Xbox 360 blamed for kid's death

Next time someone I know dies in a car accident, I'm going to sue the car dealership.

Just make sure that it's the right dealership...


Didn't think the original xbox had overheating problems if thats the one they are suggesting. Also wonder if an investigator can justify that the fire was caused by the system. Whatever amount they are asking, won't replace their child.

i was talking on my iPhone while driving and it caused me to lose control and crash into a tree.....


but damn that sucks about their child..

Originally posted by hikaricor:

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Next time someone I know dies in a car accident, I'm going to sue the car dealership.

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Not quite an accurate analogy. A more accurate one would be suing a dealership if one of their cars explodes during normal usage. While I'm just as sick of lawsuits as the next guy, at least this one's a little more justified than mass-suing kids for sharing music, if the Xbox is really responsible that is.

Thats sad what happened but before suing, they should make sure that the xbox is really the cause of it.

Originally posted by WierdName:

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Thats sad what happened but before suing, they should make sure that the xbox is really the cause of it.

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Ditto.

It is sad when a tragic accident happens like this.

Originally posted by sk8flawzz:

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i was talking on my iPhone while driving and it caused me to lose control and crash into a tree.....


but damn that sucks about their child..

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Your an idiot. It's people like you that cause innocent people to be killed by idiots who can't use hands-free or just wait till you've stopped before using your phone.

Am I the only one who recalls the faulty power cords on the original XBox? They had a free replacement on them, I think it was considered a recall. I remember they said so many had the potential to start fires... basically exactly as this article makes it out. That the wiring could overheat and in some rare cases that could cause a fire. I'm sure a google search would bring it up.

I ended up getting one. Instead of the standard plug this one came with somewhat akward box at the end of it that had a fuse toggle switch on it. I remember it because everytime we lost power you'd have to dig behind the TV to flip that switch to activate the power cord again.

this is shit they are only doing it to get money back buts its stuipid if the fire started it isnt as though ur gunna have ur xbox in the door way is it! so id just run im not thick and just say mommy wats this
lmfao

Of course it's a tragedy that someone has died here.

That goes without saying and one cannot blame the family for looking around to see who was to blame.

It's just that I'm getting the feeling that what we're not hearing here is that the unit was left plugged in whilst the kid was asleep.

We all do it with out electrical kit.......but does anyone remember how we used to get advice to switch everything off and unplug our TVs etc etc from the wall outlets before we went to bed?

The only stuff you can't do that with I guess would be fridges and freezers.

But the inconvenience of resetting a clock or that wasteful stupidity that is the common 'standby' setting is possibly at least as responsible for this as anything anybody else might (or might not) have done.

Unless they can prove that the fire started with the unit's power chord/brick I'd say this is just as much the fault of our own general laziness.

We really ought to get back into the habit of unplugging stuff we're not using.
If we don't then, well, then this sh*t is guaranteed to happen to a minority......maybe you and your kids one day.

As they say up north in England.......'think on'.

yeh think on n all cos its common sense 2 unplug stuff even though i dont cos im safe cos i have power surge stuff etc...
oh yeh i unplug my wii because the transformer does my head in the noise on it

The answer to the case is what did the Fire dept say was the cause of the fire.If they ruled that the XBOX was the cause then Microsoft better get ready to pay out some dollars but if the Fire Dept say that didn't cause the fire then they have no case.

50,000 aint much for microsoft its like one day of selling stuff

This is a sad article. I unplug my 360 every time i am done with it and turn off the surge protector. I been through a house fire and hope never experience that again. So yeah I agree with the post of hughjar we should all consider unplugging the things we dont use. Home fires are a hard thing to recover from especially when you dont have the money to replace things. But as for this family if M$ is at fault for this then sue them until they can no longer afford to keep their name but if not then suing the wrong people or people in general will never bring back a lost one.

Originally posted by spydah:

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This is a sad article. I unplug my 360 every time i am done with it and turn off the surge protector. I been through a house fire and hope never experience that again. So yeah I agree with the post of hughjar we should all consider unplugging the things we dont use. Home fires are a hard thing to recover from especially when you dont have the money to replace things. But as for this family if M$ is at fault for this then sue them until they can no longer afford to keep their name but if not then suing the wrong people or people in general will never bring back a lost one.

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i feel sorry for u my friend do u have xbox live so i can chat

haha mik3h that never really happend, i was just saying that cause the people are saying an xbox 360 cause the fire in 04 when the x360 was released in 05...
i wrote that i was on my iPhone but how could i when it hasnt even been released??
p.s. i dont use my phone when driving anyway

The mix-up in names of console was probably a mistake by a lawyer who isn't a gamer....

I think people are missing the point. Who cares if the Xbox was left on while people were asleep? Bottom line is, in most territories its illegal to market a CE device that could possibly catch fire even if it were plugged in 24/7. So even though good parents remind people to plug things out at night or when they aren't being used, these products are not supposed to be a fire hazard if they are left plugged in.

One person already mentioned on this thread they have experienced a house fire. I have never, thank God, but I have seen one close up and from what I saw from outside, a house fire spreads extremely fast so I didn't like a certain poster implying this kid was thick... quite simply, people die at day or at night, adults and children, when house fires start because people don't realize just how flammable the average items in a home are. Did any of you ever see even those TV experiments where they leave a burning cigarette on a seat and see how long it takes for the entire room to go up?

I know that it takes far less than a minute for an entire average living room to be engulfed in flames. Considering this tragedy happened in December 04, and Microsoft issued a recall in February 05, it could very well be what happened and considering its now almost June 07, I'm sure the family had plenty of time to figure this out.

If the details in the suit they have filed are wrong then this case is in danger of collapsing before it gets started.

Also doesn't it tell you in the consoles manual not to leave the unit plugged in while its not in use? I can't be bothered to dig mine out and check but I suspect it does. Also it'd be extremely difficult to prove that the power cable hadn't been damaged in any way after sale.

I'm not saying the Xbox was or wasn't responsible, I just feel companies like Microsoft are often soft targets for these kinda law suits, even if Microsoft aren't responsible here theres a fair chance they will probably settle out of court just to avoid being tarred with the bad publicity that only the death of a child can bring.

yea yeaa sue microsoft , Bill got too much money, the more money they sue microsoft over the better

Again, whether its in the manual or not is irrelevant, you can't sell a gaming console and say "oh, and btw, don't leave it plugged in.... it might start a fire". I'm sure also that the case won't collapse because of the name mistake of the console, it would just have to be clarified, at worst, a whole new lawsuit.

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Also it'd be extremely difficult to prove that the power cable hadn't been damaged in any way after sale.

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Doesn't matter, Microsoft recalled the power cables for Xbox console citing fire concerns, showing that the company itself didn't have faith in their safety.

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I'm not saying the Xbox was or wasn't responsible, I just feel companies like Microsoft are often soft targets for these kinda law suits, even if Microsoft aren't responsible here theres a fair chance they will probably settle out of court just to avoid being tarred with the bad publicity that only the death of a child can bring.

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Oh absolutely, they are easy targets. For example, I got mad when I saw a woman suing over an epileptic seizure her child had. In this case, I would say that it says on the first page of the manual that comes with the book that prolonged gaming can cause seizures with those who suffer from photosensitive epilepsy. Now why wouldn't I take into consideration that the manual for the Xbox might tell you to keep it plugged out while not in use? Because the child who suffered the seizure got it while the Xbox was performing "as it should" and the manual clearly warned about this problem while the console is performing as it should be. However, a console or more specifically, its power lead/adapter, is not supposed to catch fire in any event during normal usage, or performing "as it should".

Of course, these things will always happen. I'm sure children have been killed because they slipped on spilled milk, chocked on jellies etc. No matter what is in the environment, it will kill somebody in some way, usually in a very bizarre accident.

you guys think this has anything to do with counterfeit product used in the XBOX manufacturing facilities. companies are cutting corners like never before , and there is always a Cost to Quality. no free lunch, anywhere.

aftermarket auto crash parts are a huge concern and cost the country alone 200billion dollars + a year.

if you are interested more in this please see the bottom post of this thread : http://www.bodyshopsolutions.com/WordPress/?p=52

America is getting ripped off, not just with crash parts, but with all kinds of counterfeit parts. insurance companies and distributors are all knowing, and let it go on. telling the public they are getting high quality but they know whats getting installed.

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Again, whether its in the manual or not is irrelevant, you can't sell a gaming console and say "oh, and btw, don't leave it plugged in.... it might start a fire". I'm sure also that the case won't collapse because of the name mistake of the console, it would just have to be clarified, at worst, a whole new lawsuit.[quote]
Also it'd be extremely difficult to prove that the power cable hadn't been damaged in any way after sale.

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Doesn't matter, Microsoft recalled the power cables for Xbox console citing fire concerns, showing that the company itself didn't have faith in their safety.

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I'm not saying the Xbox was or wasn't responsible, I just feel companies like Microsoft are often soft targets for these kinda law suits, even if Microsoft aren't responsible here theres a fair chance they will probably settle out of court just to avoid being tarred with the bad publicity that only the death of a child can bring.

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Oh absolutely, they are easy targets. For example, I got mad when I saw a woman suing over an epileptic seizure her child had. In this case, I would say that it says on the first page of the manual that comes with the book that prolonged gaming can cause seizures with those who suffer from photosensitive epilepsy. Now why wouldn't I take into consideration that the manual for the Xbox might tell you to keep it plugged out while not in use? Because the child who suffered the seizure got it while the Xbox was performing "as it should" and the manual clearly warned about this problem while the console is performing as it should be. However, a console or more specifically, its power lead/adapter, is not supposed to catch fire in any event during normal usage, or performing "as it should".

Of course, these things will always happen. I'm sure children have been killed because they slipped on spilled milk, chocked on jellies etc. No matter what is in the environment, it will kill somebody in some way, usually in a very bizarre accident.[/quote]




It wouldn't be the first time a trivial detail being wrong has lead to a case collapsing, also should a new law suit have to be filed then effectively the previous one has collapsed. Either way I think it'll be quite interesting to see how this one plays out.

As to the Microsoft recall this is indeed true, but as the family appear to have waited quite a while before filing suit, it could also be the case that they only filed suit against Microsoft because they presented a large and inviting target by issuing said recall, I'm not saying this is a counter argument for Microsoft its merely my own observation based on what little facts I have.

Some of the law suits have become frankly rediculous, they are only matched by the equally rediculous disclaimers and warnings manufacturers have to give with there products to avoid them, I remember the manual for my dual shock PS1 pad warning me against trying to attach the joypad to my head or elbow, and I've seen bed sheets with warnings about the risks of hurricane winds while hanging them out to dry.

totally agree, no matter how safe you make your surroundings someone will still manage to do themselves a mischief somehow, like I saying earlier its now a matter of companies pre-empting stupidity and issuing rediculous disclaimers to avoid falling foul of the law.

I think people getting to caught up on the law suit side of this. Because we all have seen many bogus lawsuit to collect money for any and every reason. M$ is known for slapping bogus lawsuits on people as well as other companies and regular broke or greedy people as well. But in this case M$ dont have the upper hand and if it was their stuff then this is and should be expected. I build PC for a local shop here where i live and we are liable if that unit is the reason for a home fire if we dont properly manufacture them right. We can not send somebody home with a unsecured unit and the same goes for any company that places a item on the market that has potential cause a fire. There are many ways for them to determine if this was a electrical issue with the game because of location and how it burnt when it started.

Originally posted by chubbyInc:

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Just make sure that it's the right dealership...


Didn't think the original xbox had overheating problems if thats the one they are suggesting. Also wonder if an investigator can justify that the fire was caused by the system. Whatever amount they are asking, won't replace their child.

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The console was not the issue it was the power cord. I was part of the recall I remember it well.

Originally posted by spydah:

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I think people getting to caught up on the law suit side of this. Because we all have seen many bogus lawsuit to collect money for any and every reason. M$ is known for slapping bogus lawsuits on people as well as other companies and regular broke or greedy people as well. But in this case M$ dont have the upper hand and if it was their stuff then this is and should be expected. I build PC for a local shop here where i live and we are liable if that unit is the reason for a home fire if we dont properly manufacture them right. We can not send somebody home with a unsecured unit and the same goes for any company that places a item on the market that has potential cause a fire. There are many ways for them to determine if this was a electrical issue with the game because of location and how it burnt when it started.

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As this is a thread essentially about a law suit its only to be expected that people are going to discuss the legal side of things.

Also its one thing to knowingly sell an item that is pottentially hazzardous, but I doubt Microsoft despite there arrogance would knowingly have begun selling Xbox's with suspect power cables, there is only so much you can test a product for before launch, you can't possibly simulate and test what will happen to a product once millions of people are putting it through potentially infinite scenarios, a lot of which are probably outwith what the unit was designed for. Once the problem came to light Microsoft issued a recall, short of Bill Gates going door to door handing out power cables and sincere appologies to affected users there isn't a lot more a company can do in these situations.

The tragic thing here is that a child has died, if a faulty Xbox power cable was to blame then I'm sure Microsoft will be punished, but I'm gonna reserve judgement till I have more facts or see the outcome.

Very sad and yes the family should seek compensation the car analogy is very disturbing apples and oranges. I am sure no amount of money can make up for there loss.

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Originally posted by spydah:

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I think people getting to caught up on the law suit side of this. Because we all have seen many bogus lawsuit to collect money for any and every reason. M$ is known for slapping bogus lawsuits on people as well as other companies and regular broke or greedy people as well. But in this case M$ dont have the upper hand and if it was their stuff then this is and should be expected. I build PC for a local shop here where i live and we are liable if that unit is the reason for a home fire if we dont properly manufacture them right. We can not send somebody home with a unsecured unit and the same goes for any company that places a item on the market that has potential cause a fire. There are many ways for them to determine if this was a electrical issue with the game because of location and how it burnt when it started.

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As this is a thread essentially about a law suit its only to be expected that people are going to discuss the legal side of things.

Also its one thing to knowingly sell an item that is pottentially hazzardous, but I doubt Microsoft despite there arrogance would knowingly have begun selling Xbox's with suspect power cables, there is only so much you can test a product for before launch, you can't possibly simulate and test what will happen to a product once millions of people are putting it through potentially infinite scenarios, a lot of which are probably outwith what the unit was designed for. Once the problem came to light Microsoft issued a recall, short of Bill Gates going door to door handing out power cables and sincere appologies to affected users there isn't a lot more a company can do in these situations.

The tragic thing here is that a child has died, if a faulty Xbox power cable was to blame then I'm sure Microsoft will be punished, but I'm gonna reserve judgement till I have more facts or see the outcome.

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Well yeah and no to M$ knowingly selling a hazardous product. They could have sold faulty units or power supplies trying to rush it out to make holiday sales. We may never really know unless your apart of the manufacturing team. Now looking at it from a different point of view we would hope they would not sell you something that would kill your or your family but when it comes to money its very possible so again its a yeah and no answer. Also a touchy answer because so many people spun their money on this and for that to be true could mean more money outta their pockets for the potential danger it coulda been for old and still current owners of that system. Its all based on speculation right now until hard facts say it is.

Sorry to finish off my last point I kinda got side tracked here at work and clicked post. Its been many companies that do recalls because they have cut corners for cost reasons to make more money on a product that was not worth as much with the cheaper parts used in the product sold. It happens all the time with plenty of products. Its all apart of their business plan to get more money from the end user which is the consumer. This issue does not stop or is limited to just M$ because of who their are even though this article targets them.

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[quote]

Originally posted by spydah:

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I think people getting to caught up on the law suit side of this. Because we all have seen many bogus lawsuit to collect money for any and every reason. M$ is known for slapping bogus lawsuits on people as well as other companies and regular broke or greedy people as well. But in this case M$ dont have the upper hand and if it was their stuff then this is and should be expected. I build PC for a local shop here where i live and we are liable if that unit is the reason for a home fire if we dont properly manufacture them right. We can not send somebody home with a unsecured unit and the same goes for any company that places a item on the market that has potential cause a fire. There are many ways for them to determine if this was a electrical issue with the game because of location and how it burnt when it started.

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As this is a thread essentially about a law suit its only to be expected that people are going to discuss the legal side of things.

Also its one thing to knowingly sell an item that is pottentially hazzardous, but I doubt Microsoft despite there arrogance would knowingly have begun selling Xbox's with suspect power cables, there is only so much you can test a product for before launch, you can't possibly simulate and test what will happen to a product once millions of people are putting it through potentially infinite scenarios, a lot of which are probably outwith what the unit was designed for. Once the problem came to light Microsoft issued a recall, short of Bill Gates going door to door handing out power cables and sincere appologies to affected users there isn't a lot more a company can do in these situations.

The tragic thing here is that a child has died, if a faulty Xbox power cable was to blame then I'm sure Microsoft will be punished, but I'm gonna reserve judgement till I have more facts or see the outcome.

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Well yeah and no to M$ knowingly selling a hazardous product. They could have sold faulty units or power supplies trying to rush it out to make holiday sales. We may never really know unless your apart of the manufacturing team. Now looking at it from a different point of view we would hope they would not sell you something that would kill your or your family but when it comes to money its very possible so again its a yeah and no answer. Also a touchy answer because so many people spun their money on this and for that to be true could mean more money outta their pockets for the potential danger it coulda been for old and still current owners of that system. Its all based on speculation right now until hard facts say it is.[/quote]




Fair point. But in this case the faulty item is a fairly standard power cord, which is actually of quite a high quality compared to some, we use pretty much the same power cords for testing units at work, and sure from time to time they short circuit and melt but only due to excessive wear and tear, under normal use these power cords rarely fail due to there extremely basic design, and the fact said design has been used in countless other electrical goods for decades.

Obviously none of us will ever know for sure the true nature of the recall issue, but from my own experience I'd wager on it being unforseen wear and tear leading to shorts possibly due to excessive or abnormal use, under these circumstances it doesn't matter what the power cord is or how expensive it was theres a risk of it becoming dangerous.

As I said before all a company can do in this situation is appologise and recall the faulty items, replacing them with new ones that within reason avoid the problem happening again in future. Unfortunately no matter how safe a company tries to make an electrical product there will always be an element of risk due to the very nature of electricity, unfortunately along with newer safer electrical items comes complacency and that + electricty always spells accident waiting to happen.

I think everyones response that I have read has over looked one major line in this article the article has a line that reads

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Wal-Mart and unnamed power-supply maker have been named in the lawsuit.

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one would assume that the bolded section suggests that a third party power supply has been used and could not have been recalled by Microsoft because Microsoft would have had no control over third party devices.

If your child was killed due to a problem with a console manufactured by a Multi-billion dollar corporation (either M$ or WalMart), wouldn't you be suing for more than $50,000?

I know it said that it was "over $50,000", but still, if it had been my child, it would have read "enough to bankrupt the company responsible".


But it does suck what happened to the kid no matter what, I can't imagine what I would do if it had been my daughter.

This is my first comment and I felt that it was an unfortunate necessity. There have been a number of posts on this forum debating the prevailence or otherwise or litigation cases against big companies that some see as soft targets. Be this as it may...

I am a full time fire-fighter in Australia, and while a very rewarding occupation, I have had the unfortunate task of having been involved in jobs like this. To rescue a child, or as is more often the case, to find a deceased one, is heartbreaking.

To find that its cause is an overheated power adapter is worse. Just for a bit of insight for you all. If a power adapter overheats, it in itself will not catch fire. Instead it will heat up the carpet to the point where it can catch fire (spontaneously combust for lamens). The high energy, and therefore temperatures that are produced cause the breakdown of substances, such as a wall, into highly flammable gas which then increase in temperature and eventually ignite, causing the whole room to catch fire. From start to finish this can take as little as a few minutes.

The hot gases will move to the ceiling, and travel around the house, heating up every surface it touches and producing more flammable gas, and smoke. If there is no smoke detector, the hot gases and smoke will silently kill anyone in the house while they sleep. Only the sound of the flames tend to wake people.

This is what we find. Quite often, the flames have not reached the bedrooms, yet the family is gone. So for those of you who claim that any child with common sense would run outside...in the nicest way...you have no idea what you are on about.

If the parents are suing, then investigators WILL have found that the source of the fire was located where the XBOX is alleged to have been located.

Claims of...yeah its sad what happened but... are neither respectful nor based on any educated opinion. Unless you have carried a dead child from a house fire, to then find that it should never have happened. Then you can bag the parents for "money grabbing" at a soft target.

I am sorry for the post, but my tolerance for fools is low tonight.

well i guess that doesn't leave much to say, people should know that kind of stuff, that's why fireman go to schools and talk about their jobs, but most people don't want to listen cause they feel like they know it all, i know my parents used to tell me not to sit the consoles on the carpet cause they overheat, until they saw me sit it on a glass table, so it really makes sense what you are saying, i don't see them having a case, especially when micro did the recall, but i'd like to see how that ends up, maebe i can sue them for making my hands numb from extended playing, just kidding, though no one should make jokes when a tragedy happens, so sorry x_x

hands numb for extended playin lmfao

Originally posted by hughjars:

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Of course it's a tragedy that someone has died here.

That goes without saying and one cannot blame the family for looking around to see who was to blame.

It's just that I'm getting the feeling that what we're not hearing here is that the unit was left plugged in whilst the kid was asleep.

We all do it with out electrical kit.......but does anyone remember how we used to get advice to switch everything off and unplug our TVs etc etc from the wall outlets before we went to bed?

The only stuff you can't do that with I guess would be fridges and freezers.

But the inconvenience of resetting a clock or that wasteful stupidity that is the common 'standby' setting is possibly at least as responsible for this as anything anybody else might (or might not) have done.

Unless they can prove that the fire started with the unit's power chord/brick I'd say this is just as much the fault of our own general laziness.

We really ought to get back into the habit of unplugging stuff we're not using.
If we don't then, well, then this sh*t is guaranteed to happen to a minority......maybe you and your kids one day.

As they say up north in England.......'think on'.

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You may be right in doing so in UK but in the US you are asking for trouble. I would hazard a guess that about 80% of the sockets are not switched. So when ever you plug in any instrument it goes live immediately. Think about all the emi, rfi, current surges & sparks generated. Most of the PCs and/or game consoles also do not have a switch that definitely removes power from the circuitry inside. Most have momentary switches (electrically/logically live) which switch on the main power circuit.

Again in tropical areas of high humidity standby mode is an absolute must to keep the circuit boards warm & prevent moisture condensation.

The problem arises when the OEM source their products without due diligence on equipment rating & suitability. Although by international standards the detachable appliance cables are supposed to be rated at 13 amps, I have seen any number of cables supplied with Chinese pc cabinets getting hot at a current draw of 4/5 amps.

IMHO verifying the quality of the stuff one buys should be one's own.

I don't know enough about this case to judge, but if my child died because of a faulty product I would be suing for millions. No amount of money could make me happy, but hurting the company who did this would be something.

If the suit is bogus, I would be ashamed to seek financial gain at over my child's death.

Either way, my condolences to the family!

I had to move around one of my 360's because it got so hot it would crash. I moved it away from other equipment and it runs fine. In my theater I have another A/C unit to keep the room cool - just too much equipment in a close space. That 360 has no problems.

We also keep our house very cold, so I can't imagine how hot a 360 could get in house without A/C.

Basically instrumentation power cables - the kind usd in PCs & other lab instruments are supposed to be rated at 13A. I have come across any number of cables included in Chinese made pc cabinets that get really hot even at a 2 Amp load. Talk about cost reduction & outsourcing manufacturing!

What is most surprising is that no one in the family ever noticed the cable getting hot prior to the disaster. Obviously the cable was a substandard / under capacity product if at all it was at fault.

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in tropical areas of high humidity standby mode is an absolute must to keep the circuit boards warm & prevent moisture condensation.

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- That's news to me so thank you for informing me.

But I guess tropical areas or areas of high humidity are a special case of their own then?

Perhaps it's an age and location thing but I recall public service announcements on out TV late at night (usually at the channel close-down) advising us not to forget to switch everything off and unplug everything.

It's a good habit we've gotten out of (and yes, I still say encouraged by that wasteful idiocy of 'standby' which has become practically standard fitment regardless of what market it is or is not appropriate for.......frankly I hope the EU is as good as it's word and bans it; IMO things ought to have a proper off button like they used to.)

I doubt you'd find an electrical goods manufacturer anywhere who'd be prepared to offer a totally 100% and 'in each and every case' guarantee that you can plug one of their products in and leave them in and on for years on end and never risk having an electrical fire accident.

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[quote] in tropical areas of high humidity standby mode is an absolute must to keep the circuit boards warm & prevent moisture condensation.

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- That's news to me so thank you for informing me.

But I guess tropical areas or areas of high humidity are a special case of their own then?

Perhaps it's an age and location thing but I recall public service announcements on out TV late at night (usually at the channel close-down) advising us not to forget to switch everything off and unplug everything.

It's a good habit we've gotten out of (and yes, I still say encouraged by that wasteful idiocy of 'standby' which has become practically standard fitment regardless of what market it is or is not appropriate for.......frankly I hope the EU is as good as it's word and bans it; IMO things ought to have a proper off button like they used to.)

I doubt you'd find an electrical goods manufacturer anywhere who'd be prepared to offer a totally 100% and 'in each and every case' guarantee that you can plug one of their products in and leave them in and on for years on end and never risk having an electrical fire accident.[/quote]Although they may not give it in writing they do take care about it. I have a 14 year old Phillips TV which has never been switched off at the mains except during some rare power outage. Secondly unlike north American homes (not buildings) almost all the construction is bricks, cement & concrete. Except in extreme case of extreme cost cutting, negligence or carelessness fire hazard is quite low.

In personal capacity I would still prefer to have an AT power supply with double pole switches as compared to the standby types ATX power supplies. But technology has brought this on. How else would you ACCESS data on your PC at home while on the road or make cheap phone calls through Skype? You must have some means of switching it on by a telephone ring or the like. Also how would you turn on your not so smart mocrowave oven unless it was smart and on timer to start cooking at the designated time to have your meal steaming hot and ready & waiting when you reached home. How would you record your favorite TV show or Monday night football unless your VCR was programmed and on Standby?

But then that is life for you.

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[quote] in tropical areas of high humidity standby mode is an absolute must to keep the circuit boards warm & prevent moisture condensation.

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- That's news to me so thank you for informing me.

But I guess tropical areas or areas of high humidity are a special case of their own then?

Perhaps it's an age and location thing but I recall public service announcements on out TV late at night (usually at the channel close-down) advising us not to forget to switch everything off and unplug everything.

It's a good habit we've gotten out of (and yes, I still say encouraged by that wasteful idiocy of 'standby' which has become practically standard fitment regardless of what market it is or is not appropriate for.......frankly I hope the EU is as good as it's word and bans it; IMO things ought to have a proper off button like they used to.)

I doubt you'd find an electrical goods manufacturer anywhere who'd be prepared to offer a totally 100% and 'in each and every case' guarantee that you can plug one of their products in and leave them in and on for years on end and never risk having an electrical fire accident.[/quote]Well, the reason for Computers having Standby buttons is because turning on and off a computer can cause damage to a motherboard. I don't know if you've looked into it but a motherboard usually rounds between 200 and 500$ pending on which one you have. For the kid whom was taken by fire. . .Stuff happens. No offense but you people do realize that death happens constantly? As I type right now someone is being killed, is getting raped, dieing, or all of the listed choices at this precise moment. I'm not trying to degrade or be rude, it's the truth. WHen you hear of someone dieing in the news because he/she was murdered or killed in a crash or some type of accident do you sit there and mourn over it? Do you think they should throw a suit against someone? I bought my XBox when it was first released, I never had a problem with it. I've used it on carpet, wood, grass, gravel (camping out in my backyard.) I have at least 30 other friends whom have this product. That kids time was up, he/she is off to a better place, can you not ask for more? Yeah it would be heart-breaking if I lost a loved one, but I'd move on. I wouldn't try to suit a company for all of there money. For instance I remember reading one of you all said you would sue enough to make the company go bankrupt? FYI that takes money. M$ has the money to get out of it, and you simply don't have the money to fight it enough to see victory on your side. Also If I were to lose a loved one due to a system failure, malfuction, sometime of freak accident using a toothbrush, ect. All I would ask for is for the company whom responsible pay for the funeral. I'm not tring to p*ss anybody off, I'm not trying to criticize, I'm just trying to get my point across. If anyone would like to learn more about my reason then feel free to msg me or w/e.

This is in reply to davrules' comment.

I wonder what world you are living in but for US$300/= I can build a whole 64 bit system. $500/= must be really exotic.

Secondly are you trying to tell us that the old time 386, 486 & early Pentiums that only supported AT power supply failed & the current ones don't? I still support 486 machines with 32 mb ram still running without a problem but have had big time names like Asus & Gigabyte fail in less than a year although they were always powered on & on standby & on online UPSes. In any case the ATX supply is essentially off when the PC is off. It only supplies 5v standby current for the momentary switch or an externally connected serial or USB device or for that matter the kb/mouse to switch it fully on if so configured. Very small area of the motherboard has any current actually flowing.

You have majority of problems only when switching CRT monitors by a single pole switch.

If you were to go by the manufacturers recommendations one should never switch off the pc at all. It should be thermally stabilized so there are no drastic fluctuations in temperature which are the biggest culprits in any electronic equipment failing.

Originally posted by pmshah:

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This is in reply to davrules' comment.

I wonder what world you are living in but for US$300/= I can build a whole 64 bit system. $500/= must be really exotic.

Secondly are you trying to tell us that the old time 386, 486 & early Pentiums that only supported AT power supply failed & the current ones don't? I still support 486 machines with 32 mb ram still running without a problem but have had big time names like Asus & Gigabyte fail in less than a year although they were always powered on & on standby & on online UPSes. In any case the ATX supply is essentially off when the PC is off. It only supplies 5v standby current for the momentary switch or an externally connected serial or USB device or for that matter the kb/mouse to switch it fully on if so configured. Very small area of the motherboard has any current actually flowing.

You have majority of problems only when switching CRT monitors by a single pole switch.

If you were to go by the manufacturers recommendations one should never switch off the pc at all. It should be thermally stabilized so there are no drastic fluctuations in temperature which are the biggest culprits in any electronic equipment failing.

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The reason your motherboard failed is probably because you blew a capacitor in it. Easy quick fix. Now the early computers that had no stand-by but an on-off switch, those were all right computers but had more problems then anything I know. They weren't very productive in a work environment because they had to warm up and warming up takes time, time takes money. The reason not to turn off a computer is so that you don't blow a capacitor, fuse, ect. It's the same thing as flipping a light bulb on and off 100 times or so. Another way motherboards get messed up is because of dirt, dust, hair, ect. Dirt can over-heat the system and cause a blown capacitor, Memory Stick.

If it was a faulty cable that a recall was issued on, is Microsoft still at fault for the family not complying with the recall?