just info .....

CinemaNow's download-to-DVD uses checksum errors as DRM
Posted by Seán Byrne on 05 August 2006 - 02:19 - Source: TechWeb

When CinemaNow announced its DVD writing capability for movie downloads, it looked like great news for for those interested in legally downloading movies as it would mean giving them the capability to play their downloaded movies in a standard DVD player. Unfortunately unlike music download services that allow DRM-free CD writing, CinemaNow uses copy protection measures deveoped by FluxDVD to deliberately insert errors in the Digital Sum Value (DSV) checksum values to make it difficult to rip or copy. This copy protection measure has a side effect in that some DVD players may not be able to tolerate these checksum errors, which could result in a stuttering image or the disc refusing to play altogether.

go here to read the article
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/13773

anydvd statement
Next update will fix the FluxDVD problems, and it will work with CloneDVD as well.
__________________
James

I guess easycake got it right after all.

These bum CinemaNow discs defy any rudimentary attemp to copy its contents anywhere else. Data Corruption. Yummy !!! (not) A "protected" DVD *after all*! Hollywood must be salivating into it's coffers by now. Just imagine - fluxdvd has (at least temporarily) done what CSS could not! But this thing'll be cracked!!!!

That's really too bad that not even Nero can make sense of this damned fluxDVD stuff. Too bad ratDVD's author is not still on our side.

Maybe duckNrun's got the answer. Mount the disc as a virtual drive using Daemon Tools. Or else, like Ireland says, we can just let AnyDVD crack it for us in their next software update.

@gogochar

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Now I will try to do it the old fashioned way.

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Well, the really really OLD way would actually be to open up a DOS window (eeeek! MSDOS - oh! horror of horrors!) bypassing windows altogether, (or just open up a DOS window in Win 2K or 98SE (eeeek! Win98!) - (too bad for you XP users, 'cause you can't do that).

In fact, that's how I make quick extra copies of my completed dvd discs for friends.

* Create a folder: (say, "XTRACOPY")
md d:\XTRACOPY

* Put the Cinema Now disc into your burner. (say, the F: drive), then go there...
cd F:

* Change to the video_ts folder
cd video_ts

* Copy the whole kit & kaboodle over to your xtracopy folder
copy *.* d:\xtracopy

Wait until DOS transfers all the files over, then just use Nero (or whatever burning proggie you like) to burn the xtracopy folder. *Too Easy!*

(Now *that* would be the really OLD way of doing it, gogochar). <gg> By god, it works for me. :-)

@duckNrun

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Also to paraphrase "It's A Wonderful Life": everytime a DRM scheme fails an angel gets it wings!

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[img] http://images.amazon.com/images/P/6305064490.01._AA240_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg " border=0>

GOOD ANALOGY! Let's hope that George Bailey (gogochar) won't get discouraged and jump into the river over this. (Just kidding, gogochar) :-)

I'll be watching AnyDVD closely on this one. (DVDFabDecrypter too).

hello klingon..

this is a good read

Movie transfers to DVDs to become easier

A film industry group is set to remove some of the procedural hurdles that prevented the legal recording of movies onto blank DVDs in a further sign that Hollywood studios are preparing to expand what consumers can do with downloadable movies.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

go here to read the article
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TECH/ptech/08/10/dvd.burning.ap/index.html

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hello klingon..

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Hi Ireland!

Wow. What an awful thing that article describes. "CSS-Compatible Blank DVDs". Who would ever buy such nonsense?

What they are talking about is trading in fluxDVD data corruption, for homemade dvds you can make, that will be automatically encrypted with the standard dvd-player-compatible CSS.

(really really dumb) It's dumb because if we have a "regular" CSS-encrypted disc, we can just RIP it in the "regular" way!

Remember that old movie... "Dumb And Dumber"? (or 'Dumb-er-er' or whatever it was called). Well, these noo-&-improoved schemes they keep coming up with strike me as "Stoopid & Stoopider". <ggg>

I've tried it with every decyrpter that I could find and haven't been succesful yet. And they have all ripped at the lowest possible speed I could get them. Hasn't worked yet, but now I will rip by dragging the folder over. I will update you on the status. BTW, I tried the DVD on different DVD players and none of them showed signs of weakness yet. They're all compatible, but some of the DVD players took a little longer than usual (according to their owners) to load the DVD. I've noticed that the DVDs start out at title 51!!!

duckNrun
thats why I sugjested diffrent speeds,I have noticed that diffrently levels of damaged DVD/CD/data? will read better the slower you go.
I have rented a few DVDs that are quite unreadable at 16X yet funtin fine at 4X.


gogochar
in between cpying attemtp breaks did you try and assecse the qauilty of the DVD itself,IE skiping palying stoping and such?after all if it works 70% of the time its mroe or less going in the right direction.

Oh, the quality is DVD quality. I just don't get how they put the freakin' stinkin' "checksum errors" on the disc!

gogochar
to keep it from spawing copies duh :P

Anyway so the DVDs work fine no skipping and such?
then they have made thier point it works for most people most of the time ,the same can be said for used DVDs *L*
and is in a format they have some crontrol over,is it the best setup no,it will evolve,grow and change in time.

zippy: yep you did and I thought it was a good idea!

A_Klingon: for us XP types couldn't we just grap a dos disk (boot or otherwise) and be done with it? Does it work on 'regular' movie type dvd's as well? If so, when you burn them to a DVD-9 do are they still protected? (Hence, exerting fair use to back up legally purchased media while following the DMCA and not 'bypassing' or removing the CP)

"CSS-Compatible Blank DVDs"

bascily means that whatever media you use to burn it to its a one time shot you can paly with the downlaoded data IE back it up bu the DVD it creates is only good for 1 copy,however if you can BACKUP/COPY the downlaoded data and spawn a mass of un copyable DVDs....have you not just misssed the point of forceing the DVD to be uncopyable?


0_o
altho if soethign as simple as this makes hollywood happy let them have it,altho they'll just DRM the downloads and then of corse you'll have to find the cracks for the DRM..it enver ends *L*

@duckNrun ...

Yes, you certainly could use a simple DOS boot-floppy disc, in fact, that's not a bad idea at all. Especially for WinXP users, because Willy Gates has removed all traces of DOS in XP.

But no .... you can't just copy over, file-for-file, a store-bought retail CSS encrypted disc. You have to rip the disc in the usual fashion first.

Naturally, all of your disc backups have already been deCSS'd by the ripper of your choice. SO, if you put that backed-up disc into your burner and go to the video_ts folder, *every single file* (.vob, .bup ...) is emminently copiable to a hard-disc folder of your choice. (They are, after all, just data files.)

Sure, you can copy over a full dual-layer 8-gig DVD-9 collection of vobs this way. Complete with menus and 'extras' and subtitles and 57 different languages - the whole 9 yards. Whatever you told your ripper to do earlier, DOS will copy everything over for you.

(I use DOS every single day - wouldn't be without it). You don't have to worry about *which* files (in the video_ts folder) to copy - just copy over the Whole Set of files. Use the "wildcard" feature (asterics '*')...

In XP, you could make a folder on your desktop where you can see it. (maybe, say "EatMyShorts")

In DOS, that would simply be "md EatMyShorts" (without the quotation marks)

Put an already backed-up DVD disc into your burner. Go to it's video_ts folder. ("cd video_ts"). Punch up a directory listing if you like. ("dir"). You'll see the whole DVD in file-form in front of you. Simply copy over ALL the files it has into your <EatMyShorts> folder.

("copy F:\video_ts\*.* c:\desktop\eatmyshorts") (or wherever XP puts your desktop) If you're using a boot-floppy, you can just put the <EatMyShorts> folder *anywhere* on your HDD.

If you're already IN the disc's video_ts folder, just type "copy *.* c:\desktop\eatmyshorts"

(This is all very basic stuff). Alternatively, you could just get Nero to clone the disc for you. "Disc-To-Disc" copy.

But no, dunNrun, DOS won't recognize a CSS-encrypted disc.

But for me, this process is so simple and foolproof, I've even written a simple batch file (.bat) to automate the process.

It probably wouldn't work for those bum CinemaNow discs though. [shrug]

Well, I give up. It won't copy over to the hard drive. There's only one other option I haven't tried yet. ISOBuster!

gogochar, you're a really good sport for telling us your findings with this CinemaNow thingee.

*Someone's* gonna rot-the-sox off this corrupt fluxDVD stuff, have no fear. Maybe DVDFab or AnyDVD, or even "GrandMum Margaret's Handy-Dandy Home-Baked Flux-Buster Backer-Upper" program, coming soon to a shareware section near you.

Did you have to pay for the file you downloaded, or was it a free sample? (I don't have XP or WMP 10 so I can't download anything, besides I only have a slow old dial-up system). <modem>

What is the downloaded file's size? What is it's file-extension? (.mp2?; .mpeg2?; .exe?) Was it just a single file? (My FAT32 file system won't allow a single filesize over 4 GB.)

I assume you can play the originally-downloaded file(s) back any time you want with Win Med Player 10? Does movie playback in WMP 10 require a downloaded "license" like those stupid 15-days-only .wma music files from Microsoft?

Some of those CinemaNow flics are only rentals - good for only 24 hours, right?

(Just curious, thanks.)

-- Mike --

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GrandMum Margaret's Handy-Dandy Home-Baked Flux-Buster Backer-Upper

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That one had me rolling! The file I downloaded (http://www.cinemanow.com/burn_demo1.aspx?grpid=550&device=7&cpt=2) was free. And it required that you download the CinemaNow burner. It was of course the fluxDVD proggy in disguise. They can disguise the average customer, but I know what they really use. Just follow the instructions it gives and try it out and you’ll see what I was talking about. Yes you can play it on Windows Media Player, I haven’t tried the actual file on any other media player though. The downloaded file size is a little less than 100 MB (won’t take so long if you’re using Firefox and broadband). The file name is “cinemanow_sample_dvd.fluxdvd” without quotes. It doesn’t have any time limits or license required. According to CinemaNow, you own it (even though you can only do what they tell you to do with it…until AnyDVD fixes that). Unless you’re under the little selection that says “Burn to DVD”, everything is for rent, I just don’t know for how long.

The only solution I could find is to burn the file to a data disc (using Nero) then copy the disc (because you have only copied the file, not sent it through fluxDVD). Then, bring it over to your friend's computers and have them install CinemaNow’s burner, then process the file to DVD. It takes about an hour to process the files to where it can be read to DVD, so it wastes everyone’s time and money. It’s just cheaper to go out to Best Buy and buy the DVD. It has the case, the sleeve and you don’t have to worry about the DVD-R. It saves money, can be backed up and is cheaper. Let’s just pray to God that they don’t introduce this bull “Checksum Error” crap into Blu-ray or HD DVDs!!!

@ Klingon: ok thanks, I got ya. I was pretty sure that it was the Rum making me misunderstand ya cause I was pretty sure you couldn't just use DOS to bypass the CP, as well as the fact retail DVDs not having the sector to write the CSS to causing trouble if you could do it.

Thanks to gogchar as well for all the experimenting!

A_Klingon
Not to mention XP dosent have a simple low level scandisc,copy other non XP or safe mode thigns you need if you want to save files and shit befor formating and fixing XP when it goes nuts.
God I miss dos.. you an fix 9x with dos but XP is a whole other monster....

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God I miss dos.. you an fix 9x with dos but XP is a whole other monster....

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Zippy, I use both Win 2K, and Win 98SE alternatively. The DOS system included with WIN 2K is not very user-friendly (the text-screen looks weird), but if you know anyone who has Win98 installed......

You can make a boot-disc floppy very easily. You wouldn't need to go into XP for anything.

Everything you need fits on a single 1.44 disc. It also includes optical disc support (your reader/writer).

(Or else you could just PM me ....) ;-)

I have not used this movie dowload service but reading this thread about the problems has me wondering.

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fluxDVD puts a crap storm of dummy files so a ripping them (even if I do succeed and I will) will take forever!

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what is stopping anyone from using a program like VobBlanker to clean it up first? Please let me know.

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I'll try that right now.
ADDED: Well, when I used the "SCAN TITLE VOBUs" option, it scanned for a bit and then popped a message that read "Input error: Reached end of VOB too early" then "VOB scan aborted". Wierd. Anyway the initial MB was 12765 and the MB that it would be after the files were done processing would be 7726. I then hit "PROCESS" and not 2 seconds later it crashed! fluxDVD is the best out there... so far.

Until GrandMother Margaret (a feisty little lady by all accounts who doesn't give up easily) has had a chance to examine this problem in more detail, she suggests the following:

Put the crummy CinemaNow file into a 2-quart saucepan. Add 4 cups of water and bring to a rapid boil on "high" for at least 5 minutes.

Remove from heat. Usually, all the corrupted dummy-file DRM stuff will float to the surface as a kind of 'scum', which can be ladled-off with a large spoon.

With a bowl underneath, pour whatever's left through a fine-mesh strainer, and discard the rest. (You might want to open up the kitchen window up to let all the stink out).

Pour the remaining bowl's contents into a greased casserole disk, sprinkle a bit of cinnamon on top to help keep the smell down, and bake at 350 degrees F. for at least a half hour. (Miss Margaret says the extra cooking is necessary because this fluxDVD thing is only a "half-baked idea to begin with".)

Remove from oven, and allow to cool before dumping the movie onto a wire cake-rack.

"If you can't swallow what's left", remarked Miss Margaret, "let me see what I can up with."

When pressed for further details, Miss Margaret could not be reached, as she is busy attending a bake-sale at her local Pennecostal church's charity drive.

All kidding aside ......

Should AnyDVD, or any other of the good software programmers out there, have good fortune in *completely* de-DRM-ing this latest CinemaNow fiasco, what do you want to bet that the CN site won't "mysteriously" withdraw their "offerings" ?

It's US against THEM. Fair Use vs. Big Bizzness. The whole Internet Community vs. the once-respected author of ratDVD. (Who do you think has more collective programming power?)

And I wouldn't mess with Miss Margaret if I were you. I'm scared to death of her! <ggg> :-)

-- a_K --

LOL.

Are there any of websites other than CimemaNow that you can download movies that will be in mpeg or AVI format? and what about sum movies that are in theaters is there a site you can download these legally with sum kind of subsciption maybe?

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There are a couple. RealMovies with Starz is what I use to have, iTunes is about have one, MovieLink. The only one that has the "Burn to DVD" function is CinemaNow. Everyone else has the "Rent" option.

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A_Klingon
I manage without it,after a few years without a bootdisk I jsut reinstall/update XP if its still a messed up backup fiels and format and install,its the long way around but XP is evil like that.

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No problem, Zippy. (But I'll tell you a secret - there is NO real substitute for a clean boot floppy disc.) DOS is a much under-rated system. VERY convenient. Simple but effective. It does what it says it will do. And ....... DOS has NO DRM !!!

I do ALL my housecleaning (HDD) chores with it. Since I was "born and raised at the DOS Command Line Prompt", it's all second nature to me. You can do stuff with it that you can't do with any of the MS operating systems.

Let me know if you ever want a boot floppy.

-- a_K --

DOS is very good soemtiems I think they would have been off buliding it up then have windose as a simi buggy GUI.
I tried over the eyars to use it but it hates NTSF 0_o

Howare the Scan disk and Defrag stuff? I use Powerdefrag to leave XP and have it reboot in a low low mode in order to proply defrag it.

Right now the only mystry I have yet to solve is good data recorvy programs been tryign to get a cheap nortaon host but not much luck with that at least goback put the XPs HD "backup" on a diffrent HD,but in order for a soild restore you need to backup out of XP.

these is where raid confuses me as I see it not beign much better ..I think *L*

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