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MPAA: DRM is here to save consumers from piracy

Written by James Delahunty (Google+) @ 11 Feb 2006 9:05 User comments (53)

MPAA: DRM is here to save consumers from piracy The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) boss Dan Glickman has a pretty radical view on why Digital Rights Management (DRM) and copy protection exist. One would guess that besides using copy protection and DRM to effectively control how people can enjoy their movies and other content, it is there to stop pirates from mass producing pirate copies and selling them for a small fraction of the retail price. Of course, this does work sometimes, but still movies do end up on P2P networks quite fast, and on the street even faster; so what use is DRM?
Well according to Dan Glickman, DRM is here to protect vulnerable consumers from themselves. "Content owners use DRMs because it provides casual, honest users with guidelines for using and consuming content based on the usage rights that were acquired. Without the use of DRMs, honest consumers would have no guidelines and might eventually come to totally disregard copyright and therefore become a pirate, resulting in great harm to content creators," he said.

I would guess that I'm not the only consumer, and customer of the movie industry, that is somewhat offended by this comment. Why? Because I feel that Mr. Glickman feels it's OK to "look down on consumers". I don't like to be treated like a "possible pirate" when I purchase content. I don't like the movie industry feeling it can police how I use content that I purchase, or that Mr. Glickman feels like he is somehow above consumers, and can comment on us like we are a big bunch of children that he needs to educate.

It it this "holier than thou" attitude that angers consumers. How can the movie industry tell me DRM exists to stop me from doing something "wrong" when all it stops me from doing is transferring video to my iPod, or to my PSP, or creating a backup copy in case my original becomes badly scratched? Is it not my "right" to do these things? All DRM seems to be doing is forcing people to buy their content again on different formats, or buying the same DVD again to replace the damage your kids accidentally did to their Disney DVDs.

Content Scrambling System (CSS), the weak copy protection on DVDs, had a bigger purpose than anti-piracy; it controlled how consumers can enjoy their DVDs. Linux users were left out in the dark for example, until DeCSS made fair use possible. Now Advanced Access Content System (AACS) will do the same thing again for high definition movies. Take these anti-consumer copy protections and merge them with the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) or the European Union Copyright Directive (EUCD) and their equivalents elsewhere; the movie industry has complete control.

Now, not only is it "wrong" to transfer video from a DVD to your iPod, it is "illegal" to circumvent the copy protection to make it possible in the first place. In most countries it is even illegal to distribute the tools necessary to make a backup. How could this have been allowed to happen? The answer is quite simple; money. DRM keeps people buying the same content on different formats (DVD, UMD, from iTunes etc.) so it brings in more money. That's why it is illegal to circumvent copy protection.

Piracy, of course is illegal in many states, and this six letter word allows the movie industry to force such laws as the DMCA. "Losses", "Economical Damage" & "Threatening the Industry's future" are three things we keep hearing about. Why does the movie industry not care about consumer's rights? Did any major studio ever stop to think "Hmm, I wonder how CSS will affect the rights of our customers? The people our whole Industry depends on." Of course not.

There is much more that could be said from a consumer's point of view in this article, such as the Movie Industry's use of User Operation Prohibitions (UOPs) on DVDs to force us to watch those annoying "Piracy, It's a Crime" advertisements, and the use of Region Coding to stop us from importing cheaper (or uncensored in some cases) DVDs, but to continue this article would only be continuing to tell all of you what you already know.

Source:
Arstechnica

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53 user comments

111.2.2006 10:10

Lets make fair use iliage and throw 10 year olds in jail for shareing mix tapes digitaly >> I love the whole DeCSS thing to,this guy makes a codec to run DVDs on linux and its able to be eaily converted over to windose and the MPAA mifia tries and sues him becuse they talking a loss becuse they can no longer sell thier DVD codecs to DVD palyer software makers >< As for makeing the tools to break Copy protection illiage that is BS nothing like haveing corperations tell you you cant make a legit backup of soemthign you owen.My god soon it will be illage to tape TV and radio shows ><. Region Coding is like trying to blur out nipples on soemones shirt on a R moive.the stupidity must end.....

211.2.2006 10:39

I agree with both the article's comments and the comment posted above. If the movie, music and software industrys are going under because of pirating then why do they make billions more than the people that make these laws? If I made a movie i would want some type on copy protection on it, but not one that FORCES my consumers to continue to buy the same thing over and over again. These industries act like people want the CRAPY ASS movies music and software, no wonder people download it for free. Im sure they dont want to pay for crap just a we dont. The Real Solution : MAKE BETTER PRODUCTS & PEOPLE WILL BUY IT!

311.2.2006 11:11

Well, I have to say I also to agree to what you guys said and what the article is about. I think we all know that the whole of idea of consumer rights is getting pretty skewed, and that the RIAA, MPAA, or whoever is out to make a buck will do whatever it takes to screw the consumer (You) out of more money. The question is what can we (as consumers) do about it? Seriously, I mean I could write a letter to my congressman, maybe sign a petition online, or boycott something...but is there anything we can really do to make a difference in the legislation? If every one in gov't is in bed with the RIAA or MPAA or even lobbyist groups what can we really do? I'm not saying this to be a defeatist, quite the opposite really.I bet we could all make a difference. We just have to figure out how. Any good ideas?

411.2.2006 11:28

Let me get this straight. Somehow DRM is able to protect against theft on the high seas? I don't see how. -- What is Piracy? Piracy: Robbery committed at sea. Pirate: One who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation.

511.2.2006 12:19

Well, the instant I saw the title of this article I knew it would be total BS from the entertainment industry again. I don't buy movies or even go to the movies anymore. Why? I don't want to support the criminals who sue children and treat their customers like worse criminals. You don't sell dull knives just because a customer could 'possibly' use them to commit murder. Not only has DRM proven completely ineffective against copyright infringement, but it's made the "legitimate" material that the entertainment industry sells inferior to what people can "pirate" off the internet. If there's a DVD in stores that I can't rip or play on my computer, I'd rather just download it off the internet for free instead of buying it - better product, better price. The entertainment industry needs to be reminded that they are there to make our lives more enjoyable - not to come up with new hassles to deal with.

611.2.2006 13:03

trigga71 well they wont ever make better,but make them more cost efficve is all we can hope for.its like the whole thing with OSs coperations can get OEMs for 100-150 put pll who buy home eds hve to shell out twice that and small bizzness get arse raped shelling out 1G$ plus for the honer of runing new windose on more than 1 PC.....back to Vid and music I see it over priced 10-20$ and rarely want to buy it I was thinking of gettign the remastered Star wars 3-4 on DVD and I cant find a non screwed over version of it (ending of 3 they repelased the old actor wif anikin from Ep3 (puke))

711.2.2006 14:18

Nothing much will come of protests to stop DRM and actions of that ilk. Why? Because the bulk of purchasers don't care. MOst folks just buy, listen or watch and that is it. As for the fbi warnings and similar most folks just tune those out. All they are interested in is the tune or video, nothing else. As for individual rights? Well, they are something that happens on another planet. Nothing new about this and it applies to most things. It isn't apathy, it isn't disinterest, it is just human.

811.2.2006 14:29

Tashammer pretty much the coperations will lead the lamps around for slaghter as they will...I cant wait till they ahve to put up with china when china owens the US they will run out of money quick paying off them ><

911.2.2006 14:42

ZIppyDSM you make good sense. Folks more often than not are unable to see beyond their nose ends. Australia that had spent years breeding up fine fleece merino sheep then went and sold live rams and ewes to China - does Australia think that China will not have bigger and better flocks than eventually? It is that sort of short term/quick return/maximum eploitative attitude that makes things worse for everyone in the long run. Encouraging China to become the rapacious consumer like the West is very bad news. Harangues about how China deserves to be like the west are usually given by folks who stand to profit or by their supporters. Who said that the Western style of life is something worth aspiring to? Look up the word "wasichu" that defines much of western attitudes. During the time of Ghengis Khan, which we all will remember, the Han Chinese had the best way of defeating an enemy - they absorbed them - this will happen again as China does on a much larger scale what Japan did - buy up all the companies and producers.

1011.2.2006 17:08

I remember what DVD was not only better because of its video quality but because it didnt have previews of movies in the beginning. The last movie i went to see was Saw 2 (not bad buy the way) but was it worth the 20 bucks to see it in the movies, no i could have stayed home downloaded it (not as good quality) and been playing my ps2 ( with free games that i download because there over priced) or cable (that the only reason i have is because Hargray cant split there cable and internet. I would be differant if when you bought a PS2 you got 2 controllers and a memory card and a DEMO disk (like the psx) but you dont they want you to fork over the cash and give you a cheap ass product that will break 1 week out of warranty. you can get just about anything off the internet, like older movies and remaster it at home with software you downloaded and burn it down to dvd, insted they wannt sell the same Wizard of Oz for 10 bucks more than the original and its the same thing. The way i look at it is somebody had to pay for it so i could download it off the internet. So they got there money, witch was too much to begin with

1111.2.2006 21:00

Tashammer hows the aus-a-doph-a-lus (sorry if I cant spell it right) down there?? :P *L* I try to see thigns with soem form of balance its funny to see every other nataion getting better 3X faster than thos of us in the USA and the goverment is blind to not wanting to protect the bleeding we are doing soon we wil be a 3rd world nation at this rate..... trigga71 Dont you mean DVDs that force you to watch previews? :P

1212.2.2006 0:05

I agree with everything said up there, the MPAA and even RIAA are ass holes. I just want to buy once and use it on all MY devices.

1312.2.2006 0:12

ZIppyDSM What on earth is an aus-a-doph-a-lus? the closest i can come to is acidophulus and that is in yoghurt. Describe the beastie for me. May i ask if you have dyslexia or ESL ? (That is a straight question, nothing rude intended).

1412.2.2006 0:28

Thank you Mr. Glickman. I'm certain that you already have a Sainthood waiting for you in reward for your totally unselfish DRM contols. (Is Saint Dan already taken?) Maybe we consumers can somehow reciprocate by not purchasing any of your products that contain your rip-off DRM sanctions. In this way, perhaps, we can curtail the flow of some of that nasty revenue that you and your associates are too lazy to get off of your asses and legitimately earn. By doing this, we consumers would actually be doing you the favor of helping you to see yourselves for the greedy, arrogant bullies that you have become. Please forgive me for the new adjective that I unfortunately omitted as this article truly earns you the right to be known as disingenuous.

1512.2.2006 6:20

who says that I need to be saved.I need to be saved from these cd and dvd that get sratched so easy and be able to back them up if my movies block up.

1612.2.2006 8:53

I like foreign films and i hate it when i can't watch it here in the US and i'm forced to burn it on a dvd so i can play it on my dvd player. Many import movies are change and/or converted so it can suit the movie industry. Majority of the time when they add their own changes, the movie totally suck, ie Ong Bak. They change everything when the movie is already good.

1712.2.2006 11:30

Tashammer Didnt Austraila vote some time ago (1-2 years) for a name to kangaroo meat? and they came up with ausadophalus or soemthing. Sorry if I am confused I rmeember the damnest thigns *L* I got a few learnign disabilies acutly 0-o I realy should use spell checkers more I give me online friends headaches when I type LOL My flow of thoughts and words is off,add alil dislexia,I forget what ELS is its been a decade or so sicne I been tested and they keep changeing whats what 0-o Gramer,writeing,math, blah I am lucky I think sometimes my IQ is high just my mind shifts from 50 to 200 on its owen 0-o khmernize thats why if you buy a DVD palyer get a regoin free one :3 freshguy *nodsnodsnodsnods*

1812.2.2006 12:00

ZIppyDSM , i didn't know that was what some prat had come up with for a name for exported roo meat. We don't eat roo here is Tasmania, we eat the smaller cousins, wallaby, but they call it roo meat anyway, go figure. Tassy only has 1 type of kangaroo a little 7' feller called a Forester and it is protected. Yer it's a sod, i live with 1 or 2 problems myself. ESL = English as a Second Language. I think the ailments and the disabilities are Natures way of making things equal - i have a high iq if you believe the tests but, by crikey, you wouldn't think so sometimes. Hmm, i think i have veered off topic a little <grin>. The words that may help describe Dan Glickman and others of his ilk are: rationalizing, immoral, opportunistic, rapacious. He clearly demonstrates that, in lawyers, the distance between an asshole and intellect is very short. What gives them added strength is that they appeal to what all of us have and that is the need to protect our property. In them, though, the need is mainlined to greed.

1912.2.2006 14:02
advent
Inactive

For a supposedly intelligent? man, Mr Glickman talks a load of rubbish. All DRM will do is alienate people towards the MPAA and the RIAA. The trouble is that most governments are bought and paid for by big business and allow this to happen.

2012.2.2006 14:11

go tassies "love this place" nice to see some tassies about

2113.2.2006 1:42

I bet you Glickman's ego gauge went up 10 points after spittin' that crap.

2213.2.2006 3:51

its all about control and all i see is them trying to control the way we spend our money. if i purchase a video ipod and a dvd who the hell has the right to tell me i cant put that movie on it. they were both bought legally. also if my dvd gets scratched as they often do i MUST buy a new one?? they are placing the blame everywhere except where it belongs. stop charging 10.00 for a movie thats crap and only 1hr 15 minutes long and previews that last 20 minutes, then the average person would go see one more often.

2313.2.2006 3:55

this may be an anthema here but there are circumstances where DRM makes sense. I just doubt it would be impliment reasonably. Right now If I rent a title from Netflix, of the approximately $2.00, the post office gets $0.80, the envelope maker probably guys probably gets $0.05, and maybe the studio gets $0.40 to $0.50. I the studios would allow me to download a dvd quality,(average 5 mb), it would take less than overnight on my average broadband (3mps). this is 1/4 to 1/10 the time of Netflix if I picked it on my que. If I could pay the studio $0.60 and a broadband surcharge of say $0.15, for viewing rights in my home for 48 hours, the studios/rights holder would be making more than through netflix, I would be paying less, and I would get my title in much less time and effort than dvd rental by mail or driving to the blockbuster. IN short if the fee were $0.75 I would not mind. Given the basic numbers we all know from Netflix (return to studios of about $0.50 per rental) I cant see why a pay per view over 48hours of everything every made cant be done. the technology is not that difficult it could be accomplished with set top boxes with $10 of hard drive (20gb or four movies), a nic, and pretty cheap chiset with solid encryption. I just don;t think they studios are ready to charge less than a dollar even though the secret is out and they charge much less than that when you get it fform netflix (which if course is easy as pie to copy)

2413.2.2006 6:08
oappi
Inactive

I really understand artist and movie makers urge to have something to stop ppl from copying dvd and cd to/from internet. Its just that there is no way it can be done with out pissing off those who want to make backups for their movies and cds. I used to make image copies of my game cd to hd because i didint have to waste my time looking for cd/dvd and when they are stored correctly they dont get scratched. Thx to new law in here i cant do that anymore. Thats f*ck up.Mostly because of what they do to screw average consumer i have stopped buying cd and buy only few movies a year. And dont expect ppl to buy Blu-ray movies if quality is same as dvds i.e in linux.

2513.2.2006 7:33

Casual, honest users engage in what the movie industry calls "piracy" to provide guidlines for the industry as to what the public's rights and reasonable expectations are when using movive industry products. Without these guidelines the industy runs the risk of becoming complacent with their offerings and treating their customers badly.

2613.2.2006 7:36

Note to Mr. Glickmam. IMHO a razor wire fence is not a "guidline"...

2713.2.2006 10:07

Something needs to be done, but I don't think quiet boycott is the solution. If we don't buy the products, the sales drop and the movie and record industry blame internet piracy for it and make even worse DRMs. Even worse, they have statistics to support their view. I think that if we go to store, take some CDs and DVDs we would like to buy, go to pay for them, but then say "I'm sorry, I can't buy these, these won't play on my Linux computer because of the DRM." and leave them to the desk, we will arouse the attention of the store managers as well. This way the store managers see that they lose revenue because of the DRM and might ask the producers to deliver products without DRM so people would buy them. At the desk we could also ask them "When are you going to have products I can use?" to make it more effective. It's crazy that in Finland you can get about the same sentence from copyright infringement than, for example, raping someone. One might as well just go to the store and steal the products. Perhaps higher risk of getting caught, but the sanctions are slighter.

2813.2.2006 13:46

I will not even bore anyone here with the long speech about DRM and this and that. Here's some truth for everyone here. It's us against them. The entertainment industry made this war a very long time ago by chraging us ridiculous prices for crappy movies they put out each year. So here is what I say. I will stick it to them the way they've stuck it to me with their high priced dvd's. Noawdays I'm more at peace with myself I don't buy movies PERIOD AND I still get to see my favorite movies and keep my money as well. The entertainment industry will never make a sucker out of me again. I hope everyone here wises up. Your money can go to something productive until they make real quality movies. Thank You

2913.2.2006 15:52

why is it each time I get a email about new posts to this thread the mighty mouse song runs in my head and I see him knocking out custmers and stealign thier money to give to the big corperations 0-o

3013.2.2006 18:43
chesty
Inactive

Why even cry about it ? listen life goes on. I am a regular customer of slysoft dvd and dvdfab and i have a high speed internet connection and i have boxes and boxes of dvd roms of these programs and dvdfab decrypter DVD Decrypter DVD Shrink and i live in the united states and i do what i want to do in spite of the MPAA and i used to download free decrypters from your website for years because i had the foresight to realize that the copyright law would change in finland and i did my homework. I have a huge collection of css encoded music dvds and i working on a collection of old christopher lee and peter cushing movies and other other horror flicks which i am slowly making backup copies of. The MPAA is going to to what it wants to do and I DO WHAT I WHATEVER I WANT TO DO. If you think all of this so unfair if you don't have a visa card to buy slysoft or dvdfab drivers on the internet then YOU HAVE TO PAY TO PLAY AND GET OVER IT.

3113.2.2006 21:34

We're going to do whatever we want regardless of those ego/money motivated idiots.



3214.2.2006 2:20
bugguy
Inactive

This is a bit convoluted, so bear with and think about it. I wonder, does Mr. Glickman open his own mail? If he doesn't, and we all know that the lazy bugger doesn't, then he needs to call the FBI. Why?? Well because the poor soul that gets paid to open his mail is breaking US federal law. It is a crime to open mail that isn't addressed to you. Think about it folks!! You know what else? I remember, back in the 80's, there was a big stink that the recording industry was going to lose bajillions of dollars due to the advent of dubbing cassette tapes. The sad fact is that Bon Jovi, Michael (I Love Small Boys) Jackson, Motley Crue, etc.; still managed to make millions of dollars. Next thought, why hasn't the RIAA and their cohorts gone after China or other countries in international court for the rampant piracy that exists there? Next thought, why don't the RIAA and company just get together and have one big circle jerk? That way they could get their jollies and leave us the heck alone. God, I hate people that think that they have to protect me from myself.

3315.2.2006 0:07

They're a bunch of idiots, they think they're heroes or something.



3417.2.2006 9:30

So DRM is meant to guide the common user how to use his property? Well if i want to use it as a frisbee, then is that in this DRM guide? Cause thats about its worth to me if i have to deal with DRM, thats why i download. I just thought of sumthin, you know how britain has no drinking age and yet the have not as much drunk drivers as other countries, namely the US. Well i have a suggestion, why dont they cut the rules crap, guide lines, and let us do what the fuck we want to do with it, with out some prick saying its illegal, I will buy what i consider very good music, even if its overly priced, i will buy movies that i consider to be buying material, but i wont buy shit music or shit movies because im not wasting my bloody money. The truth is that if they do go after some one, it should be only after the people who actually go out and sell the pirated material because they make a profit. So my final saying, FUCK RIAA and all those other fuckers. I dont want rules. If there were no rules for this crap then their would be barely any market for piraters. Just my 2 Cents

3517.2.2006 14:42
jameslf
Inactive

"DRM is here to save consumers from piracy" Well, that freakin proves it. The MPAA & RIAA think all consumers are fucking idiots. I hope some of you are reading this you asshole pricks. Fuck you! I pay a ripoff price for the cd so you can get your share, you pigs. When I buy blank discs, you get another share, you pigs. I pay for them. They're mine. I'll make as many freaking copies as I want. If you make CDs/DVDs that I can't copy, then I won't buy them. Listen, I think I said this before. Fuck You! You wanna sue me? Go for it, assholes. You'll get Fuck All. So here's a little note to all ripoff bastards, whatever country you're from. Take a memo; FUCK YOU

3617.2.2006 17:57

That's rather interesting. It's no longer Consumers & Pirates, it's now just simply Pirates and Potential Pirates. for some reason I kind of like that, To bad they don't put that in the begining of all their movies "We know you are a potential pirate" instead of "would you steal a DVD?" it would be more effective I think. After all what better way to get people to buy your rootkit ridden, copy protected, fuck linux mac & fair use stuff then by just calling EVERYONE a pirate?

3718.2.2006 0:42

Yeah the ones that are selling the material and making their profits are the real pirates. I mean, we download and don't sell, and they call US pirates? I despise their tactics. It's like this: "Oh thank you MPAA, if it weren't for your print on this peice of paper, I would be making copies of my movies, JUST for me, in case they get scratched. If it weren't for DRM, I probably would have converted my DVD movie to PSP's format, but instead I bought another copy, JUST for PSP. Thank you MPAA for DRM, I now feel safe from myself. God only knows what I would have done if it weren't for you guys!"



3819.2.2006 18:49
lprophet
Inactive

Sigh. It is all about Greed. Not theirs. . Yours. If there was no copy protection , how many of you would send a nickel , to Sony , or Time-Warner , etc. , for each copy you made? Not many. And , the number would fall , as it became easier , for Grandma , and Grandpa , to make copies. I'm a Grandpa , so I know human nature. If you don't pay the artists , who will ? Is there an abuse in the system ? Yes. Airhead "artists" , who stand in front of a camera , and make millions for being a Mina bird , are a problem. So are pirates. Got a foolproof answer ? The world is waiting for it , and , sad to say , you won't make a cent from it. Because it's foolproof. Until then , we who would make backups , have to depend on those who are willing to do the hard work for us. And yell about our "rights" . Do you write your Congresscritter ? They WANT to hear from you. I am a registered voter , and I voted for you , and I donated to your campaign , and I ....

3921.2.2006 0:10
procode
Inactive

At last !! I can only thank Mr Dan Glickman from the bottom of my heart for this my 'Safe Guard' .. No longer near I worry over 'What to do ??' .. If I can 'copy it', then it's OK to share copies of it with all my friends and family, and should I be taken to task over it, I will have the support of his cast iron defence .. "If I can copy it, is is acceptable to share it", thank you Dan M8, If you were a woman, I'd love you .. ;) Procode ..

4021.2.2006 21:11

lprophet they only listen to thos that donate 30 grand,mabye if a bunch of pll got togather and lobbied their owen public severnt but most of the time it falls on deaf ears sicne the inudsty has more power and sway than the voters do 0-o it sounds off but its so sad its ture,its like fair use is becomeing a crime now adays ran across soemthing of the like when I had my phone line put in,I wanted to have a cable wire the trailer thats next to the house they didnt want to do it even tho I offered to pay 50$ for them hooking it up on the same day they did the phone,the reason they didnt want to do it is half and half 1 to bring in more moeny by me havieng to pay for cable thats the same as the house,the other is its to stop Motel/hotel/renters from stealing cable,I am non of thos of thos and I will wire the cable her myself its only 10 feet,but the point is there balance and enforcement they dont want to enforce/make new laws agist selling copys they want to make it where you can not backup what or return what you have bought.

4123.2.2006 3:33
lprophet
Inactive

The idea that politicians only listen to lobbyists , is just an excuse , for you to do nothing , but complain. Every Congress-critter knows that a single letter , written by a constituent, represents the views of about 5,000 other people , in their district , or state. A letter , and a $20.00 donation from a VOTER , means much to these people. They will listen. As to problems with phone lines , I can't see where that is germane , to this discussion.

4224.2.2006 4:03

I actualy have sent out emails and letters but the letters go unreplyed and the emails all have the same generic sentament in them its almost pointless to hope they will hear anything.

4319.8.2006 8:53

In order to protect myself from piracy, I do not buy, rent, or go to the movies. I have therefore romoved any chance that I will be DRMed into piracy. Dan Glickman should be proud that his hard work to protect the public has worked on at least one consumer. He should get a raise. He is worth every penny he earns,,,,

4419.8.2006 9:09

lprophet For an old man, you are rather nieve. The idea that politicians listen to the general public has gone out the window years ago. They don't even listen to the voters when 80 percent of the people vote for something. Politicians will woo you with lies just before election time, wastfully use tax money during his/her term to buy your vote. Politicians are for their party, money, themselves, the party, in that order.

4519.8.2006 11:55

dufas No its changed nowadays its Rep/Votes Party Money Personal basis and soemtiems Money and personal bais will trump everything 0_o

4619.8.2006 12:26

Same results.....The general puplic gets the shaft....

4719.8.2006 12:36

dufas I wonder whitch is worse politions with mob mentaly ,or mindless shepple....

4819.8.2006 13:31

ZIppyDSM Politicians opperating with mob mentality screws the puplic on purpose.....the mindless screws the public because of stupidity... results are still the same, only the first one is more organized screwing....

4919.8.2006 13:36

dufas damn I guess its true a screw is a screw 0_o

5019.8.2006 13:50

ZIppyDSM Yep,....and screw by any other name will feel the same...

5116.3.2010 2:21

hi there anyone,im looking to download adxutil to rip my ps2 game,does anyone know where i can download it from?help

5216.3.2010 10:50

Originally posted by Kalombo2:
hi there anyone,im looking to download adxutil to rip my ps2 game,does anyone know where i can download it from?help
What on earth has that got to do with this 4year old News topic ?



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5316.3.2010 13:32

Originally posted by creaky:
Originally posted by Kalombo2:
hi there anyone,im looking to download adxutil to rip my ps2 game,does anyone know where i can download it from?help
What on earth has that got to do with this 4year old News topic ?
i guess somebody needs glasses or learn how to read.

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