Want Jericho to survive? Don't TiVo it

CBS have to realize that viewers of their shows not just the one mentioned in the article is views in different ways. Online Services will be the new wave that companies will have to go eventually.

I'm a big fan of Jericho, and I mainly watch it on the Internet Site. I can't believe they can't track the number of streams going out and count those hits against ANYTHING Nielson Rating can tabulate. This is crap that they can only survive if they rate on Nielsen ratings. Absolutely caveman like perspective. I can't believe in this day and age they would rely on something that is so antiquated and lame. Jericho is a great show, that is a moneymaker, and with a little faith, and a little technology savvy --CBS would see that.

Originally posted by mikecUSA:

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I'm a big fan of Jericho, and I mainly watch it on the Internet Site. I can't believe they can't track the number of streams going out and count those hits against ANYTHING Nielson Rating can tabulate. This is crap that they can only survive if they rate on Nielsen ratings. Absolutely caveman like perspective. I can't believe in this day and age they would rely on something that is so antiquated and lame. Jericho is a great show, that is a moneymaker, and with a little faith, and a little technology savvy --CBS would see that.

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i totally agree. i watched jericho every wednesday,and after it was cancelled sent letters and the whole bit. but i see their point, innertube only has a few commericals on it when you play it back and the execs for the firms that pay for the adds on tv really dont care what the numbers are when watching online when they arent advertising there. so the nielson numbers have got to go up if we want to keep our show!

GO WATCH JERICHO!

The problem is TV stations make the vast majority of their money off TV advertisements. The amount of money advertisers are willing to pay is based off how many people will see their ad. The number of people that are watching show (and will see their ad) is based off the Nelsens ratings. TV stations could probably care less how many viewers something has it all comes down to how much money they can make. If they don't make enough to pay for the show and bring in good profit the result will be no show.

is it competing with another show & the same time on a different channel? one has to get watched later, b4 my 2 tivos i had 2 VCR's & did the same thing! i don't always have time to watch t.v. when it is on! if that was the case i would get rid of my cable! What about people with families? maybe it is family time or the kids want to watch a show before they go to bed? common guys be realistic, sumin else happened & they just blame the internet @ tivo! (i do not watch the show my self)
They also have to realize as we become busier & busier with doing more things in a day sometimes things have to be pushed off!

TV runs on my schedule, not thiers. Its 2007. Welcome to the new age. Get used to it.

Originally posted by limelight:

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TV runs on my schedule, not thiers. Its 2007. Welcome to the new age. Get used to it.

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I totally agree. I work mostly nights and if it wasn't for my Tivo I wouldn't even be able to enjoy the show in the first place. TV Networks need to start finding ways to factor in shows Tivo-d and watched online on their websites to have a full understanding of the number of watchers for a particular show.

Heres another BS article from the those greedy folks who want more when they already getting the max from the consumer. If you used a VCR to record your favorite shows in the 80's and it didnt kill your favorite shows then why the hell is that a issue now. This really dont make any sense. All Tivo and any other DVR equipment is, is a amped up version of a VCR with out tapes or dvds. Its all the same stuff from then and now. I agree with a lot of the post on this thread. This stuff is so ridiculous it dont make any sense. People been recording shows for years and it has never cause a show of any kind whether its popular or not to fail.

I don't really understand the Neilson ratings, I guess. If you are recording the show, then that means your cable box has to be tuned to it, right? So how would it make a difference if you are recording it or watching it? Wouldn't the cable company still be able to know that it was SOMEHOW viewed at your residence?
I agree, though, that tv happens on the viewers schedules nowadays and not the programming schedulers.

Just in excuse to put on sombody else. ITs called the blame casting game... for instance as soon as that cable stream hits that tivo its considerd waching it you may not be but the tivo the vcr whatever you
us to record is... but even with that its not like they know you setting on your couch and watching jericho... or do they....mHhm..interesting.. :}

To say don't Tivo a show is about the STUPIDEST thing I have heard in a long while! What do they think this is...the 1950's!???

Just like the music industry is being forced to change, the TV and movie industry are going to have to follow suit as well. People get tired of being "tied"to a schedule when a TV show is on...that is why they have Tivo in the first place! They even PAY to use it! So that they can live their lives the way they want and still be able to watch their favorite TV show.

It is very dumb for the TV industry to say that you have to watch a show on your TV when it broadcasts... because there are so many other ways of getting TV shows now...itunes, Tivo...even the net! You would think that with all the talent that TV has in the background, surely SOMEONE could find a way to make Tivo and other scources work for them.

What about putting the show on the net and other scources for free (Like free TV stations do) and then having small ads in it? It seems like the TV industry has their head in the sand when it comes to innovation....a lesson that can be a very painful one....just ask the music industry. They didn't want to innovate, but rather sue their customers into submission....but it has not worked!

The TV industry is gonna find out that just sticking to the dinosaur method of Neilson ratings, is not going to get them anywhere. Wake UP TV industry! It is 2007....not 1957!

If they really want to pioneer an idea, why not just make Jericho an online show altogether? They're claiming that not enough people watch it on "TV". Big deal? Maybe they could find out that the web is a strong enough avenue for profits if they had a decent show that people could only watch online. Just my two cents.

Originally posted by SProdigy:

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If they really want to pioneer an idea, why not just make Jericho an online show altogether? They're claiming that not enough people watch it on "TV". Big deal? Maybe they could find out that the web is a strong enough avenue for profits if they had a decent show that people could only watch online. Just my two cents.

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SProdigy that is truly a good idea. It will be a great thing if they did do that and let it be viewed on your own scheduled time. Also if you look at trailers and other forms of video on some sites they currently use ads in front of the video before you can see it which is fine. Its just sad that all of the media outlets we have to enjoy being Movies, Music, and now Tv shows are all fighting to hold their ground in the past rather then moving forward with the better technology that is currently being offered. Its so much you can do the with the internet why not take advantage of it the right way.

Shouldn't they be suggesting that Neilson families actually watch the show? I mean what good does it do for Joe Schmo to watch it in real time instead of Tivo-ing it? No one is tracking what the vast majority of us watch, unless you've been selected to be a Neilson family. Has this process changed and I'm just completely ignorant of it?

Secondly, why don't they get with Tivo. Tivo keeps some exhaustive stats on what people are watching. Everything from Season Passes to the most replayed moments on TV.

Something like....

www.joost.com

Yeah, I would have no problem with small ads. Hell, even when I'm playing back on my DVR, it gives me a chance to grab a snack, hit the restroom, or I plain forget to fast-forward through them. It's not like I completely ignore advertising (except for seeing the same ad 4 times in a one hour show!)

Honestly, you can find alot of stuff online already. For example, I missed an episode of Lost a few months ago because we forgot to set our DVR. It wasn't on ABC's site or iTunes yet, but guess what? Someone already had a TVRip of it on the newsgroups and within 10 minutes, I was streaming it to my living room and watching the latest and greatest, about an hour or so after it aired.

These networks really need to get with the program, because us tech savvy folks are already finding ways to do our own thing, and the less time we waste doing it our way and the more ways its supplied to us from the networks, the more shows (read: advertising) we get to watch!

Unless you're a "Nielsen Family" with the Set Meters, Tivo all you want. It will not affect the Nielsen ratings one bit. If you're a selected "Nielsen Family", then you need to watch you favorite shows instead of recording them for later viewing.

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"The biggest problem with our show is that so many people were watching it on the Internet or Tivo (which doesn't count toward Nielsen ratings)

...if fans want the show to keep running, they need to watch it as it broadcasts.

"We want them to watch on Wednesday at 8 o'clock... and we need them to recruit new viewers who are going to watch the broadcast," Tassler said.

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No, it's time to find a new rating system.

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I can't believe they can't track the number of streams going out and count those hits against ANYTHING Nielson Rating can tabulate.

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It should be far easier, as well as with immediate results and with far greater detail about the viewer/consumer too boot!

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"The amount of money advertisers are willing to pay is based off how many people will see their ad. The number of people that are watching show (and will see their ad) is based off the Nelsens ratings."

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But what makes them think that people are more likely to watch the ads if the show isn't Tivo'd? There was a quote somewhere where a network guy talked about fast-forwarding through ads as a type of "theft", but do they think people are going to go to the bathroom or fix a sandwich during the show? There's just not a lot of common sense in this ad game.

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Just like the music industry is being forced to change, the TV and movie industry are going to have to follow suit as well. People get tired of being "tied"to a schedule when a TV show is on...that is why they have Tivo in the first place! They even PAY to use it! So that they can live their lives the way they want and still be able to watch their favorite TV show.

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Absolutely!

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If you're a selected "Nielsen Family", then you need to watch you favorite shows instead of recording them for later viewing.

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Surely the networks are savy enough to come up with an agreement with Dish/Directv to figure out what's been recorded - as well as how many times that recorded show has been watched! There's been a lot of times where I've saved a show for my wife or friend, so they can watch it. That's twice the amount of coverage. All gone to waste despite the fact that the technology for tracking recorded shows already exists (i.e. paying for a porn movie on DirecTV......or so I've heard. ;) )

OMG recording it and watching it later effects "ratings" exterminate!exterminate!exterminate!exterminate!

>>
morons.....

CBS took their most popular new show and canceled it to make a point about watching and ratings. They had every intention of bring it back.
Funny how one of the lead actors and The president had the same answer to why the ratings dropped. If you go on a two month break between episodes people will find other shows to watch. Then, when the show comes back you have to tivo or record one of the shows you have become addicted to. Simple answer....NO BREAKS BETWEEN SHOWS.

Yeah it seems a lot of shows are doing that. Making like 6 - 8 episodes then take a break and bring it back. WTF happen to running your season and when its over you work on the next season if your show is good. They come up with piss poor strategies and blame the public for what they chose to do.

Never thought about the possibility of Jericho being "dropped" for this purpose. Very nefarious. ;)

As to the new filming schedule, I agree. It's pretty stupid - especially considering the "serial" nature of many of these shows.

In the past no popular show had ever cut their show and brought it back in the middle of a season. Its all about finding new ways to make more money off of one season they can make seem like 2 seasons. They will sell you the first half for $30 then sell you the second half for $30 plus some bonus crap they probably will get more money for. Its all bad planning thinking its easier to get more then the season is worth and blame another sources for the lack of proper planning.

this is a very good thread. I agree with everyone here and would like to add that most of the responsibility lies witht he scheduling. Why is it that nothing ever seems to be on on Tues. nights? I'd heard that it was traditionally a cheap movie night and now most new DVD's come out on Tuesdays but I don't buy it. Why cram ever good show into the Sunday night; Monday night; Thursday night cycle? We have all changed our viewing habits so why not spread the shows out more? I work shifts so my PVR is the greatest invention I have ever bought but another reason I will tape something is that alot of the programming on at 8 or 9 pm is not suitable for my kids so I tape it and watch when they're asleep.

Same here. Plus, there are a couple of shows that my wife or I will watch without each other. It's very convenient to pause one of my own shows, and switch over to one we can watch together.

I wonder what the difference between using Tivo or recording with a VCR is?

Both access the the station through the tuner right? I don't have tivo, but I actually record many shows still with my vcr to watch later. The cable box is on the channel that I'm recording so I'm pretty sure that I would be giving back my digital "credit" for watching said show and said time.

Tivo must act like a router does for a computer. Acting as a go between, Nielson could see that the cable line was active but not have any clue where the signal is set from there...I'm guessing.

Pretty screwed up if you ask me lol

There are a ton of people that use dvr/tivo type of recording, thus effectively cloaking a large part of the viewing audience it seems.

Cable companies and these 3rd party manufacturers need to work together to ensure that shows are able to reflect their "actual" viewer numbers. I'm suspecting that many a show as of late was canceled because of the erroneous data :(

They need to fix this!

Regards,

MC

I definitely agree with those that say "Don't Tivo ? Gimme A Break". Been TIVOing for about 4-5 years (got a lifetime Series 2) and love it. I cannot believe the "Viewing" Data is not available. I know that TIVO .... IS .... collecting it because I "signed up" to approve and let them use my viewing patterns. So the Data IS there. Not sure why Neilson ratings can't see, get or buy it ? Besides, I don't believe in nearly any of the "critics" anyway. It's a Few Peoples opinions about what a few people think. A very, very, very small fractional percentage of the total world viewership !!

Bring on those peanuts !

I just can not believe they would cancel this show based on US ratings alone. They could sell the program all over the world. Surely this would easily pay for the show. There have been far worse shows being sold all over the planet.

I really liked the charaters in the show. It was also something new and original. Hope they get the final 7 out soon.

If they wanted to, they could easily track TiVo/DVR usage along with traditional Nielsen ratings. The truth is that they don't want to. The industry is aware of how flawed the rating system is. They are scared to death of changing the status quo in any way because they are convinced that ad revenue (overall and price-per-spot) would drop if more complete data were shown to ad buyers. The industry has long known that viewers almost universally try to avoid watching commercials, whether it's bathroom break time, snack time, hitting the MUTE button, flipping channels, or time-shifting (merely the latest method). The Nielsen Families rating system was designed in the 1940's. It serves its purpose: establishing ad rates (even if the end result is more arbitrary than not). Its accuracy is not important to the networks (even if it is to the advertisers), and, indeed, you cannot even establish its accuracy by design. The identities of the Nielsen Families are strictly confidential, and they are not allowed to speak about their TV viewing to anyone outside Nielsen. How accurate do you imagine it could be anyway? They use a sample that is less than 100th of one percent of TV viewing households in the U.S. -- and it isn't even a statistically random sample (people are initially chosen at random, but the final sample is limited to those families willing to fill out viewing diaries, thus biasing the raw numbers toward the viewing habits of only that subset of TV viewers willing to consistently fill out daily forms, not the general population). If a percentage of Nielsen households view a particular show, how can they be certain that the larger population's opinion will track close to their sample families?

I try not to watch any network shows live. Way too many commercials. If I really have to watch one live I always turn the channel when the commercials come on. Do they really think people sit through all that crap? Same ones over and over.

Don't they understand viewers are fed up with this money hungry attitude?

Originally posted by olddays1:

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I try not to watch any network shows live. Way too many commercials. If I really have to watch one live I always turn the channel when the commercials come on. Do they really think people sit through all that crap? Same ones over and over.

Don't they understand viewers are fed up with this money hungry attitude?

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You mean you don't like watching all the male enhancement commercials and the occasional VD (or any other disease) commercial trying to get you to buy a pill that has so many awful side effects that you wish you just had VD instead?

Originally posted by olddays1:

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Don't they understand viewers are fed up with this money hungry attitude?

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You do realize that the only reason mainstream television shows exist is to make money. What viewers are fed up with is a system that is still operating as if it were 1950. Anyone I know that has enough money to buy the stuff in the ads uses a DVR. With todays hectic work/life schedules, very few people have time to be in front of there sets at a specific time just to watch a single show. They need to get a ratings system that works like their viewers do.

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You mean you don't like watching all the male enhancement commercials and the occasional VD (or any other disease) commercial trying to get you to buy a pill that has so many awful side effects that you wish you just had VD instead?

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Happy to say I need neither. LOL!

Has anybody every been part of a "Nielsen Family" here? Or even know someone personally that has a Nielsen box? I mean come on. How they get selected is beyond me. And like others have been saying, if you don't have a Nielsen box why would it matter anyways if you Tivo/DVR the show anyways. What you watch doesn't matter in the ratings. Only the 9 people in small town SC make up the demographics of the whole US according to the Nielsen Ratings if a show like Jericho gets cancelled or the 4400 just disappears but Kyle XY comes back. Don't get me wrong I like Kyle XY, but it is not in the upper echelon of shows like 24, 4400, Jericho and LOST.

They can't toss the blame on us like we have any say so.

Also DVRs have multiple tuners and Tivo probably does too. So if your tuner is recording the show why would it not show as you are watching a show? you can't turn to a 3rd channel to view at the same time. Sounds like nonsense to me.

I'm just glad Jericho is back!!!!!

Enjoy it when it comes back. The writers have a mandate to tie up the show in seven episodes.

I gave up on Jericho last season, because they kept preempting it with other stuff. By the time they brought it back again and I realized it was back on, I'd lost so much time I could no longer figure out what was going on. I think the last episode I watched was right after they killed the woman that ran the general store. Right after that the show disappeared for too long a time, for me to give a hoot when it finally returned! :(

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you "TiVo" something, aren't you tuned intoo that channel while it's recording?? I don't get it.

Originally posted by toddvj:

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you "TiVo" something, aren't you tuned intoo that channel while it's recording?? I don't get it.

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it doesn't count to "live advertising" being seen "live" thus fails to get noted when nelson ranks it.

think of it like how the RIAA pays artists for their work.

Ok, so if I'm watching it live and also recording at the same time, how would anyone know?

Why put out a blanket statement like this? Shouldn't this be sent in a letter or some other format to just the Neilson families?

Do they honestly think people have nothing better to do (such as work) at 8 on Wednesday?

If I wasn't working at this time, I wouldn't have the money to buy a TV and NONE of the commercials would have been watched at all.