AfterDawn: Tech news

28 companies sign up for new 'SOPA,' CISPA

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 09 Apr 2012 23:35 User comments (44)

28 companies sign up for new 'SOPA,' CISPA 28 companies have revealed support for the new "Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act of 2011 (H.R. 3523)."
The act was introduced by Rep. Mike Rogers and Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger and will "allow companies or the government free rein to bypass existing laws in order to monitor communications, filter content, or potentially even shut down access to online services for 'cybersecurity purposes,'" says the EFF. Furthermore, "companies are encouraged to share data with the government and with one another, and the government can share data in return. The idea is to facilitate detection of and defense against a serious cyber threat, but the definitions in the bill go well beyond that. The language is so broad it could be used as a blunt instrument to attack websites like The Pirate Bay or WikiLeaks."

CISPA is similar enough to the recently defeated SOPA and PIPA bills, both of which had good intentions for copyright holders but severely missed the mark in regards to privacy and censorship.

The 28 companies are:

AT&T
Boeing
BSA
Business Roundtable
CSC
COMPTEL
CTIA - The Wireless Association
Cyber, Space & Intelligence Association
Edison Electric
EMC
Exelon
Facebook
The Financial Services Roundtable
IBM
Independent Telephone & Telecommunications Alliance
Information Technology Industry Council
Intel
Internet Security Alliance
Lockheed Martin
Microsoft
National Cable & Telecommunications Association
NDIA
Oracle
Symantec
TechAmerica
US Chamber of Commerce
US Telecom - The Broadband Association
Verizon

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44 user comments

110.4.2012 1:29

Nice of you to provide a boycott list, saves me some trouble.

I don't mind switching to AMD, Intel.

210.4.2012 1:33

My father works for one of those companies... wtf am I going to do now? I can't just go on over to the company and start protesting, besides protesting is supposed to be a last resort.... I guess I'll have to sit this out out. :/


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310.4.2012 3:32

What has become of the USA Constitution ? Especially the parts about right to keep private, probable cause and due process ?

The net is just an extension of telephony with video, evidenced by the saturation of telcos milking the net. I fear when it becomes a violation of copyright law for my radio ot TV to be audible while using the telephone.

We are rapidly heading to the police state tipping point in the US. Vote with your billfold and boycott the "alleged persons" ass mit romney calls them. I saw the typo but left it.

DP70

410.4.2012 7:41

Too much money backing this,.

510.4.2012 8:41

Looks like the KGB will be running the country soon.

610.4.2012 8:48

Quote:
My father works for one of those companies... wtf am I going to do now? I can't just go on over to the company and start protesting, besides protesting is supposed to be a last resort.... I guess I'll have to sit this out out. :/
So let me get this straight; because your father works for one of these companies, you feel you are not allowed to voice your opinion?

There are more ways to protest than standing outside a building; you do know we have entered the digital age right? There are protests sheets all over the net you can sign your email (or a fake email) to, to show support against these bills. I don't even live in US and I petitioned against them.

Don't give in to them simply because your father works for them. Besides does your father share the same opinion? Have you even asked his thoughts on it? If he's worked for the company for a while, it shouldn't even be a concerned if he voiced his opinion on it. If he got fired for being controversy to company views, that would smell like lawsuit to me.

710.4.2012 9:45

Seeing Facebook on this list doesn't surprise me at all since everyone on the planet knows Facebook doesn't give a rats a$$ about peoples privacy and cant wait to sell our information for a profit.

810.4.2012 10:54

Freedom was and will always be a way to make others rally to a cause but now corporate American has seen fit to tread all over the rights that are protected under the constitution. the freedom of choice ... look I think everyone should have health care but not forcing those who choose to gamble to buy it if they don't have coverage then go to a pharmacy and fix your own boo boo not run to an emergency room because you stubbed your toe. that said since when has the government of the united states ever censored us for our own good? like owning hand guns our choice has always been ours who do these few company's think they are to even jump on the band wagon next the list will be who we are allowed to buy from ... this needs to stop before we end up like north Korea

910.4.2012 11:22

Originally posted by Mysttic:
Quote:
My father works for one of those companies... wtf am I going to do now? I can't just go on over to the company and start protesting, besides protesting is supposed to be a last resort.... I guess I'll have to sit this out out. :/
So let me get this straight; because your father works for one of these companies, you feel you are not allowed to voice your opinion?

There are more ways to protest than standing outside a building; you do know we have entered the digital age right? There are protests sheets all over the net you can sign your email (or a fake email) to, to show support against these bills. I don't even live in US and I petitioned against them.

Don't give in to them simply because your father works for them. Besides does your father share the same opinion? Have you even asked his thoughts on it? If he's worked for the company for a while, it shouldn't even be a concerned if he voiced his opinion on it. If he got fired for being controversy to company views, that would smell like lawsuit to me.
I understand what you say, but with the way a union works, if it ever was traced back, he would be fired for sure. unions are the pit of all evil imo. "that's my own personal opinion, no need to fuss" this is why I'm trying to stay cautious around the issue, I'd rather not be the cause of his employment troubles after he worked for over 3 years to find another job. I'm all for freedom, but the position I would put my dad in would be a bad one. It's not just me and my dad here but 5 other people.... It was hard enough before. I'll contact my local representative and senator, all I really can do.

One things for certain, the union that is MPAA,RIAA & all of Hollywood needs to be put into place, these people are the dark side of business, the kind of business that have no moral, no ethic and no concept of anything but more money and this is what happens when the extreme left wing see's the power hold and struggles to continue possession.

I'll probably be banned and or flamed for that comment, but I have to say it otherwise who will? It's unfortunate people have gotten themselves into this situation, I love my country and hate to see it bending over for government and "special" interests, this isn't what our founding fathers had intended. I've always said, when everyone leaves because those in power drained the last out of our great country, I'll be here to re-build... I just hope that time never comes.

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1010.4.2012 11:55

wow ww3 damn your in a situation

1110.4.2012 11:57

Originally posted by A5J4DX:
wow ww3 damn your in a situation
I know, that's why I can't do anything...

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1210.4.2012 13:11
Geekachu
Unverified new user

Originally posted by nintenut:
Nice of you to provide a boycott list, saves me some trouble.

I don't mind switching to AMD, Intel.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I like AMD better it works better with Linux.

1310.4.2012 13:36
Geekachu
Unverified new user

Originally posted by wspdl:
Seeing Facebook on this list doesn't surprise me at all since everyone on the planet knows Facebook doesn't give a rats a$$ about peoples privacy and cant wait to sell our information for a profit.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think we should all go back to Myspace

1410.4.2012 14:29

WW3, voicing your opinion and helping spread the word by word-of-mouth is doing something.
Not all of us can stage sit-ins down at Wall street! Some of us have to earn a living.

Don't sweat the little things.

1510.4.2012 14:40

Originally posted by ThePastor:
WW3, voicing your opinion and helping spread the word by word-of-mouth is doing something.
Not all of us can stage sit-ins down at Wall street! Some of us have to earn a living.

Don't sweat the little things.
actually, I'm not a member of #OWS, and I guess I could see how you might have come to that conclusion... I've always considered myself a goldwater consevative and completely understand how you feel. I've basically been a forced neet since I was 16 because of all the moving I've done, and now I am grasping at the chance to attend college now that we have settled down... I swear we need to go back to the 1930's as a society, something went wrong.

Custom Computer rebuild 2.80GHZ@6cores/8GBRAM|3DS | WII|360|PS3|

1610.4.2012 15:50

I appologize. I did not mean to imply you were a member of OWS, as I am not, either.
I only meant that for many of us, simply talking about the issue in public forums can constitute "support".
:D


Oh, Im sorry... Did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?

1710.4.2012 15:54

Originally posted by ThePastor:
I appologize. I did not mean to imply you were a member of OWS, as I am not, either.
I only meant that for many of us, simply talking about the issue in public forums can constitute "support".
:D
Oh alright lol I guess I just read it wrong xD. I guess I could link this on some forums I visit from time to time,but honestly... I am getting pretty sick of the internet *shock* maybe it's just because of being stuck for so long....

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1810.4.2012 16:01

It seems that some of my Sci Fi rantings have come to a bit of fruition?

So the Gov can't spy on its own people, so they'll let the corporations do it for them. Then let them 'volunteer' the information to said Gov... for what? Immunity? And what does this immunity supposedly have to be from?

Here's a little known fact some of you folks may not be aware of... say you have a problem with your landlord. No hot water. You've called up repeatedly to get it fixed, but each time you do he does nothing, but blow you off & makes excuses. So finally you give him an ultimatum of either fix the hot water or your going to report him to the housing authority. That's when he threatens your life.

But, no one is going to believe you, right? So say you get a recorder & record the conversation. Is it legal? The answer is an astounding )*YES*(!!! So long as one of the two parties involved know the conversation is being recorded, the action is legal.

Bugging is completely different. There's no conversation. This crap with the Gov is a pure outright police state & must stop immediately. Not to mention Rep. Mike Rogers and Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger need to have their asses thrown in jail for thinking up such legislation much less drafting it up and getting the 28 companies to comply.


1910.4.2012 16:14

Originally posted by LordRuss:
It seems that some of my Sci Fi rantings have come to a bit of fruition?

So the Gov can't spy on its own people, so they'll let the corporations do it for them. Then let them 'volunteer' the information to said Gov... for what? Immunity? And what does this immunity supposedly have to be from?

Here's a little known fact some of you folks may not be aware of... say you have a problem with your landlord. No hot water. You've called up repeatedly to get it fixed, but each time you do he does nothing, but blow you off & makes excuses. So finally you give him an ultimatum of either fix the hot water or your going to report him to the housing authority. That's when he threatens your life.

But, no one is going to believe you, right? So say you get a recorder & record the conversation. Is it legal? The answer is an astounding )*YES*(!!! So long as one of the two parties involved know the conversation is being recorded, the action is legal.

Bugging is completely different. There's no conversation. This crap with the Gov is a pure outright police state & must stop immediately. Not to mention Rep. Mike Rogers and Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger need to have their asses thrown in jail for thinking up such legislation much less drafting it up and getting the 28 companies to comply.
See that's how they get us, both members are of opposite parties, but represent the same goal as long as "hey were working together" is able to fool the majority, they can get away with whatever they want! Something changed, I know I've already said this but it needs to be drilled in. I understand with each new generation people become a little more liberal than what was considered normal when the patents were younger. But this is an absolute joke, if not a travesty of justice.

We need to get the country out of debt and out of peoples lives, it can't be sitting there as a backup, this is the end result of that plan! Everyone prepare for another 4 more years of carter, they have already fixed the vote!

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2010.4.2012 16:21

The thing that gets me is that people will always find a way. There is no such thing as absolute security, and these companies will continue to plague out internet, our country and our lives.

When the voice of the people is no longer heard, the movement and power of the people needs to be set into place. The government has needed a radical change of pace since the 90s, and we are too lazy as a people to do this. We are about to give up the one thing that matters to us, which is our freedom. They will strip us of all the things that those who are fighting for are sworn and dying to protect. My personal opinion, and i will not back down from this: Remove those in power who threaten the freedoms of those who live here. Hollywood needs to quit crying because people are stealing their stuff. If it wasn't so expensive to go out and do this stuff, im sure most wouldn't. I do it because i don't support corporations that feel it necessary to rob those of everything we hold dear. Better start getting your affairs in order people.

2110.4.2012 23:47

Originally posted by LordRuss:
It seems that some of my Sci Fi rantings have come to a bit of fruition?

So the Gov can't spy on its own people, so they'll let the corporations do it for them. Then let them 'volunteer' the information to said Gov... for what? Immunity? And what does this immunity supposedly have to be from?

Here's a little known fact some of you folks may not be aware of... say you have a problem with your landlord. No hot water. You've called up repeatedly to get it fixed, but each time you do he does nothing, but blow you off & makes excuses. So finally you give him an ultimatum of either fix the hot water or your going to report him to the housing authority. That's when he threatens your life.

But, no one is going to believe you, right? So say you get a recorder & record the conversation. Is it legal? The answer is an astounding )*YES*(!!! So long as one of the two parties involved know the conversation is being recorded, the action is legal.

Bugging is completely different. There's no conversation. This crap with the Gov is a pure outright police state & must stop immediately. Not to mention Rep. Mike Rogers and Rep. Dutch Ruppersberger need to have their asses thrown in jail for thinking up such legislation much less drafting it up and getting the 28 companies to comply.
The laws on that vary from state to state. In many states both parties must be made aware the conversation is being recorded, otherwise it's still illegal.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Apr 2012 @ 23:49

2211.4.2012 1:44

I'm actually surprised Facebook is on the list. With SOPA/CISPA Facebook could easily get shutdown by Hollywood if someone posts a link to a copyrighted MP3 or even a movie trailer.

Time to start drafting letters to my Senators again...

2311.4.2012 4:08

Originally posted by WW3:
Originally posted by ThePastor:
WW3, voicing your opinion and helping spread the word by word-of-mouth is doing something.
Not all of us can stage sit-ins down at Wall street! Some of us have to earn a living.

Don't sweat the little things.
actually, I'm not a member of #OWS, and I guess I could see how you might have come to that conclusion... I've always considered myself a goldwater consevative and completely understand how you feel. I've basically been a forced neet since I was 16 because of all the moving I've done, and now I am grasping at the chance to attend college now that we have settled down... I swear we need to go back to the 1930's as a society, something went wrong.
I am with OWS since before 8-17-11. We awakening people ;)
#OpDefense
http://bit.ly/Ixnbe0
http://www.securitynewsdaily.com/1718-anonymous-boeing-hack.html
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Apr 2012 @ 4:32

Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

2411.4.2012 4:18

Originally posted by R0gueW0lf:
The laws on that vary from state to state. In many states both parties must be made aware the conversation is being recorded, otherwise it's still illegal.
Only with audio, but if: is video or picture in it; Is not illegal.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 Apr 2012 @ 4:29

Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

2511.4.2012 11:17

Originally posted by Mrguss:
Originally posted by WW3:
Originally posted by ThePastor:
WW3, voicing your opinion and helping spread the word by word-of-mouth is doing something.
Not all of us can stage sit-ins down at Wall street! Some of us have to earn a living.

Don't sweat the little things.
actually, I'm not a member of #OWS, and I guess I could see how you might have come to that conclusion... I've always considered myself a goldwater consevative and completely understand how you feel. I've basically been a forced neet since I was 16 because of all the moving I've done, and now I am grasping at the chance to attend college now that we have settled down... I swear we need to go back to the 1930's as a society, something went wrong.
I am with OWS since before 8-17-11. We awakening people ;)
that's great to hear, but if you truly want to resolve the situation run for congress don't take to hacking, the risk isn't as steep.

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2611.4.2012 11:19

Originally posted by R0gueW0lf:
The laws on that vary from state to state. In many states both parties must be made aware the conversation is being recorded, otherwise it's still illegal.
Although I didn't mention it, you are correct, the does indeed vary... However, NO, if it is JUST you and ONE other party, the legality is grayed into 'your' favor. That's what makes it so dangerous.

Why do you think shows that broadcast crank calling never get successfully sued? Because of the explanation given.

You may want to use the justification of other establishments alerting you to the fact that say a phone conversation is being recorded, but that's to alert you to the fact you can't back out of a contract.

No folks, this is a special kind of dispensation that allows corporations to cross state lines & pear further into your privacy than just 'recording a phone call' (as it were) & reporting back to the government. It's a blatant obliteration of the understanding that the government NOT spy on its own people.

And it's NOT for our own safety either... George Orwell was a British novelist & I'm an old fat bastard... yet here we are.

2711.4.2012 18:07

Originally posted by WW3:
...that's great to hear, but if you truly want to resolve the situation run for congress don't take to hacking, the risk isn't as steep.
Do not believe in Politicians: all of them are coming from the same elite families and they only take $$$ from the corporations who support them and do not represent us, The people anymore !

LOBBYING : Closer to Bribery or Extortion? http://bit.ly/IfgxFR


Live Free or Die.
The rule above all the rules is: Survive !
Capitalism: Funnel most of the $$$ to the already rich.

2811.4.2012 18:32

Originally posted by Mrguss:
Originally posted by WW3:
...that's great to hear, but if you truly want to resolve the situation run for congress don't take to hacking, the risk isn't as steep.
Do not believe in Politicians: all of them are coming from the same elite families and they only take $$$ from the corporations who support them and do not represent us, The people anymore !

LOBBYING : Closer to Bribery or Extortion? http://bit.ly/IfgxFR

I never claimed to, but in order to work through the system we need to have at least one good and honest person on the inside. The more people work through the system, the more independent thinking people who actually run for the system, the better the chance of actually cleaning up the system and reforming it.

It was once said that you can't buy anything "made in america" anymore, I find that totally untrue. Just look up on Pennsylvanian Avenue and you'll see hundreds of made in America's! The problem isn't just "left v right" it's a major change in the way the media works, the way the army works and the way the presidency works. When we finished up WW2, all of those vets who went on to become reporters did it to protect the country as a common interest, now it's to protect the interests of each side, they could give a damn less about what happens, as long as the media on both sides pushes for everything to be "fair" and "equal"... They are/were and always have been destroying the very fiber of America. Hard work and dedication, we didn't go to the moon spending 5 months teaching jimmy 2+2 when the rest of the class was learning to divide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NygesJGqIdw

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2912.4.2012 10:23

I would wager that within a year after implementation of CISPA, the MPAA will use it to bludgeon ISPs into blocking Slysoft.

3012.4.2012 11:06

Originally posted by Blessedon:
I would wager that within a year after implementation of CISPA, the MPAA will use it to bludgeon ISPs into blocking Slysoft.
I say half the time at least.

Custom Computer rebuild 2.80GHZ@6cores/8GBRAM|3DS | WII|360|PS3|

3112.4.2012 11:58

Intel & Microsoft on the List? they would be at a major loss with these Anti-freedom law's passing i wonder what computer are used for when looking and reading document's of law's & prohibition? is Only allowed


Save Freedom Dont Elect Law Making Religion Nut Republicans

3213.4.2012 22:01

Man, don't they get it??

No one in the US wants these idiotic laws shoved up our butts.

If they pass this crap, and I wouldn't put it pass them, then there's going to be a revolution of sorts in the US, whether economic or other methods.

3317.4.2012 1:27

Originally posted by wspdl:
Seeing Facebook on this list doesn't surprise me at all since everyone on the planet knows Facebook doesn't give a rats a$$ about peoples privacy and cant wait to sell our information for a profit.
They *already* sell your information. Most users don't realize that, as far as FaceBook is concerned, the users *are* the product...

3417.4.2012 1:36

Originally posted by phobet:
Originally posted by wspdl:
Seeing Facebook on this list doesn't surprise me at all since everyone on the planet knows Facebook doesn't give a rats a$$ about peoples privacy and cant wait to sell our information for a profit.
They *already* sell your information. Most users don't realize that, as far as FaceBook is concerned, the users *are* the product...
I had a secret account with them for a few friends I "tripped" the security system they had. I sent an email to them about it, they want a phone number, or a government id card... I told them I couldn't produce that. They wanted a scan of my birth certificate, or a credit card scanned "numbers removed" or a billing statement, or several other very personal documents. I think it's a little extreme, with the little being very, very sarcastic. I guess this is what happens when you deal with someone based out of san fransicko.

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3517.4.2012 1:41

Originally posted by Mrguss:
Originally posted by WW3:
...that's great to hear, but if you truly want to resolve the situation run for congress don't take to hacking, the risk isn't as steep.
Do not believe in Politicians: all of them are coming from the same elite families and they only take $$$ from the corporations who support them and do not represent us, The people anymore !

LOBBYING : Closer to Bribery or Extortion? http://bit.ly/IfgxFR

They stopped representing us as soon as the courts deemed that "corporations are people" too. Only the corporations can afford to pay for lobbyists to carry forth their agenda, while the actual people are marginalized because they can't pay enough.

3617.4.2012 1:51

Quote:
CISPA is similar enough to the recently defeated SOPA and PIPA bills, both of which had good intentions for copyright holders but severely missed the mark in regards to privacy and censorship.
So it would seem that they have hit the mark in regards to privacy and censorship. With the "war on terror", they can justify ignoring the first, and accomplishing the second, as long as its in context of fighting the newest "ism"...

3717.4.2012 7:18

Originally posted by phobet:
Originally posted by Mrguss:
Do not believe in Politicians: all of them are coming from the same elite families and they only take $$$ from the corporations who support them and do not represent us, The people anymore!
LOBBYING : Closer to Bribery or Extortion? http://bit.ly/IfgxFR

They stopped representing us as soon as the courts deemed that "corporations are people" too. Only the corporations can afford to pay for lobbyists to carry forth their agenda, while the actual people are marginalized because they can't pay enough.
May I say; that I keep regular contact with [most of] my elected representatives, and have been honored to meet and engage in discussions with several , but not those who have been there the longest usually end up on the Dark Side. I often hear the misused aphorism; "They're all corrupt!", but it is grossly untrue. Please believe me; We have some truly outstanding and honorable representatives, trying to right a foundering ship - made so by apathetic, uninformed, yet opinionated voters who look up nothing, but will repeat the TV's propaganda believing that they know all they need to.
The "system" is not "broken"; the voters are. Jefferson presciently noted: "If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become as wolves"...and so it is.
Daily, lazy voters complete their tasks, then activate the propaganda display. They drone to the endless tabloid shows, nod compliantly to the "news", read no books with their family, yet annually cast their nation's fate with ignorance.

3817.4.2012 11:10

Originally posted by Blessedon:
Daily, lazy voters complete their tasks, then activate the propaganda display. They drone to the endless tabloid shows, nod compliantly to the "news", read no books with their family, yet annually cast their nation's fate with ignorance.
Eloquently put sir, how do you propose we solve such a state?

Without causing a severe violation of Rule #15, Radicals of either the L/R are said to practice within the confines of Jefferson's parameters, but I'm sure we wouldn't have a one of them in charge.

Quoting great leaders of the past may put things in a historical perspective as to poignantly state that we're repeating ourselves, but does little to offer balance. And I don't mean having the pendulum swing 180 in the opposite direction. That's no good either.

Reading isn't the full answer either, as with any propaganda, 'garbage in = garbage out'. Just because it was in print doesn't make it any less believable or harmful. Somewhere there has to be a barometer of balance. I'm not saying it's CNN, but it certainly isn't Fox News either. Equally so, religious dogma can be a dangerous ground for which many a war has been the basis of, thus an absolute to avoid.

If you're saying people should get involved, then pray tell, how & why... Honor & integrity of what originally bore this nation into existence still had 'some' merit. Sans the argument of some, people back then were brought up differently. Your word did actually mean something.

When both can now actually have a price & be literally bought, no amount of literacy is going to undo that kind of damage. What tabloid fodder do you speak of is televising that? I believe it's called the evening news.

Maybe it is I that's a bit hopeless. I really do want to believe that more people are smarter than 'that' & are simply beaten down by our elitist government officials & their lust of greed & their loss of touch of the fact that they're still human themselves.

Facts are, individuals left in these positions of power become drunk with it. Thus, career politicians should NEVER exist. Obviously, a long enough history of this practice has occurred to know the effects, so a cap must go into place a stands WILL be maintained. Period.

Like the military, any infringements will be dealt with in the most forceful & merciless of fashions as they are expected to live to a higher standard than the rest of us, so why shouldn't the damned politicians? Therefore I believe this would not only cut down on special interest, but also this kind of belligerent social rights injustices.

If nothing more, it's a start.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Apr 2012 @ 11:10

3917.4.2012 11:14

Originally posted by Blessedon:
Originally posted by phobet:
Originally posted by Mrguss:
Do not believe in Politicians: all of them are coming from the same elite families and they only take $$$ from the corporations who support them and do not represent us, The people anymore!
LOBBYING : Closer to Bribery or Extortion? http://bit.ly/IfgxFR

They stopped representing us as soon as the courts deemed that "corporations are people" too. Only the corporations can afford to pay for lobbyists to carry forth their agenda, while the actual people are marginalized because they can't pay enough.
May I say; that I keep regular contact with [most of] my elected representatives, and have been honored to meet and engage in discussions with several , but not those who have been there the longest usually end up on the Dark Side. I often hear the misused aphorism; "They're all corrupt!", but it is grossly untrue. Please believe me; We have some truly outstanding and honorable representatives, trying to right a foundering ship - made so by apathetic, uninformed, yet opinionated voters who look up nothing, but will repeat the TV's propaganda believing that they know all they need to.
The "system" is not "broken"; the voters are. Jefferson presciently noted: "If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become as wolves"...and so it is.
Daily, lazy voters complete their tasks, then activate the propaganda display. They drone to the endless tabloid shows, nod compliantly to the "news", read no books with their family, yet annually cast their nation's fate with ignorance.
It all really started with the "new deal". The way elected officials used to be placed was as a representative of the governor of each state, but with the passing of the new deal, the way things worked changed. No longer did elected governors appoint members of congress, the elected official was appointed by the popular vote, ushering in the ability for massive corruption.

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4017.4.2012 11:26

Originally posted by Blessedon:
Originally posted by phobet:
Originally posted by Mrguss:
Do not believe in Politicians: all of them are coming from the same elite families and they only take $$$ from the corporations who support them and do not represent us, The people anymore!
LOBBYING : Closer to Bribery or Extortion? http://bit.ly/IfgxFR

They stopped representing us as soon as the courts deemed that "corporations are people" too. Only the corporations can afford to pay for lobbyists to carry forth their agenda, while the actual people are marginalized because they can't pay enough.
May I say; that I keep regular contact with [most of] my elected representatives, and have been honored to meet and engage in discussions with several , but not those who have been there the longest usually end up on the Dark Side. I often hear the misused aphorism; "They're all corrupt!", but it is grossly untrue. Please believe me; We have some truly outstanding and honorable representatives, trying to right a foundering ship - made so by apathetic, uninformed, yet opinionated voters who look up nothing, but will repeat the TV's propaganda believing that they know all they need to.
The "system" is not "broken"; the voters are. Jefferson presciently noted: "If once the people become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress and Assemblies, Judges and Governors, shall all become as wolves"...and so it is.
Daily, lazy voters complete their tasks, then activate the propaganda display. They drone to the endless tabloid shows, nod compliantly to the "news", read no books with their family, yet annually cast their nation's fate with ignorance.
It's not about being lazy, because I'm not. It's not about thinking that all politicians are corrupt, I don't think that at all. It's not about believing that the system is broken, because it isn't. The system is working exactly as designed. Unfortunately, most politicians have "shiny ball syndrome". Those that donate the most get their attention. As well as dealing with professional lobbyists, who are professionals at *holding* their attention. You cannot compete with that, as the average voter cannot afford to donate as much as special interest. Also, the average voter is neither trained to manipulate their politicians (and they shouldn't have to be), nor do they have the amount of resources available to them that a lobbyist does. And most voters (those that are still gainfully employed, despite the economy) still have to show up for work. So where do they find the time? Now you could say that if they really believed in a certain issue, they would find the time. But then it becomes a choice of "Do I put food on the table, or do I spend more time on a certain issue". It's an unfair advantage special interest has.

4117.4.2012 13:35

Originally posted by WW3:
It all really started with the "new deal". The way elected officials used to be placed was as a representative of the governor of each state, but with the passing of the new deal, the way things worked changed. No longer did elected governors appoint members of congress, the elected official was appointed by the popular vote, ushering in the ability for massive corruption.
You are referencing the 17th amendment; THE most liberty-trampling, corruption-inducing product in legislative history.
For those unaware; the 17th amendment was designed, written,and lobbied by the banks and insurance companies. It was ratified in April of 1913; two months after the 16th; which established the Income Tax, then followed by the establishment of the Federal Reserve, later that year.
With the passage of the 17th, senators were no longer appointed directly from the States' legislatures - where the appointees had been responsible to the people and could be recalled, instead it was sold to the people that electing their senators would give them more choice. Instead what occurred was that senators could be more easily bribed through elections by the banks.
Together, the three aforementioned acts ripped control of their government away from the people, and initiated the downfall of the United States into what will likely be communism if the incumbent is reelected in November.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 17 Apr 2012 @ 13:37

4217.4.2012 14:53

LR - The easy answer?

Term limits

The better answer?

Abolish the two party system.


Oh, Im sorry... Did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?

4317.4.2012 18:30

Originally posted by ThePastor:
LR - The easy answer?

Term limits

The better answer?

Abolish the two party system.
I can see that working... Public flogging might be of some benefit too.

4417.4.2012 19:02

Lynch mob like the good old days. Government should be founded on rules and structure, much like the rules that they pass onto us.

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