AfterDawn: Tech news

Blu-ray 'Managed Copy' to start in December, lacking hardware support

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 08 Nov 2009 0:20 User comments (36)

Blu-ray 'Managed Copy' to start in December, lacking hardware support Due to its byline stipulations, beginning in December all Blu-ray titles will come with the option to make one "managed copy" (a legal backup).
However, for all current Blu-ray player owners as well as most near term future owners, your player will not have the capability to make the copies, making the feature useless.

AACS-LA chairman Michael Ayers says the Managed Copy is mandatory given the final AACS license and over 600 companies have signed on. Each new movie from December 4th on will come with a link on the disc which will send the player to an authentication server. If it passes, the disc can make a full 1080p copy of the disc. For now though, there are no players capable of making the copies so the links are useless.

Manufacturers are not required to even make such devices but Sony and other AACS-LA members say they expect the first PC drives with the capability to hit by the Q3 2010. The AACS-LA says they won't even have authentication servers up and running until March 31st.

There are, of course, catches to the managed copy. Studios can choose to offer the managed copy instead of digital copies like most current discs have. The studios can also choose to charge for the backups, likely a nominal fee under $10 USD.

VideoBusiness adds that "Managed copies can be burned to recordable Blu-ray or DVD discs, as a download to a Windows Media DRM-compatible portable player or hard drive, on a memory stick, SD card or as a bound copy, such as a digital copy file on the disc."

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36 user comments

18.11.2009 2:03

What a complete waste of effort. Why go for a managed copy when most people will either rip the movie themselves or download a copy someone has already done. Useless. Not to mention only an idiot would pay a fee to make a copy of something they have already purchased. These movie companies are such bloodsuckers. I wouldn't pay 10 cents to make a backup copy of something I already purchased.

28.11.2009 2:48

Originally posted by Ryoohki:
... I wouldn't pay 10 cents to make a backup copy of something I already purchased.
Just like I wouldn't pay 10 pence for a different version (unrated/DC) of a film I already own, but their are people out there that do (not 10 pence but you know what I mean :))

38.11.2009 2:56

Originally posted by Ryoohki:
What a complete waste of effort. Why go for a managed copy when most people will either rip the movie themselves or download a copy someone has already done. Useless. Not to mention only an idiot would pay a fee to make a copy of something they have already purchased. These movie companies are such bloodsuckers. I wouldn't pay 10 cents to make a backup copy of something I already purchased.
Be honest with yourself, how many people are really going to buy a $200 USD Blu-ray writer, $4 BD media and then learn how to rip and burn their own discs when they can make a copy with one-click for less than $10. Not everyone is as savvy as our AfterDawn community :)

48.11.2009 4:44

I am determined to pay no more than 12 Euro or $18-20 for a new release Blu-Ray disc. Until the day comes that such a thing is available, I am perfectly happy with watching slightly less "sharp" alternatives on my Blu-Ray Disc Player and my HDTV.

I don't BUY any regular DVDs either but rely on the internet and on Rental for my material. I have therefore not yet stopped giggling at the suggestion I would have to pay an ADDITIONAL $10 for a back-up copy...

58.11.2009 6:08

im not prepared to pay for anything anymore until these companies sort their act out im rebelling and downloading or ripping only!

68.11.2009 10:29

I'll buy a blu-ray burner for my pc and a blu-ray recorder for my stack-system when the prices come down for sure, not going to pay an additional sum, just so I can copy a disc I've already bought though.

I have 16 blu-ray movies atm, only bought a player a few weeks ago, I love to own a movie collection and I'll NEVER rely on crappy down-streaming, storing on an unreliable HDD or SkyHD (I hate SkyHD, I'll NEVER pay 48 a month to Ropert Murdoc for his sub-standard HD service), for the moment I download 720p movies in mkv format until the blu-ray movies become cheaper.

78.11.2009 10:33

I download mkv files and copy them to DVD discs and play them back on my Blu-ray player, cheapest option atm, until prices come down, nearly close to Blu-ray quality, it'll do for now.

88.11.2009 19:24

AnyHD does this quite quickly so no need.

99.11.2009 0:41

Originally posted by windsong:
AnyHD does this quite quickly so no need.
Yes, but AnyDVD HD will make all the backups you need...
This plan says just 1 backup, and no more if it gets damaged.

This is just one of the deathrattles of DRM.

109.11.2009 4:13

Originally posted by Mombasa69:
I download mkv files and copy them to DVD discs and play them back on my Blu-ray player, cheapest option atm, until prices come down, nearly close to Blu-ray quality, it'll do for now.
With my equipment, I still notice a substantial difference in quality between blu-rays and MKV's:
- PQ: it looks better than an upscalled DVD but there's still loss of detail, color and depth. Depending on compression, I also see some macroblocking, artifacting and halos in certain scenes, whereas the Blu-ray doesn't have that
- AQ: Blu-rays with lossless audio tracks sound a lot better than mkv's with MP3 audio tracks. details aren't as clear and LFE doesn't have as much punch to it. Directional effects are also better with lossless tracks

A good example is the Matrix trilogy. I donwnloaded a 720p MKV version of the movies and then bought the Blu-ray set when it came out. I compared them side by side and the difference was quite noticeable.

My equipment:
Panasonic Viera 37" 1080p LCD TV, Playstation 3, Onkyo 706 + B&W Home theater 5.1 speakers & subwoofer.

But I agree on the prices. It would be nice if new movies are released under 20 USD a piece from day one. Amazon has some good Blu-ray deals at the moment, so it might be worth to check them out if you want to build your collection (some new movies are on preorder for 16.99)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2009 @ 4:18

119.11.2009 22:28

Originally posted by kyo28:
With my equipment, I still notice a substantial difference in quality between blu-rays and MKV's
Well that all depends on the .mkv really, doesn't it?

I mean some people are doing 2gb - 4gb encodes and raving about 'Blu-ray quality' and like you say some people work with .mp3 audio.

The sorry truth is that there are some easy to use scripts and far too many skill-free individuals who think they can encode properly.
They are sadly mistaken.

The truth is that kind of stuff is hardly different or better to DVD.

The .mkvs I go for are a minimum of DVD9 size, 8.5gb, usually (720p or 1080p) and come with DTS 5.1 audio @ 1500kbps.
Sometimes up to 16gbs if the film's worth it.

There's a world of difference between a quality encode done by someone with skill and talent for it - and who is not artificially limiting themselves to silly small file sizes - and most of the garbage that is out there claiming to be high definition.

For instance I noticed a recent encode of that dross Transformers ROTF, 720p @ 11gbs with DTS 5.1 @ 1500kbps.
You'd be really pushed to see that much difference between it and the retail disc.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Nov 2009 @ 22:29

129.11.2009 22:38
scum101
Inactive
1310.11.2009 12:51

I agree that some of the 1080p MKV formats are pretty much as good as Blu-ray, hard to tell the difference, unless you're an expert with eagle eyes, but when all is said and done, it's always better to have a pre-recorded Blu-ray in your hand, like having a great collection of books, it's a statement, or a pretty painting on your wall. That's why pre-recorded media will always be king.

1410.11.2009 13:22

Originally posted by Mombasa69:
but when all is said and done, it's always better to have a pre-recorded Blu-ray in your hand, like having a great collection of books, it's a statement, or a pretty painting on your wall. That's why pre-recorded media will always be king.
I guess it takes all sorts.

Personally I couldn't disagree more.

I hate all the shelves & cabinets of huge numbers of space-hungry & dust-magnet CDs, DVDs, HD DVDs & Blu-ray.

I'd swap them all (I have 500+ CDs, 1000+ DVDs & 250+ HD DVD/Blu-ray) for a little book of the coming 2tb SD cards
(and if prices fall the way they have done so with the current cards I'll even happily keep another little book of those super-capacity cards as back-up).

Personally I don't need to be making silly "statements" showing off my stuff like that, I'm forced into it by the current tech but I'll be so glad to see the back of it when the time comes.

Pre-recorded media has one thing going for it.
It's too much of a PITA with current connection speeds d/l'ing a full sized straight rip (if full lossless audio is a big deal to you).
But that will & is changing.

Meanwhile hard disc prices are making storage very reliable, cheap & easy.

Conspicuous consumption is such a bore and so 1980s - and practically just asking for a burglary.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Nov 2009 @ 13:22

1511.11.2009 4:55

HDD are too unreliable, not the best option, I certainly don't trust them, 2tb SD card i certainly wouldn't trust, you'd be screwed if one of those failed, broadband speed as you say is far too slow. And most countries don't even have mass broadband, so pre-recorded media is here to stay.

And yes books, dvd's, blu-rays, cds etc do collect dust, but then I use a hoover and duster to keep everything clean.

1611.11.2009 10:39

I don't know how you treat your HDDs but I can honestly say that in the almost 10yrs I and my family and friends have been into computing I know of only 1 case of a hard drive dying suddenly & unexpectedly.
Not one single other example (and most of my family & friends keep their PCs for 4 to 5yrs until replacing them).

I did have a Seagate drive go but that was the recent firmware problem and they fixed that and returned my drive with everything still on it exactly as it was.

I can also honestly say neither I nor anyone else I know has ever had an SD or SDHC or mini or micro or flash stick fail.

You seem to have missed my comment that a decent CD, DVD & high definition collection is a space-hungry monster, regardless of how much living area, who the hell wants to devote the necessary amount of space to all those boring little plastic cases?.

I keep my stuff dust free & very well too thank you very much.
That does not mean they are not a PITA.

Disc based media is clearly dying.
From umteen streaming services to alternative methods and outlets
(see this - http://www.homemediamagazine.com/kiosk/b...rd-kiosks-17518 )
the list is growing and ensuring that the market for physical media is being significantly reduced.

In fact the last Digital Entertainment Group report noted exactly that fact, physical media sales are falling and Blu-ray is failing to make up the difference.

I agree physical media will always be demanded by some but as other methods and means (especially those with enormous convenience attached, like VOD, streaming and downloading) are recognised and accepted by an ever bigger mass audience that can only continue to reduce & diminish further.

It's a fair comment that the rest of the world doesn't necessarily have the required internet connection to download high definition (yet) but what do we/you mean by 'the rest of the world'?

100/10 is growing all across Europe, large parts of the UK is now offering up to 24mb, in Korea and Japan gigabyte connections are on the way.
Basically in the developed world the connections are happening now.
In the less developed world they can skip the intermediate steps and go for broadband.
It's starting to happen pretty fast in fact.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Nov 2009 @ 10:40

1711.11.2009 11:03

I used to collect Beta and VHS tapes, later on I collected LaserDiscs, CDs and DVDs but I've grown very tired of buying stuff that becomes obsolete a few years later. I also hate all the wrappers, huge plastic boxes,etc. They take up space, cost money and are in the end bad for us all. I am now only buying the occasional Blu-Ray disc if it costs less than $18-20 and it is an absolute classic movie that I plan to see multiple times, ...a very rare product indeed... Predictably enough I seem to be having a healthier piggy bank and I have found some pleasure in saying "No to The Man".

I have had a couple of HD failures and have lost data. Now I have backed up all my data on safe RAID set-ups.

I am looking forward to fiber optic truly high speed internet without limitation on traffic volume. Both these requirements are in the early planning stages here in North-Western Europe. I suspect they are a few years away. Lots of inertia here.

1811.11.2009 13:02

Fair comment Siber.

It's also worth remembering that even now hard drives are so cheap that a fully safe RAID set-up is hardly expensive - 1tb drives are dirt cheap and 2tb is heading exactly the same way, fast.

They take up hardly any room too. :)

SD-type cards are interesting to me, their road-map indicates that within 2 years we'll have 2tb cards with 300mbps transfer speeds.
As I said, a nice little book of cards with all my stuff on - and if prices go the same way as the current crop of cards a spare book as back-up won't cost the earth either.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Nov 2009 @ 13:03

1911.11.2009 20:19

If you folks in the U.S.A. think you are being ripped off try looking at U.K. prices for Blu-ray movies!

Whilst I am on the subject of movies, It is about time that Studios gave us the option to buy just the bare movie on one disk, no extras if the scene was not good enough to be used in the film I personally don't want it, or the crappy trailers they now insist on including!

2011.11.2009 20:54

I'd rather they started by ensuring a high quality transfer & stop using weird effects
(one reviewer for the latest Gladiator reckoned the Romans must have had force-fields, the edge-enhancement was so bad - this is because they took the cheapo option and used the transfer optimised for DVD - the 2000 theatre cut - whereas the extended scenes looked great because they used the better later 2005 master).
Some of the high def transfers with ridiculously excessive DNR has ruined many a movie too.

Too much high def content looks very very ordinary or worse and that cannot be good if they are trying to convince people to leave up-scaled DVD behind.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Nov 2009 @ 20:56

2112.11.2009 9:12

Anonymity must be maintained to protect the innocent (myself) but I have some direct inside knowledge about the AACS planned managed copy service.

First of all, this press release is a smoke screen. They are nowhere near being ready to launch even by March and they are taking this opportunity to say "Don't worry about it as no devices will be ready to launch until Q3 2010"

On the flip side, this really is some exciting stuff. It is more then merely a "rip your blu-ray" service. All managed copy machines (Blu-Ray players) will be required to support transcode to different formats and, where appropriate, will support copy to device. Note that a PC with a BD-ROM drive and licensed player software (PowerDVD for example) would also be considered a valid managed copy machine. This all means it will be possible to get a managed copy of your movie and transcode it down to the right format so sync to your iPod or other portable device, copy to your XBox or PS3, watch over your home network, etc. All of the major movie studios are on board with the AACS planned service.

Ok, so it sucks that DRM is involved but it is nice to see the movie industry start to acknowledge that consumers have a fair use right to make copies of the content that they purchase for use on other devices then the one supported by the media itself.

2212.11.2009 10:34

Pre-recorded movies and music is always better to have than downloaded material, I've had bad experiences with HDD's anf flash drives and so have my friends and family, I'm not knocking it, just don't trust it as a format to store stuff on.

But finally downloading etc is ok for us lucky people living in rich countries, but what about those poor people not living rich countries? They have bad internet connections (those that are lucky enough to even have one) so for those guys pre-recorded media on disc/tape (copied or not) is the only option.

2312.11.2009 11:46
Daniel_1
Inactive

I have heard of stupid but this takes the cake. Just HOW are they going to let you make one copy for yourself when they have made it a federal felony for you to have programs that actually make decent copies? Not that I would own any of these programs....lol


makes about as much sense as whizzing into the wind and then complaining that you are getting wet.

2412.11.2009 17:39

Daniel_1,

The way this will work without violating the DMCA is because an authorized copy will be made by following the rules implemented by the AACS-LA organization to deliver a license from an authorized AACS license provider to an authorized managed copy machine (MCM) like your Blu-Ray player and the MCM will then be able to decrypt and re-encode the H.264 content to the correct format.

The only "authorized" way to do this on a PC would be through the use of properly authorized and licensed Blue-Ray playback software that correctly implements the MCM specifications.

2512.11.2009 18:03

Outlaw98...I am certainly not well versed in the actual science behind your explanation. Reading it does make me believe you are technically correct and I suspect you have extensive knowledge about the procedures you describe. Bravo and, I guess: Thank You.

My main concern is not really with the procedures. I want to be able to buy a reasonably priced product (disc, whatever...), devoid of carton, paper, wraps, environmentally unsafe boxes, "extra's" and complicated instructions that add up to more expense. We are usually talking about a movie of the week..."Under $10" for a "Managed Copy" is just laughable unless it's 10 cents.

2613.11.2009 5:48

You're buying a finished, polished product when you purchase a Blu-ray, complete with all the extras (garbage or not) I find the extra features work great on some Blu-ray's especially 'Wanted' (2008 film)the extra features were great, in-film menus with detailed information on the weapons etc, I thought that was great, and the PIP option of behind the scenes operations, while still watching the movie.

Prices just need to come down a little more, then i'll start buying more BDs.

This one-time copy option is ok I guess as long as therte's no charge, or what's the point?

Anyone know what type of copy removing software people use when copying Blu-rays... 'erm so I know what to avoid...' I'd never do anything illegal =),

2713.11.2009 10:13
Daniel_1
Inactive

And the strange thing is that you ALREADY can make a copy of anything you own from records to tapes to cd's to movies and it is covered under the fair use clause of the US Supreme Court Betamax decision. So it really must be so damn gracious of these idiots to say that they are going to allow us to do what the US Supreme Court has already said that we can do in a decision back in the 1970's!

And again, just HOW are we suppose to make a copy of something when these dweebs have made it illegal for us to actually have programs that will allow us to make this mythical "extra" copy?

Something stinks in Denmark, and it AINT the cheese!

2814.11.2009 10:44

After a bit of surfing and research, it's a piece of cake to copy a Blu-ray, so much for their copy-protection software, erm not that I'll do it of course lol

2914.11.2009 19:40
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by Mombasa69:
After a bit of surfing and research, it's a piece of cake to copy a Blu-ray, so much for their copy-protection software, erm not that I'll do it of course lol
I will and I dare these dumbarses to try and do a damn thing to me as the second they do I will BURY them in a court of law as they will have to show under what US Constitutional Authority they can stop me from making a copy of my movies...bluray or not!


C'Mon RIAA/MPAA make my day, I DARE ya!

3016.11.2009 8:33

well we're stuck with pre-recorded media wether you like it or not, my ISP has just restricted my download 'fair usage policy apparently) even though I'm paying for unlimited downloads.

How can downloading / downstreaming kill off pre-recorded media when bloody ISP's restrict bandwidth ffs?...

I hate living in the UK.

3116.11.2009 11:15
Daniel_1
Inactive

Quote:
Originally posted by Mombasa69:
After a bit of surfing and research, it's a piece of cake to copy a Blu-ray, so much for their copy-protection software, erm not that I'll do it of course lol
I will and I dare these dumbarses to try and do a damn thing to me as the second they do I will BURY them in a court of law as they will have to show under what US Constitutional Authority they can stop me from making a copy of my movies...bluray or not!


C'Mon RIAA/MPAA make my day, I DARE ya!
Sorry I should have been more specific. I should have said under what authority or law that would superced the US Supreme Court Betamax Decision that allows me to make copies of legally bought games/apps/music/and movies for my own personal use and as many damn times as I want to do it. Last time I looked, the US Supreme Court had the final say in this....lol.

3216.11.2009 14:03

You're allowed by law to have one copy wether it's VHS/DVD/Blu-ray or whatever, as long as you've paid for an original, a friend of mine was selling ripped DVDs at a car boot, and was recently fined 22,000, had all his stock and new van taken too.

I mean the poor guy's only trying to make a bloody living lol.

3317.11.2009 0:22
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by Mombasa69:
You're allowed by law to have one copy wether it's VHS/DVD/Blu-ray or whatever, as long as you've paid for an original, a friend of mine was selling ripped DVDs at a car boot, and was recently fined 22,000, had all his stock and new van taken too.

I mean the poor guy's only trying to make a bloody living lol.

Then maybe he should be giving them away for a small donation. Since he is not selling them whats the harm?

3417.11.2009 4:52

Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Originally posted by Mombasa69:
You're allowed by law to have one copy wether it's VHS/DVD/Blu-ray or whatever, as long as you've paid for an original, a friend of mine was selling ripped DVDs at a car boot, and was recently fined 22,000, had all his stock and new van taken too.

I mean the poor guy's only trying to make a bloody living lol.

Then maybe he should be giving them away for a small donation. Since he is not selling them whats the harm?
No, you WERE allowed to do this. THE DMCA overruled the old rulings from the 1970's. You are not allowed to have a backup of anything anymore. Even taking a screenshot is now illigal....Heil Hitler!

They have effectivly declaired me a pirate. I have often posted screenshots and even a few gameplay videos online with the hope of getting friends to buy the game. Doing this is now illigal, and they prosecute people who did so before it became illigal. Considering that I am a pirate anyway, I might as well just start pirating software and music...then I'll start boarding ships at sea to hostage off the sailors. It's all piracy, so I might as well do it right!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Nov 2009 @ 4:57


3517.11.2009 9:22
Daniel_1
Inactive

Originally posted by KillerBug:
Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Originally posted by Mombasa69:
You're allowed by law to have one copy wether it's VHS/DVD/Blu-ray or whatever, as long as you've paid for an original, a friend of mine was selling ripped DVDs at a car boot, and was recently fined 22,000, had all his stock and new van taken too.

I mean the poor guy's only trying to make a bloody living lol.

Then maybe he should be giving them away for a small donation. Since he is not selling them whats the harm?
No, you WERE allowed to do this. THE DMCA overruled the old rulings from the 1970's. You are not allowed to have a backup of anything anymore. Even taking a screenshot is now illigal....Heil Hitler!

They have effectivly declaired me a pirate. I have often posted screenshots and even a few gameplay videos online with the hope of getting friends to buy the game. Doing this is now illigal, and they prosecute people who did so before it became illigal. Considering that I am a pirate anyway, I might as well just start pirating software and music...then I'll start boarding ships at sea to hostage off the sailors. It's all piracy, so I might as well do it right!

And your ignorance of the law is breathtaking. You still ARE allowed to make a copy of what you purchased legally and even the DMCA clearly states that. Where they get you is the DMCA has made it illegal to OWN a program to make the copies. There is a major difference here and you would have known that had you bothered to read the bill. Section 1201(E)(2)(a)(b)

`(E) Neither the exception under subparagraph (B) from the applicability of the prohibition contained in subparagraph (A), nor any determination made in a rulemaking conducted under subparagraph (C), may be used as a defense in any action to enforce any provision of this title other than this paragraph.

`(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that--

`(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;

`(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title

DO YOU SEE ANYTHING IN THERE that says you cannot copy your own purchased items? If you do then you have better eyes then over 500,000 judges attorneys and patent officers. And if by chance you think you have a loophole, please post it as I am sure the EFF would love to know about it as even THEY state you have the right to copy your cd/dvd/movie...you just dont have the right to sell them or post them on the net. Jeeze Louise, this is common knowledge now being taught in grade school and in Jr High and I knew this when I graduated High School back in the Jurassic period. So what exactly is your malfunction that you seemingly do not or did not know this????

3618.11.2009 14:17

Hmm, what about owning a device like the Macromaster scart box for removing copy protection from DVDs for DVD to DVD (or VHS) standalone recording, that isn't using a computer programme, so guess that's legal?

One will eventually come out for Blu-ray.

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