PS3 will win console war say researchers

sony will rule us all

Sony will do very well indeed but I don't think that that will be because of games but because it is the cheapest Blu-ray player in existence. I am not saying that it will do bad in the video game market but I am saying that the majority of their "ruling" will be because of the Blu-ray capability and if someone buys this as a Blu-ray player then they might as well use it for games. That is how I think, they will make money but once again, IT IS NOT because of their games!

lol, ur kinda right

s3a- maybe in the first year, it'll be the cheapest Blu-ray player, but as time goes on, you'll find Blu-ray drives for much cheaper. i do believe sony will win in the end and i believe a large portion of their victory will be because of their exclusive game lineup

Quote:"i believe a large portion of their victory will be because of their exclusive game lineup" ____________ True, but I still think that the Blu-ray capability will have a greater effect than their exclusive game lineup, like you said for atleast the first year then that won't be the case anymore.

It will because they are offering more for a better price

"Sony will do very well indeed but I don't think that that will be because of games but because it is the cheapest Blu-ray player in existence." Well if Blu-ray doesnt last they can use it play games.

@s3a, How can you say that their games wont have some impact. The best lineup of games comes out of Nintendo, at least fun-family friendly games, but c'mon, 360 is going to have the weakest lineup of games, same as X-box. Of course Halo 3 wil put up monster numbers, and Oblivion has done well, but beyond that, the rest of the lineup will probably be available on all consoles. That has always been Microsoft's downfall as a result of their late arrival to the video game industry. The bulk of purchases will, as you all say, will come from the Blu-ray player, but it will have the greatest staying power because of that line-up brought out by SquareEnix. Personally,Im not jumping at the prospect of buying a $600 console on the first day of release. I'll probably wait a year or two when they improve on the backward capability, till then I'll be playin Wii

$600=the next 3DO. I think that after a year when the price goes down a bit the system will take off significantly. If it doesnt, than it can join the 3DO club. :)

I knew when I read the thread title this would get ugly....yes its great to think about what is going to happen, but untill there are numbers to support your thoughts, its just talk.

Personally, I disagree, 600$ plus tax for a console really doesn't compute well with me. For the same price, you get a new computer tower, that has more advantages and less limitations than the PS3.

Omg plz sony obviously paid to have researchers say that ps3 is going to lose

I am not trying to be funny but I just think that too many people are PS junkies and just think that because PS1 and PS2 ruled then PS3 will dominate once again. Maybe within 2-4 years it will but I truly think that I will not initially. Seriously the cost will be a hard sell. I don't care how many people really will want this game system, how many people can afford a game system at $500-600 dollars and that doesnt even include accessories and games. Games is what sells a system. PS2 dominated because if its libary and how can some take advantage of the library when the system is more than $500 and then games may range from $60-75 each? If Microsoft can improve its library and develop some killer apps then I think that it has a strong chance of closing the gap. If this Microsoft "Ipod killer" really does have desirable design and features and have a reasonable price then this may also help with the Xbox 360 because you know Microsoft will tout the features you can take advantage of with this and a microsoft personal media player device. Plus I keep hearing people tout that Blu ray on PS3 is the cheapest available but so what if games and movies don't really take advantage of what blu ray may have to offer. Most of the games I bet will not even be on Blu-ray format since the PS3 also plays dvd and audio cd's. Have you guys seen a blu ray movie? Nothing special than the special addition dvd's. Definitely not worth the cost right now. Also can you play the PS3 on a analog tv set? I don't know but everything I read seems to be for the digital age with its HDMI inputs and all I was just wondering.

I seriously dont think so, the price is too high and if blueray fails the ps3 will have a major set back. I dont plan on buying it until around 2009 when it will be nice an cheap and all the games I want will be too. I dont think Snowny will dominate this time and I do think the Wii will sell a hell of a lot more than 11 million units; most likely they will sell 11M in the first year. Of course this is my opinion and I do not like Snowny anyway, they make JUNK.

Also keep in mind that games on the 360 and PS3 will look the same as developers already stated that they wont invest in the higher output for ps3. Games are going to be made for the 360 and then ported over to the PS3; of course this is only for games that will come out on both systems. In order for anyone to notice the difference HD DVD and Bluebetamaxray will offer you will need a new HD tv with 1080i at least. Almost NO GAMES WILL BE REALEASED IN 1080p. Even MGS4 wont be released that way and Kojima usually has the most advanced tech in his games. Dont be fooled people, the PS3 is very difficult to develope for and there WILL NOT be many exclusive games this time around, to expensive for publishers to pick just one system. I think the 360 is the way to go with nextgen and the Wii is the best innovation around. again just my 2 cents

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I don't care how many people really will want this game system, how many people can afford a game system at $500-600 dollars and that doesnt even include accessories and games.

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Omg plz sony obviously paid to have researchers say that ps3 is going to lose

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Here it tis boi's straight up this game system is gonna make record achievments just like ps1 and ps2. Sonys got the backing to do it ,there the biggest maker of electronic shit out there.Which means they have the money to play with whatever they want . Why do you think a company would go ahead and make a game system that they arent even gonna make much money on individually ,"they said they would only make like 50 bucks off each one cause of all the technoligy that went in to it" they know this will be the next new thing . And yes novicebb {I am not trying to be funny but I just think that too many people are PS junkies and just think that because PS1 and PS2 ruled then PS3 will dominate once again. Maybe within 2-4 years it will but I truly think that I will not initially.} THIS WILL BE A BIG FACTOR what does sony have that nintendo lost somehow A HUGE FOLLOWING!!!! lol im already lined up to get first dibs on these bad boys when they start selling i mean what do you think they will sell for this time on the streets .Ya know when stores run out and have waiting lists??? $1000 $2000 maybe? we'll find out soon.

>.> the analysts don't know crap about videogames... these guys were saying Wii will win (http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7756.cfm) now these people are talking Sony. I wonder how Sony feels about being included as a console system... -side note, I've been seeing commercials for blue-ray discs. Can't say the same for HD-DVD...

Man PS3 Sucks w/ it’s Spiderman font. Na Just kidding, I love it.

Why do we even give a shit though?? We aren't making any money from any of this so we shouldn't really care who wins or loses or ties. If I was top dog at Sony, Microsoft, or Nintendo then I would probably care but I'm not.

MS is coming out with HD-DVD at about 200 to 250 as the cheapest HD player around. For watching movies vs. storing files HD DVD is pretty much equal (better?) than BluRay. Of course, just a few early models of either are actually out. Given that there still is no advantage with Sony as being the HD content provider (assuming they share their video/film archives). You also have to remember that by 2011 (or even 2008) the stand alone players will be about 300 USD, hardly a compelling reason to run off and get either game console, if you weren't a gamer. Even if Sony does have a larger market share in 2011, they already have lost much of it. This is good for the consumer. If not a superior product, why would/should any one player be dominant? Look beyond today as tomorrow might just be a little different. The article was talking about 2011.

C'mon now, MS is offering the very least of all 3 systems, it doesnt fully commit to the "format war" and it doesnt really offer any "new" style of gaming (I put new in quotes because I was at a Gameworks in Vegas and saw the same motion sensor technology from nintendo in like the 80's...it was like a glove you used to play mike tyson boxing) And BostonC, you should just hand in your gamer card now, the article is going on the idea that the MATURITY of the console reaches its max roughly 5 years after its release, meaning that after the dust has cleared, Sony will be on top. In order for that to happen, it needs to dominate for at least 3 of the 5 years, which it undoubtedly will. You can't lose market share when you haven't gotten into the market yet. Everybody is assuming that this war goes the way of the format war, the reality is MS has already thrown in the towel as far as the format war is concerned, by not going whole hog behind HD-DVD, it has basically said "Hey we can always just release an external bluray player"... 360 will sell, but a half hearted effort from Microsoft will lead to weak market share P.S. Lethal_B- I don't mean to be a prude but I think the phrase you were looking for in the article was "clear sailing"

blue ray wont be in most homes for YEARS to come, too many sony junkies are speaking on tech. that they have not done research on. ps3 as a cheap blue ray player... so what??? regular dvd's will STILL be around for a good while longer. most people will not upgrade thier entire home theatre system just for the sake of blue ray.

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MrToast, 19 August 2006 20:51 Also keep in mind that games on the 360 and PS3 will look the same as developers already stated that they wont invest in the higher output for ps3. Games are going to be made for the 360 and then ported over to the PS3; of course this is only for games that will come out on both systems. In order for anyone to notice the difference HD DVD and Bluebetamaxray will offer you will need a new HD tv with 1080i at least. Almost NO GAMES WILL BE REALEASED IN 1080p. Even MGS4 wont be released that way and Kojima usually has the most advanced tech in his games. Dont be fooled people, the PS3 is very difficult to develope for and there WILL NOT be many exclusive games this time around, to expensive for publishers to pick just one system. I think the 360 is the way to go with nextgen and the Wii is the best innovation around. again just my 2 cents

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P.S. Lethal_B- I don't mean to be a prude but I think the phrase you were looking for in the article was "clear sailing"

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Aww. I like Xbox 360, lol.

I`ll buy the PS3,maybe in 2010.But i`m sure getting the Wii this year.

I bought the PS2 because compared to the DVD players at the time, it was a reasonable investment. I won't be buying the PS3 because I can't afford a HDTV so there is no reason for me anyway to have something that can play the new format of DVD's when I still haven't made the full transition to DVD yet. Just my two cents.

"Of course Halo 3 wil put up monster numbers, and Oblivion has done well, but beyond that, the rest of the lineup will probably be available on all consoles."- Guess you don't read much, but come this christmas if PS3 actually manages to launch this year no one's going to care because of Saint's Row and Gears of War. There are no highly anticipated titles for PS3. "A lot of people. To a lot a people $600 really isn't that much especially if they want it. Even for the people who can't really afford it a lot of them will still get one. "- And what world are you living in. Like dude said, contrary to what you think, most are not going to drop 700 dollars on this system (700 being the price of the system plus one game and taxes). The games alone cost almost 100 dollars and dont know if you noticed but blueay hasnt exactly taken off. Besides, everyone keeps talking about how itll be the cheapest bluray player on the market, and you can rest assured that just as the dvd player that caim loaded on the system before it the bluray player for ps3 will suck pretty bad. Sorry to break it you, but you get what you pay for. "I seriously dont think so, the price is too high and if blueray fails the ps3 will have a major set back."- Dont worry, bluray will fail and this all in account to the pricing. And I'm not necessarily talking about consumers but movie distributors as well who pay expensive royalties which arent as high in the Hd camp. Another more candid reason is the name itself, which ive discussed before, which doesnt connect with people as immediatly as HD-DVD does( it sounds more official than bluray). Consumer price is another factor to consider this giving HD-DVD the advantage as well because of the fact they're selling a player as cheap as 500 dollars from the get go. Another factor to consider is the lack of Universal's support for Sony, which for intents and purposes makes alot of the best movies. microsoft is also a factor to consider, them being the behemoth company that controls personal computing who can at there own discretion program HD support into the windows format that everyone will undoubtly buy( there going to tear apple a new one as well but thats another story). "Omg plz sony obviously paid to have researchers say that ps3 is going to lose"- ???? Im assuming you meant that they paid researchers to say theyll win. "For the part "How hard is to write on PS3" i remember they said the same about ps2 and look how big is library of ps2 games."- And once again i ask of all those games, how many does anyone actuallt play. I don't about you but i just spent my first year in college and we never played ps2. Noone really does anymore because it has no GOOD games and Final fantasy is pointless once you beat it( and grand turismo plz noone likes those kind of racing games no more). "I bought the PS2 because compared to the DVD players at the time, it was a reasonable investment."- Yep and be honest it had nowhere near as good of features as a normal dvd player and didnt support as many formats and codecs. Bottomline- is gonna fall flat on its face and the only ones who care are Sony fanboys. I cant wait to see PS3 flop. O yeah and like i said before, that crap system isnt coming out this year despite what they tell the public, just wait.

fanboys are SO annoying!

sony will more than likely retake the market, but that would mean they would have lost it in the first place, which isn't happening anytime soon. there are quite a few people who will never pay that kind of $$$ for any system. most people seem to say "i'll wait for a price drop" so i think its understandable to say sony will dominate once again in a few years. the ps2 is still outselling the 360, so even if the ps3 is not as popular as some want to believe, sony still has another leg up on their competition. i think the ps3 is a bargain for the price, but i also understand what it really offers. those who say its overpriced or who think they can buy a $600 computer with the same potential are simply kidding themselves....

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hade

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well, thats interesting to hear. Ill have to agree that we cant trully trust analysts. All they give is educated guesses before the competition is out. Just the other day they said the xbox 360 would win. But still jugeging from their research it seems like a prety close race between microsoft and sony, 44%&40%. Close indeed, poor nintendo. Peace Out!

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Bottomline- is gonna fall flat on its face and the only ones who care are Sony fanboys. I cant wait to see PS3 flop. O yeah and like i said before, that crap system isnt coming out this year despite what they tell the public, just wait.

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i agree with Jasper44,esppecialy with the ebay thing, the 360 was $900. Plus, yes someone understands, GAME SYSTEM not a computer that can't do crap, a DECENT computer is $1,300, plus this is Blu-ray not a dvd, this is the best price we could ask for, as long as the library stays BIG and the games are up to par, sony will sell,and the PS3 will be sold out in munites on release.

LOL, Everyone taking shots at the King(Sony) i see .You guys can talk to you turn Blue in the Face but until Microsoft or Nintendo out sell Sony.Sony will be King on the block like it or not Sony here to stay for along while.

Beciuse of the price the Wii will get the best momentom from it and beat Sony in the short run,SOny has made a Entertamnet center beast and is looing ahead 4 or 5 years MS is stuck with its wonky Xbox upgrade that in bad need of good games and stable hardware. High def is ok but not much mroe than 30% incress in resalution thus not makeing it worth overhauling our entertainment center unless your a moive nut. PS3 Is realy built for after the next 3 or 4 years its not going to do to well in the frist 3 years,BLue ray might fail as the moive format but then Rioch has a working blue ray/HD DVD drive in 2 or 3 years time it might be sold thus makeing the format wars null and viod. WII Price and inovation you cant beat it,the WII is built for a slow and stedy run as well as haveing a great frist year. 360 This system blows only if you are a Xbox fan will you overlook all of its issues in the next year all the hardware woes will be delt with I hope,the games realy arent nothing new the 360 is already amiss in stagnation altho Dead riseing is neat but I degress the system is in bad need of alot of good games and in 3 or 4 years it will already show its age while the PS3 will be good to go for almsot 5 more. --------------------- svtstang Ya but even a idoit can see the Ps3 do the most over a 5 year time span,the 360 is wonky and will show its age by then,the WII is that little cute cheap usefull inovative gadget we all must have. MrToast and tell me oh great toast person how the 360 is somehow much better hardware than the PS2? it was bugy and all but nothign as bad as the 360,god at least Sony tries and beta tests its bloody systems...altho nothing like nintendo they take the cake for doing a system right the frist time. BostonC thats an ADD ON to the 360 add it up its about 500

Sony will do verryyyy good...if they take advantage of the blu rays capacity then theyll have some incredible games..can anyone confirm that more ps2s are being sold than the 360??if thats true then sony will definitely win the war..kinda sad if ps2 sells more than 360

tubacuba Mmmmm I dotn think so becuse theres still a limit to howmuch data you have running at a time,plus fillign a BR with voices music sounds and well game would cost 2 or 3 times what Oblition did and thats even with upgrade the tetuxes and such,however with BR you do get the chance to have no limit on stored data that should make soem intresting games whenever they use it and I dont see them useing it for a minuim of 3 years. right now the WII looks great to me and I still ahve to g et a Xbox >< LOL

Zygfryd the human eye cant see past 30 fps thus makeing the whole 60FPS anything saying 60FPS is a marketing scheme to lure in thos that only want mindless power. the PS3 can do it but not fully proly will take 3 or so years for them to ahve games in full 60 fps but even then its not needed,altho I can see some tricks gimmicks that would make fps more neat when at full 60FPS however msot fps need better design more than they need more power.....and well...that goes for most games....

here is the sales chart showing the ps2 outselling the 360 until june(that is all it went up to). according to these numbers, the only time the 360 has trumped the ps2 was April. http://videogamecharts.com/page3.html and this is from an article stating more of the same

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Like a good soccer match, the monthly sales battles between the Xbox 360 and the PlayStation 2 have a lot of exciting back-and-forth. So far, however, the PlayStation 2 has remained in control of the match, outselling the Xbox 360 in six of the seven months since the Xbox 360's debut. The situation is a strong reminder that Sony's PS3 gamble, while huge, has a little more cushioning than is commonly recognized. Since the release of the Xbox 360, Microsoft has averaged 246,000 console sales each month in the US, while the PS2 has seen an average of 473,000 units—a number bolstered by an estimated 1.5 million sales in December alone. Leaving out December, Sony's average drops to 302,000 per month, still outpacing the Xbox 360 by a healthy margin. According to sales estimates from the NPD Group (conveniently collected here and here), the Xbox 360 won its first sales victory against the PS2 in April, outselling Sony's offering by nearly 90,000 units (295,000 units in all). The end of Microsoft's supply problems may have accounted for the leap in sales, but May estimates showed a return to more settled buying trends: Xbox sales decreased by 74,000 units, while the PS2 climbed to more than 231,000 units total, recapturing the lead with roughly 11,000 more consoles sold. In short, Sony's PS2 sales remain remarkably strong, and with recent price cuts trimming the system down to US$129, sales are expected to stay strong throughout the year. Sony has sold more than 100 million PS2s, and this year they can expect to add another three million from the US market alone. The PS2 market isn't "winding down" in any meaningful sense. In closing, I should note that we caution against putting too much weight on these sales estimates, especially in a comparative sense. The PS2 and the Xbox 360 are at opposite ends of their "console lifecycles," and the two are priced quite far apart as well (e.g., $129 vs. $299, PS2, Xbox 360 Core respectively). We are impressed, however, by the PS2's continually strong sales, even as many gamers turn their eyes towards the next-generation. These sales will help keep Sony strong and stable, even in the face of a disappointing PlayStation 3 launch, should fate take that turn. We're not suggesting that it will. To the contrary, Sony's track record in this area is hard to bet against, even factoring in the questionable decision to push Blu-ray. As long as PS2 sales remain this strong, Sony can weather bumps in the road, should there be any.

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While the Xbox 360 has seen healthy sales in the Western world, it has scarcely 1 percent of the Japanese game market.

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hade Only the xbox fanboys dont handle the reality that the Xbox/360 is a US console and thus and one to only get 1/3rd or less of the market. And I bet you the Xbox only stole 5% or less sales from Sony and Cube. the 360 is in bad shape right now sure I can see its potinal but I jsut dont see MS doing much about it. The PS3 well do ok over a 3 or 6 year peroid in the next year or 2 I see it sellign ok to well in japan and bad to ok in the US.I'll give t a 40/60 chance to flop becuse of the price but I give the 360 a 50/50 chance to burn out,and dosent MS have the Xbx2 planed for 3-4 years from now?

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Guess you don't read much, but come this christmas if PS3 actually manages to launch this year no one's going to care because of Saint's Row and Gears of War. There are no highly anticipated titles for PS3.

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The games alone cost almost 100 dollars and dont know if you noticed but blueay hasnt exactly taken off.

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Another factor to consider is the lack of Universal's support for Sony, which for intents and purposes makes alot of the best movies.

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microsoft is also a factor to consider, them being the behemoth company that controls personal computing who can at there own discretion program HD support into the windows format that everyone will undoubtly buy

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Yep and be honest it had nowhere near as good of features as a normal dvd player and didnt support as many formats and codecs.

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Just a quick a support for tycobb, The fact that Microsoft produces the 360 doesn't mean it can say who will win the format war, Blu-ray and HD-DVD are pieces of HARDWARE not software, Microsoft isn't a GIANT in the hardware industry, in that way, it yields to manufacturers like Hewlett-Packard Compaq, Dell, Toshiba and SONY And as a final note to the naysayers about PS3's GIGANTIC cost, at least here in America, cost has never been a problem because of everybodys favorite burden CREDIT!

tycobb the only thign I can comment on is I have seen new collector tin games go for 60-90 and normal games go 50-80,add another 20 or 30 for a BR or HD game and well you've hit 100. but still games right now are doing good to hit 80 with shiping. Hell I rmeember paying 90 soemthign for Phsanty Star 4 and FF3 and thats with overnight....aahh....when games where worth every dime..how I miss thos days...

@Ankoku that's a very good point.There is no body but ms as far as an os that's compatible with all the leading apps ,games,and accesories therefore most pc manufacturer's like dell have no choice but to go with windows.This isn't true though on the hardware side like you said. Think about it though they also buddle aol and java which are both microsoft enemies.microsoft wants you to go with msn not yahoo,google,aol,java etc.but that doesn't stop companies like dell,hp,gateway from including that stuff buddled and pre-installed. Let's not forget sony also makes pc's lol. @zippy where? Sony has NOT released the price of the games we can speculate and personally I think they will be $70 but the fact is no one can be certain until the price point is released.The fact is bluray will have more space and therefore more game.At first the space won't matter but by 2008 it will.

These guys are so full of crap! Sony is not going to win this round. The average person nor gamer cares about BluRay or HD-DVD. Nobody's gonna buy this just because you can get the BluRay cheaper this way. Games haven't even exceeded a regular DVD yet. Look at Ovlivion. The PS3 is going to be too hard to program for. It's too pricey for the average gamer. Who's gonna go out and buy an HDTV just to get the full benifits of a PS3? Not too many. All you Sony nut riders need to realize that this just isn't their time this go around. They're sales will start off slow, but will pick up when the prices drop no doubt. By then MS and Nintendo will have already gained too big of a lead. Look out MS and Sony. Make way for the Wii. Affordable and more appealable to the average gamer. Who doesn't want to play all of the old Nintendo games? Parents are gonna love this system for their kids and for themselves. Sony needs to stick to making TVs for MS and Nintendo. They'll make more money. HA!

tycobb Look at pricieng it goes up almsot stiadly every few years by 08 or 010 games that are now 50 will be 60 or 70,but th hidden inflation aside you have a point I dout by then blank BR/HD media would be more than 10 a pop. heh and more game = more price compare Oblivion to any short action or fighter title its at least 10 more,altho some games start out around 60,you can see where its going in order t amke a prfit on these ahrder to make games full of depth a price hike of 10-20 will come into paly,it all adds up in the end tho. I would not dout by 010 we will have to shell out 80 or 90 for nomral short low end games......*shudders* I hope its just mndless fear ><

OneDeep heres the trick tho in 4 years the PS3 will gain what it lost in irs frist 2 or 3 years,MS cant make it out of the states and thus fails on that alone,the WII will conqure the short run it will bash MS into the ground the 360 will only do well in the states and then only with Xbox fans and a few gamers than want soemthing slightly diffrent and ahve the cash to mess with it.

@zippy I know the price of games goes up that doesn't mean they will be $100 which was the whole point.I agree with you though except for that and the 2010 thing.Games were $50 in 2000 when the ps2 came out and there are still $50 5 1/2 years later. They do get more expensive every new gen but not that much of a jump to assume from $50 to $100 @OneDeep that's just your opinion.

@ Zippy and your dvd player problem. You could just burn their movies using the jump straight to movie feature with AnyDVD so when they stick it in, it will go straight to the movie.

tycobb Umm I seen oblivion for 69 in some stores so in some cases new games are 60-70 easy. SO in all games ahve come up allite and will go up some more,the more effort or thigns they put into a game the more cost the more the price....but thats not goign to be for another few years yet. still 30 for a medicore game aint worth it..... Jasper44 and if they start watchign mreo movies that emans I'l have to burn 10+ moives a month and swap them out with the real thign becuse they being old wouldnt know the diffrance >< bascily I need a smart DVD palyer thier willign to shell out 100,but I am betting even china is not willing to piss off the FBI and hollywood and make skiping DVD palyer that jsut starts a movie...I mena auto taping on menu to get to menu for changeable set amount of time then doing so with paly is all I am really looking for....

Well then you were taken for a fool.Oblivion had a MSRP of $59.99 for 360 and $49.99 for the pc.That was when the game was new right now I could get it for much cheaper than that I were to hunt around.

tycobb I didnt buy it I have merely seen it as much and the Colectors ed hits 70 befor shiping. Hell I would not pay even 50 for it >> mabye 40..... >> ok I am cheap ><

The collectors edition is $69.99 but I would never buy it either at that price lol.Those "special editions" are just a marketing gimmick. It's about the only game for that price and the only reason the publisher thinks they can get away with it is because it's a popular game.At this stage oblivion is to old for even $50 but that's just me.It won't sell diddly compaired to the regular version and will be coming down.

tycobb I got my prey collectors box for 30 used and thats wif shiping,not to bad the game is 10$ more than its worth but then I am picky about gamepaly >> If Doom 3 has great gamepaly and level design then I wuld be happy to give 70 for it but shit the gmae is bland and as basic as WOlfenstine was......hell WOlfenstine had better levels *L* well mabye not but DOOM dose have better levels *L*

First of all,No one cares about Blu-ray. Half the people who have an HDTV don't even have it hooked up properly. No one is even going to notice the difference between DVD and Blu-ray outside of technofiles and Electronics stores. The average consumer is perfectly satisfied with DVD. Second of all, the PS3 is just a trojan horse for Blu-ray. That's all sony cares about. They've been trying for YEARS to have one of their media formats become a standard. They started with beta-max and it failed. They moved on to mini-disc. It failed. Then they tried UMD. It failed. Now they're trying again with Blu-ray. It will fail. It's the sony media curse. Last of all, all the hyped up games outside of Metal gear are on 360. Saints Row, Mass effect,Gears of war,Bioshock,etc.

DJfist you can say the same about Nintendo they clung to carts,UDM has not realy failed at least not in teh when you are takign abotu,UDM is the format for the PSP for games movies was a gimmick its fallign but not dead. Blue ray much like HD DVD are 2 formats akin to + and minus - for DVD the only real diffrance is the hollywood studips are jumping on the band wagon befor the media itself is fully showen the public,with the technolgy ging at the rate it is BR and HD DVD will be able to run on thesame drives in 2-3 years and it wil take that long for hollywood to fall in love with, if anythign BR will fall to 2nd palce and be used for games and storage sicne it can hold more,also SONY DOSE NOT OWN BR its a part of the team trying to get this technoly unlike UDM and minidisc there are no real owners however the companies are tryign to kill themselfs to be frist look at the horrable mismash the 360 for it beign released to damn early,the PS3 is better thought out and wont need to be repalced in 3 years there is a price to be paid almost double of a barebones 360,the 360 is bult as a "new media center" and fails as one becuse it dose not think of the enxt 5 years it bear has the next 2 years planed out,Hardware is being repalced thats a good frist step mabye the 2nd revision will be stable great now we need games ALOT of games.....and fixing the BWC will bring in thos that have put off gettign a Xbx like me :P Bascily the 360 a Xbx upgrade,the PS3 is thinkng ahead and the WII revalutionzeing gameing.

@ the person who said the PS2 doesn't support as many codecs and all, I'd like to say other than the infamous laser lens problem (which burned 3 of my PS2's) I've not had an issue with watching a "backup" DVD-R. I have a question, Blu-ray seems to be a major selling point to the people who think this system is a great buy and a major sticking point for people who probably won't buy it. My question is (and I am asking this honestly) has blu ray dvd's made it on to the store shelves in the United States yet? Yeah there's been commercials and all but I have yet to see a Blu-ray dvd at Wal Mart despite UW Evolution saying it was coming soon to Blu-ray. Again I'd like to say I am not saying/asking this to flame, just a honest question.

the whole laser failure thing (in ps2) is NOT as major as everyone says, i no someone who has a luanch console and has used it hard since brand new and has no problems playing ANY original games or backup movies at all. (bit of lag in GTA games though) Me ive been through 3 consoles, why? because iuse backuped games and expierment with different things. So as long as you leave the console alone and only play original games then your ps2 should work ages. As for the guy who said it was a bad dvdplayer, in what way? movies only use 1 codec for video, and have a few for audio, and being that it has only 2ch output then other codecs arent needed. AS to the whole ps3 vs. 360 vs. WII, the WII is more of a "right now" console and will be dead in a few years, 360 will die even quicker (microsoft should really just focus on producing a half good OS rather than a halfassed one + attempt at console) the ps3 will not imediatly be a success but a 5 years from now it will still be around and will be in its prime, with all the other consoles being at the end of thier lifecycle. The xbox 360 really is a xbox 1.5.

tnarulz Nothing I know of,I do know thier 20ish a disc,I am unsure of the speed,and I hope soemone can answer what the new speeds are if DVD X4 is 2 or 4 times faster than howfast is a BR burning at 1-4X? for 20ish GB I woud ahte to think it'd take 30min to burn a BR disc. I only see BR as potinal for gameing,its just to early yet to bash it for moives with the high chnace of a dual drive being out in 2 or 3 years and ti takes at elast 2 years for a format to becuse a standard.... PS2 lens are the msot annoying things....I wish sony would go Xbxs way and have a soiled drive unit....but they jsut have to cut conners and mroe issues pop up ><

Andrew691 360 a 1.5 xbx *L* I love that ,its sad but ture thus why MS has the xbx 2 planed for some time in 5 years give or take 2. I ahve a dieing DVD palyer it cant read some dvds right half the time,but it reads copies jsut fine 0-o whitch is the damnest thign I ever saw. My pS2 runs well for rebuilt,it dose have slowdown issues I want tog et a 60-80 solderless mod chip for it....but I wonder if I should break down and get a slim line ><,or take it apart and check all the heatsink mats.

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I was fool enough to buy a PS2. It is the most overrated piece of crap. The build quality is non-existant, as a dvd player - well what can I say? It sucks big time. If the PS2 is anything to go by, then I hope all the prats at sony are out of a job soon. They deserve to go bust, bunch of shysters, out to screw the consumer with shoddy goods. They had a name synonymous with quality, there name is now linked to a steaming pile of crap. Now we have these stupid threads like this, "Sony is great", what a load of b*llocks. What the hell do these children know about quality? F*ck all that's what. This place is full of these fanboys, "my X box is better than your PS2, the PS3 will be better than the X box" all full of crap. All full of supposition & guessing. Get a friggin' life. Who the hell gives a crap? The X box suffered dire power supply & overheating problems. Don't you bunch of boneheads realise these companies are just taking the p*ss? They take your (or should I say parents) money, hard earned money, "Mummy I want, I want", & all you get is second rate goods!

Ok so anyone want to answer my 30/60/90 fps question? as I understnad it 30FPS is the starting number for what the human eye can see in smooth motion,60 is even better but most TVs and such are limited to 30fps,but at 60 fps there are more codeing trcks to prevent laging ,of corse with more "math" in between the frames better physics can be done? pulsar and the 360 is oh so better...not...from what I seen the PS2 has about as many issues as the 360 has had so far,meaning the PS2 is a bit better built. If you hate all the games you got..soemtiems it your choice might suck..I know soemtiems mine dose....least half of my 12 PS2 games have been medicoreness ><....altho teh cube has not been much better....neither is the pc..danm I am picky SOB >>

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I was fool enough to buy a PS2. It is the most overrated piece of crap. The build quality is non-existant, as a dvd player - well what can I say? It sucks big time. If the PS2 is anything to go by, then I hope all the prats at sony are out of a job soon. They deserve to go bust, bunch of shysters, out to screw the consumer with shoddy goods. They had a name synonymous with quality, there name is now linked to a steaming pile of crap.

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ZIppyDSM, 20. August 2006 @ 23:53 Zygfryd the human eye cant see past 30 fps thus makeing the whole 60FPS anything saying 60FPS is a marketing scheme to lure in thos that only want mindless power. the PS3 can do it but not fully proly will take 3 or so years for them to ahve games in full 60 fps but even then its not needed,altho I can see some tricks gimmicks that would make fps more neat when at full 60FPS however msot fps need better design more than they need more power.....and well...that goes for most games....

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I never modded any of my PS2's, if I had Best Buy would not have taken them back under their extended warranty I made sure I purchased. I only used it to play games, watch DVD's I made with Nero Vision and Roxio Easy DVD copy. (wasn't sure if I could say that so I just went with backups but it got taken as I modded my PS2 I guess) There are plenty of people who had the laser lens problem and had to get new PS2's because of it or find the guide to find out how to replace the laser lens and do it themselves. On the other hand my Xbox has been hardmodded for 2+ years and not a problem.

I cant say that i have seen too much inflation of video game prices. I think whoever kept saying that is really forgetting that even back in 1985 with the NES some games were $49.99. Sega genesis had a few games between $60 to $70 but today the games usually still run $49.99 so i still dont see too much of inflation in the price of video games.

@Zippy if your thinking of getting a new ps2 you may as wel get a slimline basicly all laser and heat issues have been fixed with the latest versions. Or get a Hard drive in your curent ps2 and play games using that, its what i do so i get no wear at all on my laser. @tnarules the xbox drive lasts, because its basicly just a (IDE?) PC drive with different firmware on it, the ps2 runs a custom built one that has a very cheap laser in it. I thought that the game prices had already been released somewhere? maybe i was just reading estimates or something but i think it was around $70. Hopefully the amount of delays have given sony some time to fine tune the system and remove most bugs before release. One thing i wanted o know, when the ps3 starts using software emulation for ps2 games will it be possible for someone to then modify sonys emu to work on PC, effectivly creating a fully working emu for PC's that can power it?

The PS2 was marketed as a games console & dvd player, the fact remains that as a dvd player it does not work very well, it hardly reads burnt dvds. It's Sonys' fault I didn't read the manual.... Yawn.... Your attempt at sarcasm is indeed a futile one & will not work with me. But hey, I guess all the console kiddies know best. I know a chap who is on his 5th 360..

Zygfryd pretty much know all that,and that msot TVs cant do 60FPS thus makeing is pointless unless you a HD TV. looking past the 30fps limit on most TVs and that humans cant realy precive much past 50,thus 60 is nice but almsot pointless for a console system the PS3 has HDMI so thats a bonus but only higher up 1rst party devs will even try it everyone else will stick to easy stuff and ports forget it. unless the its a port of a PC game that dose 60FPS *L* I dotn see the 360 even able to do 60fps 0-o when the next next gen is out in 5-8 years thats when well see FPSs being pushed...but even then do we want them to they have already abandon fun and inovative gamepaly for bland and boreing gamepaly..its goign to get worse befor it gets better >< lxhotboy I ahvent been buying new new games in almsot 10 years *L* so I guess mostare always around 50 *L* it just seems there gettign less and less worht it. I'll put it to you like this unless I want the game badly I wont spend more than 20 on it 0-o I am somewhat kicking myself for spending 30 on prey Collectors ed 0_o its a nice game but not worth 30.... Andrew691 slime line has USB HDs...errr slim.......damnit I want Dq8 >> . Uummmm PS2 emu??...uumm didnt you get the memo Sony bult PS2 hardware into the PS3. s there wnt be no redeving it for PC and anyway the PS2 is bearly eumed its goign to take 10 years to emu the PS3 right ><

pulsar hate to tell you but reading "homemade" dvds is nto a prper funtion of any 2nd or 3rd gen DVD palyer,becuse DVD writers where not abaliable to the masses.... Sure the PS2 is not perfect, and has issues but in all is alot better than the horror of the 360. and add all the PSX and PS2 games you can paly alot more fun. I have 3 friends that are onthier 2nd ,3rd and 2nd,one enjoys his so much he dosent care,hey if you like it like it I woud be pissed...altho if it had full BWC I would have one by now....

y know, with all the talk on the system, wat are the GAMES gonna cost, im they are on Blu-ray

21Q frist thigns frist the game have to be on BR and thats not for at least 3 years,with that said in 3 year time the price of the bank media will be what under 10? so take soething like Oblivion retail day 1 and add 10 it should not be more than that if anythign it might be less than that,but I feel comfy with a 60 as the starting price,relooking over some stuff most games are 50-60 with rare "high brand" games hitting 70 but even with BR the price should spike to much unless sony is desprate to reclaim more cash and trys to bump up some prices 0_o

Zippy: NTSC format is capable of 60 Hz and PAL is 50 Hz. So 50-60 fps in console games isn't something new, Tekken 3 on PS1 was using maximum fps TV could display, so i realy don't know why you want to go back ? Second, xbox360 and ps3 are made with HDTV in mind, next gen games don't look much better then old gen on normal tv. At some time in the future you have to buy HDTV to get max from your new console. So realy do you wanna play next gen games on your HDTV with 30fps ? Have you ever played in 30 and in 60 ? Take GTA3 for example on PC, first play 30 minutes with frame limiter on and then take it off. If you don't see difference then i don't know whats wrong with you, even my friend with very bad eyes see difference.

Zygfryd .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTSC NTSC is locked at 30 HD can do 60 but all non HD are locked at 30. bascily meaning that games that do 60 will be kinda rare,in 5 years not so rare but it will mostly likely be a option untill HD tvs are a bit more mandatory... ,bah I forgot the 360 has HD outputs >< anyway back to my point 60FPS is limited by your TV and I doutn think alot of non HD tvs will handle it well if at all. and where dose Progressive scan fit into this is that jsut a midway point in HD TV evolution?

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it hardly reads burnt dvds.

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Well I like all the consoles and am the leaderboard of the pc game forum as well(see my sig LOL).So lets just be civilized, I don't give a shit about any of the companies behind the consoles.I hate the fanboy expression lol. http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/360218 http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/372948 Hell I even met zippy on the wii forum LOL http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/358605 etc... @Zygfryd ya got it all wrong bud.The only one capable of 1080p at 60fps for games is the ps3.But bluray offers alot more enhancements over a regular dvd.Here I don't want to explain it again so I'll just copy it from my last one lol. They get bigger in file size with every console generation.With ps1 they were on cd's which held 700mb and that was lot for then so when dvd's came out it seemed like over kill but now games are much bigger.The games will get bigger trust me. This happens with every next gen release. High def cutscenes are impossible with regular dvd just like high def movies are impossible with dvd.They compress the textures on dvd.The dvd game is in "higher" res but the textures are low resolution textures.Get it? The typical video resolution for an NTSC disc is 720 × 480, while a PAL disc is 720 × 576. The specifications for video files on a DVD can be any of the following: * Up to 9.8 Mbit/s (9800 kbit/s) MPEG-2 video * Up to 1.856 Mbit/s (1856 kbit/s) MPEG-1 video * PAL: 720 × 576 pixels MPEG-2 (Called full D1) 704 × 576 pixels MPEG-2 352 × 576 pixels MPEG-2 (Called Half-D1, same as the China Video Disc standard) 352 × 288 pixels MPEG-2 352 × 288 pixels MPEG-1 (Same as the VCD Standard) * NTSC: 720 × 480 pixels MPEG-2 (Called full D1) 704 × 480 pixels MPEG-2 352 × 480 pixels MPEG-2 (Called Half-D1, same as the China Video Disc standard) 352 × 240 pixels MPEG-2 352 × 240 pixels MPEG-1 (Same as the VCD Standard) All MPEG video must be 25 frames per second on PAL DVDs. On NTSC DVDs MPEG-2 video can be either 29.97 frames per second or 23.976 frames per second, (with the player repeating frames via 3:2 pulldown to achieve NTSC's standard 29.97 frames per second) while MPEG-1 video can only be 29.97 frames per second. Interlacing is only supported for MPEG-2 video on both PAL and NTSC DVDs. 16:9 anamorphic video is only supported at 720x576/480. Note that some DVD-hardware or software players may play discs whose MPEG files do not conform to the above standards- however these discs are non-compliant with the specification for DVD-video. Some hardware players will now play DVD-ROMs or CD-ROMs containing MPEG video files - these are 'unauthored' and lack the file structure that defines a DVD-video. (These files contain extra information, such as the number of video tracks, chapters and links to extra features, which DVD players use to navigate a DVD-video). This is not the case with bluray as bluray can output 1080p natively at 60fps.That's great for games.They can also be encoded with high def formats like VC-1 to take advantage of the high def format. Remember I'm talking about games NOT movies.Movies are only shot at 30fps at the most but games are a different story.

@ damondash; boring, boring, boring. There are an awful lot of people who are unhappy with the PS2. Guess you're just another sony fanboy, no doubt from the console forums. We all know what they are like... See ya, wouldn't want to be ya.....

well, so many ps2's are junk, and so many people aren't happy with them that sony arent selling any right now.... thats what you're saying right? cos erm...not true. What you mean to say (as said before) is: i bought a ps2 thinking it would wash my hair...it wont. so its crap. i didnt check if it washed hair, but it doesnt, so its crap. Dan x

I have a 360 and I love it. I also have a PS2 which provided me with plenty of good times over the years. I WILL BUY a PS3 eventually. I'm by no means a fanboy for any company. With those facts being said, I can't WAIT to see the looks on all these people's faces when they unwrap their shiny new PS3 and discover that it is no better than Xbox 360. I wish I could be there just so I could give them a big Nelson from the Simpon's "Ha-ha". I would laugh my ass off when they discover they just payed $600 to play the PS3 version of Madden football (or whatever game they have) and it's exactly the same as the 360 version they mocked two months prior. Do my comments sound fanboyish? To the untrained ear, sure. But what you don't realize is that I hate Sony because they are a dishonest company who makes crappy hardware and the average public still somehow thinks the Sony name is synonomous with quality. They're kinda like that guy we all know that's a womanizing boozehound but the entire town thinks he's a churchgoing saint. I bought FOUR PS2's during it's life cycle. FOUR! That's including them fixing one TWICE. You could argue that MS makes shoddy consoles as well and I might agree. BUT...Everyone gives Sony so much credit. How many people out there won't even give MS or Nintendo a chance because they think Sony can do no wrong? It's that type of attitude that fuels Sony's arrogance. I hope MS at least makes them sweat these next five years. Disc read error my ASS!

@pulsar I know you a little better then most here and I sympathize with your experience about ps2.I know your's really did crap out and that sucks.I know your not a "fanboy" as they say, just like me ,But see my next reply to djfist. @DJfist

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I also have a PS2 which provided me with plenty of good times over the years.

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But what you don't realize is that I hate Sony because they are a dishonest company who makes crappy hardware and the average public still somehow thinks the Sony name is synonomous with quality.

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I bought FOUR PS2's during it's life cycle. FOUR! That's including them fixing one TWICE.

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tycobb *L* so am I right about the 30FPS limit on most reg TVs? ANd if texutes double and tripple wont that kinda be harder for even the PS3 to sustain a stable 60fps rate for games within the frist couple of years? Mabye DJfist is a disgurntled PS2 owner lieks soe fo teh games but had to repalce it one to many times,got a 360 and it was one of the few 360s that runs fine...or hes a fanboy *L* I dont know I've looked at soem numbers soemthign like 1/3rd of PS2 are bad but thats 6 or so years worth,the 360 has about as many faliures and its only 1 year old 0_o. DJfist the reason why everyone gives the PS2 creidt is becue most of most of the work,and theres enough ok to good games on ti to make it worth haveing,if your a gamer you would understand the need to paly the games where they are not wait for them to magicly get ported to 1 system becuse your to cheap to buy the other system. ANd as far as dishonsty goes you's upgrade to a large mac and exerta super cheasy biggies fries dog.. becuse..well...MS...is...ALOT FING WORSE......sony has issues and is far from perfect....but comapred to MS their freaking nintendo........

@ pulsar Y know wat, JUST buy the PS3 and see for your self, K!

@zippy

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so am I right about the 30FPS limit on most reg TVs? ANd if texutes double and tripple wont that kinda be harder for even the PS3 to sustain a stable 60fps rate for games within the frist couple of years?

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@zippy gosh man it's late here.Well I'll catch ya later.I like debating with you cause at least you won't flame me and stoop low.Peace.

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Ok then....Dont...

No-one flame! (no offense) P.S. The words "Fan-Boy" and "Flame" get on ppl's nerves, so...if you are going to use those words, add these words "no offense". That should work :)

tycobb well from what I read 60FPS is jsut alot smoother than 30 fps,its like High def theres a 30-40% boost in what "most" can see,I think the 60FPS thing is mostly that but frankly the cake of it is stable 30FPS for any game no drops or loss of frames,60 is cute but unneeded,sicne it would only distract devs from gameplay and other falling designs these days. I an see it mattering in 5 years thn more HD tvs wil be around so you get better visauls and add 60fps even smoother frames....but without a revamping of game desings it will be mroe of the crappy same with a new paint job. BTW when I stop makeing since kick me I'll try and repharze my question with a higher IQ,and if I get fanboysh ...well..just shoot me :P altho my discontent with the industry is on all levels and at mostly all devs << s3a So your out flame and fanboys but not meaning it eh?? :P LOL

@tycobb: I'm no doubt PS3 is powerful, maybe it got power to process 1080 60p but nor HDMI connection or HDTV standard are possible of displaying that. Remember its digital connection and got its own limits in data per second, and that would be a lot to push. Please show me link that states 1920x1080 60p is in HDTV standard ? From http://www.howstuffworks.com/hdtv.htm PS. Zippy: have you played some games on your PC ? Its not big problem to have even 100fps with full details or more if you have decent PC, so please explain me how it would be so hard for programmers ? I realy don't understand your way of thinking, do you think this will take them months of work ? PS2.Sorry tycobb, yeah you're right i'm stupid, new HDMI 1.3 is capable of 1080p/60 and they wrote that PS3 make use of this version. There is also many more advancements to it. From http://www.hdmi.org/about/faq.asp

"Second, xbox360 and ps3 are made with HDTV in mind, next gen games don't look much better then old gen on normal tv. At some time in the future you have to buy HDTV to get max from your new console." Right now I'm on the fence of buying a 360 or a Wii, if anyone can confirm this it would definitely nudge me off the fence onto the Wii side (not trying to start any arguments a HDTV just isn't in the budget and won't be for a while).

to get the best from 360/ps3 you WILL need a HDTV, games will still look better on SDTV with nextgen consoles than current gen ones. I recomend you wait and get a WII, ive played 360 on an 32" HDTV and it wasnt that great, admitidly it was Project Gotham Racing but it looked equal to if not worse to GT4 on ps2, and the race setup/menu system is way worse.

I can't wait for the PS3 to be released. I can't wait for the reviwers to say the frame rate chugs along occasionaly,or graphics don't look as phenomenal as I was expecting.The Cell...pah,if only they used an Intel or AMD cpu,I would of been interested.PC gamers have nothing to worry about this so called computer in a box. So much hype rides on this console that it stands to be crushed by criticism when it is finaly released,if they can actualy produce it that is. The only thing it has is the Sony name and thats enough to sell it to all the brainwashed out there.

The new Sony PS3 is supposed to be amazing. I researched it a little bit last year and what Sony was doing to improve and change for their customers, so I am extremely excited for it.

sure the PS3 is awesome but I am more worried about devign and design......

After looking over the info available on ad about the Wii I think I'll just wait for a couple of years until HDTV's are a decent price, the programming is all figured out and just get one of those & a 360. In the meantime WoW is certainly good enough to keep people occupied (including myself) especially with the new expansion coming out in Nov.

Yeah, These are the same people that told us that PS2 was capable of generating graphics like those used in Toy Story. We all know how that ended up.

DJfist and MS said they make whole new game system...its a freaking upgrade to te Xbox and they couldnt even get BWC right and the hardware is still fcked up becuse they are slow to get the new revistions out.....at least we know SOny is goign to BS us but but MS bent us over ><

Zygfryd Normal TVs are stil limited to 30FPS ,and the 60most games sue are a frame skiping trick and not realy "60" fps,as for the PS3 doing large textures in 1080p/60 I dotn see them doign it just yet,normal tetutres ya I can see that but new highly detailed....I dout ....it normal takes a dev and sony 2 years to start getign good at deving for a console...altho this one has been held off from lauching so mbaye they ahve had a full 1 or 2 years to dev it.... tycobb I got confued on the whole 30FPS,intrelaceing and 60fps with frameskiping thing for normal TVs >< Game can do it becuse they software tricks can do it. tnarulz the WII is for everyone theres nothing wrong with that :3 hell I am one cheap bastard and I will get one when it comes out,not even got a Xbox yet I want to get one,sicne the 360 is in bad shape right now it aint worth 200 much less 400.

well said, so ps3 then wii then wait till my unkle gives me his 360, he gave his xbox and 25 games when he got the 360 =)

21Q bah the PS3 is 600 right now with a downrade in spes then what it was a year or 2 ago and jsut wait till they get it out and its gets another one *L* altho if you are happy with one I can bug you about it :P

"I can't wait for the PS3 to be released. I can't wait for the reviwers to say the frame rate chugs along occasionaly,or graphics don't look as phenomenal as I was expecting.The Cell...pah,if only they used an Intel or AMD cpu,I would of been interested.PC gamers have nothing to worry about this so called computer in a box. So much hype rides on this console that it stands to be crushed by criticism when it is finaly released,if they can actualy produce it that is. The only thing it has is the Sony name and thats enough to sell it to all the brainwashed out there. "- AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA MEN

Honestly its like i said before. I dont know about anyone else, but the only time i ever play games is with friends. The past couple of years I cant recall one time there was ever a prolonged period of time where we played playstation; it just doesnt happen. For people with friends playstation blows because it was made for people to play it by themself. I know its hard, but jus let go. You know as well as anyone you cant recall the last time you played playstation with more than one person and theres a good reason why. Jus think about it thats all im asking.

@Zygfryd your chart and link isn't even talking about the tv, it's talking about the broadcast signal.You know the signal output from your satellite box or whatever? Yeah the ps3 will have hdmi spec 1.3 which is definitely capable as you now know. There aren't many 1080p tv's out there right now and they are really expensive.It depends from model to model but most of the 2006 ones will be able.They except 60 fps, as you can see 50/60 hz refresh rate. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824112174 quote from my post

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Remember I'm talking about games NOT movies.Movies are only shot at 30fps at the most but games are a different story.

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The Cell...pah,if only they used an Intel or AMD cpu,I would of been interested.PC gamers have nothing to worry about this so called computer in a box.

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Honestly its like i said before. I dont know about anyone else, but the only time i ever play games is with friends. The past couple of years I cant recall one time there was ever a prolonged period of time where we played playstation; it just doesnt happen. For people with friends playstation blows because it was made for people to play it by themself. I know its hard, but jus let go.

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Muhuhahaha so much for games not exceeding dvd's eh? ahaha hate to say I told ya so, but even I never expected it as early as launch!!!!!!!!!! http://www.gametrailers.com/viewnews.php?id=3539

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Muhuhahaha so much for games not exceeding dvd's eh? ahaha hate to say I told ya so, but even I never expected it as early as launch!!!!!!!!!! http://www.gametrailers.com/viewnews.php?id=3539<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< First of all, the article says the biggest PC game to date only requires 7 gigs. So we are meant to believe that Resistance: Fall of man, a Sony published game mind you, requires 3 times more space than the most demanding PC game on the market. I would like to point out my own personal website www.bridgesforsale.com. Take a look a my wide selection of bridges I have for sale. LOL! Have you bothered to look at that game? It looks no better than call of duty 2. Sony feeds the press this BS so they can make Blu-ray look better. "See everyone, Bluray IS Neccessary. PULLEASE!

Why do you think the biggest pc game is 7gb? Because that's what fits on one dvd disc.Pc's don't have enough people with bluray/hd-dvd drives yet and until they do it will be 7gb max. The link is real and it's legit info.It wasn't sony it was the game developer that said that.It's exactly as expected only sooner and yes I have looked at the game and I must say it's impressive.It's still in development and will only look better as time goes by.

Wow Ty, that was a triple banger, nicely done! LMFAO! My two cents on all this, who cares!?! Thought everybody has learned that this leads to nowhere....fast. Its a VIDEO GAME SYSTEM!!!!! Yeah, I agree with those of you that focus on reality, especially that the ps3 is just a way to push bluray technology. But to say the ps3 will fare the best out of the next gen 3 is pretty lame.....still not out for a while yet people already decided on how the outcome will be. I love Sony, but have my doubts how well the PS3 will be taken WHEN IT IS ACTUALLY AVAILABLE!! As of right now, I will hapilly put my money towards the Wii, but will not hesitate to pick up a ps3 when/if it performs as well as a few of you fanboys expect it to.

It's true sony is pushing the bluray thing but as a game format it does seem impressive a 22gb game that is.I don't care about bluray movies to much, but for games bluray looks killer.I certainly have my doubts about ps3 in many catagories. The wii looks killer too I want one.I know games aren't all about raw horse power and graphics(ps3,x360) and the wii will be more affordable.I am awaiting the wii like a kid.I hope they get back on top, because gamecube for me was a not what nintendo is capable of. In terms of games I always loved mario,zelda,metroid etc because that's what I grew up with.I saw the new mario galaxy and it looks awesome.

>>>>>>>>>>>Why do you think the biggest pc game is 7gb? Because that's what fits on one dvd disc.Pc's don't have enough people with bluray/hd-dvd drives yet and until they do it will be 7gb max. >>>> Before you "triplebang" me, realize that you are 100% misinformed about the way PC's play games. PC's do NOT read off the CD/DVD drive the way consoles do. PC's read off their internal hard drive. Ever wondered why when you first put in the disc of a PC game it says "INSTALL"?? The only reason you need to put the disc in the drive when you play is to verify to the program that you have a store bought disc in your possession. There are actually many easily done hacks that eliminate the need for a disc at all after you've installed the game. If a pc game required more than 7 GB it would just be on more than one DVD. It's that simple. Ask anyone who knows thing 1 about PC gaming and they'll tell you the same thing. BTW,DVDs hold 8BG not 7. Nice try....

Whoever thinks the PS3 will sell because it has a bluray player in it is nuts! Nobody cares about the bluray! Think how many people are out there in this world. Then think about how many actually care about a bluray player. Maybe 1 out of a billion. Nobody cares. Who is going to make a movie that is 30gb worth of film? Who the hell would watch something that long? This is kind of like a Bentley. Over priced with nothing special about it. If I had the money I'd still buy a Toyota over a Bentley. Why spend extra money on something you don't need? The only thing it would be good for is putting complete seasons on one disc. That 22gb game is a bunch of BS! Don't let them fool you. If you read it it says 'Reportedly'. That is not cold hard facts. It did not say 'Definetly'. Of course they are going to say anything to make them look good and to try and make gamers hold off and get that overly priced hunk of junk system. Wii will triumph over all of them!

DJfist ......your just not a happy person are you? Even with todays PC games they rarely hit 6GB+ becuse once unpacked from a DVD thats all they unpack,I think FF11 was 8 or 10GB but that has to do with bloatware and not textures and such. Now mind you they get to skip most limits for and the frist BR games arent goign to be all that but what it dose have is ahell of alot of potinail....

The really interesting thing here is how Sony has gone from being the absolute market leader with a market share greater than the main competition combined to merely being expected to have the largest minority share of the market. This despite the claims about the supposedly 'obvious superiority' of PS3. I am no fan-boy for either 'camp' but as for the supposed PS3 'trumph card'? Well in view of the current state of play I defy anyone to see an HD DVD image and compare it to a BR image and tell me that they can see the difference without just guessing (and given some of the reviews that is probably being kind to BR on the basis of it's potential because there are now reviews that have been seriously underwhelmed by the BR performance to date). Cost effectiveness is the big deal and so far BR is around twice the price of HD DVD. HD DVD has been demonstrated to a disc capacity of 45gb. BR to 50 and in one lab report 100gb. Big deal. 45gb is more than enough for any sane idea of a practical application (and both technologies are very immature and no doubt hold surprises yet). So, I don't expect PS3 to romp away with the prize (and neither does this report) and I do think folks who place all their eggs in the BR basket as the answer are kidding themselves. Just as PS2 did not become the 'main' DVD player in the home, anywhere I know of, so PS3 is IMO unlikely to become the next gen HD machine in the home. Frankly if I were an investor in either technology I'd be raging mad cos the failure to reach a workable and consumer-friendly 'solution' to this so-called 'format war' simply means High Def DVD (of whatever format) is going to be one very long slow burn and a hell of a lot less profitable for those concerned (which actually places the BR camp at a major disadvantage as their system has been the far more costly). Carry on with the pissing contest and fan-boy ravings all you like but IMO it really is just failing to see the woods for the trees.

.....one last thing. I forgot to mention. Super-sized games that 'need' vast disc sizes? More like huge amounts of soon to be very tedius FMV (that because it's meant to be such a visual 'wow' you probably can't skip so it becomes even more annoying in a short space of time. I've yet to see the game that really and honestly justified a DL DVD never mind anything bigger.

OneDeep and dont let MS fool you it wont matter of corse it will matter but most likely in 2 or 4 years around the time MS will have to paly catch up and release the Xbx2 if they want to stay in the power game. SOny has a plan for the long run,and msot likely will do well,however its frist 2 years will be hard for it. even iff the PS3 gets another cut in "specs" it will still be the "better" system unless MS is able to win ALOT of devs over. hughjars the PS3 price is BS BUT! it dose seem to have hughe potinal for Console gameing. the 360 is dead to to..mabye in a year or 2 when the hardware is fixed and it has more games and has better BWC but for now its dead..... the WII has everythign a console needs qauilty and inovation,with this nintendo is going do alot of damage to Sony and MS. with the PS3 being 500+ unless you are rich you will ahve all systems day one but its laways been that way I guess.the PS3 has the msot potinal witht the WII and 360 follwing behind,the WII has the most inovation with teh PS3 and 360 follwoing behind,the 360....has...well...its out now 0-o LOL

the whole reason bluray has such crap reviews is becuase its still using a crap codec, on BD's have been releasedb using a real high def. codec. The one thing all that space will be good for is less compression, less compression in games means less loading times and quicker file access. Also with the read speeds of BD games will load way quicker than DVD's.

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That 22gb game is a bunch of BS! Don't let them fool you. If you read it it says 'Reportedly'. That is not cold hard facts

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hughjars there are some thigns they can do BR but frnkly with most normal textures and such..its goign to be 2 or so years befor they can make real good use of it,and thats a good cooling off period for a new system. In all this system is worth getting...but mabye for a desent price of 450 or 400....500 with tax...but right now this min 600+tax for a simi bloated system...bah.... I can wait...I can dig up a Xbox and be happy with it......cant wait for the wii tho...must it wii...mario told meeee......

Andrew691 OMG I see reason within a psot *huggles post* >> sorry << Anyway yup thats why BR is scking mostly bad codecs,as for games it has alot of potinal I dont see the fully tapping it for acouple years tho.

That's exactly what I meant.A standard single layer dvd holds a little over 8gb in most cases.The game comes on the disc.It reads from the hdd of what was installed from the disc which is about 7gb and 8.5 max.Tomb raider legend was 7.4 gb anything over 8.5 would need another dvd or a dual layer which is expensive. bluray as a ps3 game format forces the developers to pay for the expensive bluray disc's and that's why they will want to fill up those discs to the brink.Pc game developers and porters have no one forceing them or incentive to spend the extra money.This is the reason many think ps3 games will be very expensive because bluray costs the devs alot of money per disc. @djfist you are the one that makes no sense at all and are misinformed.

So anyways my thoughts are the ninteno wii and ps3 will probably win this go around. wii seems like a clear choice with a low price point,great exclusives,innovation.This system has to much to offer for its price tag.I admit the lack of HDTV support and raw horsepower is abit of a let down.Nevertheless this will be lots of fun. ps3 has raw horsepower always has had great games.It's truely next gen unlike xbox1.5 .I am concerned about the overall stability and will wait till they come out and see what people say.Hopefully they will show why they are the market leader as they have when they crushed ms and nintendo last time. x360 I think ms did a good job at getting the 360 out a year earlier and has some great games.I'm happy with my 360 but am not impressed.Wtf happened to the models looking like real humans? Hopefully gears of war and halo 3 will change my mind.After all the add-on crap it's about as expensive as ps3.

err tycobb a single layer dvd only has 4.5gb, a dual layer one has around 8.5gb. But yea the games files are decompressed/installed to the hdd, and minimal amounts of files are actually run from the disc at time of playing.

Aye thanks.Yeah I always said dvd-5/dvd-9 so it's no wonder I'm confused.Nevertheless the point remains intact. edit***btw that's also the reason most pc games aren't over 4.7gb so they can fit on the single layer ones and save the publisher/devs money.Only a few pc games like tomb raider legend have shipped in the 7gb range on the doubles.

your post above mine pretty sums the consoles up really (IMO), the only reason i would ever consider getting a 360 would be if Halo 3 is insanely awesome and even then getting a system for one game isnt really worth it. The Wii definitly has all the clasics though and i know quite a few people who have these as top priority (including me).

Halo 3 better be like a magic wand..... really.It's always been overated yet fun as hell.They better live up to the hype lol I'm freakin serious.I looked at xbox 1 as a console with no good exclusive titles other than halo.So far that's what I've seen from x360. Me too as stated, I grew up on nintendo so I love their exclusives.I will get one for sure.It's also kinda cool that you can download the old classics from the new virtual console feature.I want mario cart on wii asap hehehe..... always loved droppin that big azz banana..... I will end up with all of em lol.

Oh for god's sake! You said PC games haven't exceeded 7 GB because that's all a DVD will hold. I'm simply saying that if a PC game truly required more than 7 GB they would just put it on multiple DVD's. Remember when DVD drives weren't standard? Didn't PC games ship with as many as 6 CD-roms? They still do in some cases. Did PC games stop growing in size because the media format at the time (CD-ROM) was maxed out? No, it did not. They simply shipped with multiple discs and that's exactly what they will do now if they need to. DVDs are cheap as all hell. It won't drive the cost up that much. AND Zippy, I agree that bluray has potential for the future. That's not the issue. I'm just trying to convince this guy that the game in question, Resistance:Fall of man, by no means needs 22 GB to run. Look at the pics and watch the videos. It's not even that impressive. Looks like a souped up PS2 game. I realize that the article says it does and blah blah, but I don't believe everything I read and you guys shouldn't either.

Your missing the point DJfist because your only trying to prove something. Andrew did correct me but it doesn't change the point.My point was developers and publishers are cheap.Bluray is expensive and forces these devs to create games on 25gb discs which means devs will want to fill them because they are not going to spend the money to only put 5gb on the damn thing. Now that dvd's have come down in price the publishers can afford to put them on dvd's but back then 6 cd's were cheaper than one dvd(well sorta not really)and not everyone had a dvd drive.The whole point was the hdd reads what was installed from the disc which is 8.5gb max for dual layer which is why you don't see them higher and rarely over a single 4.7 gb disc for that matter. when hd-dvd/bluray media and drives get big on the pc then the games will get huge just like what happened when dvd drives took over cd's drives. ****edit everyone on here including you have made some mistakes from time to time.For that I'm sorry.Doesn't change anything though.

DJfist Ah! thank you for clearfing your "reason" sorry if I went a bit hard on you,much ike me you dout thats a good thing :P but try and blance your psots a bit more,I try dont always get it right,but if you dont care people to mistake you as a fanboy do want ya want ^^ tycobb I think hes tryign to prove he has a mouth *L* Mmmmm I dotn know once the next gen DVD format gets a standard sure I can see 10+ MB games but untill then not alot..I mean look at prey and Q4 1.5GB installed ,Q4 is more 2-3GB,I dont kow what oblivion is I would think with the contrustion kit it gets near 6GB.

damn its getting late, have to read each post like 4 times for it to make any sense, but yea it mostly all comes down to production costs. Why bother making a game that only just over 4.5gb and putting on a DVD9 when they can just compress it more or lower somethings quality to fit a DVD5 saving them money?

I personally am not impressed with any of these new generation systems. Let me tell you why. A new generation console system should be a big step up from the last system that was out. For example the ATARI then came the NINTENDO which was a big jump!! You went from stick figure characters to well rounded color graphics like Super Mario Bros. You could never play a Super Mario Bros game on the Atari to be anywhere near compared to the Nintendo Version. However, with this Xbox 360, you could play the exact same games on the Xbox or PS2. It just has a little sharper images..WOW!! not really a big jump there to make me wanna go out and spend all this money when I can play the same games on the PS2 practically for free with all these mods. Just my opinion.

thats why we've been refering to it as the xbox 1.5, its more of a halfway system thats more of an upgrade than a next gen console. The Wii even though its not really nextgen either, will have lots more goin for it than the 360.

@andrew You might be tired, but you got the point lol. With bluray they are forced to spend the money already which is why the discs will be filled with goodness(which bluray are $20-$25 per disc). @dsmooth I agree so far I'm not impressed with 360.I have chrome hounds and another game that looks worse then xbox 1 frankly.Although I also have cod2 and graw which show descent but not incredible visual boosts. I hope ps3 can do better....

I guess that's true. I'll just have to wait and see. I guess Im just waiting for real life human graphics with 3-D objects jumping out at me before I say WOW!!! This is next GENERATION!!

Andrew691 the has some potinal stil but MS is not inerested in "potinal" the 360 is dead to me,mainly becssue of the lack of foresight for ful BWC if it had full BWC then it would be alot more intresting to me..but as its stands now its a crippled Xbox upgrade that will msot likely be "reaplaced" in 2-4 years 0-o

I thought the BWC was actually getting updates through live for more games to work, anyone know where theres a list of supported BWC games?, would find it interesting to see which games they've bothered to support.

@andrew here ya go. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/backwardcompatibilitygameslist.htm

I have about 75 xbox games but only about 10 are supported:( I found this list helpful when I first got my 360 but now I realize my games will probably never be supported by the bwc.

geez theres actualy quite a few games there, to bad i havent heard of half of them. woah only 10 out of 75 that really bites, dunno why microsft couldnt have waited like another month to actually test the 360 before releasing it maybe then it wouldnt have had such a bad launch.

@andrew LOL tell me about it.I thought they were all backwards compatible when I purchased the system.The thing is my 75 were mostly good games but alot of the games on the list are crappy games that I nor anyone else bought! I only have 4 360 games so far(only 2 were any good) but I guess I could always get some free demos from live....:( I'm pressed for cash after $400 for the system, $100 for the wifi adapter,$50 for 1 year of xbox live, then about $240 for 4 games($60 a pop).

@Andrew True. It would have also left Microsoft some time to launch it without the overheating and hardware failure problems that still plauge the console today(I've seen it with my own eyes last month).

Damn right!!! PS3 will rule because of Final Fantasy XXX.....(that's final fantasy 30!!!! not porn....you sick perverts.)

The only reason the PS3 has as much popularity as it does and fan base is because the PS1 and PS2 whre the most popular of their generate and so have loads of people who dont have a clue about the other systems proclaiming PS3 is the best because they read it in some PlayStation "propaganda" magazine. (seriously they sound like its coming from Sony themselves its like "PS3 has this, this and this. More powerful than all the others, which obviously means its gonna have the best games ever!" its really sad that they can't accept competition. Also probably at the end of this generate i dare say PS3 might have sold the most, when its come down in price so much even i will buy one

yea thats about right, but all sytems have huge hype with the developers spraying crap in every direction, granted Sony has been known to this more than its competition but the end result is generally still good. Offtopic: looks like microsoft are giving away FREE domain names and webhosting http://www.officelive.com

PS3 the PS3 has the potinal to to bring console gameing to match PC gameing if not go beyond it at least in trems of "avarage" non rich Gameing rigs go. Wii has enough potinal in its innvoation to keep things intresting. 360 I cant realy find anythign to like about the systm,as it stands now its bearly a "next gen" system on the other hand there hasnt been alot of games to use every bit of its hardware so it can blossom from being 3 feet in the round but I just dont see it doing much,its bascily like the 32X only rich gamers and MS die hards will love it.

Hopefuly Sony focus on getting the bluray player working good, ive seen Dell and Sony Vaio laptops have had a huge battery recall. The batterys in these where made by sony so on top of finilizing the console there busy recalling batterys and trying to find the fault that caused the probs. http://www.engadget.com/2006/08/23/sony-gets-theirs-flaming-vaio-brings-the-firefighters/ After 16 versions of ps2 being released only the last v13-v16 have actually had stable lasers, that IMO is really stupid of Sony, 16 revisions and only just getting rid of the problem, that was found in luanch consoles.

Just to go back to the Blu-ray issue.. the games are going to work out at 5-7gb..the rest is going to be empty sectors and duff checksummed data to attempt to stop us backing up the disks. I don't even care which one wins.. It isn't important.. If you like the games buy one. Personally I'd rather buy a gun and shoot sad people who think that discussions about "which toy will sell more" are a relevant waste of server space on a tech forum...Me... I can't wait to get a master system..they are supposed to be the dogs!!

to tycobb: Wtf happened to the models looking like real humans? bungie said something about this when halo 2 lanched something known as the gulf of realism, probably still on bungie.net the more realist they made the models the more freakish they became,even the human models. can't really remember all of it but thats why halo 2 was more cartoony than halo 1

Oh....what the heck?.....Where are the flying cars? Aren't we in the 21st Century? I was told in the early 90's that we would have flying cars in real life by now...but I don't see any.........

The only reason why PS3 will sell so many is becuase they've been saying they will commingout with the PS3 for years. And people just wait and wait in anticipation. And then Xbox goes and put out the 360 right away instead of waiting for the PS3 to come out. Everyone knows that the original Xbox is technologically better than the PS2. Microsoft should've waited and tweaked with it a little after the PS3 comes out. Then it would be a good rivalry. And nintendo... I don't even know what the hell they're thinking with that F'ed up controller they came out with! People want to play video games, they wanna sit on the couch or lie on their beds and play until ungodly hours of the night. They don't want to get physical! I might as well go out side do something real, than to do all that crap inside.

If you search the history of video gaming you will see that just because a system is more powerful than the next doesnot make a good rival or competition. The library of games has always been the deciding factor so all the argueing over which will be the most powerful system really is obsolete.

vgaddict8 we do have flying cars they just cost 80grand a pop and get bad gas mileage ..plus theres the whole having a flying permit and such *L* lxhotboy *nods nods* UkSheep Becuse MS bite off more than it could chew haveing that many HIGH RES models on screen at once thats why you dont see D3,Q4 or PREY haveing more than a few models on screen at once,besuides thier saveign that for HALO 3 *L* surely the 360 can do it........ Mofomac Dont worry my little friend the Xbx 2 will e out in 2 or 3 years to wish you happy MSers off into S land....whever that is....while the rest of us like games over the system they are on.

People....hold on a second...Microsoft is not that bad. I like microsoft because the system gives better graphics for it's games. In the past, if the games come out on several platform...I have always loved it the most on the xbox. I can't wait to get my hands on a samsung xbox360 with the firewire put on it. Bill gates is good.

vgaddict8 thats becuse your a Graphics over gameplay kinda guy :P *noogies* I wish I was I am tired at being pissed at alot of games >< LOL

Well I'm buying a PS3 and not an xbox360 (maybe Wii)...score one for Sony? Plus i've enjoyed Playstation's, both gens, over the other consoles games so please don't say PS3's games won't be a selling point for PS3.

Rouzuki Ya if anythign that should be the main focus,cant be as bad as the 360 if anythign them deleying lunach means more titles at lunch. Much liek the 360 it has its own herdals to cross lets hope with the price of it they dont trip on every other starting hurdel like teh 360 has...

ZIppyDSM......the games have to look good for god's sake because we are in the 21st century. Would you want to play a xbox360 or ps3 game with nes sprites....... PLEASE!!!!!

vgaddict8 can you enjoy a bad game that looks great? if you can..shallow me thinks you are.... speakign of witch its time to crack out FF 1-2 remake for the PSX :3 weeeeee! *L*

Of course ZIppyDSM......Why do you think I loveDOA3 on the xbox so much? I just put that game in to stare at the ladies... LOL!!! This game makes me feel special because by just press 1 button...I can do cool moves and beat the crap out of anyone...LOL!!!! Just kidding ZIppyDSM.....No I can't play a good looking game that has poor gameplay. But can you play a crappy looking game that plays well for "LONG"!!!! I am not for either gameplay or graphics....but I want a game that plays well "AND" looks good. So the games have to look somewhat decent because we are in the 21st century.

vgaddict8 I do have trouble with some odd older 8bit titles :P

I am not sure about you but nes sprites give me a headache after about 5 minutes. So does First Person Shooters because the framerate moves so freakin fast!!!

But who wants BluRay? What percentage of people actually own an HD-TV? We want great games at an affordable price! Im not taking sides but £199 for an Xbox360 or £530 for the PS3 dosent take much thinking about. If i want to watch HD movies i also got the choice to buy the HD-DVD add on for the Xbox360 and before all you PS3 fanboys stick the boot in HD-DVD has only a slightly smaller storage capability than BluRay so what the hell! Glad to hear you opinions

well i think if you cant enjoy a game b.c it has older graphics but the game is great then you have to be shallow. I am not buying a game just b.c it looks great. What would it sound like if i told someone,"Oh i bought this game b.c the graphics are killer even though the game is boring." I have a psp and love playing zelda on nes emulator. Graphics are years outdated but the game is great. So is the zelda on Snes. Look at ms. pacman. If you walk into an arcade if you dont see anygame you will see ms. pacman and its not b.c of the graphics that is for sure. What about games that are so addictive like tetris, ms. pacman, luminees, bubble bobble, bust-a-move(aka puzzle bobble), super tecmo bowl(NES), etc.. I am 27 years old and i love to play those old games and graphics sure dont make them great today. I love good graphics as well though but that is just a plus to have as long as the gameplay can match up to the top notch graphics.

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/3/382881

"because of the high price tags that come with third-gen consoles, fewer will be sold this generation" Yeah, so The Yankee Group has no idea what they're talking about. The PS3/X360/Wii are 7th generation consoles. Well, if you're counting from individual companies, the PS3 is 3rd gen. The Xbox360 is 2nd gen, and the Wii is 5th gen. In terms of all consoles overall, though, all three are 7th gen. And of course none of them are going to sell as well. The difference between the upcoming gen consoles and the current one is much less than between previous consoles. The extra bang for your buck is getting smaller with each generation. The forecast that the PS3 will sell 30 million units by 2011 carries with it a huge assumption, namely that Sony will still be around and selling them in five years. The electronics division of Sony has posted losses in the millions of dollars in four out of the past five years. Things aren't going to improve in the next couple years, as the launch of a new console always brings with it a huge initial profit loss. The PS3 just might be the end of Sony as we know it.

ZIppyDSM...........Mowing lawns ain't going to get you anywhere. You need to get a job at McDonald's...LOL!!!... so you can buy the latest consoles suck as the xbox360 and ps3. You need to quit playing those old OlD games. I am a poor b*stard... and even I will collect every single pennie till I save up for a xbox360 and ps3. I HATE RICH BA*STARDs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

creaky got me, i'm such a tool