendments does that break?

Actually, just how many does it in a WHOLE does it break?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Nov 2009 @ 23:22

44.11.2009 23:23

Its only a matter of time before the internet becomes derilict and a new seperate but similar system takes its place if this S*** keeps up. Some government needs to stand upto these ass hats and tell them that the internet is NOT something they are allowed to control.

54.11.2009 23:51

This is disgusting. Are there people actually for this?

65.11.2009 0:50

This is the most disgusting thing I have ever read. Ever.

*bleep* everything if this is put in place.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Nov 2009 @ 8:09

75.11.2009 3:11

Originally posted by KillerBug:
"This is just what we know so far. I can't imagine it could get any worse though."

I assume this is sarcasm. I wouldn't be suprised if they were working on software that must be installed on every computer that would scan for anything that might be copywrited in order to delete it...even if you owned it.
Instead of having personal hard drives, everything will be "streamed", after your authenticate yourself with your right hand of course.

Guess I will have to go live in some bloody cave somewhere. Preferably where its warm.

85.11.2009 3:32

Originally posted by canuckerz:
Its only a matter of time before the internet becomes derilict and a new seperate but similar system takes its place if this S*** keeps up. Some government needs to stand upto these ass hats and tell them that the internet is NOT something they are allowed to control.
This is the most likely outcome. A new internet. There are plenty of us that will simply not stand for this shit.

95.11.2009 3:53

Sieg Heil!

105.11.2009 4:40

If all this stuff goes through, I will not be able to justify using the intenet anymore. The DMCA has already given me reason to disconnect my cable tv...now these Nazi-Wannabe bastards are trying to make me turn off the internet. If this goes down, there will be nothing to keep me from moving to the woods with a pile of machine guns and the goggles from the new Modern Warefare.

Anyone else think that uncle sam is starting to look like an evil clown from a rob zombie movie?

115.11.2009 5:48

Same as the other comments. This is NOT the Internet I imagined would happen or wanted.

125.11.2009 6:54

God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.

135.11.2009 7:40

Originally posted by xnmalletx:
God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.
Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.

145.11.2009 8:07

Let it happen. I won't need that much bandwidth anymore, so I'll drop my cable level a tier. Internet would be just for random info and email for me. Whatever.

My money spreads around to a lot of different places, regardless of what I download. Preventing me from downloading doesn't give me more money to spend.

155.11.2009 8:10

I literally just found out about it on another site and was going to post it in the Mod lounge for the Admins. Bad isn't the word.

Senate Bill Would Give President Obama Authority to Pull the Plug on Your Internet

We don't do politics here, this is linked to the declaration of a Swine Flu 'national emergency'.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Nov 2009 @ 8:14



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165.11.2009 8:14

Quote:
Originally posted by xnmalletx:
God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.
Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.
I'm not a political person, but the difference between both is one is pro-government control and the other is pro-greed. Pick your poison.

175.11.2009 8:30

Quote:
forcing ISPs to cut off multiple time offenders from the Internet after two warnings. If you are accused, you do not receive counsel or a trial.
How is that even possible... no bueno!

185.11.2009 8:53

I am always drawn back to my days in school whe I read the book 1984.

Lets just re-release it and call it 2010 or Obama's world.

This is completely unacceptable. The government owns the auto industry and now it wants to control the virtual world. I knew we were in for it when O was elected for office.

I say we completely replace our current legislation with actual people, people who will understand, listen and actually do what we the people who elected them in the first place want done. Isn't that the whole purpose of government by the people for the people?

195.11.2009 9:10

This has to be a joke. Every thing on this list have been proven to fail.

ISP's were never set up to be police so that whole "proactively" thing is hilarious. It'd be like hiring a new security guard at a mall and telling him he's now responsible for everything that has EVER been stolen.

3 strikes would be impossible to enforce world wide. Are we saying now China could make 3 claims on anybody they damn well please? Obama in prison for 3 unsubstantiated claims of downloading Beegees songs? To sweet.

Again with the DMCA, how the frak do they plan on enforcing that?? I'd like to see Pepsi get a C&D from some Malaysian company saying they own the rights to both the logo and name.

And DRM has been proven to not work. Done.

205.11.2009 9:25
Daniel_1
Inactive

You are just finding out about this now???? This bill was introduced by a DEMOCRAT (sorry empulse)Sen Rockerfeller (who's family has more money then God) and one RINO Sen Olympia Snow (who votes with Democrats 98% of the time) So while a few of you may not like it, it is the DEMOCRATS that are trying to start this. With everything I read about the democrat I wonder just how someone can think it is ok for the US Government to control every aspect of your life from cradle to grave.

You can read the whole bill here
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s773/show

It has been read twice and referred to a committee and that is just Senate speak for it being sent to die there as it will never make it onto the committee's agenda to be given a hearing nor will it be allowed to come out from the committee for a full vote as the twit Rockerfeller was told in no uncertain terms that IF this was brought to the floor he would get exactly two votes, his and Snows; and not to be counting on Snows. As well as any damages done because of this bill to a citizen would place him in the rare position of being able to be sued by any citizen who was damaged by same, AND he would not receive any attorneys provided by the US Government, only provided by his wallet. If you call his office, they will tell you that they want nothing to do with this bill as he has received a load of shit from people demanding to know WTF he is doing/thinking!

If you want to contact him, here is his address and webpage

http://rockefeller.senate.gov/

Address:
531 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-6472
Fax: 202-224-7665

let the games begin!

215.11.2009 9:27

"This is just what we know so far. I can't imagine it could get any worse though." Well they might start sending pirates to death camps. Can't have the comapnies losing money now a days

225.11.2009 9:36

Al Queda getting White House Internet Connection cut off coz they are downloading Osama videos :D

p.s.

Whoops I bet that sentence is setting off "Echelon" alarm bells all over the place

p.p.s.
Just to make sure...
Barrack
nuclear
anthrax

235.11.2009 10:00

Originally posted by canuckerz:
Its only a matter of time before the internet becomes derilict and a new seperate but similar system takes its place if this S*** keeps up. Some government needs to stand upto these ass hats and tell them that the internet is NOT something they are allowed to control.
Sorry man, the governments will never stand up to these @$$hats. They're either significantly, or completely run by them. The election system is a psychology trick that keeps the economic slaves from revolting and realizing that we're just as enslaved today as blacks were in southern american states in the early 1800's.

The plain fact of the matter is, while it sounds like "crazy conspiracy theory", the super-class made up of uber billionaires and trillionaires call most of the shots in the world, and are so good at the game we don't even see that often times entire countries are merely pawns.

245.11.2009 10:04

Originally posted by Morreale:
This is disgusting. Are there people actually for this?
Yes, the media and all the politicians in their pockets. You are to be crushed! You really need to vote out every incumbant you can. They are your enemy! Then not buy any media. See how long their money holds up.

255.11.2009 10:32

It is nice when ISP's, the MPAA, and the RIAA can write their own legislation. Assholes! Being kicked off of your internet provider without a right to defend yourself is not Freedom. We need Net Neutrality and the FCC to step in.

265.11.2009 10:34

Quote:
Originally posted by Morreale:
This is disgusting. Are there people actually for this?
Yes, the media and all the politicians in their pockets. You are to be crushed! You really need to vote out every incumbant you can. They are your enemy! Then not buy any media. See how long their money holds up.
I agree, get rid of them all. R or D they're the same thing, and they're all our enemy.

Unfortunately the seeds of destruction have already started to sprout, and there's no round-up for this mess. (Un)Fortunately our government and our economy are so large and entwined with the world, the time from brain death to the body being cold and recognized as dead are far separated. The USD is dead as the world reserve currency. Our debt load and action being taken by Herr Obama (and taken by Herr Bush) and the rest of the world have guaranteed that.

This ends one of two ways. The USA becomes a subservient state to the UN or whatever global governing organization we settle on using the UN as the host body. Or we have a second American Revolution, and we begin to claw our way out of this grave. Either way the way of life we knew for the past few decades is gone.

275.11.2009 10:35
mikecUSA
Inactive

Look. These billionaires you chastise make their money off of who? Us. So enslaving us is not their goal. If we become slaves they see no net gain whatsoever and the world, the place they like to "play" in, would become this dark dreary place lacking fun and excitement.

They do not wish to see this world of thrills an dspills come to an end any more than we do.

So get some perspective. Yes the DMCA and all it's frankenstein progeny are wrong-headed ideas, but they are not evil, just dangerous and annoying.

An entreprenurial spirit creating an alternate internet, now that is clever and interesting. A sort of "co-op" type internet, funded by users, perhaps using some telephone line system for transmission.

Or a powerline type system. Anything more would cost way to much, and the last thing we need is more wireless stuff clogging up the electrical air we pass through minute by minute.

The new DMCA will not fly. It makes no sense whatsoever and it would be very hard to enforce for ISp's and even harder for Governments to monitor. It's a rediculous idea.

285.11.2009 10:38

Originally posted by Mrwirez:
It is nice when ISP's, the MPAA, and the RIAA can write their own legislation. Assholes! Being kicked off of your internet provider without a right to defend yourself is not Freedom. We need Net Neutrality and the FCC to step in.
"Net Neutrality" and the FCC to step in are the LAST thing we need. That will kill the internet, cause a tiered system, and end peering between ISPS. What we need are for the MPAA and RIAA to be shut down and all laws they've influenced struck from the books.

Do you really think the ISPs want to have to pay to peer with eachother, pay to install and implement all those required legislations into their networks, and want to lose paying customers because they're forced to act as cyber-cops?

295.11.2009 10:38

Originally posted by rtlinux:
I am always drawn back to my days in school whe I read the book 1984.

Lets just re-release it and call it 2010 or Obama's world.

This is completely unacceptable. The government owns the auto industry and now it wants to control the virtual world. I knew we were in for it when O was elected for office.

I say we completely replace our current legislation with actual people, people who will understand, listen and actually do what we the people who elected them in the first place want done. Isn't that the whole purpose of government by the people for the people?
This has nothing to do with Obama. Get your head out of your ass.

305.11.2009 10:39

Originally posted by mikecUSA:
Look. These billionaires you chastise make their money off of who? Us. So enslaving us is not their goal. If we become slaves they see no net gain whatsoever
With all due respect you need to do some research. They don't need any more wealth, they have more trillions than they know what to do with. I won't say any more, we don't allow politics here. Please do some research.

Mrwirez - Without me being political or commenting on your reply i say the same to you.

edit- This is Andre's article so it's up to him what flies in here, even my comments. All i can say is that we don't do politics here.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Nov 2009 @ 10:46



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315.11.2009 10:49

Originally posted by mikecUSA:
Look. These billionaires you chastise make their money off of who? Us. So enslaving us is not their goal. If we become slaves they see no net gain whatsoever and the world, the place they like to "play" in, would become this dark dreary place lacking fun and excitement.
I do not chastise the billionaires, I have nothing wrong with the rich. I'm not sure about you, but I've never sold services to, or been employed by a homeless man. Frankly, I want more people to have more money, 'cos then they can afford to pay me more for my services.
I said the super-class who are not, and cannot be affected by any individual entity in a lower class. Perhaps you forgot, but Egyptian kings were plenty rich with the majority of the population being slaves. There are a very limited number in the super-class, and they strive for only more power and control.

Originally posted by mikecUSA:
Or a powerline type system. Anything more would cost way to much, and the last thing we need is more wireless stuff clogging up the electrical air we pass through minute by minute.

That's what the first internet was. That's how it became so decentralized and successful. Those in power fear that though because an educated populace is a strong populace that is difficult to enslave.

Originally posted by mikecUSA:
The new DMCA will not fly. It makes no sense whatsoever and it would be very hard to enforce for ISp's and even harder for Governments to monitor. It's a rediculous idea.
This isn't an American DMCA, this is a GLOBAL one. And our government is doing their d@mndest to to turn American sovereignty over to a global governing agency. Both legislative and economical.

325.11.2009 10:53

C'm on guys and girls...This is not the United Nations, "the World Government", Obama, FOX News, Democrats vs. Republicans... This was initiated by a bunch of middle aged white people running the MPAA, RIAA, and other 'panicky desperate' organizations, desperate and panicked because they are losing their turf (making insane amounts of money off artists' back with old technologies like CDs, DVDs and other "Jewel Box Items"). Even if they pass this stupendously stupid mechanism in favor of their greedy Status Quo, they will lose. Half the world is downloading 'illegaly' because it MAKES SENSE. Let them try to reverse that trend. Not a chance. If they cut off my internet, they cut their own throats. There were Bootleg vinyl albums, then came Napster, then came torrent files, the next step will be even more dramatic. Do not fear. It is going to be interesting.

335.11.2009 10:59

siber - Please see my first reply in this article, the ACTA thing is part of something else.




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345.11.2009 11:01

Originally posted by siber:
C'm on guys and girls...This is not the United Nations, "the World Government", Obama, FOX News, Democrats vs. Republicans... This was initiated by a bunch of middle aged white people running the MPAA, RIAA, and other 'panicky desperate' organizations, desperate and panicked because they are losing their turf (making insane amounts of money off artists' back with old technologies like CDs, DVDs and other "Jewel Box Items"). Even if they pass this stupendously stupid mechanism in favor of their greedy Status Quo, they will lose. Half the world is downloading 'illegaly' because it MAKES SENSE. Let them try to reverse that trend. Not a chance. If they cut off my internet, they cut their own throats. There were Bootleg vinyl albums, then came Napster, then came torrent files, the next step will be even more dramatic. Do not fear. It is going to be interesting.
You are right about that. This is an information war. And this is just one more battle within that war. Politicians will back this because it gives them power to shut down speech they don't like. And while possibly promoted by certain powers behind the scenes, but those specific parts of the legislation have been written by greedy morons in the industry who want to maintain a monopoly through legislation and can not see past their nose to another way to make money.

355.11.2009 11:02

Quote:
edit- This is Andre's article so it's up to him what flies in here, even my comments. All i can say is that we don't do politics here.
Free reign here as long as it is within reason. I have many thoughts on this bill but most have already been stated. I also do not think this passes in this form. Many ISPs want nothing to do with cutting pirates off, but then there are the clowns like AT&T and Comcast...

365.11.2009 11:19

Originally posted by DVDBack23:
Quote:
edit- This is Andre's article so it's up to him what flies in here, even my comments. All i can say is that we don't do politics here.
Free reign here as long as it is within reason. I have many thoughts on this bill but most have already been stated. I also do not think this passes in this form. Many ISPs want nothing to do with cutting pirates off, but then there are the clowns like AT&T and Comcast...
Ontop of that it means they would have to increase their infrastructure dramatically to be able to police this while at the same time kicking off their subscribers. Its impossible fir them to maintain a business that way the only outcome is bankruptcy.

And there's no way that these ass hats haven't considered that which makes me wounder what their real goal is.

375.11.2009 11:55

Originally posted by canuckerz:
Ontop of that it means they would have to increase their infrastructure dramatically to be able to police this while at the same time kicking off their subscribers. Its impossible fir them to maintain a business that way the only outcome is bankruptcy.

And there's no way that these ass hats haven't considered that which makes me wounder what their real goal is.
If they can bail out the banks and auto industry, they can bail out the ISP's who will be following their marching orders. ISP Stimulus, The Information Freedom Stimulus, whatever they want to call it, will be following this bill if it is passed. Of course, just like any other stimulus, we'll be footing the bill for the next couple of generations. Paying for a government spanking. Paying for our our ball and chain.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Nov 2009 @ 11:56

385.11.2009 12:39

This is just a part of the agenda of the new world order who want to impose a socialist state like the one from Hitler, the corporations (mostly the bankers) want absolute power, this is why they promoted Obama , he is the most socialist of all, we have to stop them .

395.11.2009 12:48

What do you expect?

We're dealing with the sort of people who think the net really ought to be nothing more than another pushy glorified retail outlet direct in your home.

Notions of community and sharing are anethma to that sort.
They don't care that sharers actually spend more money on legitimate retail goods, all they see are the 'try before buys' (especially those items we try and don't want) sharers get and they have convinced themselves each and every one would otherwise be a sale for maximising their profit margins.

If they get their way I will step back and go for 0.5mb broadband.
Anything more will be pointless.

Watching them wriggle over copyright and attempting to monitise everything on it is simply one over-extended tragic farce.

405.11.2009 13:23

Bass the buck to the larger group so you don't have to work for your money. Ah modern government aint it grand....

415.11.2009 13:40

if they actually think that will work they are deluding themselves. It sounds retarded to me because what are they doing then, looking at everyone 24/7 to see ''oh this person just uploaded copyrighted kiddie porn [LOL] to rapidshare!" lets flag him! like what? what kind of staff would this take to monitor everone's use of the internet...not even the most powerfull machines could monitor your internet completely. if this is what they are meaning, its a big phat joke. plus there is always encryption and port tunnels, proxys the list goes on.good luck new world order, y0u can suck my cack. also the only way they can achieve this would be to throw everone in jail and make it a crime to 0wn a puter.

425.11.2009 13:58

On the one hand this kind of thread makes me feel better, on the other hand I cannot relate to statements like "This is just a part of the agenda of the new world order who want to impose a socialist state like the one from Hitler, the corporations (mostly the bankers) want absolute power, this is why they promoted Obama , he is the most socialist of all, we have to stop them".

That just sounds so stupid to me. Rebel777 and others hopefully are in Kindergarten and will eventually grow up. We have to be optimistic, it beats crying.

435.11.2009 14:01

You're entitled to your opinion but this 40 year old doesn't need to do much growing up. Research is the name of the game here..

Originally posted by siber:
We have to be optimistic, it beats crying.
Indeed. Optimisim doesn't cancel out or replace factual research however, the two things are not mutually exclusive.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Nov 2009 @ 14:03



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445.11.2009 14:09

creaky, I was only referring to being optimistic about people in Kindergarten eventually growing up, being able to have rational and informed thoughts and being able to express those in a language understood by users of this forum.

455.11.2009 14:24

I was going to put some long lengthy statement here but i deleted it all in short for some of my idea's.

Governments have their way, end up controling all aspects of your life as we know it will be like: Equilibrium

swine flu go get your vaccine other wise you you may parish. sure that might be true but in a dream i recently just had. everyone ran out and got that damn N1H1 vaccine. they thought it saved trillions, but a few months into my dream and Boom Head Shot! shit turned into: I am Legend.

Sure you can vote to help fight for your rights, but this is the last unregulated ways for people to discuss their views and opinions, take that away and what do we have. nothing other hand written letters / smoke signals. so i think we need a few damn right good people handle shop. cause they are trashing our rights, Trashing our rights. hack the planet, HACK THE PLANET!! lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glsFJPbSsPw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvwK-3cQ6gE

465.11.2009 14:31

Originally posted by empulse:
Originally posted by xnmalletx:
God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.
Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.
No it is not both. It is the Democrats and the RINO's. The rino's are just as bad. Where is the true conservative values to stop them from spending?


475.11.2009 14:39

Originally posted by xnmalletx:
Originally posted by empulse:
Originally posted by xnmalletx:
God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.
Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.
No it is not both. It is the Democrats and the RINO's. The rino's are just as bad. Where is the true conservative values to stop them from spending?
The 2 main parties only care about themselfs and what they can get from society, japan booted out their main 2 parties by choosing a 3rd party, we need to do the same at the very least they will have to work harder to keep things in status quo mode.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

485.11.2009 14:43

Originally posted by elitepunk:
if they actually think that will work they are deluding themselves. It sounds retarded to me because what are they doing then, looking at everyone 24/7 to see ''oh this person just uploaded copyrighted kiddie porn [LOL] to rapidshare!" lets flag him! like what? what kind of staff would this take to monitor everone's use of the internet...not even the most powerfull machines could monitor your internet completely. if this is what they are meaning, its a big phat joke. plus there is always encryption and port tunnels, proxys the list goes on.good luck new world order, y0u can suck my cack. also the only way they can achieve this would be to throw everone in jail and make it a crime to 0wn a puter.
In all practical sense, it can't be implemented full scale. But all it takes is a handful of hard examples to incite fear.

495.11.2009 15:07

''does fear rule egypt, or do i?''-the ten commandments lol don't ask me why i thought of that.

you know what i love about yahoo.ca polls? first it was [ a couple weeks ago]...will you....
A. GET THE FLU SHOT
B. GET NO SHOTS WATSOEVA [no duh]
C. GET BOTH THE H1N1 SHOT AND THE REGULAR FLU SHOT
D. JOIN A MILITA [lol]

But now we get these unanswerable ones like for example...

Should this NHL team get the shot first?...
A. YES THEY ARE HIGH RISK
B. NO, THEY SHOULD STAND IN LINE LIKE THE REST OF US

SIGH...looks like the fear mongering and propaganda worked, and got the sheep out from their dens, or at least up here in canada, home of the post apocalyptic wondering zombie i am legend freaks [or soon to be] and gues what the shots contain mercury, i'll kill you before you stab me with that poison. i promise.

505.11.2009 16:08

What planet did I land on? Are some of us really having this discussion about Flu Shots? What are people smoking in America? Or are these symptoms of rabies?

515.11.2009 16:12

lol at the politicians and other organizations(nwo pushers) being on the losing side. their fate has been written a long time ago.

525.11.2009 16:16

Well Guys, This three strikes thing is ALREADY here. I am on MediaCom Cable Internet and about three months ago they cut me off for three days PUNITIVELY because according to them, a person on my cable hook-up had downloaded a pirated copy of a recent theatrical release movie. They claim to have sent me a warning six months ago when another download 1st offense happened with another movie download from my connection (I have a wireless modem and two hardlines and a laptop connected most of the time. I use wep2 protection.. This prompted them to cut off my cable for 3 days and they stated "ANY OTHER VIOLATION WILL RESULT IN MY BEING PERMANENTLY CUT OFF". IS THIS NOT THREE STRIKES?? I called the MediaCom second tier technician to complain when they initially cut me off and they faxed me a form that basically was an admission by me that I had committed a violation and concluded with a promisary signature that if another violation occures then I would be permanently cut off WITHOUT THE ABILITY TO APPEAL. MediaCom tech stated that if they dont cut me off then they face million dollar fines for allowing illegal downloads. I of course was forced to agree to this as I rely on my high speed connection and my only other option was to have ATT phone install a land line so I could go on phone modem. I should also add that MediaCom is my cable TV service, Phone service and internet provider. SUX eh. got me over the proverbial barrell since there is NO OTHER SERVICE AVAILABLE here. So as you can see THREE STRIKES IS HERE, at least on MediaCom.

535.11.2009 17:52

Quote:
Originally posted by empulse:
Originally posted by xnmalletx:
God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.
Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.
No it is not both. It is the Democrats and the RINO's. The rino's are just as bad. Where is the true conservative values to stop them from spending?
Correct me if I'm wrong but with W and repubs running the show, this was a non-issue. Obama gets in, first thing he did was "freeze" medicare COLA's for the next 2 years, last year needy folks got 4.8%. now he is sticking his nose in our internet rights. Is that what he referred to as "change"? He's busy ruining the internet while Iran builds nukes. He's nothing more than a puppet, has practically no experience and was only elected because he was a novelty, certainly not on his record, and now all of you that voted for him are forcing the rest of us to pay the price and dance to his tune. Doesn't he have anything better to do (like run a country) than mess with our rights?? I wonder who is really calling the shots. He's a joke, unfortunately the jokes on us. 4 and out.
I agree with DVDBack23 the ISP's are on our side and will fight this as hard or harder than "the people". This will drag on and hopefully something meaningful will happen and it will be put on the back burner.

545.11.2009 18:27
pspbarry
Inactive

lets say the big business men were to compensate the IPS for every account lost, soon we would have to obay the rule or get kicked off line! its a means to an end.........dark days are coming as i said last week when the rule came out for the uk, a lot of these comments to me seem to go to deep, anger without reason, the fact is the music, game and film industry are losing money BIG TIME and are crying all over the government to sort this out, its been coming for a long time this.

555.11.2009 18:29

This discussion has degenerated into a silly argument about Bush vs Obama, Republicans vs. Democrats in the US. Very tiresome and fruitless. It is supposed to be about ACTA, a worldwide plan to limit internet access to a large number of us based on our download choices.

So Obama has no track record, you feel W.Bush had one? Republicans are champions of a totally free internet while signing into law the Patriot Act, restricting the rights of all US Citizens? This is so old by now...Americans, AfterDawn is an international website NOT based in the US and most members have long lost interest in hystrionic babble about Republicans or Democrats.

565.11.2009 19:27

Originally posted by siber:
This discussion has degenerated into a silly argument about Bush vs Obama, Republicans vs. Democrats in the US. Very tiresome and fruitless. It is supposed to be about ACTA, a worldwide plan to limit internet access to a large number of us based on our download choices.
So Obama has no track record, you feel W.Bush had one? Republicans are champions of a totally free internet while signing into law the Patriot Act, restricting the rights of all US Citizens? This is so old by now...Americans, AfterDawn is an international website NOT based in the US and most members have long lost interest in hystrionic babble about Republicans or Democrats.
"creaky, I was only referring to being optimistic about people in Kindergarten eventually growing up, being able to have rational and informed thoughts and being able to express those in a language understood by users of this forum."
Yeah, like you for example. You can get up off your knees now.
Afterdawn isn't US-based, I'm willing to wager most members are.
Sounds like you have a problem with US. Have a chat with your grandpap, ask him what he thinks about USA.
Obama is a puppet. Bushh left the internet alone, the patriot act has no meaning on any US citizen unless they have something to hide. No terrorism since W. cleaned things up. BYW no such 3-strike laws exist here. We are not restricted in any way, and doubt it ever happens because politicos want to ride the gravy train.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Nov 2009 @ 20:25

575.11.2009 19:33

WHOA, hold on now, THREE STRIKES does exist here in the States, read my earlier post before saying it wont happen here, IT ALREADY HAS!

585.11.2009 19:41

I think we should demolish the whole Left wing right wing BS. the only choice we really have is do we want to get it up the pooper by the left or by the right.

if corporations really want to run America, i say let them they wont last 5 years.

and as i always say

we the people will be forced to Fight for everything that is America, once again. we killed are brothers in arms once whats to say we wont do it again.

there are about 380,000 active service personnel. there are 3 million civilians with the same capacity as the US militia. who do they think will win.

at any rate this is nothing new, ISPs have had the ability to Monitor all traffic since the 1990's. the only difference is the Government had to give the Ok.

595.11.2009 19:45

Originally posted by jimmurray:
WHOA, hold on now, THREE STRIKES does exist here in the States, read my earlier post before saying it wont happen here, IT ALREADY HAS!
I'll be honest bro, I have never heard of your ISP. Where do they serve?

605.11.2009 20:01

Originally posted by jimmurray:
WHOA, hold on now, THREE STRIKES does exist here in the States, read my earlier post before saying it wont happen here, IT ALREADY HAS!
Then it's time for you to change ISP's. Thats THEIR policy, not the law. Just like satellite limits you to d/l only so many gigs per month, thats THEIR call, not the law. If you sign on, you're bound to THEIR rules. Read their policy before signing on. Big difference.
No such thing with my ISP and I expect them to put up a big fight against it, already have read where they are against it for reasons described above.
mcm

615.11.2009 20:19

its ironic that google Ad shows Obama & ammo on this page.

if Obama doesn't like my Ammo that has enough lead to poison a Rhino then we have a problem, so what if it breaks the Geneva Convention.

625.11.2009 23:20

Like I said, Only other option I have is Satellite I guess, since MediaCom is THE ONLY game in town. We live in a very rural county and up to about 20 years ago we got two tv channels (fuzzy ones) and if you wanted to pay for the line run and pole installation you got telephone. When cell service first came in I had a bag phone (remember those?) Now we have the luxury of a cable co. that offers the world. For my combined services I pay around $200. mo. I just can't afford to pay for ATT phone (only service they offer here) but I guess they have a version of satellite, but even still I would need to do better than dial-up. So as you can see they have me by the short hairs. I should add that when I signed on to the internet package there was no clause about movie piracy or anything similar, this came about sometime after I entered the contract w them. Since I am a disabled Nam vet I cant afford the legal battle to test their policy (unless it becomes absolutely necessary)So there is a three strike law that they control (perhaps LAW is the wrong descriptive) and I am forced to abide by it as long as I want the internet at any reasonable speed.

635.11.2009 23:27

I should add, our County is Lake County California. We are about 2 1/2 hours out of San Francisco and the same from Sacramento. We are in a valley surrounded by inactive volcano (ever heard of the Steam Wells? harvest steam for electricity around here) Anyway thats why we have such sh#$$% services here. Am planning a move North to Eureka probably next year and I will download as many movies as I can just to see if they will cut me off before I go.... LOL

646.11.2009 0:07

I say we stop using ISP's and just form ourselves into a GIANT LAN =)

656.11.2009 2:08
lubricant
Inactive

Originally posted by engage16:
I say we stop using ISP's and just form ourselves into a GIANT LAN =)
Haha yeah me and my buddy were just talking about that. i was saying (local jurisdiction applies of course) that the FCC prolly wouldnt like it too much. :D

666.11.2009 5:30

mcmenace, it is obviously always futile to try to convince anybody to change their opinion, especially when it involves politics on the internet. I, therefore realize this entry is mostly an exercise in keeping my English current.

But I always do hope the arguments remain civilized. I will consider getting off my knees, as you suggest. Whatever that recommendation represents, I hope it wasn't intended to offend.

My grandfather was extremely grateful for your grandfather sacrificing himself on the battlefields of Europe in WW2. He was there, wasn't he? On the other hand I don't think he'd care much about US Politics today.
He would wonder why people in the American media are always yelling and screaming, about all the hostility and bullying. It won't get you anywhere. In a world of 7 billion people, 300 million Americans may have some difficulties with that type of behavior. Even your grandfather would have his doubts.

676.11.2009 7:39

The persons that think monitoring can't be done need a sanity check.

It is being done as we speek and I assume this is world wide. I stopped P2P almost 6 months ago but continue to use Peerguardian. A am still being pinged when I surf the web. Maybe that is because they never got in but I don't think so. I am also in a country where that will not help and is probably illegal. I suspect this is common through out the world. If the media spent billions of dollars on bribes, spending a billion on monitoring is reasonable. You can do a great deal with a billion dollars. I bet they have a bounty for new IP addresses. Companies build their own systems and techniques to hunt you down.

686.11.2009 8:21
lubricant
Inactive

Originally posted by Mez:
The persons that think monitoring can't be done need a sanity check.
aww, why you gotta be like that? you sound defeated. while i agree with that statement it is negative.

[Quote]I bet they have a bounty for new IP addresses. Companies build their own systems and techniques to hunt you down.

well, pleez believe that non-corporate entities have ways to evade the hunt.

696.11.2009 10:54

Quote:
Originally posted by Mez:
The persons that think monitoring can't be done need a sanity check.
aww, why you gotta be like that? you sound defeated. while i agree with that statement it is negative.

[Quote]I bet they have a bounty for new IP addresses. Companies build their own systems and techniques to hunt you down.

well, pleez believe that non-corporate entities have ways to evade the hunt.
Defeated, no I am like Custer at the last stand thinking I can take them.

There are ways to evade but non really practical. They do not track something like a news group using SSL but they monitor the down loads of the info files. So they have a real good idea what you are doing.

I think you are the ostrich with his head in the sand. The media must have spent billions of dollars on this but they see it as a coupe de grass. It probably is not but they are making governments responsible for the monitoring. That is VERY smart on their part. They spend billions to get hundreds of billions of service. Why do you think YOU have a chance unless you have a few billion to spend fighting them? The only thing you can do is boycott the media. Do not give them any money to do evil. The politicians will probably get canned anyway. The way the world is going any elected official should be worried.

706.11.2009 11:21

Originally posted by siber:
mcmenace, it is obviously always futile to try to convince anybody to change their opinion, especially when it involves politics on the internet. I, therefore realize this entry is mostly an exercise in keeping my English current.

But I always do hope the arguments remain civilized. I will consider getting off my knees, as you suggest. Whatever that recommendation represents, I hope it wasn't intended to offend.

My grandfather was extremely grateful for your grandfather sacrificing himself on the battlefields of Europe in WW2. He was there, wasn't he? On the other hand I don't think he'd care much about US Politics today.
He would wonder why people in the American media are always yelling and screaming, about all the hostility and bullying. It won't get you anywhere. In a world of 7 billion people, 300 million Americans may have some difficulties with that type of behavior. Even your grandfather would have his doubts.
Your'e right about opinions, they are like a-holes, everybody has one. Thanks for the comment on my uncle (yes, my dad's brother) sacrificing himself in the name of freedom. Again, you hit the nail on the head when his generation fought for freedom, not for the pocket-lining jokers calling themselves politicians that attend drunken party's every night and are completely out of touch with reality anyway, such as it is.
The only way I see it is to vote them out of office, of course that doesn't guarentee the nextgen won't do the same, even if enough got booted that it hit home.
What's wrong with a referendum?? They are supposed to represent the people, let the people speak on an issue as important as this. Won't happen.

716.11.2009 12:05

The most amazing election I ever saw was when we eliminated the 14 crooks in our local office. The only incumbent to survive was the only honest one. We voted in 14 bigger crooks. They are waiting in line to rape the public. The only way we can fix it is to start burning them to the stake! If we burned the worst 100 the rest would fall in line.

I am afraid something like that will happen in the next decade.

726.11.2009 12:14

I'm very grateful to your uncle. The war was before my time but I do recognize Americans of WW2 did fight and sacrifice for Europe's freedom. That does not mean America today should expect the same gratitude to last forever. I'm sure you've long forgotten about Lafayette - a Frenchman - helping the US in its Independence War against the British. With good reason.. We all have to prove ourselves over and over. We cannot live off the glory of our ancesters.

ACTA was defeated in the European Parlament last night. At least in Europe "it ain't gonna happen".

736.11.2009 12:44
Daniel_1
Inactive

Um...just HOW has it come to Democrats v Republicans when if you go to the links I provided in my first reply, it clearly shows the author of this bill is a DEMOCRAT. Therefor Republicans are not even in this fight so it is only a fight against an elitist rich democrat bastard that thinks he knows whats better for you then you do.


Anyone trying to make it anything more then this is just a trouble maker.

746.11.2009 12:57

Daniel_1 :"A bill to ensure the continued free flow of commerce within the United States and with its global trading partners through secure cyber communications, to provide for the continued development and exploitation of the Internet and intranet communications for such purposes, to provide for the development of a cadre of information technology specialists to improve and maintain effective cybersecurity defenses against disruption, and for other purposes."

We are on a thread concerning ACTA. Please, shed some light about the connection between your point about "Democrats", the above bill and ACTA.

756.11.2009 13:16

Originally posted by siber:
I'm very grateful to your uncle. The war was before my time but I do recognize Americans of WW2 did fight and sacrifice for Europe's freedom. That does not mean America today should expect the same gratitude to last forever. I'm sure you've long forgotten about Lafayette - a Frenchman - helping the US in its Independence War against the British. With good reason.. We all have to prove ourselves over and over. We cannot live off the glory of our ancesters.

ACTA was defeated in the European Parlament last night. At least in Europe "it ain't gonna happen".
True, but when Msr LaFayette went home he brought the idea of freedom w/ him. Then it spread to all the way to Louis IV's head. Comparing 1 man to millions of GI's is a bit of a stretch. There IS a lot to learn from the past mon amis. If we weren't pushed to the limit by the Brits, maybe no Revolution. Can't live off their glory, but CAN learn from their mistakes and / or successes.

Glad to hear you guys rejected ACTA. If the Europeans won't have it, it's hopefully gonna fade away here as well. Like I said, if this is a true democracy, have a referendum. Give the people their voice, instead of the fat cat supposedly representing us in DC telling us whats best for us when they are clueless when it comes to the real world.

766.11.2009 13:26

mcmenace, all in all I'm not going to argue with you on this. I believe we all have good intentions on AfterDawn. If we just listen to each others point of view, we've got a chance. Peace.

776.11.2009 14:05

Some of you still don't get it. It does not matter who is in power unless they are not crooks. In the US elections the media was the second biggest supporter of the elections, only the bankers paid more. Remember the trillions of dollars they got for that? They paid off both sides even though Obama is very beholding to the media. Opra was his first big supporter. I am sure this happened through out the world since we are seeing these laws commong up all over the world.

786.11.2009 14:20
scum101
Inactive


796.11.2009 16:07

Originally posted by siber:
mcmenace, all in all I'm not going to argue with you on this. I believe we all have good intentions on AfterDawn. If we just listen to each others point of view, we've got a chance. Peace.

I respectfully disagree.
If we just listen it will be business as usual and nothing will change. What chance is there for change by just listening
At some point you have to stop listening and start acting. Do your part, however seemingly small, to try and bring about the changes desired. The one's pushing for this abominable bill robbing us of our rights are the one's who need to listen. We are the one's who need to be heard. It's OUR right's being threatened.

806.11.2009 16:53
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by siber:
Daniel_1 :"A bill to ensure the continued free flow of commerce within the United States and with its global trading partners through secure cyber communications, to provide for the continued development and exploitation of the Internet and intranet communications for such purposes, to provide for the development of a cadre of information technology specialists to improve and maintain effective cybersecurity defenses against disruption, and for other purposes."

We are on a thread concerning ACTA. Please, shed some light about the connection between your point about "Democrats", the above bill and ACTA.

And exactly how hard would it have been for you to go to page one and just LOOK?! Here is your answer for exactly WHO started this ACTA crap!

"You are just finding out about this now???? This bill was introduced by a DEMOCRAT (sorry empulse)Sen Rockerfeller (who's family has more money then God) and one RINO Sen Olympia Snow (who votes with Democrats 98% of the time) So while a few of you may not like it, it is the DEMOCRATS that are trying to start this. With everything I read about the democrat I wonder just how someone can think it is ok for the US Government to control every aspect of your life from cradle to grave.

You can read the whole bill here
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s773/show

It has been read twice and referred to a committee and that is just Senate speak for it being sent to die there as it will never make it onto the committee's agenda to be given a hearing nor will it be allowed to come out from the committee for a full vote as the twit Rockerfeller was told in no uncertain terms that IF this was brought to the floor he would get exactly two votes, his and Snows; and not to be counting on Snows. As well as any damages done because of this bill to a citizen would place him in the rare position of being able to be sued by any citizen who was damaged by same, AND he would not receive any attorneys provided by the US Government, only provided by his wallet. If you call his office, they will tell you that they want nothing to do with this bill as he has received a load of shit from people demanding to know WTF he is doing/thinking!

If you want to contact him, here is his address and webpage

http://rockefeller.senate.gov/

Address:
531 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: 202-224-6472
Fax: 202-224-7665

let the games begin!"

816.11.2009 17:28

.23% of our private banking and business in the US has gov't money.. Some estimate it's as high as .75% Your hero St. Ronnie (aka - Captain Puddin head) held our heads under water @ 10% unemployment for 3+ yrs. Stepped in an fired workers who wanted better pay and better working conditions. You didn't scream an cry then.. you cheered. Our last Admin drove this country into a ditch, wiped their ass with the constitution, created LOYALTY OATHS, CREATED FREE SPEECH ZONES -- and you did nothing. You are a fake. You are a wanna be. *bleep* phony concern troll.

So die in a fire *bleep*. Gov't wants to control everything? You are an enigma wrapped in a dog turd. First you say "gubment" is the most incompetent thing ever created, then you scream an cry that it's trying to rule your life, with grand conspiracies.. secret muslim anti american plots. Do us all a favor you uneducated ass:

Kill your kids.
kill your wife.
then kill yourself.

You ideologues are what is wrong with this country -- you are so *bleep* ignorant that you believe every word outta some Mormon extremists mouth -- "He's on TV -- it MUSt be true!!" Good for you *bleep*.

You are EXACTLY the same as the Taliban. You think you can make your own reality, to fit your sad narrow ideology. And then you want to impose it on the rest of us. You don't understand what you are saying - you are uneducated and dangerous.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Nov 2009 @ 17:39

826.11.2009 17:39

empulse - Watch the language




Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***

836.11.2009 17:43

Originally posted by creaky:
empulse - Watch the language
its creaky the bleep machine

Powered By

846.11.2009 18:20

mcmenace, what exactly are you planning to do?

856.11.2009 18:21

Daniel_1, what exactly are you planning to do?

866.11.2009 18:47

Empulse, you're talking to me? You're talking to me!?

876.11.2009 22:02
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by siber:
Daniel_1, what exactly are you planning to do?
Do? About what? If you mean this bill I have already contacted all the House members from my state as well as the two Senators and very politely told them that they would be recalled if they voted for this bill if it ever made it out of committee and was sent to the full Congress for a vote. And God help them if they were on this committee and voted to let it pass out for a floor vote as the voters in my state would recall them so fast that all that would be in DC is an after image. We DO NOT tolerate such crap in the Great Lakes Area...and our US Congress reps know it.

Just to give you an example, an electric company here tried to get the PUCO to allow them to send us two CFL light bulbs and then charge us $21.00 for each of them. Once the uproar died down, the PUCO and the electric company was threatened with federal jail terms as well as massive fines and a few other things. The PUCO reversed their decision so blinkin fast that the voted against it BEFORE the voted for it and the electric company now is the proud owner of over 250,000 CFL light bulbs in a warehouse that they cannot get rid of nor can they pass the costs onto the customers for them.

As I said, we DO NOT tolerate any funny stuff from our elected reps nor our businesses...not if they want to stay that way.

886.11.2009 22:10
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by siber:
Empulse, you're talking to me? You're talking to me!?
Empulse was probably talking to me Siber, as I showed what morons his favorite political party was.


Oh and BTW Empulse, get your history facts correct. It is a violation of federal law for federal officers or medical/hospital workers to strike as well as Airline Traffic Controllers unless they make sure that EVERY plane is on the ground before they strike. The morons that Ronald Regan fired were fired NOT because they went on strike, these idiots were fired BECAUSE THEY LEFT OVER 20,000 PLANES IN THE FREAKIN AIR FILLED WITH PASSENGERS!!!! They were damn lucky they were not charged with attempted murder or they would have been charged if one person had been hurt or killed because they walked off their jobs! THAT is why they were fired and THAT is why very few of them ever were rehired. You really need to pull your head out of the MoveON.org/Daily Kook's/Huff'n'puff's arse and actually look at the REAL world.


If you cannot or will not understand that simple fact, then I really pity you as you are too far gone to reason with and are ready for a trip to the rubber room.

896.11.2009 23:40

Quote:
If you cannot or will not understand that simple fact, then I really pity you as you are too far gone to reason with and are ready for a trip to the rubber room.
aw common there not even made with rubber anymore.

907.11.2009 0:33

Quote:
Originally posted by empulse:
Originally posted by xnmalletx:
God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.
Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.
No it is not both. It is the Democrats and the RINO's. The rino's are just as bad. Where is the true conservative values to stop them from spending?
they are at the end of my rifle

917.11.2009 1:56

Quote:
Originally posted by siber:
Empulse, you're talking to me? You're talking to me!?
Empulse was probably talking to me Siber, as I showed what morons his favorite political party was.


Oh and BTW Empulse, get your history facts correct. It is a violation of federal law for federal officers or medical/hospital workers to strike as well as Airline Traffic Controllers unless they make sure that EVERY plane is on the ground before they strike. The morons that Ronald Regan fired were fired NOT because they went on strike, these idiots were fired BECAUSE THEY LEFT OVER 20,000 PLANES IN THE FREAKIN AIR FILLED WITH PASSENGERS!!!! They were damn lucky they were not charged with attempted murder or they would have been charged if one person had been hurt or killed because they walked off their jobs! THAT is why they were fired and THAT is why very few of them ever were rehired. You really need to pull your head out of the MoveON.org/Daily Kook's/Huff'n'puff's arse and actually look at the REAL world.


If you cannot or will not understand that simple fact, then I really pity you as you are too far gone to reason with and are ready for a trip to the rubber room.
Wow. Didnt know that about Reagan as it was a bit before my time. Despite whatever faults he had, I think he was one of the best leaders the country ever had.

927.11.2009 8:23
Daniel_1
Inactive

Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by empulse:
Originally posted by xnmalletx:
God damn it! This is America and we aren't gonna tolerate this. I don't know about anyone else around the world but there is gonna be a serious backlash when this gets enforced. Damn liberal democrats trying to take away our freedoms and rights. This once great country is seeing some dark days ahead of her.
Go shit in your hat. Liberals? Who are the pro corporate SOBs in this country that think corps should be able to do and say anything? If anything -- to be fair-- it is both. Both take money from the aholes that want to impose this.
No it is not both. It is the Democrats and the RINO's. The rino's are just as bad. Where is the true conservative values to stop them from spending?
they are at the end of my rifle

Be very careful how you say that soulglow. While I know you were joshing, some of the federal marshals and secret service may not and it is a federal felony to threaten a member of Congress with bodily harm. So while you are reasonably safe here, please do NOT make that statement in public as I dont want to have to see your posts coming from a federal prison

938.11.2009 7:45

now now while I appreciate the forward thinking concern for my well being i was merely alluding to the FACT that nothings gonna change until we put some real fear into our gov't. Everybody's so damn scared but nobody wants to fight. i read somewhere in the last few days that we fight by voting people out of office. i laughed not cuz its funny but cuz its so ironic how uneducated the educated are. George Washington didnt fight tyranny by voting...he FOUGHT!!! They walked in FEET of snow with no shoes for gods sake!! And it was still snowing. Just to intercept some German mercs that king george had hired to put down our founding fathers for standin up to his bullying. They kicked thier ass cuz of that sacrifice. We need to kick some ass now so these bitches know we mean business...otherwise we might as well just knowingly and willingly give ourselves over to foreign powers as slaves. we are practically already at that point now.
And i'm not just talkin Democrats here either. If you go against my Constitution i got a problem with you.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 08 Nov 2009 @ 7:50

948.11.2009 8:09

SoulGLOW - people won't take your comments seriously peppered with lazy and annoying text speak..




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958.11.2009 8:19
Daniel_1
Inactive

I agree, if you go against my constitution or try and make laws based on what someone thinks is there instead of what is actually there, I have a problem with them as well. What I was speaking about is not your post, but your statement of "a barrel of a gun" in the same sentence or post about federal congressional members. As I said people here in this thread know you are joshing...but we cannot say the same thing about people outside of this thread and there recently was a woman in Washington State that was placed under federal watch for 1 year just for saying that her Congress member should be pistol whipped like they did to some crooks back in the wild west.

All I am saying is please be careful of how you phrase what you mean. My grandpa used to tell me how they would actually look these politicians right in the face and tell them they should have their butts kicked and all it got them was a dirty look. Try that now and you will have a nice long prison sentence. Sigh...glad grandpa is gone as the US now is NOT what it used to be and it would tear him up to see how this country has changed so much....and not for the better.

968.11.2009 8:25

Originally posted by Daniel_1:
All I am saying is please be careful of how you phrase what you mean. My grandpa used to tell me how they would actually look these politicians right in the face and tell them they should have their butts kicked and all it got them was a dirty look. Try that now and you will have a nice long prison sentence. Sigh...glad grandpa is gone as the US now is NOT what it used to be and it would tear him up to see how this country has changed so much....and not for the better.
Indeed, people should look up what the Patriot Act defines as domestic terrorism..



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978.11.2009 19:06

The writer of the article lists no source?

I´ve been reading AD for a long time, and I trust it as a source of information - but that doesn´t mean you should start ignoring basic journalistic principles. Not with news articles as sensitive as this.

988.11.2009 19:14

Originally posted by Ghostdog:
The writer of the article lists no source?

I´ve been reading AD for a long time, and I trust it as a source of information - but that doesn´t mean you should start ignoring basic journalistic principles. Not with news articles as sensitive as this.
~ Easily found



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998.11.2009 21:37

Originally posted by siber:
mcmenace, what exactly are you planning to do?

What am I planning to do personally??
Already wrote my "representative" stating my points of view, then vote the idiots out of office, look for petitions, any little bit I can to try and stop this. I'm just a grain of sand on a big beach, but I have a VOICE and will be heard. There are small things each of us can do that will eventually add up, besides talk talk talk and whine. That wont accomplish a goddam thing. Sit around the PC and cry about how bad things are gonna be is a waste of time, at least TRY and do something about it. That's about all one man CAN do. What about yourself?

1009.11.2009 4:47

Creaky needs to realize that some people arent great typers. Textspeak?! not even close Mr. Mod-o-roboto-rater. He also needs to know what kinds of laws require a constitutional amendment to be legal apparently... but then again damn near the whole world let that misnomer of a (PATRIOT) bill have teeth.
Tell u what. I aint scared. not one bit. Guess George Washington was a terrorist in your eyes huh.

MCMenace has the right idea. But i bet everyone of you pays the bribe when u get a ticket or go to jail for driving w/out License, no tabs or plates or insurance. Not me. I fight it & i win cuz i have higher law on my side. All laws in this land are subservient to the US Constitution. You will probably have to appeal it, but once these judges and lawyers get slapped around by a few decisions from on high they fall in line with their oaths of office. Just don't go blaming anybody but yourselves for when this stuff gets worse. You'll be saying "Damn i wish i had fought more" cuz you'll be just like a football team that waits till the 4th quarter to start playing hard only to lose by a few points in the end. I'm fighting everyday by refusing to play their games anymore. And before any of you start in to me bout this i suggest you at least get some copies of our constitution. Get lots of em and give em out like Halloween candy

Anyway Daniel_1 I'm glad that you at least understand my position... scratch that... OUR position.

Heres some txtspk for creaky...BTW the reason these Corporations have so much power is because there was a landmark superior court case that said corporations can legally be defined as a person. thats why they seem to have more rights than an individual...well that and cuz they've got more $$$$ than you and I.

Anyway no hard feelings to NE1...sorry dude i just couldn't resist...your only comment to me was about my typing. SHEESH!!
We're all in this fight together. Remember that. Brothers in arms. peace out

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2009 @ 4:54

1019.11.2009 5:04

SoulGLOW - Text speak/lazy typing Ps i obviously mean your other posts too, not just the ones in this thread), call it what you will, i'm afraid you're so busy objecting to a simple request to type properly that you completely misinterpreted my comment on the Patriot Act. Please read it again.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2009 @ 5:46



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1029.11.2009 12:29

Originally posted by Ghostdog:
The writer of the article lists no source?

I´ve been reading AD for a long time, and I trust it as a source of information - but that doesn´t mean you should start ignoring basic journalistic principles. Not with news articles as sensitive as this.
Funny thing is actually did list a source, it was just a little bit hidden as a link through "bylines."

1039.11.2009 12:57

This is precisely why we end up losing! People don't remain focussed on the issues. People start bickering over trivial things that have little or no bearing on the issues at hand. Maybe you all should have more restraint. I've read some intelligent posts here. I'm an American! I'm not a Democrat, Republican, Indepent or otherwise with any political affiliation. We should all remember to do what is best for AMERICA and stop choosing to be a drone for any political party. Remember...AMERICA is an experiment...we are unique in history...we will make mistakes...common sense will correct them....faith in the American people(each other) will keep us moving forward. I don't presume to know everything, although I'm an educated man. Everything requires balance, i.e. book sense vs. common sense.... too much of one and not enough of the other is always a recipe for unrest. Sugar vs. Salt and so on...you get the idea. We are an experiment that's working! God Bless America!!!

1049.11.2009 13:32

After living in the US for thirty years desperately hoping and actively cooperating within the system that it would work, I decided to return to Europe because I truly believed that it was not working any longer. Europe is a much more predictable model of society and a bit boring at times. I still honestly hope America's experiment comes through. My kids live there and the American experiment remains close to my heart. Unfortunately its obsession with consumption, sports and entertainment, its complete loss of compassion for others, its political grandstanding and bullying, its religious and self-righteous pomposity have made me very cynical. Sorry.

1059.11.2009 20:39

all I can say...is 2 things

I need to check my email for the newsletter more often...

and WOW...that is scary stuff..there is too much big brother as it is..

It takes away a basic right to defend yourself when accused!

1069.11.2009 22:26
scum101
Inactive

I see 3 common trains of thought here (as an empowered and educated civil rights campaigner)

1: It's a political topic, so there are going to be political comments posted.

2: Regardless of people trying to say otherwise it IS an american funded, backed and pushed idea. It's fine for them to experiment on their own citizens, but get the hell out of my back yard unless you want a big comeback.

3: It involves the removal of very fundamental rights in a totally undemocratic manner in a method which sees no gain for society, individuals or the future.

It is a very bad idea.. deny people information and knowledge and you do in effect create a system of thought slaves. If you disagree go away, read 1984, look around you and think, then come back with comments ;)


10710.11.2009 5:29

Originally posted by SoulGLOW:
now now while I appreciate the forward thinking concern for my well being i was merely alluding to the FACT that nothings gonna change until we put some real fear into our gov't. Everybody's so damn scared but nobody wants to fight. i read somewhere in the last few days that we fight by voting people out of office. i laughed not cuz its funny but cuz its so ironic how uneducated the educated are. George Washington didnt fight tyranny by voting...he FOUGHT!!! They walked in FEET of snow with no shoes for gods sake!! And it was still snowing. Just to intercept some German mercs that king george had hired to put down our founding fathers for standin up to his bullying. They kicked thier ass cuz of that sacrifice. We need to kick some ass now so these bitches know we mean business...otherwise we might as well just knowingly and willingly give ourselves over to foreign powers as slaves. we are practically already at that point now.
And i'm not just talkin Democrats here either. If you go against my Constitution i got a problem with you.
The Govt. has a way of dealing with people who form large armies against it. It ususally involves a S.W.A.T. team with specialized firearms including assault rifles, submachine guns, shotguns, carbines, riot control agents, stun grenades, and high-powered rifles for snipers. They have specialized equipment including heavy body armor, entry tools, armored vehicles, advanced night vision optics, and motion detectors for covertly determining the positions of hostages or hostage takers inside of an enclosed structure. That's more than George Washington was up against. And it would be viewed more like Timothy McVeigh-ish than George Washington-ish.

10810.11.2009 5:49

emugamer, how sad... I'm glad I'm looking from the outside in. Sieg Heil!

10910.11.2009 8:25
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by siber:
emugamer, how sad... I'm glad I'm looking from the outside in. Sieg Heil!
Dont get too complacient. If we allow it to work here without fighting back, exactly how long do you think it will be before YOUR government tries it in YOUR country?


In battles like this, there are NO country boundries.....just the victors and the vanquished

11010.11.2009 8:58

Well said Daniel_1.

I am surprised how naive some of you are. Most elected officials would spit a baby and roast it if you gave them enough money. They are completely amoral. It is up to them to spin how they are saving their country by doing their act. The media has figured they lose trillions of dollars a year due to piracy. Mind you, only a mentally deranged entity would believe they are losing more then the total GNP of a country but that is what they believe.

They must be spending billions of dollars on a one-time fix to change the laws in all countries of the world. GB is actually way ahead on the US in that regard.

Only a TOTAL moron would believe one party is corrupt that their major party is not corrupt. In this world no matter the country, if you have enough money you can make your own justice any way you like. Because most politicians are crooks no matter where you go.

Once these laws are in place they will be nearly impossible to remove.

11110.11.2009 11:00

what is to think is that is there really any way to make difference.the is whatever we say...there is corruption and immorality everywhere...you cannot point a single place that is devoid of all this.

11210.11.2009 11:10

Originally posted by akai10:
there is corruption and immorality everywhere...you cannot point a single place that is devoid of all this.
Well that's certainly true of your signature :). If you don't want to pay Afterdawn to advertise ~ http://www.afterdawn.com/general/adprices.cfm then you'll need to remove the advertising from your signature. Forum Rules are in mine.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Nov 2009 @ 11:12



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11310.11.2009 11:36

well sorry about that.I did not know..what should I do..completely remove it or any modification will do...please suggest

11410.11.2009 11:42

You're serious ?. I was very clear. It needs removing.




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11510.11.2009 11:46

ok..actually I did not get it clear that signatures were also not allowed..

*signature removed*

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Nov 2009 @ 14:38

11610.11.2009 14:37

Originally posted by siber:
After living in the US for thirty years desperately hoping and actively cooperating within the system that it would work, I decided to return to Europe because I truly believed that it was not working any longer. Europe is a much more predictable model of society and a bit boring at times. I still honestly hope America's experiment comes through. My kids live there and the American experiment remains close to my heart. Unfortunately its obsession with consumption, sports and entertainment, its complete loss of compassion for others, its political grandstanding and bullying, its religious and self-righteous pomposity have made me very cynical. Sorry.
After asking several people what they plan on doing, they courteously answered you, when asked what YOU plan on doing you throw up a spiel about how bad it is in the USA, from the outside looking in yet. I figured you were just another windbag sitting here whining and chirping but prepared to do little else. Appears I'm right. You'd make a good politician, very adept at evading a direct question. So Mr. Siber people like you are the reason things are what they are. "American Experiment", hogwash, after over 200 years it's more than an experiment. It's an ongoing success with bumps along the way, most damaging the direct result of European Wars, such as the Midddle East and the Balkans, leftovers of your "empires" that you leave us to clean up. Sure, we have our problems, but we also have the freedom to do something about it. So sit there and jump in other's conversations, trying to make us out as foolish while those of us who REALLY care do what we can to right the wrongs as we see them. After 30 years here you probabbly went back to the "old country" to retire, don't hand me that crap about how bad it is in the US and how you just had to return to Europe after 30 years. What a joke. Sounds like you should have stayed there, and how can you stand to turn you back on your kids and leave them alone in such a godforsaken country as this?? Hogwash.

11710.11.2009 15:01

Wow, this 'debate' is really going all over, I absolutely love it! That being said the long of the short of it is:

Failure to get ACTA shot down will eventually hurt everyone not just the US. EVERYONE!

11810.11.2009 15:05

Originally posted by Mez:
Well said Daniel_1.

I am surprised how naive some of you are. Most elected officials would spit a baby and roast it if you gave them enough money. They are completely amoral. It is up to them to spin how they are saving their country by doing their act. The media has figured they lose trillions of dollars a year due to piracy. Mind you, only a mentally deranged entity would believe they are losing more then the total GNP of a country but that is what they believe.

They must be spending billions of dollars on a one-time fix to change the laws in all countries of the world. GB is actually way ahead on the US in that regard.

Only a TOTAL moron would believe one party is corrupt that their major party is not corrupt. In this world no matter the country, if you have enough money you can make your own justice any way you like. Because most politicians are crooks no matter where you go.

Once these laws are in place they will be nearly impossible to remove.
Mez
You are absolutely correct, anybody that believes a politician from either party isn't busy stuffing their pockets like a squirrel before winter is out of touch with reality. They may start out with good intentions, but once they become a part of the DC party circuit, they are bought and paid for. For that reason, vote them out of office once they start mis-representing the very people they took an oath for and is their sworn duty (meaningless these days) to represent.
We need to reach out and do our part to stop this bill from becoming the law of the land, and I don't think it will. The squeeky wheel gets the most grease, it's time to be heard. I've called and written both state and local politicians, prepared to do anything else to get the point accross. Haven't seen any petitions or the like. Why not a referendum?? That would be the end of it. Don't know how to enact one, but California has had several. That is Democracy in it's purest form. Let the people speak, instead of their so-called representatives.
mcm

11910.11.2009 15:23

mcmenace, the obvious anger in your tone suggests I hit a nerve. When you hit a nerve, there usually is something that hit a target. I have learned to accept criticism without going into a frenzy, so I do accept your criticism a lot easier now than when I was working my tail off in the US. It was a good experience. My daughter - born and raised in North Carolina - has recently moved to Europe, while my son lives with his European wife in the US. I visit him as often as I can and I hope he and his family do well. I look forward to all the "things you plan on doing" to resolve ACTA and political injustice in the US. If you do make even a little progress in those matters, I will be the first one to thank you. Believe me, I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't care more about those matters than about Football, the price of gas and the cause of death of Michael Jackson.

12010.11.2009 17:16

Originally posted by creaky:
SoulGLOW - Text speak/lazy typing Ps i obviously mean your other posts too, not just the ones in this thread), call it what you will, i'm afraid you're so busy objecting to a simple request to type properly that you completely misinterpreted my comment on the Patriot Act. Please read it again.
Creaky... Moderate.. Don't be a typing teacher. Or... shall we say, Dictator.

You have a tendency on these forums to point out peoples spelling and typing flaws more than you actually moderate them. Please do us all a favor, and stick to the task that you were given. Moderate, don't spout out useless triviality, it HIGHLY detracts from the thread, and makes you come off as an @$$.

I also have to agree with YOBUZZB, AD looses good people over trivial things stated, or good people wind up not adding to the conversation for a reason.

12110.11.2009 17:31

I know exactly how i come across on the forums and as i often state, i don't like it at all myself. But it's a lesser evil than leaving the place to be full of incoherence, foul language, spam, flaming etc etc.
I would rather correct everything quietly, however people wouldn't learn from their mistakes. If such time a staff member was to tell me they don't like something, that would be fine by me, however in this instance you have added nothing to the conversation with your comment and i already know how my comments look/come across.

So let's please allow the topic to get back on track.




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12210.11.2009 17:33
Daniel_1
Inactive

How sad. We first went from one person claiming that it was not "his" party member that started this and then getting a bit "touched" when it was shown that it was. Then we have shown that this will not stop in just once country and will, like the blob from the 1950's horror movie; continue to grow and devoure anything in its path that threatens it including your rights and freedoms. And instead of trying to stop this in it's tracks and let our supposedly elected leaders know we wont stand for this; it has devolved into personal attacks on postings and spellings and how people type with the required "my country is better and it cannot happen here" to the absolute disgusting "America is bad so I am leaving" threat instead of staying and fighting and trying to make it better.

I am glad that my grandfather did not live to see this day as it would have killed him if old age had not got him first. If this is the result of "enlightened" people, then I fear for the future of the human race.

12310.11.2009 18:07

"Absolutely disgusting 'America is disgusting and I'm leaving'"...Lots of anger there...

"Unfortunately its obsession with consumption, sports and entertainment, its complete loss of compassion for others, its political grandstanding and bullying, its religious and self-righteous pomposity have made me very cynical." This was not a personal attack but, to my own regret, the way I truly feel.

I am not yet likely to change my mind when some of you accuse all your own politicians of being worthless and unreliable, of proposing a referendum (free of lobbying and bribing?) or just 'voting them out of office'...Who will replace them, you think? I guess it's OK to throw stones, launch personal attacks, call people who disagree with you disgusting as long as you are 'from' America and you are blessed by God. As I said earlier, this doesn't mean I don't respect you for standing up, "fighting and trying to make it better". Just don't make it all be talk and hot air in the end.

The 1st defeat for ACTA hasn't come out of America but out of the European Parlament. It's now up to you, insults and yelling won't do.

12410.11.2009 18:34

Originally posted by siber:
mcmenace, the obvious anger in your tone suggests I hit a nerve. When you hit a nerve, there usually is something that hit a target. I have learned to accept criticism without going into a frenzy, so I do accept your criticism a lot easier now than when I was working my tail off in the US. It was a good experience. My daughter - born and raised in North Carolina - has recently moved to Europe, while my son lives with his European wife in the US. I visit him as often as I can and I hope he and his family do well. I look forward to all the "things you plan on doing" to resolve ACTA and political injustice in the US. If you do make even a little progress in those matters, I will be the first one to thank you. Believe me, I wouldn't be on this forum if I didn't care more about those matters than about Football, the price of gas and the cause of death of Michael Jackson.

No anger, just that you had the nerve to ask people what they were doing about the issue, they answered you. Then when asked yourself, you evaded the question, and still are. The issue is not you and your family, it's ACTA. If you "care so much" why do you just sit here and look for arguements??? Again, with the parenthesis around things you plan on doing like it's some kind of joke, after I already told you once when you asked. Sad to see you obviously plan on doing nothing more than whining here, you've had ample opportunity to make a statement and failed. You will be one of the first too whine if it passes and the last to try and stop it.

I see you are still trying to make jokes out of my suggestions. At least I use my mind for things that mean something, other than sitting around blowing hot air and arguing with anybody that answers you, and sticking your mouth in other's conversations, always with a negative or opposite statement. You seem to have a lot of time on your hands, why don't you put it to use?

12510.11.2009 21:41
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by siber:
"Absolutely disgusting 'America is disgusting and I'm leaving'"...Lots of anger there...

"Unfortunately its obsession with consumption, sports and entertainment, its complete loss of compassion for others, its political grandstanding and bullying, its religious and self-righteous pomposity have made me very cynical." This was not a personal attack but, to my own regret, the way I truly feel.

I am not yet likely to change my mind when some of you accuse all your own politicians of being worthless and unreliable, of proposing a referendum (free of lobbying and bribing?) or just 'voting them out of office'...Who will replace them, you think? I guess it's OK to throw stones, launch personal attacks, call people who disagree with you disgusting as long as you are 'from' America and you are blessed by God. As I said earlier, this doesn't mean I don't respect you for standing up, "fighting and trying to make it better". Just don't make it all be talk and hot air in the end.

The 1st defeat for ACTA hasn't come out of America but out of the European Parlament. It's now up to you, insults and yelling won't do.
Sorry Siber, the first defeat of this came when the author was told this bill would never be heard in committee nor allowed outside of committee, and that was three days after he placed it. So I think we got you there. But the author has stated that he will attach this to something that cannot be not authorized, our only hope is to keep watch on him and make sure that this never happens. That is what I am doing now. That also does not mean that the EU cannot enact this in some form and make all of its member states enact it as well.

12611.11.2009 1:17

Well I feel I need to chime in again. After reading the latter posts, I was simply compelled to add some additional comments. I see the bickering has continued over things non-essential to the issue. Since reading the initial posts, I have contacted my State and U.S. representatives letting them know where I stand. I encourage all of you, who feel as I do, to do the same. We must apply as much pressure as necessary to be assured that our elected officials do what they were sent to do....represent us! I'm sorry that some here in this forum chose to leave the U.S., for whatever reason, but those whose roots are here, those that are who they are because of this country, we have a duty to protect our freedoms. This country was born from fighters! First we talked and when that didn't work, we walked....right into history and created a free society. Do your duty, fight! Don't be part of the silent majority while the vocal minority writes their own ticket! Call, write, email, twitter, facebook, blog, visit our elected officials and fight for what you know is right! If we don't, who will?


"In all your getting, get an understanding!"

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12711.11.2009 2:46

Originally posted by YOBUZZB:
Well I feel I need to chime in again. After reading the latter posts, I was simply compelled to add some additional comments. I see the bickering has continued over things non-essential to the issue. Since reading the initial posts, I have contacted my State and U.S. representatives letting them know where I stand. I encourage all of you, who feel as I do, to do the same. We must apply as much pressure as necessary to be assured that our elected officials do what they were sent to do....represent us! I'm sorry that some here in this forum chose to leave the U.S., for whatever reason, but those whose roots are here, those that are who they are because of this country, we have a duty to protect our freedoms. This country was born from fighters! First we talked and when that didn't work, we walked....right into history and created a free society. Do your duty, fight! Don't be part of the silent majority while the vocal minority writes their own ticket! Call, write, email, twitter, facebook, blog, visit our elected officials and fight for what you know is right! If we don't, who will?
Very well said; everybody on this thread should take his words to heart. You can all argue back and forth with your nihilistic views about democracy, but ideally what makes democracy such a noble idea is the fact that the voice of the people shapes the policies and laws of the country. However, the sad fact is that we've reached a point in our history where, like he said, it has become a silent majority and vocal minority. Apathy and talks of pointlessness ultimately create a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the ones speaking of such concepts could be otherwise engaging the system they are also speaking out about. Intelligent idealists -- from all parties -- have been silent long enough.

12811.11.2009 2:53

I don't expect the battles are over. These are very determined people from the world of Private Enterprise with lots of money and very skilled legal advisers.

12911.11.2009 9:08
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by siber:
I don't expect the battles are over. These are very determined people from the world of Private Enterprise with lots of money and very skilled legal advisers.
Then all we can do is to make them understand that we will be their worst nightmare if they do this. We will not purchase anything they have to sell nor will we purchase anything ANYONE that joins with this, has to sell. We will constantly file challenges in courts and be a worse gadfly then any pest they have ever known. In short we will be the thorn in their side and make this issue far more trouble then they ever dreamed it would or could be and make them regret the day they thought this was a good idea.

13012.11.2009 4:59

All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.


Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

13112.11.2009 10:13
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by Mrguss:
All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.

Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at.

13212.11.2009 13:04

Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Originally posted by Mrguss:
All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.

Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at.
If the Goverment that have more Money and Man Power that them wherever; Can't Control 13 Millions illegals......do you really think this People can Controll +80 Millions of us ?

Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

13312.11.2009 13:57

Say what, Mrguss?

13412.11.2009 15:01

Originally posted by Mrguss:
Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Originally posted by Mrguss:
All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.

Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at.
If the Goverment that have more Money and Man Power that them wherever; Can't Control 13 Millions illegals......do you really think this People can Controll +80 Millions of us ?
theres no reason for the upper crust to worry about the illegals they work cheaper and harder and allow you to pander to the public and fear monger to get your pawns into office....so meh....

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

13512.11.2009 17:30

I agree with you ZippyDSM a 100%.
I was an illigal (Mexico. Toluca City). Now I am a Citizen. Been here for awhile.......

I was just talking a comparation to see the quantity in real Numbers of People they have to deal with.

What they can do? ......NOTHING !!!


Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

13612.11.2009 17:43

Originally posted by Mrguss:
I agree with you ZippyDSM a 100%.
I was an illigal (Mexico. Toluca City). Now I am a Citizen. Been here for awhile.......

I was just talking a comparation to see the quantity in real Numbers of People they have to deal with.

What they can do? ......NOTHING !!!
Like many things immigration is something that "the system" uses against the people, its not that a system of rules is bad or anything but we do not do anything to protect those rules IE we let illegals come in here and do little to get them out. From what I have researched they do drain local resources and are hard to track but other than that the majority of them are good hard working folk. It would be rather easy to enact a new temp card system where "we"(the us gov in this instance) can count them track them and tax them, if they are criminal toss them out if not just tax them with a 20K fine per head. But no we wont to to argue semantics and ignore it all in the process.

I am for letting them stay as long as they are paying, we need the tax payers more than anything else but they(US officials) don't want to do anything because they can gain more for themselves keeping things in the void....

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

13712.11.2009 20:02

I Agree with you againg ZippyDSM a 100%:

The illegal comunity: They are not going to "NO WHERE". They need to be put in the same System we are; To have in the long run a Better Country.

The System of "Rules" that the Goverment have is to make money from us one way or another. Same thing with "Casinos" they are there to rip people off (10 to 90).

Now: SPSs "rules" samething; They are there to increase revenue to those "Greedy Corporations Cartels" like: EMI, SONY, UNIVERSAL, WARNER and Others alike (Around 10 Billions Dollars each year they make already) protected by Grups like RIAA, EUCD, WIPO, DMCA, etc. They not only already strip from Artists of theirs Copyright interest as a "Work Made For Hire" on 1999 and Transfer those Interest to the Record Labels and others things........Now they want us too ?

"WE THE PEOPLE".....We are more that them !!!
Thanks to "OUR MONEY" they are who they are.


Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

13812.11.2009 20:06

Sorry: "ISPs Rules"


Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

13912.11.2009 20:25

Originally posted by Mrguss:
Sorry: "ISPs Rules"
Uuu can edit uurr posts ya know :P

Anyway I agree more or less, the system we have before us has been tweaked over the last few decades to serve those in and around it and not the people its meant to serve...

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

14012.11.2009 21:13

Originally posted by siber:
Say what, Mrguss?
Again you look for argument, but have absolutely nothing to say.
Whine on, was waiting for you to put forth something intelligent since you are monitoring this thread and after jumping in several conversations and questioning people like they don't know what they are talking about, when questioned yourself, you say nothing.
Open mouth, insert foot.
Pull it out now, it's obvious where you're coming from.
mcm

14112.11.2009 21:16

Originally posted by mcmenace:
Originally posted by siber:
Say what, Mrguss?
Again you look for argument, but have absolutely nothing to say.
Whine on, was waiting for you to put forth something intelligent since you are monitoring this thread and after jumping in several conversations and questioning people like they don't know what they are talking about, when questioned yourself, you say nothing.
Open mouth, insert foot.
Pull it out now, it's obvious where you're coming from.
mcm
Meh sometimes when I type something its about as clear as soup, I don;t mind re saying what I mean when someone asks....even if I think its not that hard to understand....

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

14212.11.2009 21:25

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Anyway I agree more or less, the system we have before us has been tweaked over the last few decades to serve those in and around it and not the people its meant to serve...
The Main Problem here is the making of "THE CORPORATIONS" and they "GREED AGENDA" where on top of the Shark's list are "Our Goverment" and the "Credit Cards" Co's. just to mention some of them.

Where our way of living is going backward to the Point that we start to feel like "WE ARE THE NEXT GENERATION OF SLAVES" we like it or not !

"I thought I left Mexico Long Time Ago; BUT NOT: The Monopolys are rainning on my back once again, like a NASTY MONKIES"

Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

14312.11.2009 21:42

Originally posted by Mrguss:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Anyway I agree more or less, the system we have before us has been tweaked over the last few decades to serve those in and around it and not the people its meant to serve...
The Main Problem here is the making of "THE CORPORATIONS" and they "GREED AGENDA" where on top of the Shark's list are "Our Goverment" and the "Credit Cards" Co's. just to mention some of them.

Where our way of living is going backward to the Point that we start to feel like "WE ARE THE NEXT GENERATION OF SLAVES" we like it or not !

"I thought I left Mexico Long Time Ago; BUT NOT: The Monopolys are rainning on my back once again, like a NASTY MONKIES"
Well its a multi step problem first off you make the public only worry about themselves and fill their little bumpkin heads with capitalistic dreams of grander(normal capitalism is not bad when regulated, modern poorly regulated capitalism wants to give everything to top 10% while faking the top 50% can live the dream as it were) that with typical human tendencies to only see the world around them and not think their day to day little worlds leads the public to be soft and easily abused by modern entrepreneurs called politicians.

With the people half awake the system can easily be changed as we have seen it done so over the last 30 to 40 years. The question is now what I can see steady decline of the US worth and dollar with with the end of federal social serves in less than 50 years.

There is nothing to stop the breaking point from coming we no longer protect our boarders our businesses our workers or our worth as a currency, now with that said if there is a change to a one world currency(say a 'credit' setup were 1= .10th a cent or 10= 1 current US sent) this would assist the world in being able to buy stuff from any region,ect and would further grease the gears of business at least enough to make middle and lower business be that much closer to having a world wide filed to market too. But it wont make the US great again it might help it survive.

I mean unless there is another obscene growth/wealth,ect decadeal bubble the US is on the decline and has the scares of abuse negligence to show for it... I eman sure if we started to protect our selfs again and place tariffs and taxs on imported goods and companies not in the US we might could heal some...but frankly I just don;t see it...the US will become like Mexico in 50-100 years.... you'll have the supper rich and the supper poor and government workers will be the middle class....barely.... though I am hoping the US and Mexico will beg Canada to take them over and run things correctly.....wishful thinking eh? LOL

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

14413.11.2009 0:04

Well, Canada have a better way of living that USA. So far Canada do not have a Big Economic Problems like USA or Mexico combined....some how they been manage things better.

The Problem with USA is that we are not United 'cos we all have diff. Backgrounds is like "We The Latinos we are not United either" like Blacks, whites, Arabs or Orientals they United. We are not ! and the Government and Corporations know that.

So if we want to change our System, we need to work as one agains "Corporations Rules" supported "half-way" by our own Government.
Just like is been happenning with Corporations and Others to make use of our Own Credit Reports AGAINS US, when they should be a confidential issue Protected by the 3 Credit Bureaus....is just pure BS !!!


Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

14513.11.2009 2:22

ZippyDSM, I like that last statement. In order to change the things you and others are concerned about, you have to have a government without corruption and without narrow interests.

There is no perfect government anywhere in the world. On a corruption index of the political world, the US and Mexico are somewhere in the middle, which should say something. The best index is found in Scandinavian countries. Canada's is very good.

We can limit lobbying, make politicians less interested in personal gain by having them rely entirely on a salary, increase oversight and expedite punishment for transgressions. Term limits and preventing politicians later on from switching to the private world where they can use their knowledge and influence to circumvent the system might be considered. These measures are needed to advance the American Experiment and pull it back on track towards the common interest of all the American people as well as the rest of us.

ACTA and its future variations on the same theme will need watching.

14613.11.2009 2:57

whatever happened to His Majesty, dare i say that he may have been riding thy noble steed north facing the south star.


14713.11.2009 3:15

Actually quite funny there, DXR88. I was provoked by my good friend mcmenace to say something positive, so I tried.

14818.11.2009 1:24
lim268653
Inactive

SPAM removed

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Nov 2009 @ 5:13

14918.11.2009 10:24
Daniel_1
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Originally posted by Mrguss:
All this is just Propaganda.....like a little bumper sticker or any another Warning sign.

They do not have the Money and the Man Power to Control nobody.!

Amen.

Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at.


If the Goverment that have more Money and Man Power that them wherever; Can't Control 13 Millions illegals......do you really think this People can Controll +80 Millions of us ?


Dont have to, all they need do is make the rules so strict that it will scare the ISP's into dropping you if you sneeze wrong. Sooner or later you are going to run out of ISP's to turn to and your internet access is gone for good. And an easy way to do this is just make a databoard that they can connect to to see if you were tossed from another ISP and what reason was given. They already do this for truck drivers licenses so how hard would it be to do this for ISP's and if they start that, it's over.

15024.11.2009 17:54

See here ~ http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/816086/4935896




Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***

15124.11.2009 21:15
Daniel_1
Inactive

My point exactly Creaky...if they want you they will get you and there is nowhere you can hide. When I was in the military back in the 1980's they had sats that could count the dimples on a golf ball from 350 miles into space and could zoom in to tell you what color bra Posh Spice was wearing at any given moment. And there is no way you are going to tell me that they have not improved it by now.


Here is a spooky thought, a fact but a thought non-the-less...ALL the computer programs and devices you see used in Will Smiths/Gene hackman's Enemy of the State and Diane Lane's untraceable movies...actually exist!!! They tell you this in the credits when you read what Federal Spook agency they give credit to and they give you just enough info to scare you because if you really knew what was available to them...you would never leave your home again. And with the GPS for the cells, they can now track you by your mobile (cell phone) to withing 5 feet of your present location no matter if it is on or off. All it has to do is be able to receive a signal and your cooked.

So we will go down fighting, but 1984 just happened a few years after the original date.

15229.11.2009 7:18
moremony
Inactive

hey , Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at SPAM removed. If the Goverment that have SPAM removed and Man Power that them wherever; Can't Control 13 Millions illegals......do you really think this People can Controll +80 Millions of us ?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Nov 2009 @ 7:23

15329.11.2009 10:40
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by moremony:
hey , Really? Tell that to the MPAA and the RIAA and to the people who's lives they have ruined and then try and come back here with a straight face and say that again. But dont be a bit surprised when you are laughed at SPAM removed. If the Goverment that have SPAM removed and Man Power that them wherever; Can't Control 13 Millions illegals......do you really think this People can Controll +80 Millions of us ?
Read the above statement dude. If they can read a license plate from 250 miles up and zoom in and tell what color Posh Spice's bra is today...are you honestly going to sit there and try and state they cannot trace you from any site they want to look at, right back to your home? Tell you what. Start selling illegal downloads and make no secret of your doing it and see how fast it is going to be before you get a knock on the door.

As for the 13 million illegals, they know EXACTLY where they are! The US Government knows that 99.9% of them are all in Democrat governed areas like California and Washington state and New York and so on as the reps there know they will vote for them and as such protect them. Dont believe me...then look at the NEW stink about Acorn. Acorn has been found to be registering illegals in Florida-New York-California-Arizona-New mexico Oregon-Washington State, for drivers licenses and voting rights. I mean get real...did you ACTUALLY think that the Gov of Washington State was legally elected when even left wing poll workers out there have freely admitted that there were votes for this twit coming from dead people (one poll worker admitted that she had a wife vote for her husband even though the husband died three weeks BEFORE the election, and the vote was for the democrat...or that King County had more registered voters then people who actually LIVE in the county?~! Yet the Democrat controlled State Supreme Court allowed the election to stand.)

SO dont try that "they dont know where the illegals are" with me bud, as there is way too much proof to the contrary.

15429.11.2009 14:26

Be afraid, be very afraid. It is true that "Big Brother" is intruding more and more into our personal lives. I am not sure it is quite as bad in the US - as of yet - as it is suggested by Daniel_1, but there is reason for concern.

ACTA would eliminate Due Process (Holding the government subservient to the law of the land, protecting individual persons from the State)and I don't think it will pass muster yet. It is just scary that it is even being considered in a country that champions "Human Rights and Equality For All" in its Constitution.

When I asked people what they planned to actually DO about things, I apparently irritated some folks. I was not suggesting anything else than that we all needed to remain vigilant, participate in the voting process and let our elected officials know we were expecting them to abide by the laws in place or else...

Unfortunately, I have no reason to believe that the majority of the American public has a clue about what is happening in their own backyard. I see little else than obsession with money, television and sports. Hopefully, one of these days that will change.

15529.11.2009 15:10
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by siber:
Be afraid, be very afraid. It is true that "Big Brother" is intruding more and more into our personal lives. I am not sure it is quite as bad in the US - as of yet - as it is suggested by Daniel_1, but there is reason for concern.

ACTA would eliminate Due Process (Holding the government subservient to the law of the land, protecting individual persons from the State)and I don't think it will pass muster yet. It is just scary that it is even being considered in a country that champions "Human Rights and Equality For All" in its Constitution.

When I asked people what they planned to actually DO about things, I apparently irritated some folks. I was not suggesting anything else than that we all needed to remain vigilant, participate in the voting process and let our elected officials know we were expecting them to abide by the laws in place or else...

Unfortunately, I have no reason to believe that the majority of the American public has a clue about what is happening in their own backyard. I see little else than obsession with money, television and sports. Hopefully, one of these days that will change.
They DONT have a clue, that is why when you mention stuff like this they look at you with a blank look or a look of disbelief. Or they say "My government would not do that." I had, and still have; a Cosmic Top Secret Security Clearance from the US Government while I was in the Military and some of the things I could tell you would turn your hair white and make you so paranoid that it is not funny. For instance one that I can talk about is a program that allows them to intercept ANY electronic traffic and add to it-rewrite it-delete it-or do whatever they want with it. And you would not know anything was done. How do you think they know exactly what was being said in e-mails from the Muslum "charity" and its contacts in the Middle East, enough to know to freeze it's assets. And England-Russia-China-Canada-and a host of other countries have the same ability...it is called Echelon. If you are in Alaska, go look. The Antenna field is within 150 miles of Anchorage. HAARP is up by Nome Alaska. And they have yet another Antenna field in Europe and in Australia for Echelon. The US Government is on Internet 5 and it has a 5TBPS (and yes you read correctly 5 TERABYTE PER SECOND transfer rate. The major universities and medical colleges have Internet 3 and that is HDTV quality picture in real time. As such they can have a neurosurgeon in NY operating on a patient in LA by observing and instructing the Surgeon in REAL TIME! If any of you have watched the TV show NCIS and they are in the room with the wall to wall monitor, that ACTUALLY EXISTS and was modeled after one that is located in the US Pentagon on sub level 4.

You can say I am paranoid, but it is not paranoia if you know EXACTLY what your claiming exists....actually does exist! I mean get real here...if NASA can show you pictures of galaxy's 200 million light years away and show you what they look like, or know for a fact there are planets orbiting suns outside our solar system or can look at Jupiter and tell you the weather there, you think for one second they cannot tell if you shaved this morning or not??

And with all this power, you know that somewhere there is a person that is going to use it to his/her/their advantage. So dont believe that it is this bad if that helps you make it to sleep each night, and while I am not picking on you and I hope you dont take it that way...but dont try and convince me that it is not this bad as like I said if I could tell you half of what I know and not violate my security clearance and spend the rest of my life in prison, I would make you so paranoid that you would never leave your home.

15629.11.2009 16:15

Daniel_1, I have no reason to doubt what you are saying. The technology to keep an eye on anybody and everybody is there. It will only get even more sophisticated and scary.

What matters at this point, I think, is that all this information not be used inappropriately. As long as the public doesn't react at all and remains apathetic, we can be guaranteed that it WILL be used for purposes that have no place in a true Democracy "by the People for the People". I am hopeful but not optimistic. Clearly, you are not either.

15729.11.2009 18:37
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by siber:
Daniel_1, I have no reason to doubt what you are saying. The technology to keep an eye on anybody and everybody is there. It will only get even more sophisticated and scary.

What matters at this point, I think, is that all this information not be used inappropriately. As long as the public doesn't react at all and remains apathetic, we can be guaranteed that it WILL be used for purposes that have no place in a true Democracy "by the People for the People". I am hopeful but not optimistic. Clearly, you are not either.
I am not picking on you and if that is the way it came out, you have my apologies. I just wanted everyone to know exactly how dangerous this bill is if we let it continue and dont fight it. Even if we dont win, at least we went down swinging.

15830.11.2009 5:58

Originally posted by Daniel_1:
...there is nowhere you can hide. When I was in the military back in the 1980's they had sats that could count the dimples on a golf ball from 350 miles into space and could zoom in to tell you what color bra Posh Spice was wearing at any given moment. And there is no way you are going to tell me that they have not improved it by now.
So you are saying that the only way to avoid detection with such a system is to be in one of the programed "blind spots" like Area 51 or Camp David? If this is the case, I think I know where Osama is hiding.


15930.11.2009 9:47
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by KillerBug:
Originally posted by Daniel_1:
...there is nowhere you can hide. When I was in the military back in the 1980's they had sats that could count the dimples on a golf ball from 350 miles into space and could zoom in to tell you what color bra Posh Spice was wearing at any given moment. And there is no way you are going to tell me that they have not improved it by now.
So you are saying that the only way to avoid detection with such a system is to be in one of the programed "blind spots" like Area 51 or Camp David? If this is the case, I think I know where Osama is hiding.
Dude, you are NOT listening. Sat photos already tell you what Camp David and Area 51 looks like, in fact here is one for Area 51

http://gmaps.tommangan.us/groom_lake.html

and here is one for Camp David

http://cryptome.org/eyeball/david-03-07/david-03-07.htm


And these are just 1st Generation cameras, they are up to 10th Generation now.

So what exactly were you saying about these two sites?? ;-)

1602.12.2009 11:46

edited this out as the latest draft, according to a leak summarized on the Boing Boing website doesn't show anything different to the initial AD article.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Dec 2009 @ 11:49



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1614.12.2009 7:28

"Full prohibitions on breaking DRM,"

The EU has already announced that 'portability' is a key issue. That is, that once you've bought your music track or film, you MUST be able to play it on ANY device you own.
From documents I've seen* this seems to be one of the EU's bargaining chips - allow 'portability' and we'll support all the other stuff (three strikes and out etc.)
But making all media 'portable' would seem to spell the end of DRM.

(* can't remember the site, but there is an EU site which deals with legal issues surrounding the media industry. It's written for/by lawyers - very heavy stuff - but it's very 'interesting')

1624.12.2009 9:48
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by AIPO:
"Full prohibitions on breaking DRM,"

The EU has already announced that 'portability' is a key issue. That is, that once you've bought your music track or film, you MUST be able to play it on ANY device you own.
From documents I've seen* this seems to be one of the EU's bargaining chips - allow 'portability' and we'll support all the other stuff (three strikes and out etc.)
But making all media 'portable' would seem to spell the end of DRM.

(* can't remember the site, but there is an EU site which deals with legal issues surrounding the media industry. It's written for/by lawyers - very heavy stuff - but it's very 'interesting')
I dont doubt what your saying is true..but if this is the case then the EU is not enforcing this as all you need to do is look at Ipod and see that any music bought from iPod is encrypted so you can only play it on an iPod. That is a far cry from being portable....and yet the EU allows these to be sold in the countries they are suppose to represent?

Dont know about you but that sorta confuses me....

16321.9.2010 10:49
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