Blu-ray player sales hit 2.7 million on Black Friday

so the PS3's were counted?
that article title is mis-leading, i thought players OTHER than the PS3 sold 2.7M

edit: AHH i read the article and thought 2.7M were sold ON black friday, but its total players to date

Every standalone Blu-ray player count ever from the BDA has included PS3 sales because that's what Sony classifies it as, and they're one of the two "primary" members of the BDA, along with Matsushita.

Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

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thanks
and i love it how you know the real standalone sales are under 200,000

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

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I wouldn't call my PS3 a standalone BR player but i do play BR on it. Also people will buy a PS3 because it does more then just play BR which is obvious and a good choice if you like BR.

The fact is that Blu-ray movies have outsold HD DVD titles. Now either owners of Blu-ray standalone players buy several times as many discs as those who buy HD DVD players or some percentage of PS3 owners are using it to watch movies.

In any case the number is misleading, but so are numbers that don't include the PS3.

Actually this article confuses me, according to many people the PS3 is included in the Blu-Ray standalone numbers. However, according to VZChartz.com the PS3 has sold 6.55 Million units.

So whats the real truth? Its seemed since the beginning of the format war that the Blu-Ray association has included PS3's in its sales numbers for players. However, I know that Blu-Ray hasn't sold 2.7 million standalones and even if they really did then the adoption rate (dispite the 3:1 sales on BF) is even lower then previously reported by either camp, with or without the PS3 included in its numbers.

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

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thanks
and i love it how you know the real standalone sales are under 200,000

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well would you consider the PS3 a standalone? i know i dont :)

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

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thanks
and i love it how you know the real standalone sales are under 200,000

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well would you consider the PS3 a standalone? i know i dont :)

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Originally posted by vurbal:

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Now either owners of Blu-ray standalone players buy several times as many discs as those who buy HD DVD players or some percentage of PS3 owners are using it to watch movies.

In any case the number is misleading, but so are numbers that don't include the PS3.

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According to the Blu-ray Association, as of the end of Black Friday (November 24th) the total number of Blu-ray playrs sold reach 2.7 million.

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

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thanks
and i love it how you know the real standalone sales are under 200,000

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well would you consider the PS3 a standalone? i know i dont :)

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nope i dont, in fact i believe its BETTER than standalones, because you get the gaming..
so it shouldn't be counted

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Now... Where's ol' Huey? lol

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But the bottom line is disc sold right ?so what so misleading about that.You guys are really showing your bais toward Blu-Ray.

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Originally posted by vinny13:

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Now... Where's ol' Huey? lol

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Here is a little bit of "lite reading" lol anyway just please read all of it and take it into consideration

Ok I’m going to give everybody here a clear look on the war between HD-DVD and Blu-ray. HD-DVD players are out selling Blu-Ray DVD players......however Blu-ray disk sell over 2 times as much as HD disks. Toshiba refuses to included the PS3 into their numbers because they stat that most people don’t buy a PS3 with the intention of playing Blu-ray movies. Now let's do some math, Toshiba has stated that they have sold 750,00 DVD players (including Microsoft Xbox 360 HD-DVD drives), while Blu-ray has sold under 200,000 units (not including PS3 systems sold). But now that Toshiba is taking into account the sales of Xbox 360 HD-DVD drives, then we should also take into account the sales of PS3 systems that are also used as a Blu-ray player. So when you consider that Blu-ray disks sell almost 2+ times as much as HD, but HD-DVD players are selling far more then Blu-ray, then the only logical conclusion is that Toshibas claim about the PS3's influence on the market is a serious understatement. Here is some more math (yes we love math) to show what I’m talking about. Since Blu-ray outsells HD-DVD more than 2 to 1 (3 to 1 now according to the figures released after black Friday), we must assume that their are roughly 2 times as many homes using Blu-ray players then HD-DVD players, That, or HD-DVD owners just aren’t buying many movies, which I highly doubt, since both formats cost about the same, and the average of High Definition DVD’s purchased by consumers shouldn’t depend on which format their buying. Now back to my point, in our assumption that their are 2 times as many Blu-ray players (being used) in homes. Since Toshiba has claimed to sell 750,000 units, that that means that 1.5 million people own, buy and prefer Blu-ray. Now that we can get a rough number on how many Blu-ray devices are being used in America we can figure out how many of those are PS3 owners. Since Toshiba is only counting HD-DVD player sales in America, then we can only count the PS3 systems sold here in the states, and not those sold over-seas so that’s about 3.7 million units as of Nov 27 (according to TG Daily). So since we know that about 200,000 Blu-ray players have been sold, we take that number and subtract it from the amount of Blu-ray players used in homes, which is the 1.5 million and we come up with 1.3 million units in the market, not accounted for by stand alone player sales(which are PS3 systems). So we can roughly assume that about 1.3 of the 3.7 million PS3 systems are being used as Blu-ray players, which accounts for 35% of PS3's, With those kinds of numbers, you don’t even want me to take into account the other 5 million or so sold in Japan were Blu-ray holds a 97% market share, and Europe were it has a 73% market share; don’t believe me, Google it. That number seems to be pretty accurate and even supports Toshibas claims that the majority of PS3 systems are not being used as Blu-Ray players. Now its not really a very low majority of people but it is low enough to see why Toshiba would make that claim, but large enough to understand why they wouldn’t want to include those numbers. With that said, I mentioned earlier that Blu-ray sales were almost 3 to 1 compared to HD-DVD this past black Friday. Now look at the fact that the Sony PS3 sales sky rocketed during the exact same time frame, just like when Sony initially dropped the price on the PS3 a few months ago. So yes you can make the claim that PS3 systems can’t be counted, and that Blu-ray player sales are horrible, but the simple fact of the matter is, it doesn’t matter what you, me or Toshiba and Sony want to consider what really counts in these figures. Because the numbers don’t lie, Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD in every aspect, EVERY ONE! Even if Sony sold 0 stand alone Blu-ray players this holiday season. That 35% of PS3 sales are still higher than the expected 250,000 HD-DVD players expected to be sold by the end of the year (Many sources claim that the number of HD-DVD players sold in the U.S. will reach 1 million by the end of the year). So we could potentially see Blu-ray outselling HD-DVD’s almost 4 to 1 by the end of year (since they already have about a 3 to 1 edge since black Friday, only time will tell if this ratio will hold, or if it is temporary due to the season). These are what the movie studios are going to be considering, and not just the sales of stand alone players just in the U.S. alone like Toshiba. Their numbers are very misleading. HD is not fighting a winning war and they have a HUGE hill to climb. If you do the math, Blu-ray has about a 66% market share in the U.S.

So Now lets take a look at the studios, currently, Blu-Ray has Fox, Disney Buena vista, Lions gate, MGM, and Sony Pictures (which includes Columbia Pictures and Tri-Star Pictures). HD has Paramount, Universal studios, and DreamWorks. Warner brothers is currently producing both formats. So with that said, the majority of Hollywood’s heavy weights are backing Blu-ray, Ohh and lets now forget that according to the New York Times, the only reason Paramount/DreamWorks switched sides was because they were paid $150,000,000 by Toshiba to do so, call me crazy but...isn’t that a bribe, just a thought. Also lets consider the fact the blockbuster, who has millions of customers has stated that they will only carry Blu-ray movies in vast majority of their stores. So those customers who rent from blockbuster on a regular, weekly basis, that are considering a High-Definition player are going to be highly swayed toward Blu-ray. And movie studios couldn’t care less which format sells more players. Its the DVD sales that they care about because they don’t make money of the sale of the players.

So lets move onto another topic doesn’t seem to get addressed. People think that because HD-DVD players are selling high in the US it means that are winning the war. People do not realize that their are other nations and regions out their, with a big impact on the market. In fact, history dictates that U.S trends (at lease concerning new technologies) highly tend to follow those of Europe and especially Asia. And considering that Blu-Ray is ahead of HD-DVD over in Japan (97% market share), and Europe (73% market share), who once highly accepted HD-DVD, is now moving toward Blu-ray. What do you think will happen if the rest of the world chooses Blu-ray, but we choose HD-DVD.....Blu-ray will still win because their will be far more support and customers for Blu-ray then their would be for HD, even if you disagree and you hate the PS3 and Blu-ray with a passion, it still doesn’t change the facts, and that is Blu-ray holds roughly, a 78.6% market share world wide (add 66%, 97% and 73%, divide by 3 to get the average, come on guys simple math), that is 3 out of 4 people. Now I am not saying that Blu-ray will definitely win, but, they do have a big edge on HD. When we talk about the this war we have to look at everything, not just sales of stand-alone players that are very misleading. All calculations noted above are rough estimates and not confirmed by any company, however they are based of known and confirmed numbers, and further more does coincide with what both Sony and Toshiba have stated regarding Blu-ray and HD-DVD. So with that said, these “rough” estimates and calculations, are realistically probably not that far off, and explains the gap between Blu-ray and HD-DVD movie sales, while HD-DVD players still outsell stand alone Blu-ray players. I think that this holiday season, the sales of PS3 will ultimately determine who will come out ahead. Oh and just one more thing, to all those people who call the PS3 a “Blu-station”, that is a stupid argument that only shows people that you know nothing about the facts of Blu-ray and HD-DVD. Your personal opinion about the PS3 has nothing to do with this battle of formats. Furthermore, Sony has stated several times, that the main reason they implemented Blu-ray into the PS3 was because they did not want to limit game developers to disk space, and since HD-DVD was created by Microsoft and a standard DVD can not hold a sufficient amount of data these days, obviously they went with Blu-ray. And of course they would market it as a Blu-ray player as well, their a company, their in the business of making money. But don’t think for one second that Sony spend billions of dollars, and several years in R&D with a handful of other companies like IBM, to develop a next generation system to just sell a Blu-Ray player, that’s just stupid, it is first and foremost a Game console, but a console with a hell of a lot of potential. Please feel free to scrutinize and reply to this post, and in fact i welcome them, lets just keep is civil, and adult. We don’t need to start calling people stupid, and putting them down just because they don’t agree with you. So sorry if i offended anyone with this post, its more venting then anything. feel free to email me at MegyeriJ@gmail.com thanks!

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But the bottom line is disc sold right ?so what so misleading about that.You guys are really showing your bais toward Blu-Ray.

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Actually I don't believe that vurbal, DVDBack23 or anyone else for that matter is showing bias towards blu-ray. It looks to me that vurbal, DVDBack23 and others, myself included, do not like how the Blu-Ray association runs their numbers.

If they include the PS3 in their numbers, which they have seemed to do up until this article, then why do they exclude the 360 HD DVD add-on in the comparison numbers? As far as I know HD DVD doesn't include the HD DVD add-on in their numbers either, which doesn't make sense because zero games for the 360 are on HD DVD this means that every add-on purchased is more than likely used to watch HD DVDs, sense it has no other purpose.

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Originally posted by Pop_Smith:

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As far as I know HD DVD doesn't include the HD DVD add-on in their numbers either, which doesn't make sense because zero games for the 360 are on HD DVD this means that every add-on purchased is more than likely used to watch HD DVDs, sense it has no other purpose.

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A combined total of over 750,000 standalone set-top players and Xbox 360 HD DVD players have now been sold through to consumers.

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These numbers are bad, first off it maybe mentions PS3s are included in the sells,dosent mention the BR campaign of free alot of movies with hardware which obviously inflates the disc sell ratio, the high price of the BR players also has to slow sells as it dose with the PS3, the BR Asc is obviously fudging numbers because they dont even have them in yet.


Still tis interesting to see HDVD pushing nearly 1 million units (counting the HDVD add on because it can be used on the computer),and the BR side claiming higher sells even at their ridiculous prices.

Also if you read into it the PS3 has sold 2 million untis in the US and this is a US based estimate of 2.7 for the US.

there is still a huge glut of used PS3s so they could be gettign dumped back to the resale market because people want to use a remote for their motives and get pissed its not a player its a game machine....also I am surprised not more HD equipment is not sent to resale before of the lack in quality,with a TV to support it theres no difference in it for the most part.


BR is winning euro land its ashame to they use region coding that only hurts them more HDVD has been putting it off but will mvoe to it sooner or later.

Xmas is a ugly season in the war but spring brings cheaper HDVD players and a better chance for it to gain more ground, no end in sight yet.

"spring brings cheaper HDVD players and a better chance for it to gain more ground"

are you kidding me, their already as low as $99-$199, how much cheaper do you think their going to get, well maybe if their that desperate. if anything, Blu-ray players will drop to the same price, and if that happens, kiss HD good bye because that combined with the 35% of PS3 (see my previous post) sales and the Blu-ray DVD sales, HD wont have a chance

Originally posted by MegyeriJ:

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"spring brings cheaper HDVD players and a better chance for it to gain more ground"

are you kidding me, their already as low as $99-$199, how much cheaper do you think their going to get, well maybe if their that desperate. if anything, Blu-ray players will drop to the same price, and if that happens, kiss HD good bye because that combined with the 35% of PS3 (see my previous post) sales and the Blu-ray DVD sales, HD wont have a chance

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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These numbers are bad, first off it maybe mentions PS3s are included in the sells,dosent mention the BR campaign of free alot of movies with hardware which obviously inflates the disc sell ratio, the high price of the BR players also has to slow sells as it dose with the PS3, the BR Asc is obviously fudging numbers because they dont even have them in yet.

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Originally posted by Pop_Smith:

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Well from what I have seen, between comments, like I quoted above, news articles and more it seems that the moral of the story is that both sides are tainted

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Originally posted by MegyeriJ:

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"spring brings cheaper HDVD players and a better chance for it to gain more ground"

are you kidding me, their already as low as $99-$199, how much cheaper do you think their going to get, well maybe if their that desperate. if anything, Blu-ray players will drop to the same price, and if that happens, kiss HD good bye because that combined with the 35% of PS3 (see my previous post) sales and the Blu-ray DVD sales, HD wont have a chance

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the 99 sale ended......normal price is 150-230,so yes they can go to 50-99 in the next year.

Also Blu ray has far far far to go yet before saturating the market and pushing HDVD out....even if they are at 70% of the HD market its a small market where even with 20% of sales they can linger and see the fight through, the war is far from over, and with HDVD havign set priced players at the 99 range that if they go on sale would be 50+ giving them even more advantage to linger and outsell BR in time.

still I kinda trust the 750K unit sales of the HDVD camp states, the BR camp plays with numbers to much and refuses to release maker estimates.

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But the bottom line is disc sold right ?so what so misleading about that.You guys are really showing your bais toward Blu-Ray.

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Ok just for kicks I decided to check out some stores and see what kind of selection, at least online, you could get from HD DVD or Blu-Ray.

Now, I know a website out there has the numbers even as far broken down as the number of movies and exclusives on each format however, I don't remember what the site is. :-(

So I tried to think of four retail outlets that carry HD DVD and Blu-Ray. I decided to go with Best Buy, Wal*Mart, Fry's and Target.

Best Buy's numbers and top (sorted by "Best Selling") HD DVDs which are located here:

They carry 390 HD DVDs and the top 10 are:

#1: Transformers
#2: 300
#3: The Departed
#4: Planet Earth
#5: Shrek the Third
#6: Batman Begins
#7: The Bourne Ultimatum
#8: Knocked Up
#9: The Bourne Supremacy
#10: Heroes Season 1

For Best Buy's Blu-Ray selection, which totals 457 disks, the top 10 movies sorted by Best Selling which is located here are:

#1: Spider Man 3
#2: Open Season
#3: 300
#4: Black Hawk Down
#5: Casino Royale
#6: Planet Earth
#7: Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
#8: Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl
#9: Underworld: Evolution
#10: Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End

Wal*Mart has 200 Blu-Ray movies, the top 10, which is located here:
#1: Die Hard Collection
#2: Ocean's Giftset
#3: Mission Impossible: Ultimate Collection
#4: Best of Blu-Ray: Vol. 1
#5: Underworld: Evolution
#6: The Last Waltz
#7: R.V.
#8: Full Metal Jacket
#9: Terminator 2: Judgment Day
#10: Aeon Flux

Wal*Mart has 280 HD DVDs, top 10 which is located here are:

#1: Planet Earth
#2: Harry Potter 1-5
#3: Transformers
#4: Ocean's Giftset
#5: Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix
#6: Shrek the Third
#7: Star Trek the Original Series: The Complete First Season
#8: The Matrix Trilogy
#9: Blade Runner
#10: Mission Impossible: Ultimate Collection

I couldn't find a way to sort Fry's aka Outpost.com HD DVD collection by sales but it contains 311 movies

I also couldn't find a way to sort the Blu-Ray selection by sales but it contains 313 movies.

Although I know Target carries Blu-Ray the website, which is located here said that they had 495 movies. If you click on one subject the title says "DVDs brought to you buy Amazon.com".

Target's HD DVD selection said the same thing as Blu-Ray but the amount of HD DVDs was 279 according to this page.

Peace

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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No bias here, I just dont appreciate the way the Blu-ray camp touts the PS3 as a standalone when it is not. It is first and foremost, a gaming console. It happens to play Blu-ray movies as well. Yes Blu-ray is selling more discs, HD DVD is selling more standaloneplayers, its as simple as that.

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that planet earth series was just amazing, in HD it was just..wow..both Blu-Ray and HD DVD, dont know about SD though, doesn't have the same WOW factor..thanks for the list popsmith

PS3 is the best BR choice player, I took back my SONY BR and bought the PS3. It just had so much more to offer and can easily be updated to profile 1.1 and soon 2.0. It's also one of the first BR players to have HDMI 1.3, which is important if you have a nice surround system at home. So yes the PS3 is a dam good stand alone player. Playing video games and streaming is a bonus that PS3 offers that no HD stand alone player offers.

Originally posted by jagstilv :

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

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Guess that means that all those PS3 owners are buying lots of BD movies, huh? Either way BD is outselling HD DVD by a large margin - do you have any neat sales figures on that? Idiot.

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But the bottom line is disc sold right ?so what so misleading about that.You guys are really showing your bais toward Blu-Ray.

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No bias here, I just dont appreciate the way the Blu-ray camp touts the PS3 as a standalone when it is not. It is first and foremost, a gaming console. It happens to play Blu-ray movies as well. Yes Blu-ray is selling more discs, HD DVD is selling more standaloneplayers, its as simple as that.

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If it "plays Blu-ray", thus it is considered a "Blu-ray PLAYER" LOL. So PS3 should count. As considering stand-alones, to me stand-alone players is if you can just plug it into a wall-outlet and plays, then it is a stand-alone hehe. I dunno if the Xbox360 HD-DVD add-on should count because you cant plug it into the wall, you need an Xbox360. Therefore, that's so not a stand-alone. Sure you can hook up the add-on to a PC, but then that should be counted with the HD-DVD Drives should it not instead of being counted as a stand-alone? Unless the Blu-ray player and the HD-DVD figure included the PC drives then the Xbox360 add-on can be included. IMO.

Wow, the game console format is currently (because it is piggybacking on a game console) selling a little better.

Big deal.

A game console is not the key to the wider adult a/v market.

Sorry for those that don't want to get this but there it is.

It's true some people have used the PS3 as the current cheapest and probably best way into Blu-ray but nevertheless the PS3 is a game console.

The fact that a minority of PS3 owners have bought some Blu-ray movies is neither here nor there
(tho the attach rates show far too few of them are really interested in it that way).

It's about as meaningful as UMD sales
(which, just to add a little perspective in this, IIRC are still ahead of both high def formats combined - in the same way as they have only just recently pulled ahead of VHS video tape sales numbers).

Originally posted by 26r0cK:

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If it "plays Blu-ray", thus it is considered a "Blu-ray PLAYER" LOL. So PS3 should count. As considering stand-alones, to me stand-alone players is if you can just plug it into a wall-outlet and plays, then it is a stand-alone hehe. I dunno if the Xbox360 HD-DVD add-on should count because you cant plug it into the wall, you need an Xbox360. Therefore, that's so not a stand-alone. Sure you can hook up the add-on to a PC, but then that should be counted with the HD-DVD Drives should it not instead of being counted as a stand-alone? Unless the Blu-ray player and the HD-DVD figure included the PC drives then the Xbox360 add-on can be included. IMO.

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I think there's too much hair-splitting with the terminology here.

In my view a device that can do PLAYBACK of that particular format should be included in the numbers.

Case in point:

I have a Toshiba Qosimo laptop that has an HD DVD drive. I can watch HD DVD's on it. I can connect it to my HDTV and watch HD DVD's that way too. PLUS it's also great for other video and audio playback, surfing the net, offfice work and presentations, and guess what, I also play my favorite RTS games on it.

Should it be included in the numbers? I think so - together with the other PC's and Macs that have BluRay drives and burners in them.

I think they should do away with the standalone terminology and go with FORMAT PLAYBACK DEVICE instead. Then let's talk about numbers.

Originally posted by juankerr:

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I think there's too much hair-splitting with the terminology here.

In my view a device that can do PLAYBACK of that particular format should be included in the numbers.

Case in point:

I have a Toshiba Qosimo laptop that has an HD DVD drive. I can watch HD DVD's on it. I can connect it to my HDTV and watch HD DVD's that way too. PLUS it's also great for other video and audio playback, surfing the net, offfice work and presentations, and guess what, I also play my favorite RTS games on it.

Should it be included in the numbers? I think so - together with the other PC's and Macs that have BluRay drives and burners in them.

I think they should do away with the standalone terminology and go with FORMAT PLAYBACK DEVICE instead. Then let's talk about numbers.

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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well if 30-50% of the PS3s didn't go without ever running a BR movie I would stop hair splinting, this is why one can question it harshly.

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Originally posted by juankerr:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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well if 30-50% of the PS3s didn't go without ever running a BR movie I would stop hair splinting, this is why one can question it harshly.

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The same thing goes with HD DVD laptops. When your company supplies you with an HD DVD laptop does it mean that you're going to use it primarily for HD DVD playback? Of course not.

But the thing is - it gives HD DVD another device out in the market that has the potential to increase movie sales.

The strategy of including the BluRay drive in the PS3 is being mirrored by Toshiba in their inclusion of HD DVD drives in their laptops. It adds to the number of devices out in the wild that can increase sales of HD DVD movies even if their main purpose is running business/corporate software.

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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Wow, the game console format is currently (because it is piggybacking on a game console) selling a little better.

Big deal.

A game console is not the key to the wider adult a/v market.

Sorry for those that don't want to get this but there it is.

It's true some people have used the PS3 as the current cheapest and probably best way into Blu-ray but nevertheless the PS3 is a game console.

The fact that a minority of PS3 owners have bought some Blu-ray movies is neither here nor there
(tho the attach rates show far too few of them are really interested in it that way).

It's about as meaningful as UMD sales
(which, just to add a little perspective in this, IIRC are still ahead of both high def formats combined - in the same way as they have only just recently pulled ahead of VHS video tape sales numbers).

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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Wow, the game console format is currently (because it is piggybacking on a game console) selling a little better.

Big deal.

A game console is not the key to the wider adult a/v market.

Sorry for those that don't want to get this but there it is.

It's true some people have used the PS3 as the current cheapest and probably best way into Blu-ray but nevertheless the PS3 is a game console.

The fact that a minority of PS3 owners have bought some Blu-ray movies is neither here nor there
(tho the attach rates show far too few of them are really interested in it that way).

It's about as meaningful as UMD sales
(which, just to add a little perspective in this, IIRC are still ahead of both high def formats combined - in the same way as they have only just recently pulled ahead of VHS video tape sales numbers).

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Once again there hughjars your wrong. The PS3 is a multi-media device. Thats the way any PS has been since the first originally released their systems on the market. It can be what you need or want it to be. The 360 is also another multi-media device. I dont know why you feel the need to discredit any and every thing with the PS3.

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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Originally posted by jagstilv :

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Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Yes, this includes US PS3 sales..because real standalone blu-ray sales are under 200,000

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Guess that means that all those PS3 owners are buying lots of BD movies, huh? Either way BD is outselling HD DVD by a large margin - do you have any neat sales figures on that? Idiot.

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at the moment blu-ray's are outselling hd-dvd's by a 3 to 1 margin but considering that there are in excess of 6 million blu-ray players and less than 1 million hd-dvd players its very sad.

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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Wow, the game console format is currently (because it is piggybacking on a game console) selling a little better.

Big deal.

A game console is not the key to the wider adult a/v market.

Sorry for those that don't want to get this but there it is.

It's true some people have used the PS3 as the current cheapest and probably best way into Blu-ray but nevertheless the PS3 is a game console.

The fact that a minority of PS3 owners have bought some Blu-ray movies is neither here nor there
(tho the attach rates show far too few of them are really interested in it that way).

It's about as meaningful as UMD sales
(which, just to add a little perspective in this, IIRC are still ahead of both high def formats combined - in the same way as they have only just recently pulled ahead of VHS video tape sales numbers).

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Originally posted by hughjars:

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Wow, the game console format is currently (because it is piggybacking on a game console) selling a little better.

Big deal.

A game console is not the key to the wider adult a/v market.

Sorry for those that don't want to get this but there it is.

It's true some people have used the PS3 as the current cheapest and probably best way into Blu-ray but nevertheless the PS3 is a game console.

The fact that a minority of PS3 owners have bought some Blu-ray movies is neither here nor there
(tho the attach rates show far too few of them are really interested in it that way).

It's about as meaningful as UMD sales
(which, just to add a little perspective in this, IIRC are still ahead of both high def formats combined - in the same way as they have only just recently pulled ahead of VHS video tape sales numbers).

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Ohh ya your right, 1.3 million PS3 owners in america alone. you call that a small minority, still double what HD-DVD has. Its sad to see people prefer to watch thier High Def movies on a game oonsole prather then a stand alone HD-DVD player

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Originally posted by juankerr:

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I think there's too much hair-splitting with the terminology here.

In my view a device that can do PLAYBACK of that particular format should be included in the numbers.

Case in point:

I have a Toshiba Qosimo laptop that has an HD DVD drive. I can watch HD DVD's on it. I can connect it to my HDTV and watch HD DVD's that way too. PLUS it's also great for other video and audio playback, surfing the net, offfice work and presentations, and guess what, I also play my favorite RTS games on it.

Should it be included in the numbers? I think so - together with the other PC's and Macs that have BluRay drives and burners in them.

I think they should do away with the standalone terminology and go with FORMAT PLAYBACK DEVICE instead. Then let's talk about numbers.

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Quote:

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The strategy of including the BluRay drive in the PS3 is being mirrored by Toshiba in their inclusion of HD DVD drives in their laptops. It adds to the number of devices out in the wild that can increase sales of HD DVD movies even if their main purpose is running business/corporate software.

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Some of you people seem to have forgotten what the definition of "standalone" is:

A standalone device is able to function independently of other hardware. This means it is not integrated into another device.

Hmmmm, what does this mean?

It means that the PS3 is not a standalone and should not be included in the figures the BDA is comming up with. I think it belongs in a separate category in and of itself. Face it, Blu-Ray is on a piggyback ride with the PS3.

How bout dem' apples...

This post is a little off topic as it doesn't really discuss the virute or validity of the numbers as posted. But since articles like this tend to result in discussions that spiral downwards into the realm of 'who rules and who drools' (lol) it will fit in just nicely :-)


I think you will find that the Joe Average consumer has no favorites in this format war. What Average Joe wants is to watch a movie that (s)he wants to watch and to do it on a tv not a monitor screen.

People (both the tech savy and the Average Joe) I know are now debating/considering the purchase of players for both formats. Buying one player first and then following it up with the other format not so far down the road. Most don't care about the techie pros and cons like us card carrying members of the 'nerd herd' do. Most don't spell microsoft as M$ or as MicroShaft nor do they spout off about the evils of Sony's DRM, rootkit fiasco or anti-consumerist behavior. None of them argue and name call over press releases touting their numbers and superiority over the other format.

They buy one format and when they go to try to get a HD movie and find it is only offered in the other format they then fully realize that no matter which format they started with IF they want to watch all the movies they are interested in watching in HD they need both formats.

Arguing over why your choice is best, or is going to 'win' is just mental masturbation or pure fanboyism. You have your preferances (whatever they may be) and that's fine. Other people have their own preferences and that's fine too.

But for those of you are taking this whole BD/HD-DVD thing so personally you really need to step back and get a grip-- or a life

Originally posted by eatsushi:

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Originally posted by juankerr:

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I think there's too much hair-splitting with the terminology here.

In my view a device that can do PLAYBACK of that particular format should be included in the numbers.

Case in point:

I have a Toshiba Qosimo laptop that has an HD DVD drive. I can watch HD DVD's on it. I can connect it to my HDTV and watch HD DVD's that way too. PLUS it's also great for other video and audio playback, surfing the net, offfice work and presentations, and guess what, I also play my favorite RTS games on it.

Should it be included in the numbers? I think so - together with the other PC's and Macs that have BluRay drives and burners in them.

I think they should do away with the standalone terminology and go with FORMAT PLAYBACK DEVICE instead. Then let's talk about numbers.

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Very good points there juankerr.

Any device that has even the smallest potential to increase your media sales has to be taken into account somehow. It doesn't matter if it's a dedicated player, a game console, an add-on, or a laptop computer, all these devices should be included in the whole equation.

Quote:

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The strategy of including the BluRay drive in the PS3 is being mirrored by Toshiba in their inclusion of HD DVD drives in their laptops. It adds to the number of devices out in the wild that can increase sales of HD DVD movies even if their main purpose is running business/corporate software.

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This is the reason why Toshiba gave away 5 free movies for each HD DVD laptop sold in the UK recently.

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The game console's a game console's a game console. Get over it.

I could care less what PR advertising waffle you've bought into that the verdor has come up with to make you (or anyone else) feel good about buying a game console.

"Media centre". LMAO.

It's a game console.

It's also a Playstation game console and therefore is guaranteed to sell in the multi-millions (even if it is a bit of a flop in it's own market) and some of those owners will buy Blu-ray movies for it.

Like that was ever not going to happen.

It also turned out to be, for now, to be the better Blu-ray player (compared to most of the offerings currently available) so some adults in the a/v market bought one.

Big deal cos at heart they are not the bulk of the ownership or even a very large segment of the ownership (and if you want to dispute this & say that they are then, considering the dreadful retail movie disc attachment rates PS3 has, what does that say about it all, eh?).

Blu-ray is PS3 and like it or not PS3 is a game console.

Originally posted by duckNrun:

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This post is a little off topic as it doesn't really discuss the virute or validity of the numbers as posted. But since articles like this tend to result in discussions that spiral downwards into the realm of 'who rules and who drools' (lol) it will fit in just nicely :-)


I think you will find that the Joe Average consumer has no favorites in this format war. What Average Joe wants is to watch a movie that (s)he wants to watch and to do it on a tv not a monitor screen.

People (both the tech savy and the Average Joe) I know are now debating/considering the purchase of players for both formats. Buying one player first and then following it up with the other format not so far down the road. Most don't care about the techie pros and cons like us card carrying members of the 'nerd herd' do. Most don't spell microsoft as M$ or as MicroShaft nor do they spout off about the evils of Sony's DRM, rootkit fiasco or anti-consumerist behavior. None of them argue and name call over press releases touting their numbers and superiority over the other format.

They buy one format and when they go to try to get a HD movie and find it is only offered in the other format they then fully realize that no matter which format they started with IF they want to watch all the movies they are interested in watching in HD they need both formats.

Arguing over why your choice is best, or is going to 'win' is just mental masturbation or pure fanboyism. You have your preferances (whatever they may be) and that's fine. Other people have their own preferences and that's fine too.

But for those of you are taking this whole BD/HD-DVD thing so personally you really need to step back and get a grip-- or a life

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Originally posted by duckNrun:

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This post is a little off topic as it doesn't really discuss the virute or validity of the numbers as posted. But since articles like this tend to result in discussions that spiral downwards into the realm of 'who rules and who drools' (lol) it will fit in just nicely :-)


I think you will find that the Joe Average consumer has no favorites in this format war. What Average Joe wants is to watch a movie that (s)he wants to watch and to do it on a tv not a monitor screen.

People (both the tech savy and the Average Joe) I know are now debating/considering the purchase of players for both formats. Buying one player first and then following it up with the other format not so far down the road. Most don't care about the techie pros and cons like us card carrying members of the 'nerd herd' do. Most don't spell microsoft as M$ or as MicroShaft nor do they spout off about the evils of Sony's DRM, rootkit fiasco or anti-consumerist behavior. None of them argue and name call over press releases touting their numbers and superiority over the other format.

They buy one format and when they go to try to get a HD movie and find it is only offered in the other format they then fully realize that no matter which format they started with IF they want to watch all the movies they are interested in watching in HD they need both formats.

Arguing over why your choice is best, or is going to 'win' is just mental masturbation or pure fanboyism. You have your preferances (whatever they may be) and that's fine. Other people have their own preferences and that's fine too.

But for those of you are taking this whole BD/HD-DVD thing so personally you really need to step back and get a grip-- or a life

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Originally posted by goodswipe:

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Very true and I also think you will find that the Joe Average consumer doesn't want to spend a boat load of money on an undecided format which in turn, isn't good for Blu-Ray. What is there cheapest "standalone" out there right now...399?

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Originally posted by 26r0cK:

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If it "plays Blu-ray", thus it is considered a "Blu-ray PLAYER" LOL. So PS3 should count. As considering stand-alones, to me stand-alone players is if you can just plug it into a wall-outlet and plays, then it is a stand-alone hehe. I dunno if the Xbox360 HD-DVD add-on should count because you cant plug it into the wall, you need an Xbox360. Therefore, that's so not a stand-alone. Sure you can hook up the add-on to a PC, but then that should be counted with the HD-DVD Drives should it not instead of being counted as a stand-alone? Unless the Blu-ray player and the HD-DVD figure included the PC drives then the Xbox360 add-on can be included. IMO.

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Since Sony has been making consoles they have alway taken into count that they wanted to sale a multimedia console this hasn't change so why Sony got to change because people got a issue with it,? because there is a format war going on & to curve number in there favor.If it plays BD or HD-DVD media how is it not a standalone this has got to be the most asinine thing i've heard in awhile.So if its that way then if we are going to call BR & HD-DVD players standalone let strip the DVD-ROM drive out also because all BR & HD-DVD player are not standalones because it support DVD-ROM format to.

LOL, I'm sorry but I just have to post this again...

Some of you people seem to have forgotten what the definition of "standalone" is:

A standalone device is able to function independently of other hardware. This means it is not integrated into another device.

Hmmmm, what does this mean?

It means that the PS3 is not a standalone and should not be included in the figures the BDA is comming up with. I think it belongs in a separate category in and of itself. Face it, Blu-Ray is on a piggyback ride with the PS3.

How bout dem' apples...

You can't really include the PS3 because not everyone will want to buy BR movies... But then again, for the same price, why wouldn't those who want a BR player not want a PS3? Even when I go into Sony stores, they always say you can buy the PS3 for the same price or less.

So under that logic, nothing is a stand alone. You can plug an HD-DVD player in and play things other than HD-DVDs, right? Therefore, under your logic of what a standalone is, it is not a standalone. It uses hardware other than just a violet diode/parts strictly for HD-DVD reading, no?

so i suppose if we don't count them as standalone players then wouldn't that mean that the HD-DVD attachment rate argument is nullified now? blu-ray attachment rate would be friggin outrageous, not that it matters anyway as i am not a big advocate on attachment rate statements anyhow. im just merely saying...

also, i'd bet the farm that there were atleast some (a minority of people) who actually did buy the ps3 as a standalone unit when it released. it was the cheapest alternative to playing Blu-ray movies and actually was touted as being the better player when compared to the other blu-ray "standalone" units. not only could one use it as a movie player but with the card reader all he/she have to do is plug your card into the slot and view your photos on the bigscreen or even surf the web. Notice nothing was mentioned of playing any games.

the ps3 originally retailed for $599 and $499, don't sit there and say its primary purpose is for gaming as obviously with such a HIGH pricepoint it was meant for something more. have we already forgotten the reports of the system retailing for around 700+ dollars? why? the inclusion of Blu-ray. Just because society or even YOU (anyone broad term here) feel that since it has the Playstation brand associated with it, that it is just a gaming machine. Its intended purpose in my mind is a little more complex and i think sony was thinking alone those lines as well.

Guess I’ll try and compromise a little bit here, if you don't like using the term "standalone" or sony or the BRgroup using said term, you do make sense and i can understand. but it doesn't negate the fact that the system is still a Blu-ray player. i really don't think that even if they change their terminology and say 'sales of blu-ray capable players is so n so' people would be pleased. they would still argue well what percentage are actually using them as blu-ray players, attachment rates, overall market share, and so on.

there is no pleasing everyone so round and round we go, when it will stop, no one knows!

btw i don't have sony embroidered pillows, bedsheets, teeshirts, etc., but i do realize that in order for me to get what i feel is the most out of my ps3 "investment," is for Blu-ray to prevail (yes i use it to play both games and movies, probably own about the same of each). the increasing popularity of Blu-ray, means the more it'll sell, the more it sells the greater the chance the CONTENT i want to own will be available (blu-ray does have the upperhand in studio support). thus given all that, the better off i will be and thats all i really care about.

eatsushi, i also think makes a great point. if looking at movie prices and the average consumer he's logic does hold. actually wasn't it not too long ago that a report on here said sales of dvds focused on the older titles rather than the new releases? why, because of their attractive prices.

Originally posted by hade:

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eatsushi, i also think makes a great point. if looking at movie prices and the average consumer he's logic does hold. actually wasn't it not too long ago that a report on here said sales of dvds focused on the older titles rather than the new releases? why, because of their attractive prices.

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Per usual what could be a civil thread (like it's supposed to be) starts going south because some members just don't get it.

Quote:

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But for those of you are taking this whole BD/HD-DVD thing so personally you really need to step back and get a grip

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Agree!

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Big deal cos at heart they are not the bulk of the ownership or even a very large segment of the ownership (and if you want to dispute this & say that they are then, considering the dreadful retail movie disc attachment rates PS3 has, what does that say about it all, eh?).

Blu-ray is PS3 and like it or not PS3 is a game console.

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who cares!!! that is the simple fact of life.. pick up any playes you want.. either HD or Blue ray.. to be honest by the time this crap is done once and for all there is probably gonna be super HD tv or something ont hat manner.. then u gonna have to buy a new tv and a new playes.. lets face it people is the fact of life.. it only is gonna get better so stop worying who is gonna win this and just pick one so u can enjoy Hd tv while it lasts.. then you can move on to somhting better.

This is quite a small number in my eyes for them to take a substantional lead they will have to increase their numbers 10 fold. HD DVD is not that far behind they mostly are level pegging at the moment.

Originally posted by vinny13:

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You can't really include the PS3 because not everyone will want to buy BR movies... But then again, for the same price, why wouldn't those who want a BR player not want a PS3? Even when I go into Sony stores, they always say you can buy the PS3 for the same price or less.

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