AfterDawn: Tech news

UPDATED: IsoHunt ordered to take down torrents, site likely to close

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 01 Apr 2010 23:31 User comments (124)

UPDATED: IsoHunt ordered to take down torrents, site likely to close Update: We have been contacted by Ira P. Rothken: "I am the lawyer for Isohunt in their litigation against the Major Movie Studios. There is no injunction in the Isohunt case. The parties are still briefing what an injunction, if any, will look like."
In a decision that will likely take down the giant torrent indexer, a judge has ordered IsoHunt to remove all torrents linking to infringing content.

The massive site has over 30 million unique users per month, and was one of the largest public trackers behind The Pirate Bay and Mininova.

The MPAA had sued IsoHunt in 2007, and last year a judge ruled against the indexer, saying it created a venue for illegal file sharing.

Writes Judge Stephen Wilson: "It is axiomatic that the availability of free infringing copies of plaintiffs' works through defendants’ websites irreparably undermines the growing legitimate market for consumers to purchase access to the same works." Continuing (via Wired), Wilson says: "Upwards of 95 percent of all dot-torrent files downloaded from defendants' websites return infringing material or works at least highly likely to be infringing."

Gary Fung, the owner of IsoHunt, must now remove all infringing content by April 12th, as well as start filtering against keywords. "It amounts to nothing less than taking down our search engine," says Fung of the request.

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124 user comments

12.4.2010 1:28

First Pirate Bay, then Mininova, now Isohunt. What the hell is going on here? Now we're left with bad torrent sites. Hopefully one of the owners of these sites stands up and makes a come back. FIGHT THE POWER! :D

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Apr 2010 @ 1:30

22.4.2010 2:18

Gosh Mininova horrible site now that there's basically NOTHING on it but unknown music artists and strange videos that arent even on Youtube. Pirate bay doesn't do any filtering though, or does it?

32.4.2010 4:22

Originally posted by mike.m:
First Pirate Bay, then Mininova, now Isohunt. What the hell is going on here? Now we're left with bad torrent sites. Hopefully one of the owners of these sites stands up and makes a come back. FIGHT THE POWER! :D
lol! keep it low they just might sue you as well!

42.4.2010 5:32
el_golfo
Inactive

this seems like it will be a never-ending battle from both sides. i mean as one or more of these sites get taken down, i seem to find a few new smaller sites that are just the same. peoples technological abilities are improving and its just a matter of time before a technologically skilled person makes the next, great torrent giant.

52.4.2010 8:38
cousinkix
Inactive

Funny how most of those big 4 record companies are not even owned by Amerikans; but the US courts want to meddle with a torrent tracker in Europe too. Indeed three of them are located in the three WW-2 Axis countries!

Meanwhile, those Mexican drug cartels are threatening to invade border towns and kill Amerikans who get in their way. You can read all about it at CNN.com or on the Fox News Channel's website. Faced with possible anarchy and a guerilla war; the capitalist pig US regeime worries more about this internnet crap instead...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Apr 2010 @ 8:42

62.4.2010 12:22

Yeah its a sad day for us Americans. We know who runs the country its not the elected officals that we the people voted in. Heck our elected officals dont even listen to us. Its all the corporations that are getting what they want.

72.4.2010 12:24

Looks like Hexagon's about to get big then.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 02 Apr 2010 @ 12:24

82.4.2010 22:31
trident77
Inactive

Originally posted by mike.m:
First Pirate Bay, then Mininova, now Isohunt. What the hell is going on here? Now we're left with bad torrent sites. Hopefully one of the owners of these sites stands up and makes a come back. FIGHT THE POWER! :D
well a new one out is torrentday fastest speeds i know of. when one torrent site gets knocked down another one pops up so it's not really a problem.

93.4.2010 20:14
lissenup2
Inactive

Originally posted by mike.m:
First Pirate Bay, then Mininova, now Isohunt. What the hell is going on here? Now we're left with bad torrent sites. Hopefully one of the owners of these sites stands up and makes a come back. FIGHT THE POWER! :D

104.4.2010 19:49

Originally posted by mike.m:
First Pirate Bay, then Mininova, now Isohunt. What the hell is going on here? Now we're left with bad torrent sites. Hopefully one of the owners of these sites stands up and makes a come back. FIGHT THE POWER! :D
I wouldn't call iso hunt a good site.. any site that lets anyone upload and doesn't ever require log in to download is full of spam and viruses.. I use it as a last resort... try demonoid or bitsoup if you want a GOOD site....

116.4.2010 17:07
ogchris
Unverified new user

or you can just go here http://www.daveproxy.co.uk/ and go to isohunt.com and this site can still use the full version

127.4.2010 10:05
anon
Unverified new user

I live in HK, and isohunt doesn't work anymore, does it work elsewhere?

139.4.2010 17:46

torrentz.com

149.4.2010 20:23
Daniel_1
Inactive

Why are you crying? ANY country can be investigated as long as they are signed members of Interpol. The faster you get used to that idea the better off you will be. As such it makes no difference where you are, if your country is signed onto Interpol, they can make you rewrite your laws and prosecute you for downloading as well. Oh and BTW, to the arsehole who used the term "Amerika" get over yourself n00b, Interpol is a EUROPEAN idea...not American. Stupid moron!

159.4.2010 21:13

Originally posted by cousinkix:
Funny how most of those big 4 record companies are not even owned by Amerikans; but the US courts want to meddle with a torrent tracker in Europe too. Indeed three of them are located in the three WW-2 Axis countries!

Meanwhile, those Mexican drug cartels are threatening to invade border towns and kill Amerikans who get in their way. You can read all about it at CNN.com or on the Fox News Channel's website. Faced with possible anarchy and a guerilla war; the capitalist pig US regeime worries more about this internnet crap instead...
Oh I wouldn't worry about that by 2030 the USA will be mainly a Latino country, with more Spanish speakers than English.

169.4.2010 21:28

Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Why are you crying? ANY country can be investigated as long as they are signed members of Interpol. The faster you get used to that idea the better off you will be. As such it makes no difference where you are, if your country is signed onto Interpol, they can make you rewrite your laws and prosecute you for downloading as well.
Wrong. Go do some research. Interpol has very little to do with it and in your own words Stupid moron!


Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Oh and BTW, to the arsehole who used the term "Amerika" get over yourself n00b, Interpol is a EUROPEAN idea...not American. Stupid moron!
Typical, go back to work at WB or what ever movie company you work for if you can not make a post without abusing someone.

What they going to do next, shut down Google, Bing and all the others as well as newsgroups. Then sue the manufacturers of computer parts and software for "aiding" the "criminal masterminds that are destroying society as we know it". Lets be real here folks, are they really losing money? Well from the last report I heard no. Their profits are still up and still setting box new office records every year. It's just greed driving this and nothing more. However on the rare occasion their is a legitamate gripe from the producers/directors etc.

179.4.2010 21:36
Paula_X
Inactive

I'm STILL waiting for my royalties from my creative commons licensed "copyleft" music which the RIAA (cartel thieving scum) forcibly "collected" on my "behalf" from various radio stations, and now refuse to hand over unless I "sign up" to their corrupt cartel...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/haveyoursay/2...y_laws_str.html

there is a big war coming.. and it won't be the majority of the general public who will lose out.. A commenter says what I have been saying for 3 years now.. "A 6 month boycott of ALL cartel products will soon bring them to heel" .. or must you have your Jedward and your R&B garbage?.. MUST??

By the way.. Boycott means exactly that.. no buying.. no downloading.. don't touch.. treat them with total scorn and just maybe they will get the message. There are plenty of non aligned independent musicians out in the world who don't subscribe to the greed cartel.. come and find us and open your mass media brainwashed eyes and ears for once in your lives and stop being bloody sheep!!

189.4.2010 23:38
Daniel_1
Inactive

Bluedog, are you really that much of a moronic dumbass or are you really trying hard? ALL countries that sign onto the Interpol agreement agree to allow Interpol to operate in their country under international law as well as change the laws of the country to comply with international agreements. That you ignorant ass is in the agreement that you would know if you bothered to read it. And it is not abuse to call a moron a moron, and when someone intentionally screws with the name of a country just because they dont like the politics of that country, then how can it be abusive when the original idiotic moron was abusive in intentionally screwing it up? People like you who defend twits like that are sorta like the pot calling the kettle black when you whine about it instead of taking the fool to task that first did it. Oh and as for your stupid remark about shutting down Google...the French ALREADY DID!! The French have passed a national law that if ANY internet content infuses or disrupts the "purity of the French Language" then it is banned from coming into France by any means. It is already against the law to even mention the words "hotdog-hamburger-pepsi-coke-french bread-and a host of other words used all over the world today. Dont believe me you sorry fool? Then read it here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...podcasting.html or here http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2003/07/59674 or here http://www.france24.com/en/20100331-fran...french-language

So tell you what, you mouthy little twerp..when you finally grow up and grow a set as well as get a few pubic hairs so you stop showing your ignorance, then and MAYBE then your betters might just listen to what you have to say, until then go back and tell your mommy that both your bottom AND head are filled and need changed.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Apr 2010 @ 23:48

1910.4.2010 0:02

Never used Isohunt much anyway. Used to love mininova though. Such a shame about Torrentspy, and thepiratebay as well. There are other sites though. There always will be.
Probably shouldn't say this, but it's probably been said somewhere anyway:
Mininova...Mightynova...Hmmm. They look incredibly similar. Wonder why that is LOL!!! ;)

2010.4.2010 1:31

Originally posted by jjziman:
Yeah its a sad day for us Americans. We know who runs the country its not the elected officals that we the people voted in. Heck our elected officals dont even listen to us. Its all the corporations that are getting what they want.
Sadly, it _is_ the elected officials that make the decisions and they are just paid off by the lobbyists of the corporations. So most of them are basically just secretly working for them and only seem to listen every time they are up for re-election.

2110.4.2010 2:06

Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Bluedog, are you really that much of a moronic dumbass or are you really trying hard? ALL countries that sign onto the Interpol agreement agree to allow Interpol to operate in their country under international law as well as change the laws of the country to comply with international agreements. That you ignorant ass is in the agreement that you would know if you bothered to read it. And it is not abuse to call a moron a moron, and when someone intentionally screws with the name of a country just because they dont like the politics of that country, then how can it be abusive when the original idiotic moron was abusive in intentionally screwing it up? People like you who defend twits like that are sorta like the pot calling the kettle black when you whine about it instead of taking the fool to task that first did it. Oh and as for your stupid remark about shutting down Google...the French ALREADY DID!! The French have passed a national law that if ANY internet content infuses or disrupts the "purity of the French Language" then it is banned from coming into France by any means. It is already against the law to even mention the words "hotdog-hamburger-pepsi-coke-french bread-and a host of other words used all over the world today. Dont believe me you sorry fool? Then read it here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...podcasting.html or here http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2003/07/59674 or here http://www.france24.com/en/20100331-fran...french-language

So tell you what, you mouthy little twerp..when you finally grow up and grow a set as well as get a few pubic hairs so you stop showing your ignorance, then and MAYBE then your betters might just listen to what you have to say, until then go back and tell your mommy that both your bottom AND head are filled and need changed.
Idiot, seriously get a life. Your statement argues against itself. Anyways I better things to do with my life than debate irrelivent crap with you. You clearly do not understand statements being made by some people here. Go to bed child and let people continue their conversation.

2210.4.2010 5:35

One of the best ways for customers to force the media industry to maintain reasonable prices is to share products with friends and family. It's perfectly legal and good for heart and soul to watch a film or listen to music with a group of friends. The price of media will determine how readily people will bother to copy manually CDs and DVDs. Circles of aquaintance can be very large! So even if all the sharing sites are taken down, people will simply choose between sharing manually or buying lots of inexpensive media. When availability and price convenience reach the right point people will find it easier to buy than share. Until then the media industry has little choice in the matter! People are not as stupid and greedy as the corporations can be.

2310.4.2010 10:00

Whew Bluedog....seems you got taken to task by a person that seemingly knows more then you. Instead of attacking him like you did, maybe you should have just asked him why he posted that way?

2410.4.2010 11:20
Nezello
Inactive

spam edited by ddp

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Apr 2010 @ 14:21

2510.4.2010 13:30

Originally posted by omegaman7:
Never used Isohunt much anyway. Used to love mininova though. Such a shame about Torrentspy, and thepiratebay as well. There are other sites though. There always will be.
Probably shouldn't say this, but it's probably been said somewhere anyway:
Mininova...Mightynova...Hmmm. They look incredibly similar. Wonder why that is LOL!!! ;)
omegaman, I see that mightynova have a pretty bad rap online... do you know why, is it deserved? Suppose I could always go in Sandboxied or under a Linux OS.

Elsewhere, laughing my backside off at the French government's pathetic finger-in-the-dyke policies. What's so pure about a language adapted from Latin and only spoken by 20% of the country until a relatively short time ago? :D
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Apr 2010 @ 13:32

2610.4.2010 13:40

Bad rap? I was unaware of that. But they're not my one stop shop, if you will LOL! I actually use several. I just thought that it was interesting that they STRONGLY resemble Mininova. Probably the same designers ;)

2710.4.2010 15:59

Originally posted by mike.m:
First Pirate Bay, then Mininova, now Isohunt. What the hell is going on here? Now we're left with bad torrent sites. Hopefully one of the owners of these sites stands up and makes a come back. FIGHT THE POWER! :D
I know what you mean downloading "shearing" will soon be a thing of the passed
BUT what will happen to people like us using the site can we be prosecuted even if we use it for none profit home use

2810.4.2010 20:09

Originally posted by omegaman7:
Never used Isohunt much anyway. Used to love mininova though. Such a shame about Torrentspy, and thepiratebay as well. There are other sites though. There always will be.
Probably shouldn't say this, but it's probably been said somewhere anyway:
Mininova...Mightynova...Hmmm. They look incredibly similar. Wonder why that is LOL!!! ;)
Isohunt listed everything on Mininova, Pirate Bay and at least a dozen more. Maybe you should have taken advantage when you had the chance. ISO also listed each of the trackers that tracked the job. This would allow you to middleman between several trackers so you could bring back dead torrents from the grave.

I think they (ISO) have done their share. They can't stand up to the cartel. I haven't bought anything new from the 'cartel' in a few years. I do buy music from indies and small labels to support good work.

They may be down already. I just check a few things. They are listed but they are not in the database.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Apr 2010 @ 20:22

2910.4.2010 20:23

I support good work as well. I bought GTA IV, I plan on buying Avatar when it comes out on blu-ray, and of course I'll buy music too, if its worth my time. Most bands today sound either like a rip-off, or just don't sound worth buying. I think the industry doesn't understand. If something is worth buying most GOOD people will open up their wallet. Anydvd is the best decrypter I've ever used. Dvd rebuilder is the best software for converting Dvd's that I've ever used. They BOTH got their fair return from me :D


3010.4.2010 21:22
Zoolook
Unverified new user

Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Then read it here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...podcasting.html
Quote:
Terms including "email", "blog" and "fast-food" should all be banished from the language, according to French culture ministry chiefs.
So not banned then, just someone WANTS them to be banned.

Quote:
http://www.wired.com/culture/lifestyle/news/2003/07/59674
Quote:
The move to ban "e-mail" was announced last week
So not banned then...

Quote:
http://www.france24.com/en/20100331-france-abandons-online-chatting-tchatche-eblabla-francomot-academie-francaise-english-french-language
Quote:
France’s junior minister for cooperation and Francophonie awarded six students on Tuesday for their entries to ‘Francomot’, an online students-only competition to find the ideal replacements for popular English words in everyday French.
Yep, 3 for 3 in the NOT BANNED section... and even worse, you appear NOT to have read the articles and just gone with the sensationalist headlines.

3110.4.2010 21:37
Zoolook
Unverified new user

Here's my stance on torrent downloading... its perfectly legal... it only becomes ILLEGAL if downloading/uploading copyright material for which the UPLOADER does not have permission or other suitable rights to upload. Once the 4$$holes in charge understand that, then we can explore further.

Secondly, I was under the belief that indexing sites are NOT accountable for links leading to copyrighted material... else Google, Yahoo and all other search/indexing services should also be targetted... Note that Youtube DOES host the material rather then link to it!

Thirdly, I do not purchase any copyrighted material until I have seen/heard what I am going to fork my hard earned money on... have you ever tried to return a DVD to HMV because the film is plotless/badly acted/not exciting enough etc... Good luck on that. Without illegal downloads, I would simply wait till a film was shown on terrestrial, thus the recording industry would still not get my cash... with them, the recording industry has a distinct possibility of getting my cash... their choice!

Forth, and probably most important, I am willing to accept that downloading stuff without permission is MY RISK. Anyone who complains when the linking sites are removed/sanctioned/fined/whatever is, frankly, an idiot... get the point that downloading and uploading copyrighted material without permission is ILLEGAL... and you have no cause to complain when the service is... "suspended"!

3211.4.2010 4:54

Torrents are legal as it's simply a protocol that's it.

It's a bit like TV signals.

Index sites if linking to copyright files would be breaking the law as you can't allow coping or broadcasting of copyright files.

Just look on the back of any DVD or CD it's even written on the disk.

People are going to complain because they do also have stuff you couldn't get otherwise besides copyright files.

3311.4.2010 12:34

Originally posted by omegaman7:
I support good work as well. I bought GTA IV, I plan on buying Avatar when it comes out on blu-ray, and of course I'll buy music too, if its worth my time. Most bands today sound either like a rip-off, or just don't sound worth buying. I think the industry doesn't understand. If something is worth buying most GOOD people will open up their wallet. Anydvd is the best decrypter I've ever used. Dvd rebuilder is the best software for converting Dvd's that I've ever used. They BOTH got their fair return from me :D


Statistically, pirates purchase more of what they pirate than non pirates. I pump a good deal of money into the music industry but not one thin dime to the big guys except for concerts. I put concerts into a different category. If the fat cats are willing to get off their asses and perform I am willing to pay. I will not go to Robert Plant, U2, Kiss or 'The Boss' because of bad attitudes.

3411.4.2010 13:13
Arniceous
Inactive

SPAM removed

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Apr 2010 @ 14:43

3511.4.2010 14:33

Originally posted by Arniceous:
I THINK THIS SUMMARIZES IT
You lost me... Do you mean if you go to a top proxy site you will be eaten by a spider?

3612.4.2010 5:19

Will someone please tell me why everyone who publishes a Bible claim a copyright for the works? What is the court of competent juristiction for this matter?

3712.4.2010 9:49

Zoolook, you are mistaken. Daniel_1 got it right on the nose. Torrents ARE illegal when you are illegally downloading something that does not belong to you. It is only legal when you are downloading something in the public domain. So if you are downloading something your boss sent you to look at..fine. BUT if you are downloading the latest album or hot movie from hollywood, then sorry zoolook...you are illegal. Now being in that state you are subject to whatever laws your country has for or against this action. You are also subject to arrest by Interpol if they have signed onto the standard agreement as that allows another country to come after you for breaking it's laws for downloading illegal material. So it really does not matter one hoot what you think, but what the laws say. I mean get real child...how do you think for one second that the Pirate bay was put out of existence, or this case was brought against ISO hunt, or the russian sites get taken down almost as fast as they get put up?...all because of Interpol and the international copyright laws. Your refusal to understand this means that you will most likely be on the list of busted people at sometime in the future so be careful but let us know when you get busted so we can send you a few years supply of soap on a rope.

3812.4.2010 11:15

Originally posted by john_swan:
Will someone please tell me why everyone who publishes a Bible claim a copyright for the works? What is the court of competent juristiction for this matter?
The bible is in public domain.

3912.4.2010 11:34

Originally posted by Mez:
Originally posted by john_swan:
Will someone please tell me why everyone who publishes a Bible claim a copyright for the works? What is the court of competent juristiction for this matter?
The bible is in public domain.
Yes it is but dirvivtve works hold their own copy right.
===================
Torrentz still works so no real loss.You can enslave us to the corrupted rule of law, but you can not take way our freedoms.

4012.4.2010 11:37

Originally posted by DaCount:
Zoolook, you are mistaken. Daniel_1 got it right on the nose. Torrents ARE illegal when you are illegally downloading something that does not belong to you. It is only legal when you are downloading something in the public domain. So if you are downloading something your boss sent you to look at..fine. BUT if you are downloading the latest album or hot movie from hollywood, then sorry zoolook...you are illegal. Now being in that state you are subject to whatever laws your country has for or against this action. You are also subject to arrest by Interpol if they have signed onto the standard agreement as that allows another country to come after you for breaking it's laws for downloading illegal material. So it really does not matter one hoot what you think, but what the laws say. I mean get real child...how do you think for one second that the Pirate bay was put out of existence, or this case was brought against ISO hunt, or the russian sites get taken down almost as fast as they get put up?...all because of Interpol and the international copyright laws. Your refusal to understand this means that you will most likely be on the list of busted people at sometime in the future so be careful but let us know when you get busted so we can send you a few years supply of soap on a rope.
Sorry no anything that is copyright is protected from any and all distribution(or even copy these days) that is not allowed by the CP owner.

You can not legally download a digital copy from a unauthorized place of something you already own unless it is not copy righted.

4112.4.2010 12:32

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

You can not legally download a digital copy from a unauthorized place of something you already own unless it is not copy righted.
I did not know that. Are you sure? I am not all that surprised.

4212.4.2010 12:44
Paula_X
Inactive

you can't even legally copy something you have gone out and paid for .. not even for purely personal use..

greed.. pure and simple.. pay for nothing.. take everything for free.

4312.4.2010 12:55

Zippy, look at what I said and you will see it says the EXACT same thing you just got done saying. The only difference is that countries that signed onto the Interpol agreement have allowed other countries to come after anyone that downloads what they have copyrighted in their own country. That is how Microsoft is able to come after people in other countries different from the US and how the MPAA is able to come after people downloading movies via torrents and the RIAA is able to come after people downloading music via torrents. That is what took down PirateBay and that is what is forcing ISO Hunt to close. Anyone that thinks they cannot be found because they are using someone else's internet connection is too dumb to be around as when you log onto someone else's internet connection the computer makes a log complete with your specific ISP address leading right back to you if the person knows where in the logs to look. That is why I laugh at people who think that just because they know a little about hacking, they think they are suddenly invisible...right up to the time they hear the knock on the door and wonder how the heck they were found out while ignoring the trail they left right back to them.

Now you see why I dont mess about with torrents. Just too darn dangerous.

4412.4.2010 13:00

Um, Paula_X? In the US you are incorrect in your statement. The betamax decision of 1974 by the US Supreme Court does indeed allow you to make copies of what you own for your own personal use, you just cannot sell them or give them away. What the laws do is to make OWNING copyable programs illegal. IN short you can copy anything you legally own for personal use, you just cannot legally own the programs to do it. That way they are not stopping you from copying your personal items, just stopping you from getting the programs to allow you to do it. Twisted? You bet. Legal? Unquestionably. Devious and a spit in your face? Without a doubt. Can you change it? Not hardly.

4512.4.2010 13:05

Originally posted by DaCount:
Um, Paula_X? In the US you are incorrect in your statement. The betamax decision of 1974 by the US Supreme Court does indeed allow you to make copies of what you own for your own personal use, you just cannot sell them or give them away. What the laws do is to make OWNING copyable programs illegal. IN short you can copy anything you legally own for personal use, you just cannot legally own the programs to do it. That way they are not stopping you from copying your personal items, just stopping you from getting the programs to allow you to do it. Twisted? You bet. Legal? Unquestionably. Devious and a spit in your face? Without a doubt. Can you change it? Not hardly.
They have obviously made a distinction between making a copy and downloading one. The copying still holds true for most of the world.

4612.4.2010 13:27

just dont use public trackers.. go for a private trackers...

4712.4.2010 13:31

Originally posted by Paula_X:
you can't even legally copy something you have gone out and paid for .. not even for purely personal use..

greed.. pure and simple.. pay for nothing.. take everything for free.
We have purchased movies on VHS Tapes. We have purchased movies on DVDs. We have purchased movies on Blue Ray. I would like to register each of these movies into a database. When next generation of media comes out I would be happy to pay a reasonable upgrade fee to be able to use current format. I would prefer to download movies to a harddisk which could distribute information to TV.

4812.4.2010 13:43

Originally posted by Mez:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

You can not legally download a digital copy from a unauthorized place of something you already own unless it is not copy righted.
I did not know that. Are you sure? I am not all that surprised.
Copyright is pretty clear cut on the distribution aspect of it and the DMCA makes it harder to legally copy/backup the crap you own.

I can not support copy right as it is now as it makes the consumer criminal regardless of what they are doing, some people do not see the hill we are clinging too to not slide further into the abyss...... they want absolute protection of distribution and even copying which is outmoded and antiquated in these times.

----------------------
Dacount

To long didn't read, :P
I skimmed threw it though.

As far as I am concerned copyright has become a scoff law, they are focusing on all the wrong things with all the wrong mindsets.

You can not make copyright focus on copy and distribution in this day and age to many public rights are violated in carrying out copyright violation claims. What they should be focusing on is the profit derived from the flow of distribution. You lock up the profit motive to only licensed vendors and the copyright system is protected as much as it can possibly be while the public dose not lose the ability to receive and transmit information.

4912.4.2010 14:25

Originally posted by DaCount:
...IN short you can copy anything you legally own for personal use, you just cannot legally own the programs to do it....
That's news to me.

In Australia, in a similar vein, a test court case trying to make an ISP responsible for what their clients' downloaded was thrown out the other day. However, the government here insist on placing in a public filter along the lines of China or Iran... ostensibly to protect us from child pornography etc. I suspect, considering the learned public opposition, that it has more to do with perceived copyright infringement than anything.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Apr 2010 @ 14:28

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
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5012.4.2010 15:07

Jemborg...why do you think the MPAA and the RIAA have went to court so many times in the US to get copying programs removed from public purchase? Real Copy-DVD Shrink-DVD next Copy all have been tried in a court and some of them are no longer around. They have even went after Slysoft's AnyDVD and that is not even located in the US, but it is being brought before a judge to see if they can take it out. They will try anything they can to make sure you dont have the programs to copy anything, and then try and say with a straight face that they are not stopping you from copying as the US Betamax decision says you can

5112.4.2010 15:32

Originally posted by DaCount:
Jemborg...why do you think the MPAA and the RIAA have went to court so many times in the US to get copying programs removed from public purchase? Real Copy-DVD Shrink-DVD next Copy all have been tried in a court and some of them are no longer around. They have even went after Slysoft's AnyDVD and that is not even located in the US, but it is being brought before a judge to see if they can take it out. They will try anything they can to make sure you dont have the programs to copy anything, and then try and say with a straight face that they are not stopping you from copying as the US Betamax decision says you can
I'm sure your right... come to think of it DVDShrink was discontinued... {I still use it though but not for the initial backup}.

5212.4.2010 15:48

Dvd shrink is timeless. Once files have been decrypted, there are uses, that I have not seen in any other program. But I am more familiar with shrink, than a lot of other programs I use :p

Though I chiefly use Rebuilder :D

5312.4.2010 15:58

Originally posted by omegaman7:
Though I chiefly use Rebuilder :D
I must look into that one, cheers.

EDIT: Is that the BD Rebuilder? What version do you recommend mate?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 12 Apr 2010 @ 16:06

5412.4.2010 16:49

Originally posted by DaCount:
Jemborg...why do you think the MPAA and the RIAA have went to court so many times in the US to get copying programs removed from public purchase? Real Copy-DVD Shrink-DVD next Copy all have been tried in a court and some of them are no longer around. They have even went after Slysoft's AnyDVD and that is not even located in the US, but it is being brought before a judge to see if they can take it out. They will try anything they can to make sure you dont have the programs to copy anything, and then try and say with a straight face that they are not stopping you from copying as the US Betamax decision says you can

The spirit of copyright and fair use says you can make backups of what you own that is your right. But the letter of the if has been warped making it nearly impossible.

5512.4.2010 19:31

SCO claims ownership of UNIX copyrights. Novell claims ownership of UNIX copyrights. SCO claims ownership of work developed by IBM and contributed to Linux. Thousands of people that were never compensated have worked on UNIX. Why is UNIX not public domain software?

As long as there are legal schoolars this will never be resolved in a way that makes any sense.

5612.4.2010 23:07

Originally posted by DaCount:
Whew Bluedog....seems you got taken to task by a person that seemingly knows more then you. Instead of attacking him like you did, maybe you should have just asked him why he posted that way?
Nope ne where near it. He does not understand the strength and reach of interpol. Interpol can not force any country to change its laws, it can "request" (for choice of a better word) or discuss it but it is still upto the countries government. Even if he is corrct then they are not very effective and countries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol are part of Interpol and which ones of them do not have the same laws as the others, hint TPB.

His argument then is flawed and incorrect.

5713.4.2010 16:38

Originally posted by bluedogs:
Originally posted by DaCount:
Whew Bluedog....seems you got taken to task by a person that seemingly knows more then you. Instead of attacking him like you did, maybe you should have just asked him why he posted that way?
Nope ne where near it. He does not understand the strength and reach of interpol. Interpol can not force any country to change its laws, it can "request" (for choice of a better word) or discuss it but it is still upto the countries government. Even if he is corrct then they are not very effective and countries http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol are part of Interpol and which ones of them do not have the same laws as the others, hint TPB.

His argument then is flawed and incorrect.
I have not heard of one person being picked up by interpol for just illegal downloading of copyrighted materials.

5813.4.2010 18:33

Sorry Bluedog, you are the one factually incorrect. IN the Interpol agreement that each country signs it gives that international police unit the same arrest powers as wellas the same ability to operate as a police unit in the countries that sign it's agreement, and the recently signed agreement by US President Obama with Interpol proves same as it is a standard agreement and gives Interpol police powers inside the US. Here is a list of ALL member countries in the Interpol agreement that have granted Interpol police powers in that country http://www.interpol.int/Public/ICPO/Members/default.asp

So Bluedog, if your country is listed there, you have a major surprise as Interpol can walk up to your door and place you under arrest and hold you for between 24 hours to 5 days before having to release you. Want proof, here ya go directly from the Interpol Constitution and pay special attention to the term INTERNATIONAL POLICE ORGANIZATION!!!

About INTERPOL
INTERPOL is the world’s largest international police organization, with 188 member countries. Created in 1923, it facilitates cross-border police co-operation, and supports and assists all organizations, authorities and services whose mission is to prevent or combat international crime.

INTERPOL aims to facilitate international police co-operation even where diplomatic relations do not exist between particular countries. Action is taken within the limits of existing laws in different countries and in the spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. INTERPOL’s constitution prohibits ‘any intervention or activities of a political, military, religious or racial character.’

Or

Article 31

In order to further its aims, the Organization needs the constant and active co-operation of its Members, who should do all within their power which is compatible with the legislations of their countries to participate diligently in its activities.

Article 45

All bodies representing the countries mentioned in Appendix I shall be deemed to be Members of the Organization unless they declare through the appropriate governmental authority that they cannot accept this Constitution. Such a declaration should be made within six months of the date of the coming into force of the present Constitution.

So Bluedog, seems Daniel_1 WAS correct in his statements and you were not. Interpol even has the authority to come into ANY European Country and arrest any citizen for breaking the law of another country under authority granted it by the European Union. And in all parts of Asia, Interpol cracks down on fake products like copied movies-music-watches-purses-shoes-etc.

maybe next time you will take the advice of someone who seems to know a lot more then you do and listen for once. Daniel_1's statements have been validated and documented while you have proved nothing more then posting "no it aint cause I said it aint".

5913.4.2010 18:46

DaCount, interpol is an organization just like nato & the un is but does not have it's own police officers just as nato does not have it's own troops but troops contributed by member nations. as such interpol uses member police forces only in that member's country when doing an arrest for another country.

6014.4.2010 1:32

The recording industry should maintain a database with the current copyright holder contact information for every song or movie still protected by copyright. The recording industry should develop the technology to identify copyrighted works.

A website which distributes files should submit canidate files to a central clearing house operated at the expense of the recording industry. Once the file is approved for download it could be placed on the server for users to download (no peer to peer file transfers). The server should maintain records of all file transfers. You should have a way to contact copyright holder to request permission to use the copyrighted material.


6114.4.2010 1:36

Originally posted by DaCount:

Article 31

In order to further its aims, the Organization needs the constant and active co-operation of its Members, who should do all within their power which is compatible with the legislations of their countries to participate diligently in its activities.
This here proves my point.. they do not have the authoirty to create its own laws on an idividual country. It must be done within the legislation of that country. For example, If they want to arrest anyone in Sweden, I think off memory does not have the same intelectual property rights as say the US, therefore they must operate within the laws of Sweden.

The country I live does not allow anyone to be detained for more than 12 to 24 hours without charge, excluding terrorism and crimes of such nature. So the individual must be charged for something within the 12 to 24 hour time frame or must be released, if not that individual has right to to sue and charge those involved for false imprisonment, invansion of civil libities and more, it has happened here before and they succeded to sue for over $2 million of memory.

So they may have some powers yes but those powers are restricted by the laws of the individuals country. We have a thing here called a Constitution as well and differs from that of other coutries and one of our rights as a citizen is a person can not be charged for something that is not an offense according to our laws.

Also they do not have the right in this country to walk into anyones house out of the blue, they require something called "a warrant" regardless if its State, Federal and especially International Police. They must have the cooperation of at least Federal Police.

Every country does have different rules/laws and clearly the country that big mouth has does not have the protection that we have here.

I was more taking him to task on his attitude and lack of knowledge of foreign countries before ranting.

International Law 101, so to speak.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Apr 2010 @ 1:38

6214.4.2010 3:36

I get the impression that bluedogs is an Aussie like me... I have never heard of Interpol being involved in any copyright issue here, ever.

In fact all he wrote in his last post appears as correct to me. They cannot have precedence over any country's laws... there would be hell to pay. For example, extradition treaties have to be in place before any country, let alone Interpol, can request one, they have no power to order any country to do anything. Likewise, Interpol cannot act independently in any country without the cooperation of their authorities, that logically could be construed as a form of international spying.

I also applaud the restrained tone of Mr. Bluedogs above post... good on ya mate.


Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


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Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

6314.4.2010 5:37

Originally posted by Jemborg:
I get the impression that bluedogs is an Aussie like me... I have never heard of Interpol being involved in any copyright issue here, ever.

In fact all he wrote in his last post appears as correct to me. They cannot have precedence over any country's laws... there would be hell to pay. For example, extradition treaties have to be in place before any country, let alone Interpol, can request one, they have no power to order any country to do anything. Likewise, Interpol cannot act independently in any country without the cooperation of their authorities, that logically could be construed as a form of international spying.

I also applaud the restrained tone of Mr. Bluedogs above post... good on ya mate.
Yep I'm an Aussie mate through and through and proud to be one. I must make a correction to my earlier post where I stated

12 to 24 hours, it is actually 12 to 48 hours.

You are correct, the only time Interpol has arrested someone here in Australia are for major crimes, as stated earlier, and only with the co-operation with the Fed's and only with countries that have extraditions abilities and only if the charge matches that of our legislation and laws.. Prime example is Spain, they are on the Interpol list but yet were unable to touch Christopher Skase because the was no extradition treaty between us and them. If what the original loud mouth was saying then why didn't they step in and arrest him?..... Simple, they did not have the power to do it. Also take a look at iiNet, why didn't Interpol step in there? again they don't have the power and the our courts made that crystal clear.

So Daniel get your facts straight, go do some research before mouthing off.
DaCount I appreciate your input and being sensible about it, however you are not entirely correct, correct in some situations yes but not in this case of discussion. He clearly did not know more about it than I, just more about his region most likely but his comments were broad sweeping which makes him wrong. Actually your post and facts (Crhistopher Skase) proved my point.

And as Mez stated
Quote:
I have not heard of one person being picked up by interpol for just illegal downloading of copyrighted materials.
. Show me 10 cases where Interpol were involved.

Windows 7 HP 64x, AMD x6 1100T 3.3GHz, 8 Gig Ram,1 x LG DVD Burners, Gigabyte GTX560, 1 x OCZ 60GB SSD 1 x Seagate 1TB, 32" LCD Monitor

6414.4.2010 8:43

I say just give me one....

In half the world the downloading of copyrighted material is illegal but not a crime, such as driving slightly over the speed limit. That is changing.

To have search and seizure you need to be committing a serious enough crime to warrant thousands of dollars of expense. You either need to be selling large quantities of copyrighted goods or more likely, your computer is infested with a botnet that did something very illegal. If your computer was part of an attack of the Pentagon, Homeland security will bust down your door handcuff you that remove all your computers and disks. My son knew someone that had that happen to him. He never did find out what happened. Since the break in occurred a few weeks after the attack I suspect one of their computers was in the attack. They were never charged with anything but never got back anything. When they made an inquiry they were told in was a national security issue.

There have been AD members that had this happen to them. One had a large quantity of copyrighted material on his computer. He will be going to court soon.

DDP is right as usual, there are no interpol police.

DaCount, you are very confused but you think you know more that the rest of us.

6514.4.2010 10:06

Originally posted by Mez:
I say just give me one....

In half the world the downloading of copyrighted material is illegal but not a crime, such as driving slightly over the speed limit. That is changing.

To have search and seizure you need to be committing a serious enough crime to warrant thousands of dollars of expense. You either need to be selling large quantities of copyrighted goods or more likely, your computer is infested with a botnet that did something very illegal. If your computer was part of an attack of the Pentagon, Homeland security will bust down your door handcuff you that remove all your computers and disks. My son knew someone that had that happen to him. He never did find out what happened. Since the break in occurred a few weeks after the attack I suspect one of their computers was in the attack. They were never charged with anything but never got back anything. When they made an inquiry they were told in was a national security issue.

There have been AD members that had this happen to them. One had a large quantity of copyrighted material on his computer. He will be going to court soon.

DDP is right as usual, there are no interpol police.

DaCount, you are very confused but you think you know more that the rest of us.
Its got more to do with scapegoating and finding someone to parade in front of a judge.
as far as I am concerned copyright that focuses on distribution and copies is nothing more than building a gold paved road to fascism.

6614.4.2010 10:40

Originally posted by bluedogs:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
I get the impression that bluedogs is an Aussie like me... I have never heard of Interpol being involved in any copyright issue here, ever.

In fact all he wrote in his last post appears as correct to me. They cannot have precedence over any country's laws... there would be hell to pay. For example, extradition treaties have to be in place before any country, let alone Interpol, can request one, they have no power to order any country to do anything. Likewise, Interpol cannot act independently in any country without the cooperation of their authorities, that logically could be construed as a form of international spying.

I also applaud the restrained tone of Mr. Bluedogs above post... good on ya mate.
Yep I'm an Aussie mate through and through and proud to be one.
Likewise.

I too must make a correction to my earlier post. I meant to write...

"...Likewise, Interpol cannot act independently in any country without the cooperation of their authorities, otherwise that, logically, could be construed as a form of international spying."

Skase was a bastard hey? It's astonishing that we don't have an extradition treaty with Spain, imo.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


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6714.4.2010 11:33

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

Its got more to do with scapegoating and finding someone to parade in front of a judge.
as far as I am concerned copyright that focuses on distribution and copies is nothing more than building a gold paved road to fascism.
No, Zippy you are off the mark this time, not scapegoating thing it is low hanging fruit thing. Obama would not be in the White House had it not been for the media. This is political reality. Because the computer was a national security issue, Homeland security could hack the computer legally. Once inside, the White House obviously has directed at least HLS to check for other law breaking issues. It would be safe to conclude all US agencies have that same direction. They would also be looking for kiddie porn and any terrorist information files urls in the history etc. Just like if a cop pulls your car over they are looking in your car for anything that would allow them to search your car. That is their job and is not political.

6814.4.2010 12:03

Originally posted by Mez:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

Its got more to do with scapegoating and finding someone to parade in front of a judge.
as far as I am concerned copyright that focuses on distribution and copies is nothing more than building a gold paved road to fascism.
No, Zippy you are off the mark this time, not scapegoating thing it is low hanging fruit thing. Obama would not be in the White House had it not been for the media. This is political reality. Because the computer was a national security issue, Homeland security could hack the computer legally. Once inside, the White House obviously has directed at least HLS to check for other law breaking issues. It would be safe to conclude all US agencies have that same direction. They would also be looking for kiddie porn and any terrorist information files urls in the history etc. Just like if a cop pulls your car over they are looking in your car for anything that would allow them to search your car. That is their job and is not political.

Scapegoating and low hanging fruit and the the same IMO, both are used as a easy way to pander to the public at large. Though I suppose scapegoat would be less grammatically correct


I dunno I was all for McCain until I realized the republic party made him into a meat puppet and they they brought out the dizt, Then I was for Ron Paul untill logic told me the lesser of evils needs to be selected and fell into the either/or of lesser choseable choices.

Obama won in part because he had a better writer and orator skill(and he was not bush or a reaper) and the 2 party system only allows the public to only chose one of their hand picked and ripened meat puppets.

Its a shame the American populace dose not care much anymore as the 2 parties have destroyed the county by making higher orifice a noble class of aristocracy thats running the country into the ground.

Copyright is huge business and thus its onwer conclomerants has their tentacles up the combined anus's of both the dims and the reapers.

6914.4.2010 13:08

The media shifted from doing its own policing to spending a huge chunk of money to get laws changed through out the world. Then they can do not have to do anything. They assume they will recoup their money because of the massive rise of sales due to the end of piracy. The fools do not understand the law of supply and demand. Persons are willing to download something for free that they would not pay a dime for let alone over a dollar a tune. They might find out they will have less sales because free downloading is a form of advertisement.

7014.4.2010 17:22

Originally posted by Mez:
The media shifted from doing its own policing to spending a huge chunk of money to get laws changed through out the world. Then they can do not have to do anything. They assume they will recoup their money because of the massive rise of sales due to the end of piracy. The fools do not understand the law of supply and demand. Persons are willing to download something for free that they would not pay a dime for let alone over a dollar a tune. They might find out they will have less sales because free downloading is a form of advertisement.


Well media and its subsect news found out 10ish years ago that enhanced news (IE entertainment news) makes them more money. Add to it the slow progression to a corporate favoring democracy that supports money over law the US has already become a 2nd world nation, the masses will wake up to figure it out in 10-50 years down the line..

7115.4.2010 0:21

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
...the masses will wake up to figure it out in 10-50 years down the line..
I enjoy your frankness Zip.

But in the 21st Century in a country where over 50% of the population are Creationists, where a significant number of the lauded Founding Fathers were openly scornful of religion, even Christianity, theologians and probably atheist judging by their private correspondence... I don't hold out much hope for that.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Apr 2010 @ 0:22

7215.4.2010 9:23

Bluedog, you are completely hopeless and without a clue. You claim that no one has been arrested for illegal downloading? REALLY Bluedog? Then care to explain that to the people who were arrested and charged with illegal downloading...ARRESTED BY INTERPOL!! With more arrests to come from many different countries who had citizens who were members?? You remember the name...the site was called OINK

http://www.nme.com/news/tabloid-hell/31992
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9067/oink_t...sers_continues/

"OiNK was best known for its pre-release albums, with more than 60 major album releases having been leaked on OiNK so far this year. According to the IFP, this made it the primary source worldwide for illegal pre-release music."

Whoops Bluedog, this says that you are NOT being truthful in your claims...and in fact it clearly states you have no idea what the heck your talking about. In police circles an according to law (check with your local department if you want to be embarrassed even more then you are now) The officer that started the investigation is classified as the "arresting officer" and is the one that must make the arrest! And if you will read the two articles, you will see that servers were shut down and people were arrested in both the US and Amsterdam, yet the people who filed the complaint were in England. Now since English police do not and cannot make arrests outside of their country, the only other people who DO have the authority to make arrests in any country that has signed onto the agreement is ...hmmmm Can it be INTERPOL?? Check with the Amsterdam Police department and you will find much to your shock and a much needed reality wake up call, that the police that made the arrest in both Amsterdam and Middleburry Ohio in the US were none other then agents from INTERPOL at the behest of British copyright holders. Just as I have been trying to tell you that they could and you just refused to listen, sort of like the boy who cried wolf. Only in this case you are the boy crying wolf.



You may now remove your foot from your mouth and please dont make yourself look any more foolish by trying to spin this or claim it didnt happen as the links clearly show it did.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Apr 2010 @ 9:24

7315.4.2010 9:43

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
...the masses will wake up to figure it out in 10-50 years down the line..
I enjoy your frankness Zip.

But in the 21st Century in a country where over 50% of the population are Creationists, where a significant number of the lauded Founding Fathers were openly scornful of religion, even Christianity, theologians and probably atheist judging by their private correspondence... I don't hold out much hope for that.
It helps I talk before I think sometimes ^_~

I see religion and faith as separate things, faith is what you do and believe, religion is a "job" that too many people do from "9 to 5".

Religion like any functioning human mobbing/grouping will look out for its best interests over that of the public and the nations.

But all in all what we have in the US is a loss of community and responsibility, as big cities and urban areas spread we no longer help each other and leach from all we can, (it started in the 80s when saint ronny was running things), and this goes right to the core of modern business and politics, as both are out to get as much from the public as they can before they died or jailed.

7415.4.2010 14:40

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
...the masses will wake up to figure it out in 10-50 years down the line..
I enjoy your frankness Zip.

But in the 21st Century in a country where over 50% of the population are Creationists, where a significant number of the lauded Founding Fathers were openly scornful of religion, even Christianity, theologians and probably atheist judging by their private correspondence... I don't hold out much hope for that.
It helps I talk before I think sometimes ^_~

I see religion and faith as separate things, faith is what you do and believe, religion is a "job" that too many people do from "9 to 5".

Religion like any functioning human mobbing/grouping will look out for its best interests over that of the public and the nations.

But all in all what we have in the US is a loss of community and responsibility, as big cities and urban areas spread we no longer help each other and leach from all we can, (it started in the 80s when saint ronny was running things), and this goes right to the core of modern business and politics, as both are out to get as much from the public as they can before they died or jailed.
I don't disagree with you except that... religion needs faith... faith (belief without evidence) is vastly overrated.

And that it is seriously blighting an otherwise brilliant nation.

7515.4.2010 15:50

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
...the masses will wake up to figure it out in 10-50 years down the line..
I enjoy your frankness Zip.

But in the 21st Century in a country where over 50% of the population are Creationists, where a significant number of the lauded Founding Fathers were openly scornful of religion, even Christianity, theologians and probably atheist judging by their private correspondence... I don't hold out much hope for that.
It helps I talk before I think sometimes ^_~

I see religion and faith as separate things, faith is what you do and believe, religion is a "job" that too many people do from "9 to 5".

Religion like any functioning human mobbing/grouping will look out for its best interests over that of the public and the nations.

But all in all what we have in the US is a loss of community and responsibility, as big cities and urban areas spread we no longer help each other and leach from all we can, (it started in the 80s when saint ronny was running things), and this goes right to the core of modern business and politics, as both are out to get as much from the public as they can before they died or jailed.
I don't disagree with you except that... religion needs faith... faith (belief without evidence) is vastly overrated.

And that it is seriously blighting an otherwise brilliant nation.
True but there is a slight difference in spirituality IE faith were you are not chained and bound to the polishly assumed and well crafted embodiment one of the many different religion's. *IE religion is ran by mob rule and tends to push its members in odd directions*.

Now is religion evil? Is that where my rant is going? No far from it, it is human and no better or worse than anything else we do but I just find it inhumble,prideful and divisive more often than not. But like many things mob ran people are dumb, arrogant and ignorant while the person, the individual is rather smart on some if not most things.

7615.4.2010 17:08

Yes, it's all fun and games till someone gets hurt...

Steven Weinberg, Nobel Laureate: "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, it takes religion."

EDIT: I re-edited the rest out because I went further off-topic.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 15 Apr 2010 @ 19:20

7715.4.2010 17:19

lets stay on topic please.

7815.4.2010 18:05

Thanks ddp, I would hate to have to destroy Jemborgs argument with the simple fact that Jefferson held religious services in the Capitol and according to his own papers at Monticello, clearly state he was an avowed christian. and helped write the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence based on Christian Values, the same things we now say are the law of the land.


So If jemborg wants to be destroyed in this, please allow him to star a thread, just not let it continue here.

7915.4.2010 19:22

Hahah, you are a classic DaCount.

Still, fair enough mod. I'll re-edit that post.

8016.4.2010 18:31

Originally posted by DaCount:
Bluedog, you are completely hopeless and without a clue. You claim that no one has been arrested for illegal downloading? REALLY Bluedog? Then care to explain that to the people who were arrested and charged with illegal downloading...ARRESTED BY INTERPOL!! With more arrests to come from many different countries who had citizens who were members?? You remember the name...the site was called OINK

http://www.nme.com/news/tabloid-hell/31992
http://www.zeropaid.com/news/9067/oink_t...sers_continues/

"OiNK was best known for its pre-release albums, with more than 60 major album releases having been leaked on OiNK so far this year. According to the IFP, this made it the primary source worldwide for illegal pre-release music."
First

Again DaCount, you idiot, I quote article

Interpol help leads to arrest
Cleveland police worked with Interpol in the raid
coordinated by Interpol
British police arrested

So moron, Interpol did not make any arrests, did not shut down anything as clearly stated, that was done by local law enforcement officer with the help of Interpol. Read you own links before quoting idiot.


Originally posted by DaCount:
Whoops Bluedog, this says that you are NOT being truthful in your claims...and in fact it clearly states you have no idea what the heck your talking about. In police circles an according to law (check with your local department if you want to be embarrassed even more then you are now) The officer that started the investigation is classified as the "arresting officer" and is the one that must make the arrest! And if you will read the two articles, you will see that servers were shut down and people were arrested in both the US and Amsterdam, yet the people who filed the complaint were in England. Now since English police do not and cannot make arrests outside of their country, the only other people who DO have the authority to make arrests in any country that has signed onto the agreement is ...hmmmm Can it be INTERPOL?? Check with the Amsterdam Police department and you will find much to your shock and a much needed reality wake up call, that the police that made the arrest in both Amsterdam and Middleburry Ohio in the US were none other then agents from INTERPOL at the behest of British copyright holders. Just as I have been trying to tell you that they could and you just refused to listen, sort of like the boy who cried wolf. Only in this case you are the boy crying wolf..
Again read above, local law enforcement officers done the job stupid it staes it clearly.

Originally posted by DaCount:
You may now remove your foot from your mouth and please dont make yourself look any more foolish by trying to spin this or claim it didnt happen as the links clearly show it did.
No need I was correct I believe it is you that needs to remove ones foot as you keep helping me prove my point thank you. Links did clearly show that, again for the slow to learn, local law enforcement officers done the raid and arrests using information supplied by Interpol. Let me say that again a little slower for you. Oh yeah and for your information

No where in those articles does it stae that Interpol has arrested anyone you moron. Man people like you need to turn off your computer and take it to the tip. You come in spruking unfounded rubbish and when you do try to provide proof for your argument you actually supply information that supports the other person........ you idiot.

Interpol did not arrest anyone, local law enforcement officers did using information supplied by Interpol.

Man gain some intelligence and read your sources ffs before you post again.

Seriously mate, you are probably a really nice guy and it is possible that we could get along in real life but seriously mate quit while the embarresment is yet to hit. You are not helping your own argument.

8116.4.2010 22:17

Originally posted by bluedogs:
Seriously mate, you are probably a really nice guy and it is possible that we could get along in real life but seriously mate quit while the embarrassment is yet to hit. You are not helping your own argument.
Dunno Blue, judging by the last statement to me... I'd say that he was immune to evidence... or self-reflection/embarrassment.

His insistence in the face of logic (and even his own quotes) in a "UN World Police" type scenario and his baiting willingness to jump into a god-bothering argument with me suggest a few clues as to his mindset.

I'm gonna miss Isohunt. Anybody got any clues as to why it didn't appear in places like Torrenz.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Apr 2010 @ 22:21

8216.4.2010 22:25

Supernova is running again believe it or not

8316.4.2010 22:28

Give it up Bluedog and Jemborg, neither of you have any iota of what your talking about and both of you have been proven to be posting only so you can read your words. The facts are the facts and no matter if you like em or not, that does not change a darn thing. Oh and you two? Please take a look at the Interpol site...THEY call themselves the world police, not me. You two would have known that if you had actually done something foreign to you instead of shoving your foot in your mouths yet again, and that is actually LOOK at the website listed before talking about it.


So on second thought, keep posting. both of you are showing how little you actually know with every post. So if you wish to continue to make yourselves look even more foolish then you already have, please continue posting. And pretty soon no one will believe you if you say the sky is blue on a sunny day, as to make sure they will go outside and look.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Apr 2010 @ 22:31

8416.4.2010 22:29

Originally posted by bluedogs:
Supernova is running again believe it or not
Cheers :D

8516.4.2010 22:57

Ur welcome

I did read and stand by my words, did you read it? obviously not

Please show me where it states that Interpol can walk into any house and detain the residents for any set period without the approval of that countries expressed permission and without reason.

Yes THEY call themselves the World Police... whats ya point.

From their website

INTERPOL is the world’s largest international police organization, with 188 member countries. Created in 1923, it facilitates cross-border police co-operation, and supports and assists all organizations, authorities and services whose mission is to prevent or combat international crime.

Notice "supports and assists all organizations, authorities and services whose mission is to prevent or combat international crime."

INTERPOL aims to facilitate international police co-operation even where diplomatic relations do not exist between particular countries. Action is taken within the limits of existing laws in different countries and in the spirit of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. INTERPOL’s constitution prohibits ‘any intervention or activities of a political, military, religious or racial character.’

Notice this "Action is taken within the limits of existing laws in different countries"

Even notice this "INTERPOL’s constitution prohibits ‘any intervention or activities of a political, military, religious or racial character.’

Now maybe this country might be a little backward but our political structure creates the majority of our laws, therefore it is against the Interpol Constitution prohibits them from any intervention.

And "The NCB is the designated contact point for the General Secretariat, regional offices and other member countries requiring assistance with overseas investigations and the location and apprehension of fugitives. "

Notice "requiring assistance"

Now what you are saying maybe correct for your country and others it is not the case here.

Lastly

Criminal intelligence analysis is recognized by the law enforcement community as a valuable tool, helping to provide timely warning of threats and operational police activities. INTERPOL contributes to investigations by assisting officers working at the General Secretariat and in member countries with research and analysis on crime trends and with training courses in criminal analysis techniques.




BITE ME

8617.4.2010 6:47

Re this tit for tat debate on Interpol, all i have to offer is this ~ http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinio...3-80291137.html

There's a Whitehouse website detailing many other Executive Orders that Obama (and previous Presidents) sign (far too frequently, Exec Orders are supposed to be used sparingly) but i will leave it there, we don't do Politics at Afterdawn, suffice it to say that the Interpol Exec Order makes for interesting reading.

8717.4.2010 11:25

That's interesting Creaky.

I see that was started by Ronnie Reagan who also wrote... "This designation is not intended to abridge in any respect the privileges, exemptions or immunities which such organization may have acquired or may acquire by international agreement or by Congressional action."

Why did Ronnie start that ball rolling do you think?

This still does not apply to my country. So no UN conspiracy here anyway.

@ Bluedogs... Demonoid is up again too.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Apr 2010 @ 11:27

8817.4.2010 18:49

Sweet Demonoid is back, been waiting for that. Don't forget newtorrents.info

8918.4.2010 0:41

Originally posted by bluedogs:
Sweet Demonoid is back, been waiting for that. Don't forget newtorrents.info
Nice one. Thanks again mate.

9018.4.2010 8:36

How Typical of Bluedog to use a childish taunt when he was proven wrong. Instead of placing words in my mouth and making claims that I never made, he should have read the links to the website I gave him and if so he would have seen that this was a copy and paste directly from the sites so that any claims made that he did not agree with came from the sites themselves. Thus showing that instead of talking about what the people can do, he runs this into the conspiracy sections of reality of saying they cannot and not proving it. Bluedog also states that Intepol cannot arrest someone. Really? Then please explain just how Timothy Geoffrey Lee was arrested by Interpol Agents and Indonesian police on January 11, 2010 when Lee's only criminal activity had been in Australia and not in Indonesia according to Indonesian Authorities? In short Bluedog, the man had broken NO Indonesian laws what-so-ever, and yet he was arrested for a crime he committed in Australia by Indonesian police and Interpol Agents. And especially since Indonesia has no extradition agreement with Australia, yet the Indonesian authorities are working to give Mr.Lee to Interpol agents to return him back to Australia for prosecution. http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_asi...1117800572.html Yet even more proof that Bluedog knows nothing about this subject and is only posting to see his words in print.




As for you Jemborg...your ignorance about the US is clearly evident. So Mr.Expert...care to explain where exactly you received the quotes you misused from the founding fathers? Or seem to forget that the Separation of Church and State does not legally exist as there is no place in the Constitution where that phrase is ever used? Or the simple fact that the Constitution was ratified in May of 1787 and the very FIRST mention of this myth was in a letter to the baptist leaders from Jefferson in 1802...a full 15 years later! And care to mention exactly WHAT Congress brought this up for a vote and then sent it out to the states for ratification as is the ONLY way to get the Constitution amended as per the Constitution itself? Over 20,000 have been tried and less then 30 have been approved. Or that there were only two Deists and one Atheist in the whole group that signed the Dec of Independence? The rest were made up of Christians and Baptists and this is documented? Or the ending of the Constitution clearly saying "In the Year of our Lord" which was a Christian Religious greeting and salutation? The only one here that is a "classic" Jemborg is you and your obvious lack of an education. So please start another thread dealing with this subject and I will destroy you so completely on it that the only thing left will be the bitter taste in your mouth left over from your ashes.

9118.4.2010 11:26

Originally posted by DaCount:
How Typical of Bluedog to use a childish taunt when he was proven wrong. Instead of placing words in my mouth and making claims that I never made, he should have read the links to the website I gave him and if so he would have seen that this was a copy and paste directly from the sites so that any claims made that he did not agree with came from the sites themselves. Thus showing that instead of talking about what the people can do, he runs this into the conspiracy sections of reality of saying they cannot and not proving it. Bluedog also states that Intepol cannot arrest someone. Really? Then please explain just how Timothy Geoffrey Lee was arrested by Interpol Agents and Indonesian police on January 11, 2010 when Lee's only criminal activity had been in Australia and not in Indonesia according to Indonesian Authorities? In short Bluedog, the man had broken NO Indonesian laws what-so-ever, and yet he was arrested for a crime he committed in Australia by Indonesian police and Interpol Agents. And especially since Indonesia has no extradition agreement with Australia, yet the Indonesian authorities are working to give Mr.Lee to Interpol agents to return him back to Australia for prosecution. http://english.ntdtv.com/ntdtv_en/ns_asi...1117800572.html Yet even more proof that Bluedog knows nothing about this subject and is only posting to see his words in print.




As for you Jemborg...your ignorance about the US is clearly evident. So Mr.Expert...care to explain where exactly you received the quotes you misused from the founding fathers? Or seem to forget that the Separation of Church and State does not legally exist as there is no place in the Constitution where that phrase is ever used? Or the simple fact that the Constitution was ratified in May of 1787 and the very FIRST mention of this myth was in a letter to the baptist leaders from Jefferson in 1802...a full 15 years later! And care to mention exactly WHAT Congress brought this up for a vote and then sent it out to the states for ratification as is the ONLY way to get the Constitution amended as per the Constitution itself? Over 20,000 have been tried and less then 30 have been approved. Or that there were only two Deists and one Atheist in the whole group that signed the Dec of Independence? The rest were made up of Christians and Baptists and this is documented? Or the ending of the Constitution clearly saying "In the Year of our Lord" which was a Christian Religious greeting and salutation? The only one here that is a "classic" Jemborg is you and your obvious lack of an education. So please start another thread dealing with this subject and I will destroy you so completely on it that the only thing left will be the bitter taste in your mouth left over from your ashes.
Its called pandering since athieries are a large voting block also FYI the founding fathers were deists or as we call them today agnostic, FYI you can go to church and be an active member and still be agnostic, since church in those days where not only a social club but the hub of a community.

The founding fathers new of the evils of the church when they are allowed to much power over a region so they sought to divest the church from government but more importantly they did not want government enforcing religion upon the populace.

9218.4.2010 15:21

You can't argue with a sick mind Zip... nice try tho.

:)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Apr 2010 @ 15:21

9318.4.2010 16:38

Originally posted by Jemborg:
You can't argue with a sick mind Zip... nice try tho.

:)
I am a sick mind dear *lick lick lick*

9418.4.2010 18:45

@Zippy

Eeewww... :D

Don't I know it. re:Xpadder

:P

Cheers.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Apr 2010 @ 18:46

9519.4.2010 4:19

Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Why are you crying? ANY country can be investigated as long as they are signed members of Interpol. The faster you get used to that idea the better off you will be. As such it makes no difference where you are, if your country is signed onto Interpol, they can make you rewrite your laws and prosecute you for downloading as well. Oh and BTW, to the arsehole who used the term "Amerika" get over yourself n00b, Interpol is a EUROPEAN idea...not American. Stupid moron!
Interpol is the UK's version of the FBI.

And Interpol or the FBI wouldn't be allowed to case anyone outside their countries boarders unless they have asked a court order to do so.

Otherwise you'd have FBI casing people in the UK or Europe or other countries and it doesn't work like that, because the FBI wouldn't be working within any US laws while in the UK.

They can goto the UK and would have to work with UK police before they could do anything in terms of casing someone.

Because what your saying is that the Australian Federal Police could goto the USA case you and everything would be perfectly fine because Australia would be signed up to Interpol, and I'm sure the FBI would be happy to let that happen with-in the USA.

The Israeli police that killed that terrorist or narzi party member show just how wrong you are, as the Australian government isn't happy about them using fake Australian passports to get into Dubai, they would be signed up Interpol countries.

No country can force another country to change it's laws just because they are signed up to Interpol, it's a UK police force not a political policy.

Normally laws get changed if 2 countries are trying to do a free trade agreement.

9619.4.2010 6:03

I said they can not do it here in Australia, I didn't say Amerika (notice the pun toward Danial_1) ;)

I did read them and again it does not state that Interpol made the arrest it said it aided in the arrest. Show me where it states Interpol Police made the arrests!

Interpol did not make the arrest. Indonesian Police made the arrest with the assistance of Interpol and AFP Also this was to do with drugs that he had in his possesion while in Australia so there was an arrest warrant for him. Yes there may not be an agreement for extradition between us but any country can agree to an extrodition even if one does not exist. The Indonesian Police decided of their own accord (diplomacy and in the interest of its national security) to help but they could have refused. I quote from your link

[Sustina, Bali Police Chief]:
"The suspect, in Australia, was in possession of prohibited drugs. In cooperation with the Australian Federal Police, they have requested in November 2009 that we [b]help to complete the investigation and arrest the suspect[/b]. We did an investigation, and proved that the suspect was in Bali and arrested him."

Notice we investigated, found him and arrested him..... not Interpol or AFP arrested him... Indonesian police arrested him.

Explain Christopher Skase then! you can't can you, because you have no idea. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Skase

Dude seriously give me a link backing the Daniel_1 and your posts that supports these statements

Daniel_1 As such it makes no difference where you are, if your country is signed onto Interpol, they can make you rewrite your laws

and

as well as change the laws of the country to comply with international agreements.


Your own statement

Interpol can walk up to your door and place you under arrest and hold you for between 24 hours to 5 days before having to release you.

The links clearly need to show that they are correct and that Interpol can act independantly of local law enforcement officers here in Australia.

I have read your links several times and none state that Interpol has made the arrest,

British police - yes,
Indonesian police - yes,
Netherlands police - yes...... but
NONE state that Interpol made the arrests.

You just don't get it do you.

The World does not revolve around the US laws mate. Each country has it's own laws and are created by that coutries parliment or whatever does it, here in Australia it's the Government.

Again give me links that prove that basically Interpol has free reign in Australia to create, amend and enforce any laws that it sees fit. Please for the love of all that is holy do it because at the moment all you keep giving are links to is irrelivent material that either

a) Supports what I am saying or
b) Has nothing to do with Australia

If you can do that then please while you are at it then explain why Interpol could not touch Christopher Skase because there are thousands of people here who would love to know why because they lost everything because of him and in many cases people commited suicide because of him. They chased him for 10 years and got nothing, WHERE WAS INTERPOL THEN you mental

Until then shut up, you have no idea, you have no counterpoint to my statement, you keep giving me evidence thats supports me and say "here I told you you were wrong." Tip, to prove a person wrong the evidence must show contrary to theirs, hence wrong, yours shows I am right. I hope for the sake of America that you are not into politics or law because if you are I pitty the USA.

Oh yeah btw

Australia's involvement in Interpol
http://www.uplink.com.au/lawlibrary/Documents/Docs/Doc54.html

Australian Federal Police
http://www.afp.gov.au/about/publications...9/internat.html

Interpol
http://www.interpol.int/public/icpo/default.asp

Interpol in the US (which clearly states "Interpol has no police force that conducts investigations and makes arrests"
http://obtainingforeignevidence.blogspot...t-is-legal.html but hey thats the USA who cares, I am talking Australia, right.

Interpol alert
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/na...r-1225851519329 notice they request

Interpol seeks waiver of Australian visa for its cops (pay attention to paragraph 3)
http://www.visabureau.com/australia/news...r-its-cops.aspx in case you missed it. Interpol Secretary-General Ronald K. Noble "We don't come to a country unless we are asked to go. If we are asked to go in an emergency, you want us to go as fast as possible," he said

Again for the slow to learn, as stated by the Interpol Secretary-General (basically the head of Interpol http://www.interpol.int/Public/icpo/governance/sg/default.asp)

"We don't come to a country unless we are asked to go."

So there is just some info I raked up in 5 or 10 minutes and didn't look really hard.

Go change ya nappy, go to bed and leave running the world to professionals and leave quoting facts to grown ups because clearly you are unable to do so.

9719.4.2010 18:00

didn't i say some of that further up the thread?

9819.4.2010 19:32

Yes ddp, you did and so has many others but clearly some individuals do not listen nor understand nor read post properly when posting. Some even link facts against their own claims and believe it supports their own. The people are commonly refered to as morons. I prefer not to start name calling unless the person is being a moron then I will call it as I see it. This guy, DaCount, in this case is an idiot/moron. At least Daniel_1 learnt to shut his trap.

DaCount for some reason believes that whatever Daniel_1 states is gospel because clearly he can not hold any valid argument with any kind of valid or vague truth.

9920.4.2010 13:34

Sorry Bluedog, yet again you are making my case, I have clearly stated that the countries must have signed the Interpol agreement. SO thank you for proving what I said was correct and what you said was incorrect.

10020.4.2010 20:10

Originally posted by DaCount:
Sorry Bluedog, yet again you are making my case, I have clearly stated that the countries must have signed the Interpol agreement. SO thank you for proving what I said was correct and what you said was incorrect.
Must have signed the Interpol agreement... for what?

10121.4.2010 6:58

I can't believe a thread about ISO HUNT can inspire peeps to write essays. Public trackers suck so who cares if they go down including the most heavily watched piratebay. Protect yourself a little better by using newsgroups or a solid private tracker.


No time for Leap frog!!!

10221.4.2010 9:25

i cant beleive how much argueing about interpol and politics took place in this thread.its suppose to be about isohunt being taken down.personally i have never used isohunt so i dont know if it was anygood or not & i dont like the thought of heaps of torrent sites being taken down.I've personally had no dealings with interpol and cant be bothered reading all the links.All i know about interpol is there a crime fighting organisation worldwide.


custom built gaming pc from early 2010,ps2 with 15 games all original,ps3 500gbs with 5 games all original,yamaha amp and 5.1channel surround sound speakers,46inch sony lcd smart tv.

10321.4.2010 9:28

I had posted one simple link about Obama's Excutive Order regarding Interpol, which was my polite attempt at hinting at DaCount and bluedogs to give it a rest, ddp also requested the thread stays on topic, yet they have continued to wobble on ad finitum.

DaCount / bluedogs - last request to keep on topic..




Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***

10421.4.2010 10:50

Originally posted by creaky:
I had posted one simple link about Obama's Excutive Order regarding Interpol, which was my polite attempt at hinting at DaCount and bluedogs to give it a rest, ddp also requested the thread stays on topic, yet they have continued to wobble on ad finitum.

DaCount / bluedogs - last request to keep on topic..
Give a troll a fish he will complain a bit, teach a troll to fish and the place will be stunk up.

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.

---
Check out my crappy creations
http://zippydsmlee.deviantart.com/

10522.4.2010 0:38

Originally posted by creaky:
I had posted one simple link about Obama's Excutive Order regarding Interpol,...

Yes, and I asked you a question regarding it. :D

DaCount is obviously insane and Bluedogs is mad reasoning with him.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2010 @ 0:39

10622.4.2010 1:05

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by creaky:
I had posted one simple link about Obama's Excutive Order regarding Interpol,...

Yes, and I asked you a question regarding it. :D

DaCount is obviously insane and Bluedogs is mad reasoning with him.
We were talking Australia, US has nothing to do with Australia

Yeah I have given up ya can't reason with stupidity

10722.4.2010 5:20

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by creaky:
I had posted one simple link about Obama's Excutive Order regarding Interpol,...
Yes, and I asked you a question regarding it. :D
I didn't answer as this site isn't the place for such discussions. Google my username and you can find such answers if you so wish.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 22 Apr 2010 @ 5:22

10815.2.2011 21:24

Originally posted by DaCount:
Zoolook, you are mistaken. Daniel_1 got it right on the nose. Torrents ARE illegal when you are illegally downloading something that does not belong to you.
The torrent protocol is NOT illegal... downloading files over the bit-torrent protocol is NOT illegal.

Quote:
It is only legal when you are downloading something in the public domain. So if you are downloading something your boss sent you to look at..fine. BUT if you are downloading the latest album or hot movie from hollywood, then sorry zoolook...you are illegal.
No need to apologise, you have agreed with me.

To re-itterate, niether the protocol or downloading over that protocol are illegal. The legality issue ONLY crops its head if you are uploading or downloading material to which you do not have the rights to do. I maintained this from minute one.

Quote:
Now being in that state you are subject to whatever laws your country has for or against this action. You are also subject to arrest by Interpol if they have signed onto the standard agreement as that allows another country to come after you for breaking it's laws for downloading illegal material.
I am not 100% sure of this, but I believe they are more interested in people who upload rather then download the material.

Quote:
Your refusal to understand this means that you will most likely be on the list of busted people at sometime in the future so be careful but let us know when you get busted so we can send you a few years supply of soap on a rope.
Your refusal to understand the fact that a protocol in itself cannot be illegal, is astounding.

If that were the case, since files could be illegally downloaded over HTTP would surely mean that web-browsing could equally be in the firing line.

10915.2.2011 21:41

Originally posted by DaCount:
Um, Paula_X? In the US you are incorrect in your statement. The betamax decision of 1974 by the US Supreme Court does indeed allow you to make copies of what you own for your own personal use, you just cannot sell them or give them away. What the laws do is to make OWNING copyable programs illegal. IN short you can copy anything you legally own for personal use, you just cannot legally own the programs to do it. That way they are not stopping you from copying your personal items, just stopping you from getting the programs to allow you to do it. Twisted? You bet. Legal? Unquestionably. Devious and a spit in your face? Without a doubt. Can you change it? Not hardly.
Not too sure about DVD/BD, but as for games/software (obviously non public domain), if you took the time to read the licence agreement, you would see that (in general) you BUY the licence to use the software. The licence agreement provisions you to be supplied with one hard-copy of the software, and that you are NOT permitted to make backups. The agreement goes to great pains to point out that if your hard-copy becomes faulty, you are entitled to a replacement within a certain time-frame (a guarantee/warranty), and after this time, you will need to cover additional costs to get a replacement.

Tell me... when your firewall pops up a question saying "do you wish to allow jkfnsjkfns.exe to act as server", do you just click on "yes"?

11016.2.2011 0:11

Originally posted by MrZoolook:
Tell me... when your firewall pops up a question saying "do you wish to allow jkfnsjkfns.exe to act as server", do you just click on "yes"?

....So what happened when you did it? :P


Just for reference, not all licence agreements are 100% legal depending on which country you're in.

In Oz you are definitely allowed to make backups of whatever as long you own it... regardless of whatever the so-called "licence agreement" says. You are certainly not allowed to sell them.

Also, whilst it may not be legal to mod your console in the UK (I think), it certainly is in Oz. MS may cripple your X360 and ban it online but it's still legal to mod. Actually I think MS' HD crippling may be subject to scrutiny here but no-one's bothered to take them to task. Before you assume I am talking out my backside, I assure you I was working in a mod shop at the time these legalities were being questioned. My boss even made a trip to the capital over it.

Oh yeah, the copyright mob tried to take an ISP to court not long ago here over their customers' illegal downloading of whatever... they lost that too. Why? They are not responsible for what their customers do with the service.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

11116.2.2011 1:23

Originally posted by Jemborg:
Oh yeah, the copyright mob tried to take an ISP to court not long ago here over their customers' illegal downloading of whatever... they lost that too. Why? They are not responsible for what their customers do with the service.
Exactly how it should be... In the same way a gun-smith should not be held liable if a customer decides to go on a rampage and shoot people, an ISP is not liable for users actions.

Saying that, like the gun-smith, an ISP should hand over relevant records PROVIDING they are presented with the correct court order, and not before! After all, they are bound by law (as with any business) to assist relevant agencies (does not include the entertainment industry) with documentary evidence to assist the investigation of crime.

11216.2.2011 20:13

Originally posted by MrZoolook:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
Oh yeah, the copyright mob tried to take an ISP to court not long ago here over their customers' illegal downloading of whatever... they lost that too. Why? They are not responsible for what their customers do with the service.
Exactly how it should be... In the same way a gun-smith should not be held liable if a customer decides to go on a rampage and shoot people, an ISP is not liable for users actions.

Saying that, like the gun-smith, an ISP should hand over relevant records PROVIDING they are presented with the correct court order, and not before! After all, they are bound by law (as with any business) to assist relevant agencies (does not include the entertainment industry) with documentary evidence to assist the investigation of crime.
That would make the entertainment industry (in the US)in breach of privacy considerations in regards to their ridiculously punitive civil court suites... interesting.

Guns? Unfortunately too many sad dickheads want to "go on a rampage". Is it a fair comparison comparing mass murder with file sharing? That's rather over the top. Besides your approach seems like locking the gate after the horse has bolted. :)




Edit: here is the REAL update. Just did a google search on isohunt... still seems to be going strong. And considering the age of this thread....



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 16 Feb 2011 @ 20:33

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

11317.2.2011 4:00

Originally posted by Jemborg:
That would make the entertainment industry (in the US)in breach of privacy considerations in regards to their ridiculously punitive civil court suites... interesting.

The ISP's who provide it without a lawful request are more at fault... Anybody (even you) can ask any organisation to provide any data they have stored, the point I was making was that the ISP's who provide it are breaching relevant privacy laws unless the request is being served under a court judgement.

Quote:
Guns? Unfortunately too many sad dickheads want to "go on a rampage". Is it a fair comparison comparing mass murder with file sharing? That's rather over the top. Besides your approach seems like locking the gate after the horse has bolted.

There are 2 ways to combat crime/wrong-doing, the assumption that everyone is innocent till proven guilty (which is the guiding principle of the vast majority of the populace) or that everyone is guilty until proven innocent (which is how the entertainment industry and those with knee-jerk reactions to the bit-torrent protocol seem to behave).

Quote:
Edit: here is the REAL update. Just did a google search on isohunt... still seems to be going strong. And considering the age of this thread....

What laws were they breaking? See my point above, all isohunt EVER did was send a list of IP addresses and a small file with some hash info...

11417.2.2011 7:32

Originally posted by MrZoolook:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
That would make the entertainment industry (in the US)in breach of privacy considerations in regards to their ridiculously punitive civil court suites... interesting.
Quote:

The ISP's who provide it without a lawful request are more at fault... Anybody (even you) can ask any organisation to provide any data they have stored, the point I was making was that the ISP's who provide it are breaching relevant privacy laws unless the request is being served under a court judgement.
Well no one can just ask for data you need a court to allow you to get the data and if you have that then an ISP would have to provide said data.

Other wise they can be held for withholding information from a court case.

Quote:
Guns? Unfortunately too many sad dickheads want to "go on a rampage". Is it a fair comparison comparing mass murder with file sharing? That's rather over the top. Besides your approach seems like locking the gate after the horse has bolted.
Quote:

There are 2 ways to combat crime/wrong-doing, the assumption that everyone is innocent till proven guilty (which is the guiding principle of the vast majority of the populace) or that everyone is guilty until proven innocent (which is how the entertainment industry and those with knee-jerk reactions to the bit-torrent protocol seem to behave).
Well under normal US law yes that would be correct.

Under DMCA your guilty until you prove yourself innocent, all it takes is a copyright holder to take you to court and your screwed unless you can prove you didn't do what they say.


Quote:
Edit: here is the REAL update. Just did a google search on isohunt... still seems to be going strong. And considering the age of this thread....
Quote:

What laws were they breaking? See my point above, all isohunt EVER did was send a list of IP addresses and a small file with some hash info...

Problem though.... what Isohunt do is the EXACT same thing as what the pirate bay does.

Allow people to pirate copyright files.

You might not like that but it's a fact.

That what the owners of the pirate bay didn't understand, the court case wasn't ever about them having pirated files on their server, it was about them providing people links to pirated files and yes they do.

They even showed the court how they provide people with these links.

That is what silly people do, when they think... they understand the law but really don't understand it at all.

Though they are just kids running around thinking they know stuff, Geohot is the same deal he'll be screwed over and simply have no idea why.

Big business wins because they make money which pays millions in taxes and employee's pay checks and in turn they pay some taxes and pay big business back etc.

People not paying for stuff simply means people don't get employed and in turn stuff doesn't get made anymore.

Like this site wouldn't exist if it didn't pay it's bills just like Isohunt wouldn't exist if it's site owners didn't pay the hosting bill but where does the hosting money come from and it'll be ADs for the exact same stuff that's getting ripped off on isohunt.

Seem a bit funny if the ADs disappeared and then isohunt wouldn't exist because there's nothing to torrent on there and 2 the site can't afford to keep paying $1,000's in hosting costs.

11517.2.2011 10:46

@ MrZoolook

1) Ok. MY point is that for a (even a civil one) court to make that request it has to have a good reason or cause to justify that in the first place. They can't select to check out peoples records at random. What evidence do they present to the court to get it to make that request?

2) Yes, and in regards to file sharing, yes. The principle that you express cannot perhaps be extended to instruments which sole simple function is for killing. The assumption that it will not be used for it's purpose can be regarded as too big a risk to take (statistically speaking). Considering the consequences are so drastic.

My brother-in-law works in a gun shop. He says it's surprising how many dodgy idiots wander in asking inquiring after a handgun. It ain't that easy in Oz. Heh.

3) Indeed. I guess I was commenting on the title of this article. And other dated ones dealing with this particular news item.

@ xtago, MrZoolook is correct. Isohunt or TPB are no more responsible for non-profit "piracy" as Ford is for selling me a car that I might drive inebriated. I have downloaded quite legal torrents from them.



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This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Feb 2011 @ 11:04

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

11617.2.2011 16:32

Originally posted by xtago:

Originally posted by MrZoolook:

The ISP's who provide it without a lawful request are more at fault... Anybody (even you) can ask any organisation to provide any data they have stored, the point I was making was that the ISP's who provide it are breaching relevant privacy laws unless the request is being served under a court judgement.


Well no one can just ask for data you need a court to allow you to get the data and if you have that then an ISP would have to provide said data.
Other wise they can be held for withholding information from a court case.


Which is basically what I said! The usual procedure for getting documentary evidence from a 3rd party in a court case is to seek an injunction from the courts to the effect of ordering that 3rd party to release the information.
Additionally, the ISP's are duty bound to ONLY supply that information when a injunction has been served, and if they provide it to anyone without that court order, they "could" be held to account under data protection laws.

As an aside, worth noting the difference between being entitled to ask for data, and being granted the data after asking for it!
Quote:

Quote:

There are 2 ways to combat crime/wrong-doing, the assumption that everyone is innocent till proven guilty (which is the guiding principle of the vast majority of the populace) or that everyone is guilty until proven innocent (which is how the entertainment industry and those with knee-jerk reactions to the bit-torrent protocol seem to behave).


Well under normal US law yes that would be correct.
Under DMCA your guilty until you prove yourself innocent, all it takes is a copyright holder to take you to court and your screwed unless you can prove you didn't do what they say.


Exactly my point, the entertainment industry assume your guilty.
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Edit: here is the REAL update. Just did a google search on isohunt... still seems to be going strong. And considering the age of this thread....


What laws were they breaking? See my point above, all isohunt EVER did was send a list of IP addresses and a small file with some hash info...


Problem though.... what Isohunt do is the EXACT same thing as what the pirate bay does.
Allow people to pirate copyright files.
You might not like that but it's a fact.
That what the owners of the pirate bay didn't understand, the court case wasn't ever about them having pirated files on their server, it was about them providing people links to pirated files and yes they do.
They even showed the court how they provide people with these links.


This would be the same Pirate Bay that are still providing torrents? Not sure what your point is here... they were taken to court and yet are still running (though I admit I don't recall the exact judgement if any).
Quote:

That is what silly people do, when they think... they understand the law but really don't understand it at all.


TPB and (presumably the authorities) knew enough to know that TPB are at worst acting immorally... again, assuming their case has concluded, the fact they are still operating says they either won or the case was dropped for some reason and not followed through.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Feb 2011 @ 16:35

11717.2.2011 16:55

Originally posted by Jemborg:
2) Yes, and in regards to file sharing, yes. The principle that you express cannot perhaps be extended to instruments which sole simple function is for killing. The assumption that it will not be used for it's purpose can be regarded as too big a risk to take (statistically speaking). Considering the consequences are so drastic.
The underlying principle is sound...

Screwdrivers, matches, bricks, knives, rope, tent-pegs, computers, cups, bottles, mobile phones... at the most basic, anything and everything can be used in a crime of some description.

Who should be held to account if they are used in a crime... frankly, the person committing the crime. Though that's not to say the more potentially dangerous items should be handed out to anyone and everyone... but if you were to buy a flat-pack book-case, should you really need to call out a qualified builder because only they are permitted to use screwdrivers since screwdrivers are more potentially dangerous.

The point I am making is that the store-owner is given guidelines and regulations on whom to sell these things too (over 21s) and if the person attempting to buy the item passes these criteria... then that is where the store owners responsibility should end!

11818.2.2011 19:29

Originally posted by MrZoolook:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
2) Yes, and in regards to file sharing, yes. The principle that you express cannot perhaps be extended to instruments which sole simple function is for killing. The assumption that it will not be used for it's purpose can be regarded as too big a risk to take (statistically speaking). Considering the consequences are so drastic.
The underlying principle is sound...

Screwdrivers, matches, bricks, knives, rope, tent-pegs, computers, cups, bottles, mobile phones... at the most basic, anything and everything can be used in a crime of some description.

Who should be held to account if they are used in a crime... frankly, the person committing the crime. Though that's not to say the more potentially dangerous items should be handed out to anyone and everyone... but if you were to buy a flat-pack book-case, should you really need to call out a qualified builder because only they are permitted to use screwdrivers since screwdrivers are more potentially dangerous.

The point I am making is that the store-owner is given guidelines and regulations on whom to sell these things too (over 21s) and if the person attempting to buy the item passes these criteria... then that is where the store owners responsibility should end!
At the risk of being dogmatic...

"...instruments which sole simple function is for killing."


I fail to see how you could not see that I made that distinction. That is plain simple English. You can disagree with it all you like but don't pretend I did not make it. I.e. not things which have other purposes regardless of the fact that any tool can be used for harm.

The shopkeeper's discretion is not at issue here but the availability of weapons. Weapon dealers will sell to anybody with money and always have. They cannot be trusted to make the decision. In Oz that is granted by the relevant authorities. Approaching a dealer and saying "you should not have sold that psycho an assault weapon (handslap)" after they have shot up a mall is pointless. As I said drastic consequences.

So in regards to tools which are designed for the singular purpose of killing the principal is not sound. And this is largely born out in my country.

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

11918.2.2011 21:00

I am sure many Americans would argue the toss that guns have other purposes. After all, if they were "only" used to kill, they would not be sold so openly there. But that is an entirely different argument. Keep in mind every nation (including yours and mine) trades guns and other arms to other nations.

Or are you deliberately trying now to draw a distinction between being OK for a gvt to buy arms, but an individual should not?

Surely an individual would kill less then a gvt, should they both decide to go on a rampage?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Feb 2011 @ 21:02

12018.2.2011 21:04

Incidentally, the sole purpose of guns is to SHOOT not kill.

12119.2.2011 6:10

Originally posted by MrZoolook:
Incidentally, the sole purpose of guns is to SHOOT not kill.
what happens when you shoot a living thing???it either gets injured or dies.people dont go hunting non-living things.occasionally guns are used in sport that doesnt involve killing things but only on very rare occasions.if the world was rid of guns it would be a safer place but unfortunetly if 1 country was rid of guns completely others would take advantage of them using guns.

custom built gaming pc from early 2010,ps2 with 15 games all original,ps3 500gbs with 5 games all original,yamaha amp and 5.1channel surround sound speakers,46inch sony lcd smart tv.

12219.2.2011 8:32

Look man, I know guns are fun. I love shooting off a handgun at the range*. My brother-in-law is on the Olympic team... I'm just trying to be real.

@ xboxdvl2: You don't rid the guns from the army! LOL


*(Where someone manages to suicide every few months.)



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This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Feb 2011 @ 8:38

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

12319.2.2011 14:18

lets stay on topic shall we or i'll close this thread.

12419.2.2011 18:49

Originally posted by ddp:
lets stay on topic shall we or i'll close this thread.
If you follow the thread carefully it is on topic.

A comparison is being made concerning the purpose of sites like isohunt and their legality. We're arguing over a point of principle in this regard.

I've been a long term member of AD and stuck by it, my record is sound and I give good input... there's no need to get heavy handed.



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This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 19 Feb 2011 @ 19:01

Its a lot easier being righteous than right.


DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD

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