Xbox 360 and PS3 - flops instead of gigaflops?

Hah! I knew Xbox 360 was a flop! I don't know about the PS3, but what I've seen, it seems to be pretty solid for graphics and fps. As for this multithreading, I think it could have been held off, unless you could play a good game and watch a movie at the same time using 2 HDTVs, but who knows. At any rate, you could just buy or, for the better, build a nice PC and have the same result or better in most cases, so PC Gamers come out on top again!

I would like some pancake flops. Personally, I couldn't care MUCH about the technology that powers the game. I AM who I am, and I am a gamer. I will learn and research the technology up to a CERTAIN point where I think it will be enough. I don't want to learn how many gigahurtz makes my brain hurts and I don't want to know how many pancakeflops make a terraflop in which it makes a certain number of pizzapixels. I want to know whether the game is a groundbreaking game or a bad game, or simply a great enjoyable game.

I'm pretty sure that this article was removed because it was unfounded garbage.

From what I see , X-Box has never been the system for outstanding performance anyway, as for PS3, I know it will rock and the future of PS3 games will be awesome!

PC games have been and will continue to be the way to go. can't trust something developed basically only by one company, 'cuz they (can/will) screw you without competition.

not true. each console has its uses.being a PC, PS/2/3 or Xbox/Xbox 1.5 (sorry, Xbox 360). i find First person shooters on any console besides PC awful. But then i find thing slike Final Fantasy 7 on the pc absolutely abismal, and love them on PS. It depends waht your preference is. Dan x

preference it may be, but with computers you can be relatively sure what you're getting...i'm paranoid, i know, but i don't trust consoles, their producers, or anything associated with them...even though i play on teh ps2 regularly :-/

I've read specs on both consoles and both will be nice. The bottom line is that you buy the console that has the games that you want to play. In my case, I'll end up with both anyway. That's the gaming business.

I don't know what it is with PS2 lovers that makes them put XBOX down every chance they get. Have you even compared the visuals/graphics of the 2 consoles? And what makes it even more frustrating is that they still think PS3 will be better than XBOX 360. Are you kidding me? With three times the processing power, XBOX will still perform worse than PS3? Let's not be ignorant on the facts people. I agree, PCs are great, but the amount of games for PCs is something left to be desired when you compare games on a console. PC games are made with minimum requirements. With console games, every developer knows what every game player's performance characteristics will be. Manipulating these qualities is what makes consoles more appealing to most people who can't afford a $2000 computer when they want excellent graphics.

Console gaming is by far better than PC gaming. Who wants to come home after a hard day in front of the office PC and try and relax on the home PC. I want to chill out on the couch with a great console game.

after a hard day at my job (groundskeeper), i love to chill in front of the pc; it lets me game and do much more without getting off my rump. it all comes down, as spooky said, to preference.

I have been a long time ps fan and when ps and nintendo 64 came out I ultimately thought ps was the best...naturally it is what i owned and played enough to judge, so then when ps2 and xbox came along i chose the ps2 without hesitation and bragged it up told everybody how it was the best way beter than gamecube or xbox...then mountaint dew had a little promotion going collect caps and pts off cases for free stuff i got an xbox and only payed for shipping after a mere month of playing it i realized how much better the performance of the xbox was compared to the ps2 and traded in my ps2 and all my games for xbox games,so coming to the point.. for all u ps gamers out there who keep trying to tell everyone how much better ps3 is going to be than the 360 save cause you dont know squat till you try it.

Czhill: incase you're wondering, im not just an sony fanboy who automaticaly hates teh xbox. i have my reasons. First week xbox was released, i was excited by its release and thought i'd attend an 'xbox demo parrty' thing to see what the xbox was like, there were 10 xbox consoles in the room, and each and every one of them crashed several times during one night.At one point, all of them were frozen. This was my reason for not buying an xbox. MY PS and/or PS2 have NEVER frozen or crashed on me. I bought my PS2 from the first pre-ordered batch that came to this country, so the hardware is old as can be...i've had NO problems with it at all. The reason i dubbed the Xbox 360 the xbox 1.5 is because it really is just the xbox 1.5. Sony are aspiring t reach greater heights with the PS3 and the PS3 is the next generation. teh xbox 360 is no where near next generation gaming, though its not standard gaming, its somewhere in between, and so, i dub thee, Xbox 1.5. (or 180, whichever floats ur boat). Dan x

It sucks that you had sucha terrible experience with the XBOX at first. I have never had my XBOX freeze up and I had it in November of 2001, when it was first released. I think PS2 is a great machine. I loved playing GTA 3, MGS 2 and other PS2 only titles. I have been a Sony fan since I was a kid and own several high end Sony products. But, if I see something that obvioulsy out performs another type of product, I'll get it. I researched the XBOX and held off on buying a PS2 because I have faith in Microsoft, Bill Gates, and the BILLIONS of dollars that back the XBOX. Gates is in it to win, and that's exactly why he plans on releasing the XBOX 1.5 (or whatever) before PS3 with 3 3.s Ghz processors. He is showing everyone that he can sell a "computer" with three times the power of Sony's next gen, and do a damn good job of it. It seems Sony has been content with it's domination and got lazy. Bill Gates wouldn't have entered this market unless he knew he could dominate like he does with everything else Microsoft markets (i.e. Windows, IE, etc.)

yeah, but you can't tell me that it was "excellence" and "quality" that made Windows, IE, etc dominate the market. The monopoly that he has in the PC world is one thing... but in the game world you have to do a lot better than that... we'll just have to wait till PS3, XBOX 360, and the Revolution are released before anyone can really say which one is gonna domintate, win, whatever...

the one thing that the PS2 has for me over the xbox is that although the xbox is more powerful (i think, correct me if i'm wrong), there are games on it that are so well made, you raelly cant see the performance difference. Halo is supposedly the xbox's flagship...it looks no better than Final Fantasy 8. Dan x

http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2453 They simplified the article and made more references. Probably figured why have 2 of the same articles, so deleted the slightly older one.

Owning both the ps2 and xbox. I conclude that the xbox is the better system. I have had to replace my ps2 because the dvd drive went out on it. It was a slight bit older than the xbox though. The deciding factor for me was the built in HDD. Upgradable, modifiable and re-flashable. How many games can you store on a ps2. 0!!. how many games, software, music can you store on an xbox. 50+ games, some archives and a butt load of music, (with a 250 gb HDD). Not saying i do that, cuz its illegal.

Haha. But who's stopping you, right? Halo is the flagship of the XBOX. Bungie, the company who created Halo, was bought out by Microsoft so this ground breaking game would be exclusive to the XBOX. I have had some friends who have told me about the Thompson drive not reading the discs on their XBOX's. I believe the rate is 1%. Very comparable to Game Cube's error rate. Any DVD based machine, computer or even player, usually has the same problem. Jauzzi said it best, we'll just have to wait and see what they deliver. I am not sure if any of who have had the chance to play Spliter Cell: Chaos Theory, but if you do, it's a real visual treat. Halo is known for it's vast worlds, as in size. Also known for this is the Final Fantasy author's huge game, Fable. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory is tweaked to utilize every aspect of the XBOX. Check it out if you get the chance. If you don't, compare the "actual gameplay" images on the backs of both an XBOX and PS2 versionof Chaos Theory. Those images in itself show the benefits.

playstation already announced that there will be defective ps3's!and the controller looks like a boomerang!i always liked playstation over xbox so accordingly i was going to buy the ps3 untill i read articles and saw pics.plus microsoft is pushing them into a earlier release date and they will not be ready!so for all you playstation fans have fun,but i will not even think about buying one of those peices of crap!

Owning xbox and ps2 i can easily say that xbox is much better.but that was because it was made later. You can't really say which one is better but ill make an educated guess that ps3 is better 'cause -games -better hardware -more i/o -potential linux

Like you said, XBOX was made later. Therefore you would think the hardware would be better and there are going to be less games that PS2. Both are true. The hardware has been announced for both units. In this case, the hardware in 360 is better than the PS3. XBOX wins. Games will be made for XBOX before PS3 even enters it's debut year. XBOX will not be second in number of games like it was before.

tisk* tisk* tisk* Aren't fanboy arguments great. Really, though, it isn't all that serious. One developer is bound to have a better system. I, myself, always buy every system (lucky me, huh). But it depends on your viewpoint. Some people are concered more about raw power than great gameplay and vice versa. I will definitely buy all three. P.S. The PS2 did release significantly earlier than the xbox. -- As time, itself, progress so does technology and contrary for price.-- Crappy yet relevant quote by me.

First Off, czhill (Newbie)

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Like you said, XBOX was made later. Therefore you would think the hardware would be better and there are going to be less games that PS2. Both are true. The hardware has been announced for both units. In this case, the hardware in 360 is better than the PS3. XBOX wins. Games will be made for XBOX before PS3 even enters it's debut year. XBOX will not be second in number of games like it was before.

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Owning both the ps2 and xbox. I conclude that the xbox is the better system. I have had to replace my ps2 because the dvd drive went out on it. It was a slight bit older than the xbox though. The deciding factor for me was the built in HDD. Upgradable, modifiable and re-flashable. How many games can you store on a ps2. 0!!. how many games, software, music can you store on an xbox. 50+ games, some archives and a butt load of music, (with a 250 gb HDD). Not saying i do that, cuz its illegal.

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I don't know what it is with PS2 lovers that makes them put XBOX down every chance they get. Have you even compared the visuals/graphics of the 2 consoles? And what makes it even more frustrating is that they still think PS3 will be better than XBOX 360. Are you kidding me? With three times the processing power, XBOX will still perform worse than PS3? Let's not be ignorant on the facts people.

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PS _ sorry about the miss spellings, i guess there isnt a editing button on here.

liez4love "the ps3 will have three times the processing power, as it will be using the cell processor" wtf? you, at this moment in time, have had first hand experience of both ps3 and 360 processors and are able to rationally compare them then have you? spooky2k "Halo is supposedly the xbox's flagship...it looks no better than Final Fantasy 8." real time graphics compared to fmv then? how can you compare a fps with a ff game (i.e. no gameplay whatsoever)? [apologies to any dumbass-story-adventure game fans out there reading...oh wait, they havent got time to read this, they probably need to level up their character] rastasker " playstation already announced that there will be defective ps3's!and the controller looks like a boomerang!" again, wtf? defective ps3s? like there were no defective xboxs, ps2s, ps1s, psps,gamecubes, dreamcasts, snes, or megadrives you mean? i've yet to hear of any piece of technology to be perfectly constructed/designed or that never breaks unexpectedly. btw it has also already been stated that the pics of ps3's pad and the model shown at e3 were from an early prototype, and will likely change completely before release. don't wet your pants just yet i expect sony will just modify slightly the current ps2 pad design, as ms have done with 360s pad. czhill "Have you even compared the visuals/graphics of the 2 consoles?" and "In this case, the hardware in 360 is better than the PS3. XBOX wins" and neither have you, seeing as virtually all the ps3 footage from e3 was pre-rendered, as was probably a lot of the 360 stuff. don't you remember all the visual treats the ps2's emotion engine promised before it came out, and to a lesser extent the xbox? as for the 360 hardware being better than ps3 - again i must be in a forum where all the people are developing games on ps3 & 360 dev-kits right now - i'm truly honoured. seriously, it just makes me cringe when i read all these idiots bang on [sorry for flaming but it had to be done!] about how one console will beat the other, the graphics are better, the games are better, my nob's bigger than yours etc ad nauseum. grow up the lot of you and just, for christ's sake, wait until you have actually played with the things before venting your opinions. Don't believe the playground hype please - you'll just make yourselves look more stupid. and no, i did not get up the wrong side of the bed this morning, but my hayfever is really pissing me off!

I just love reading all of this stuff about PS3 vs Xbox360. People will be debating this for a long time to come. At E3 none of the demos shown were run on finalized hardware from either side. Graphically the two consoles will be similar, but it is in the game play where the two will differ. And here is why: "At any rate, Playstation 3 fanboys shouldn't get all flush over the idea that the Xenon will struggle on non-graphics code. However bad off Xenon will be in that department, the PS3's Cell will probably be worse. The Cell has only one PPE to the Xenon's three, which means that developers will have to cram all their game control, AI, and physics code into at most two threads that are sharing a very narrow execution core with no instruction window. (Don't bother suggesting that the PS3 can use its SPEs for branch-intensive code, because the SPEs lack branch prediction entirely.) Furthermore, the PS3's L2 is only 512K, which is half the size of the Xenon's L2. So the PS3 doesn't get much help with branches in the cache department. In short, the PS3 may fare a bit worse than the Xenon on non-graphics code, but on the upside it will probably fare a bit better on graphics code because of the seven SPEs." So let the debate continue...lol In the end, you buy the console that has the games that you want to play. There is always a game on one system that won't be on the other. In that case, I'll buy one of each...lol Happy gaming!!

i really don't know what the big deal is. I've always used my pc for gaming. I manage quite well finding plenty of games to play. I find you can only complete so many games a year anyway and there is always a good selection to choose from. I have an x-box that i ended up using for movies after playing halo on both the pc and xbox. i let the people at pc gamer determine what are the best games and make my selection from that. currently playing warcraft online and that will keep me busy for a long time to come.

Liez4Love, you are an D BAG. Not because of your comments, but for 2 reasons. 1) You put these people down. We’re having a discussion, not an argument. And 2) You say FRIGGIN way too much. Liez4Love (Member) [QUOTE] <B><I>Haha,, umm sorry to bust your bubble kid,, but , i think you got the wrong specs,, You might want to try looking at them again.. Or you might seriosuly have no idea what you are talking about,, so, in that case,, maybe you should do some more research. <B><I>[/QUOTE] How about you do your own research? Wait a minute, I’ve done it for you. I know exactly how you will respond. http://www.majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/ Liez4Love (Member) [QUOTE]<B><I> Second, PS3 is fully compatible with ps1, and ps2 games, that right there is more then then all of the xbox games. put together. <B><I>[/QUOTE] You have got to be kidding me, right? Have fun playing Crash Bandicoot 1 while I’m playing Halo 3 online. Liez4Love (Member) [QUOTE]<B><I>awh jeeze you have to ruin your warranty, and open it all up,, however, for people who have no time to really look up these things, the ps2 has a slot right in the back,, where you simply slide a normal hardrive in.. Now, lets see, you said you use a 250 gig hardrive in your xbox, NO FRIGGEN WAY< because ps2 can do just that to, and is one step ahead.. And i still have no friggen clue what you are talking about being re-flashable and modifable, you act as if you have never see a ps2 modded, which brings me to the conclusion, once again, you have made no research. <I><B>[/QUOTE] I’ll just go down to the local Circuit City and pick up one of those expandable hard drives you were talking about. OH, WAIT, they don’t exist. Does the expndable port exist? YES. But it is worthless without the actual DRIVE. Ever heard of the 64DD? Same damn concept that no one bought into. [QUOTE]<B><I>Umm WOW, haha you really got those mixed up, the ps3 will have three times the processing power, as it will be using the cell processor. I really dont feel like explaing all of this, so please look at the specs again.<I><B>[/QUOTE] Visit http://www.majornelson.com/2005/05/20/xbox-360-vs-ps3-part-1-of-4/ zubnut (Member) [QUOTE]<B><I> czhill "Have you even compared the visuals/graphics of the 2 consoles?" and "In this case, the hardware in 360 is better than the PS3. XBOX wins" and neither have you, seeing as virtually all the ps3 footage from e3 was pre-rendered, as was probably a lot of the 360 stuff. don't you remember all the visual treats the ps2's emotion engine promised before it came out, and to a lesser extent the xbox? as for the 360 hardware being better than ps3 - again i must be in a forum where all the people are developing games on ps3 & 360 dev-kits right now - i'm truly honoured. seriously, it just makes me cringe when i read all these idiots bang on [sorry for flaming but it had to be done!] about how one console will beat the other, the graphics are better, the games are better, my nob's bigger than yours etc ad nauseum. grow up the lot of you and just, for christ's sake, wait until you have actually played with the things before venting your opinions. Don't believe the playground hype please - you'll just make yourselves look more stupid.<B><I>[/QUOTE] THIS IS A DISCUSSION. CALM DOWN. Second, the first quote of mine references PS2 and the current XBOX. SO YES, I HAVE COMPARED THEM AND YOU COULD TOO. The second quote is also true. Once again, check out the link. The hardware is compared with actual numbers, which you can’t beat. It’s how you use it, but when it come to JUST the hardware, XBOX 360 wins. I HAVE A BIGGER NOB THAN YOU DO.

I love reading comments by the so called "hardcore pc gamers" that always want to rip on consoles. I mean PC gaming for the most point is MMORPG and First Person Shooters. What else is there for the PC but the PC is suppose to be all this and that much better than the consoles. I am a creature of variety and I am sorry but I don't want get an expensive gaming pc that I had to spend a minimum of $1500 dollars just to have it considered a gaming computer on the low end to just play flight simulators, reality simulators(Sims), fps and MMORPG. On a console I can play RPG, Adventure, Sports, Racing Simulators, fighting, puzzles and many more genres. Besides who is going to tell me that playing madden on PC is better than on a console with your best friend right next to ya? NO one that's who! Plus remember that the 360 and the PS3 aren't just gaming consoles, but "entertainment centers". Those to devices will be entertainment centers with out the high cost of rigging your computer to be a Media center. You can bet that the 360 will have "tivo-like" features to download televison programs and it supports HDTV. Imagine being able to download contents from the web on your harddrive and because it is upgradeable and removable, that you can just store what ever you want to store on it and when it is full to compacity you can just plug in another device. Plus imagine that since the both the 360 and the PS3 will supply USB ports, you can hook up an external dvd-r drive and just burn "back copies". I truly think that that the 360 will come out on top in the next "consoles wars".

@czhill yes i have compared them, i have both consoles and i will probably buy both the next-gen ones too- i need an excuse to buy a higher-def projector. i also play the odd game on pc. the ps2 has better looking graphics on some games and the xbox on others - its not the freakin "numbers" that count it's how the games are programmed you moron. and that aplies to next gen too in case you don't quite get it... i mean the cray supercomputer's awesome on numbers (pisses all over the 360/ps3!) but i can probably get a better game on an atari ST for fuck's sake!! idiot! yes, i can see your nob is bigger, it's sticking out the front of your friggin head!

http://interviews.teamxbox.com/xbox/1190/Xbox-360-Interview-Todd-Holmdahl/p1/ This is for Liez4Love,you doucebag

Does anybody think that playstation will make a new name for the playstation,or in 20 years will we have playstation 9???

looks like some poeple her dont really know what the cell chip is................funny thing if 360's CPU chip is strong why did sony's get chosen by the military for advance graphic data processing "Mercury Computer Systems to license PlayStation 3 chip for "data-intensive applications"--including possible military uses." http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/06/29/news_6128332.html i wonder why not 360's chip? its just so much more powerfull right? sony lies right? the cell chip is all hype and CGI show right?

oh check out this link Factor 5 is working exclusively with PS3 and the reason is performance...... http://news.cnet.co.uk/gamesgear/0,39029682,39189338,00.htm "The choice boiled down to performance, Eggebrecht said at E3 in Los Angeles. His company has worked with Microsoft's Xbox 360, but found PlayStation 3's 3.2GHz Cell chip offered more processing power. The additional performance will allow the team at Factor 5 to more easily simulate the real world for a better game experience, he said."

more info on the uses of the cell chip for the military http://www.mc.com/cell/press.cfm the cell must have the processing power they need to run their stuff

those charts are from the MS which they sent to IGN and now every site on the internet is qouteing it first of all let me disprove one of those false charts MS made ( the general purpose processoring power chart) MS claims they have three time the processing power of the cell but thats based on their preassumption that the cell is just one POWERPC processor if you any research on cell the chip consist of one powerPC core and 8 subcores all runing at 3.2ghz......and yes the sub cores are full whole processors and are general purpose processors so how can microsoft claim they more processing power when the cell chip has 9 total http://www.famitsu.com/game/news/20...,37203,0,0.html notice how the SPE are general purpose cores i think MS asumed the SPE are VU like most sites on the internet were even so the average person doesnt know what cell, spe, and VU are so its easy for MS to put out a chart and say we are three times stronger and have people believe it( most will go in their mind "oh look one cell and three processors.......hmm 360 must be stronger") MS i believe took avantage of that (note* the 360 does excel in general integer processing over the cell but.........when it comes to imageing and graphics they dont work off of integers but nonlinear math this is something the cell has no problem doing.........dont let that chart fool you general purpose processing is not for straight graphics processing if you think about it GPUs are not general or integer based processing but they excel in what they do (graphics) plus over all math calculations per second(called flops)that can be performed on ps3 are double that on 360 and the good thing about it is most of it is geared towards non integers

rastasker

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XBOX will not be second in number of games like it was before

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Second, PS3 is fully compatible with ps1, and ps2 games, that right there is more then then all of the xbox games. put together

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You have got to be kidding me, right? Have fun playing Crash Bandicoot 1 while I’m playing Halo 3 online.

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I’ll just go down to the local Circuit City and pick up one of those expandable hard drives you were talking about. OH, WAIT, they don’t exist. Does the expndable port exist? YES. But it is worthless without the actual DRIVE. Ever heard of the 64DD? Same damn concept that no one bought into.

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liez4love "the ps3 will have three times the processing power, as it will be using the cell processor" wtf? you, at this moment in time, have had first hand experience of both ps3 and 360 processors and are able to rationally compare them then have you?

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PS, czhill, nice quotes...

@ czhill " i havent physically compaired them, however judging on the specs, i have decided the ps3 " and whose published "specs" are you judging them on? why sony's and m$'s own specs of course! you're so clever! maybe you should get your own ideas and stop sucking on all the bullshit? sony or m$ would never beef up their own figures to suit their own case would they? i despair for you people i really do...

sorry, the above was meant for liez4love not czhill!

Altho from all the crap yokofire has been spouting maybe it should be for him too! he even defeats his own argument against the 360 in one post! don't believe the numbers! and what about all this crap about military uses of the cell processor - i suppose the military are going to produce some great game for the ps3 are they, or will they let us all have a missile trajectory/target designation program where we can view live spy satellite data or something from our own armchairs. if the military are to use it, doesn't that make you think it might not be designed for a videogame console? my god, the world is full of fuckwits!

Alright, cocksuckers. I'll go through the DOUCHBAGS comments one by one. @zubnut You may be correct, but I would like you to point out one game that looks better on PS2 than it does on XBOX. I'm not saying your wrong, but I have yet to see it. Please let me know. @rastasker I don't think they will want to change the name. The way video games are going, the may ladder up with a premium gaing system for those that could drop around $1000 or something, but the PS name will stick because it's known. I remember when they were advertising the PS2, and they had a fake commmercial for the PS9. Not that they have it designed, but I thought it was funny that you said 9 and they had already made a commercial hinting at the possibilities. @Yokofire Cell technology is new. Of course there are going to be experimental applications. The military has been using PC based processors for decades. Why not try something new? @Liez4Love I said, "You've got to be kidding me." becuase I find it hilarious that you are counting PS1 and PS2 games. That's ridiculous. For clarification, XBOX 360 will have more XBOX 360 games than PS3 will have PS3 games. If you want to count games from previous consoles, Nintendo wins with the Revolution. THey plan on having a network where you can download games from previous Nintendo products. Speaking of network, Sony doesn't have a online gaming network even close to comparable to XBOX Live. Silly Sony. And about the hard drive. Read FAQ number one, fucker. And while you're at it, read 4 as well. http://www.playstationpro2.com/misc/ps2_online_faq6.html Sony PS2 is NOT plug and play. What hard drives are anyway? Sorry you were born so stupid. I usually don't bash people but you keep asking for it, just like your mom does. Oh well. @Yokofire I see your point with Factor 5, however they are nothing compared to the big developers. Now that would be news. I hate Liez4Love. (not really, but this is fun)

@czhill gt4 on ps2 looks slightly better than forza on xbox. yes, they're different games but you'll never see the same aaa titles on both machines as they're always exclusives, and they are both supposed to be the benchmark racing games on their respective formats. this is on LOOKS ONLY i'm talking about before all the fanboys start up again. even if you take san andreas as the most recent hit for both machines- yes the ps2 graphics were shite, but the xbox version's graphics are only marginally better and they had how long to convert it? and i am speaking from first hand experience as i have all the above games. my point is the specs/numbers being bandied about as if they are gospel are more worthless than a second hand toilet roll - its how good the programmers use the tools to make the games that count.

p.s. a good example is the factor 5 developers. i remember when gamecube was coming out and they promised their star wars game would be almost identical to the film (where the x-wings attack on the death star)... the biggest load of bull i ever heard, well after sony and m4 anyway...

@yokofire and speaking of factor 5, don't be surprised if sony suddenly become a major shareholder in the company if they aren't already - i expect they got a nice exclusivity bonus from sony as well for their next gen game. how many other developers have recently said the opposite (i.e. "m$ have best tools" "360 is easier to program for" "bill gates loves me blah blah"), but then they turn out to be majorly funded by m$. again, stop feeding on the bullshit, it'll give you indigestion and/or very smelly crap.

bang... another one down. i'm in a battle of wits against an unarmed foe

When I said XBOX wins on hardware, it does. Now, I completely agree it's the games that count. I emphasized JUST hardware in my earlier post. The programming of the game will show the true talents of the manufacturers. I am not feeding off of the propaganda of PS3 or XBOX. Just stating the facts on certain aspects.

okay i feel all of you guys out there who are saying no this system will be more powerful and no this system will be more powerful and the better console. With all respect the best or better console is not now, has never been and will never be the system with the most power. Power of the system doesnot make it a better console to buy. Proof of my point is already in existance as facts that x box is more powerful than ps2 but doesnot provide the fun factor that ps2 can. I know someone is going to argue xbox is just as fun and you have the right to that opinion. But your opinion is shared by only a minority of games throughout the world. If consumers and gamers really thought xbox was the superior overall system then they would be more competition to sony instead of the 90 million ps2 owners worldwide compared to the 22 million xbox owners worldwide. I know the ps2 came out first and had a jump on sales but still xbox has 22 million units sold "worldwide". Sony has more gamers in one country than microsoft has throughout the entire world. Games make the system. Power doesnot so it doesnot really matter if the ps3 is more powerful or the xbox 360 is the winner. Either one of them could easily be knocked off their pedistals if they dont provide us the world with plenty of great games to keep us busy and that take advantage of that power the system has to offer. And just to make the point that just one or two of the best games ever made does not make up for 30 great games. Soon those 2 games will get boring and those 30 great games will still be providing the other gamers with hundreds of hours of entertainment without being burned out on the same game. That is why there are only 22 million xbox owners. Xbox is a great system. They have some great games out but they need more great games to narrow the edge with sony. I dont even think that neo geo could touch snes. Snes had the games and that is what most of the world wanted not the superior power system but the overall superior system. Games do give that edge and make or break a systems sales and profits. Which ever company get the games that will attrack the gamers will be crowned the king again as ps2 was in the previous war. Not the system with the most power. In my opinion if microsoft provides the similiar number of great games to the number that sony provided to it gamers, then microsoft is going to have just as hard a time trying to beat sony's ps3 as they did before even if they release the xbox 360 early giving them a jump on sales. Sony in the past gave the world the games they wanted and I still think they will do the same with the ps3. Microsofts needs to make sure they get more great exclusives games to its xbox 360 than it did to the xbox if they want to persuade the world they will be the system to buy in the next generation war of systems. And i promise if they have the games then they will outsell the ps3 and i myself who am a sony supporter will buy a xbox 360 instead of a ps3 b/c i want the games man.

Americans

What's that suppose to mean?

@czhill you're stating the facts on hardware? and whose facts are those exactly? when we see some unbiased views from people other than anyone with an interest in sony/nvidia or m$/ati, and that have had first hand experience of both of the full-spec hardware dev-kits (which sony have only just sent out to developers by the way), then and only then will we have a more truthful picture of the strengths and weaknesses of each machine. @lxhotboy oh god, another one! the only reason that sony sold four times as many ps2s as m$ sold xboxs is because of the playstation brand that they had built up in the previous 32bit generation. xbox was new and unknown to the masses. i dispute completely it was because of the games - most ps2 games were/are complete tripe - i bought enough of em to know! sony did not provide virtually any games to its users, nearly all ps2 games were/are third party produced anyway, as opposed to nintendo and to lesser extent m$ (although admittedly m$ bought most of their developers - though at least they made that investment). probably why most ps2 games were shit - no quality control, just like ps1 days too. the reason neo-geo never sold anywhere near enough against snes or megadrive was simply because the neo-geo carts were more than twice the friggin price of snes/megadrive games, and they were usually arcade games only (beat em ups/shoot em ups). you obviously never had to buy your snes games as a kid - did mommy buy them for you? and you even defeat your own argument about the number of games sony had which caused ps2 success and that if m$ did same as sony for 360 it would fail? that makes no sense at all mate or are you intentionally talking bollocks. and no i would never have guessed you're a sony supporter. which league are they in? or do you mean that you stand outside their hq and cheer when they turn up for work? i'd rip my right arm off and beat some sense into you if i didnt need it for typing. battle of wits indeed...?

p.s. for any uninformed yanks - the megadrive was the uk version of the sega genesis

zubnut, if it is a battle of wit that you need i advice you to battle with someone else. First 22 million is not exactly 4 times less than 90 million. Second you must be really a genius to be the only one in the world to know that neo geo games cost so much back in the day so i admire your wits. Even if they cost the same as Snes or genesis at the time they still did not have enough games to beat either system. Man are you smart, NUT. LOL. Third I mentioned that microsoft needed more exclusives to take the postion of number one system and they do but no where in the writing did i state that sony actually made all the games that helped it to that number one spot. I think you need help with your comprehension skills NUT. Where exactly did i mention that i owned a snes NUT. Do you see it??? Can you find it??? Please highlight it and put it into a quote for all of us to see NUT b/c i missed it. I did not say that nor did i ever own a snes NUT. I think you also need some help with your interpreting skills. I agree you do need that right arm so please dont for your sake rip it off. Make sure you use that right arm to do something that will help your wits like fill out an application to a college or some type of educational establishment to tighten up your wits NUT. LOL

Czhill Wow your fucking dumb czhill, that stuff their talking about on your link,, yeah, thats about playing FFXI.. Naw shit a normal hardrive cant pick up FFXI, seriosuly, dude, and then you think your bashing me.. Let me just show you what you sent me to save the time.

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1. When is the official PlayStation 2 hard drive coming out? The PS2 hard disk drive came out on March 23, 2004. NOTE: You need an official Sony network adaptor to power the HDD.

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4. Can I just use any hard drive I have laying around and install it in my PS2? The HDD Utility Disc (which contains the HDD drivers) only works with the official Sony hard drive. You can't play Final Fantasy XI on a regular drive. Besides, there is no way to get FFXI without the official HDD.

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I’ll just go down to the local Circuit City and pick up one of those expandable hard drives you were talking about. OH, WAIT, they don’t exist. Does the expndable port exist? YES. But it is worthless without the actual DRIVE. Ever heard of the 64DD? Same damn concept that no one bought into.

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Alright, cocksuckers

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@zubnut I completely agree, we'll have to wait. Also the comment about Sony having a market share from PS1 days was exactly right. @lxhotboy 88~90 so let's drop that point. Second, I am sure XBOX will have some more exclusive games coming out and I think it's done well with the games it has. For example Splinter Cell, Halo, etc. As far as the amount of exclusive games, I don't know what they have in mind. Halo 2 helped Microsoft beat Sony in sales for a month or so because of it's exclusivity. I think Microsoft has plans for other games as well. I'm sure Sony does too. That was a good point to make, though. Okay Liez4Love. Asshole. Whatever. I never said you couldn't put a hard drive into a PS2. However, why would Sony have stopped the whole hard drive option/process? Because it wasn't practical. I am sure there is some guy out there who has modded his XBOX to play PS2 games. You can do anything with a console if you spend time and money on it. The hard drive thing has never caught on. I have a lot of friends who have PS2 and ZERO of them have ever heard of such a thing, let alone done it. So while it may be possible, you have to mod it yourself. Quote 1 was to show you that you can't just plug in the drive like you said. Also, you'll have to get a third party driver if you want to work the thing. Sony stopped making it available because it wasn't profitable. Quote 4 shows how you can't just expect any HD to work. It will VOID YOUR WARRANTY, which you said is the only way to mod your XBOX. FUQ. What are you talking about the Comp USA thing for? I wasn't trying to sell you something, I was proving to you that you can't find a Sony Hard Drive at ANY retailer. Pay attention. Oh, I did make up the cocksuckers thing too! "HAHAHAHAHAHA!" You like that? "HAHAHAHA FRIGGIN IDIOT!" Change your name to BONER so every knows who they are talking to.

HAHHahahahaahah lets all bash eachother and start a giant quoting flame war that will take us no wheree... followed by a shit load of HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHA's as an attack at the other person BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAH you morons! YOUR MOM

@lxhotboy wow, you confirmed all my pre-conceptions about you in one post. well done indeed. yes, 90 million is not exactly four times 22 million. i bow to your amazing knowledge of maths. you truly are a genius, i just wish i had your aptitude for figures. maybe, rather than a simplification of the facts just for the purposes of simple speed when making posts here so that you would understand, i should have actually written "4.09recurring". what a tit! clearly i also made the mistake of actually thinking you had a valid opinion on the neo-geo/snes thing, and that maybe that you had owned one or other of those machines. hah, me the fool eh? oh wait... now that you admit you never owned a snes, it just shows that you have absolutely no knowledge or first hand experience of the neogeo and snes/genesis era of gaming, and therefore no fucking idea what you are talking about. so congratulations on proving to everyone what a complete waste of space your so-called opinion is. btw try reading my post again - i actually made the point about not only the price of the neo-geo games but that they were all arcade games. if you have more than one brain cell you would have known that arcade game conversions (in particular snk ones only) were not exactly everyones cup of tea when it came to playing videogames at home. this is from your previous post "In my opinion if microsoft provides the similiar number of great games to the number that sony provided to it gamers, then microsoft is going to have just as hard a time trying to beat sony's ps3 as they did before even if they release the xbox 360 early giving them a jump on sales. Sony in the past gave the world the games they wanted and I still think they will do the same with the ps3" actually, you twice state that it was sony who provided the games to ps2 which is what made it number one in the market, despite your pathetic denial in your subsequent post (sorry i'm trying not to use words with more than two syllables for you but it is difficult). i think you ought to read your own posts before accusing me of misunderstanding them. or are you just learning the english language- i can recommend some good books if that is the case. i pity you mate. a completely unarmed person if ever there was one... @metacoola why bother posting that? guess some people have real problems- you should get that twitching finger thing seen by a doctor, really.

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clearly i also made the mistake

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well that was a pathetic reposte - hardly worth wasting the spring in your keyboard for, was it? typical yank - resorts to abuse when the argument is lost. in case you didnt quite get it the "clearly i made a mistake" bit was sarcasm. you should probably go ask mommy to help you look that up in the dictionary (that's a big book with lots of words in) still no reply uh? well, one last point then. i have to say i am very disappointed that you have consistently managed to perpetuate the stereotypical image of americans. i would just like to take this moment to apologize to all other americans listening who may feel some semblance of shame at this point. please don't take it personally. i know it's a well known fact that most americans cannot comprehend sarcasm and it's wonderful nuances, or indeed have much of any sense of humour at all (in some cases), but please don't feel bad about it. just take comfort from the fact that at least you think you are important, and that's all that matters at the end of the day. p.s. lxhotboy, if none of that made sense to you either, better get that dictionary out again mate, or ask your "tutor" what it means. do they have pre-school tutors, i thought they were called nannies?

americans

Czhill newbie

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I never said you couldn't put a hard drive into a PS2. However, why would Sony have stopped the whole hard drive option/process?

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I’ll just go down to the local Circuit City and pick up one of those expandable hard drives you were talking about. OH, WAIT, they don’t exist.

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So while it may be possible, you have to mod it yourself.

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Sony stopped making it available because it wasn't profitable.

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Quote 4 shows how you can't just expect any HD to work. It will VOID YOUR WARRANTY, which you said is the only way to mod your XBOX. FUQ

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I was proving to you that you can't find a Sony Hard Drive at ANY retailer. Pay attention.

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Change your name to BONER so every knows who they are talking to.

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Liez4Love. First of all. FUQ. Do you know what that means? Sound it out. FUQ = FUCK YOU. Get it? Apparently not. Listen, dip shit, when I make a typo I get really realy upset. I don't like making mistakes. I cry sometimes. Actually, if you want to get into typing and grammatical errors, you should probably quit while you can. You have the worst sentence structure of anyone on this thread, you can't communicate worth shit and the worst part is you have a small dick. Second, I am a [BOLD]Newbie[/BOLD] to these forums. Thank you for stating the obvious. If you are going to measure your life accomplishments by a label that you received from AFTERDAWN FORUMS, go ahead. I don't really give a shit what is next to my name. You seem like you feel it is quite important to have MEMBER by your name. Well, good for you. I bet your mom would be proud. Now go type to yourself some more. You seem to like to hear yourself talk. After your done typing, go look in the mirror and masturbate because that is modt likely the best you will ever get. OH WAIT! "Did you know that Liez4Love is a [BOLD]MEMBER!!!![/BOLD] on AFTERDAWN FORUMS?!" I bet you get a shit ton of pussy for that. Third, when I said 'mod' I meant in a way that was not intended for the sytem. By your definition, a new controller, a DVD remote or a multitap is a 'mod'. Get with it. Fourth, Sony did make a reader for the HD. BUT THEY STOPPED MARKETING ON IT. Do some research. You can only get third party readers now. Fifth, I GUARANTEE that your warranty will be voided if you put a third party HD in your Sony. You may be able to 'unmod' it for lack of a better term, by taking it out. And, no, 'unmodding' would not include unplugging you memory card or removing your controller. Sixth, FFXI. Great, one game. Keep 'em coming Sony. They're selling like hot cakes. I never said that they never sold them, but you can't go to any retailer NOW and get a HD for multi-purpose reasons. Seventh, "HAHAHA, who is cocksuker? is that like a name or something?" What a bitch. Finally, I hope you have some input to this discussion that us adults are having. Please post something worthy that may move this along. I don't expect that though.

whew, look at all this foul language and flaming. no doubt, some of you are getting banned.

did nut trying talking again. Oh my bad i did not hear him.

how about not abusing the fine english language you yanks !!

@ deaf as well as stupid? you have my pity sir. don't quit pre-school just yet, you may learn something. i would recommend the "debate" class - i think that's what you have in the good ol' us of a isnt it? anyway try that, and don't give up the argument so easy next time - g w bush isnt president for nothing - he refused to accept that he was stupid too, and look how far he has got.

@lxhotboy deaf as well as stupid? you have my pity sir. don't quit pre-school just yet, you may learn something. i would recommend the "debate" class - i think that's what you have in the good ol' us of a isnt it? anyway try that, and don't give up the argument so easy next time - g w bush isnt president for nothing - he refused to accept that he was stupid too, and look how far he has got.

i had to post it twice so that he would hear it - i always have to repeat myself to deaf (or ignorant) people

and "my bad" ??? it's very sad when people copy language from videogames for everyday use. just shows that they have no intelligence or imagination of their own. shame really. i'm sure san andreas was a mature rated game so why lxhotboy got hold of it i don't know! @auslander if someone wants to ban me for speaking up against the cretins who continually espouse bull as fact, then they are more than welcome. i would expect no less from the land of the free, and free speech. that's more sarcasm by the way lxhotboy.

zub, AD is based in Finland, which doesn't have the "freedom of speech" clause in it's Constitution the same way as we have, i don't believe. but youngens do get on here, and we're expected to behave properly in front of them.

i know, i noticed that on the "about" page after i posted but i couldnt be bothered to edit again. i just assumed it was u.s. based because all the times quoted are on the american eastern clock... why the hell is that if this is finnish site? are we not proud enough in europe to quote our own time zones anymore? don't get me started on who invented the internet... please!

I wonder who Zubnut is argueing with. You seem to be pretty heated up budy but you are honestly argueing with yourself b/c i am not going to get mad or argue with you man so you might as well chill out. LOL

zub, if you can't be bothered to edit a post, you shouldn't have the time to make one.

i agree

having the time and having the will are two very different things ;) as for chilling, lxhotboy, there's plenty of time to chill when i'm asleep at night. i just love a good discussion/argument- it gets the creative juices of the mind flowing, don't you think? unfortunately though, you didnt give a very good argument ... but never mind eh?

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having the time and having the will are two very different things ;)

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and what does that mean exactly? this is all becoming very philosophical, but i like it...

it's the same thing as being superman and not using your powers. if you can't correct your mistakes and use your abilities, you don't belong on AD :-P

this is good :) i didnt feel it was absolutely necessary for me to edit the post because regardless of whether the site is based in the us or europe, the freedom of speech ideology applies in both territories. not forgetting of course the small fact that this site uses the eastern standard clock for forum postings, which seems to blur it's true origins. if everyone had a similar obligation to correct all their mistakes (intentional or otherwise) on all posts, apart from the servers crashing(!), we would never be able tell what was originally posted or has been subsequently surreptitiously altered to suit. is that not fair comment? edit: and using my abilities is what i was trying to do in the first place in order to put certain people straight on the "facts". if people cannot admit when their arguments are fundamentally flawed, i am afraid that is something they will have to resolve with their own conscience, if they feel so insecure as to not correct their mistakes on this forum [edit2:] by a separate post obviously- with reference to my other point above ;)

however, your argument is fundamentally flawed in that you have forgotten the rules of engagement and conduct here on AD. regardless of what nation this site is based in, it has it's own rules about what is acceptable and proper. everyone has the ability, not necessarily the obligation, to edit their posts. many chose not to, and this is a testament to the fact that many people don't understand the purpose of a post-editing function: to save one's own ass from eternal bannation. *edit* by correcting one's mistakes in later posts instead of editing the original, one appears simply to be attempting to increase one's post count for the sake of rank, whether that is the case or not.

whoa, this so far off topic it's scary :) i fail to see how any of my arguments are fundamentally flawed. please read all my posts and enlighten me further to any fundamental flaws you find. and as for rules of engagement, tell me where it says; "thou shalt not give counter arguments for anyone's posts on this forum" or "thou shalt not contradict someone's asinine or incorrect opinion of fact" or "thou shalt not inject a little humour into your arguments for any issue"

as long as a discussion is worthwhile, it is generally allowed even if it is far off topic.

sorry, cross-posting/edits going on here, please see my last edit of above post...

Czhill

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the worst part is you have a small dick.

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Second, I am a [BOLD]Newbie[/BOLD] to these forums

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Third, when I said 'mod' I meant in a way that was not intended for the sytem. By your definition, a new controller, a DVD remote or a multitap is a 'mod'. Get with it.

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Fourth, Sony did make a reader for the HD. BUT THEY STOPPED MARKETING ON IT. Do some research. You can only get third party readers now.

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Fifth, I GUARANTEE that your warranty will be voided if you put a third party HD in your Sony. You may be able to 'unmod' it for lack of a better term, by taking it out. And, no, 'unmodding' would not include unplugging you memory card or removing your controller

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I never said that they never sold them, but you can't go to any retailer NOW and get a HD for multi-purpose reasons.

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Seventh, "HAHAHA, who is cocksuker? is that like a name or something?" What a bitch.

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Finally, I hope you have some input to this discussion that us adults are having. Please post something worthy that may move this along. I don't expect that though.

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czhill is gone for being a foul mouthed jerk and you're treading on thin ice Liez4Love - being a member you should know better. As for the rest of you - THE NEXT PERSON TO MAKE AN OFF TOPIC OR NEGATIVE PERSONAL COMMENT TOWARDS ANOTHER MEMBER WILL BE BANNED IMMEDIATELY. This goes for all you no matter what it says below your nick. Our forums are a place to share information and have a good time - they are NOT the place for idiotic ego displays and childish arguments. I'm not kidding here folks.

*edited to save my ass*

lucky you did too, i was just about to retort again!

The dominate system between the xbox 360 and PS3 is a debate that could go on forever but like i said before the power of the system is not going to determine which company will do better in the next generation. If either of the systems had a Athalon 64 or Pentium D they still are not going to be dominate without a library of games to support the system. Earlier it was mentioned that Halo 2 put xbox ahead for a few months and that is a good start for them but if they want to disrupt sony they are going to need make more sales than sony for a much longer time period than just 1 or 2 months. So if all microsoft can come up with is the Halo series to try and help them catch up with sony then they had better be prepared to release Halo 3, 4, 5 ,6 and 7 all on the xbox 360 in a short period of time to keep them ahead of sony. PS2 had more than just a few good games. If most of the games consumers want come out exclusively for the ps3 then history will repeat itself. Then we will be back here in a year or so saying told you so that the PS3 would outsell the xbox 360 like the ps2 did the xbox. I thought the hype about how popular the xbox would be was just talk and it turned out to be just talk and all i see is de ja vu in the competition between these new 2 systems that will be released in the future. Sony will win again. Maybe not in such a lopsided dominance but i think they will still be in the number one spot.

Bye zubnut. Thanks for the off topic post after my warning.

this site I thought would be useful ,but jerry springer show is here ,this is the first time I have read anything like this !!!!!!! jerry springer wants you- zubnut vz lxhotboy, this is a joke ! why dont you exchange emails and keep it to your selves or go back to kinder garden. im not sure wether i wish to read any more posts on this whole site

Oh, Lord give me strength. Welcome to AD mickerry and being that this is your first post I'll go easy but the "stay on topic" warning applies to you to ;) Now with all that nastiness out of the way I'm sure that if you take the time to explore our forums you'll find that threads such as this one are the exception rather than the rule and that we have many fine folks here ready to help out :)

I agree with the software argument; it's licensing and quality of games that shift units, not so much the hardware. And when focusing on the hardware..all the CPU power in the world means Jack when you can't back it up with GPU bandwidth. I recently bought Resident Evil 4 on the GC (US version). It is one of THE best games I've ever played..it's well-written and looks fantastic. Whether it runs on current or Next-Gen is not important to me, because the all-important elements of game-play and atmosphere are there for all to see. Next-Gen will obviously be better..but that doesn't mean to say that the quality of games will improve much, beyond eye candy. CPU power is meaningless unless you back it up with quality software and a GPU engine that can kick serious ass when used to full effect. Unfortunately it's down to who has the most money - who can sell systems at a loss in the knowledge that they'll get a good return when big-name titles come out.. Like PC's, there seems to be too much focus on CPU bandwidth; AMD or Intel..it matters not when you're running current games, which require the best GPU you can afford to get the most..

i was going to read about the 360 or the ps3 but read the comments i found this site doing a seach for playstation forums os i could find a link to some diagrames

i think the best part of this whole thread are those "Get a free PS3" advertisements... did anybody click on any of those just for the heck of it??? if it takes you to a porn site, let me know...

Here's to getting back on track. While games are single threaded now, and won't take advantage of the CPU's today, they will in the console lifespan. These consoles are built to compete against PCs for five years. Within 2 or 3 years, games will be multi-threaded. Hence, the next-gen is prepared. Anandtech was a little rash, that's why it was pulled.

One thing i find very intresting is how the consoles specs are now better then my pc's. Which was quite different about 5 years ago. So this will definatly compete with the pc's better this time around. ps sorry for that argument, i got mad, andi shouldnt have, thank you very much for not banning me.

Auslander, nice art (sorry Nephilim, but it has to be said). Mind if I have an opinion/info demographic here? I was going to say something about the gaggle of flamers and haters, but decided not to so I won't get banned, cuz I love this site. This constant bashing and total ignorance has to stop, or these wars will continue to go on in the gaming universe. There are a few things I wanted to go over that just about many people may have neglected in this post. 3 things: 1) Nobody knows the future. Even if one system out-performs another in any tiny detail, it won't change much the way the game is played. Even if a system starts out strong, something else will come and overpower it easily. It can easily be said that with age comes experience; just look at some of the last games that are coming out on PS2 and Xbox. They have pretty good graphics. The company's have to reach the point that they can get the full potential out of a system, which is why I said earlier that PCs are better, because you can always obtain an update or a newer version. 2) Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. If you think you are right on a subject, go ahead and think so. If you find out that you made a mistake, take the correction with pride, because everybody makes mistakes sometimes, and with experiences it creates a better person. Bashing on other people just makes you look bad, and nobody likes a hater (especially if you get banned from a site for it:) 3) (and this is the opinion/info part) What I think will make the PS3 much better with either graphics or performance, while at the same time be experimental is this: BluRay. BluRay will be the definitive mark on how the games are played. Even if the Xbox 360 can support DVD-DL (Dual Layer), the max it can hold on both sides is around 18~23GB, while the start of BluRay discs can hold ~23GB on one side and one layer. This will allow the creators of games to add more graphics because they will not be constrained by small media sizes. It is in that characteristic that I think PS3 will outshine Xbox 360 and PCs for a while. Well, that's all I have to say, and I hope that people will begin to realize that gaming is for leisure activities, not the battle for the best stuff. Thank you.

PS3 better...Sony makes better games. Nuff said, specs aside, gaming is what matters and Sony has proven that their games are better. XBox fans always say HALO HALO HALO.... give me a break.... most overrated game ever. Jade Empire is more of a worthy game than Halo. You're all being fooled. You're being sucked into this lameness. Microsoft Sony..... well The Nintendo Fuckin Revolution will catch you all by surprise. It won't be the best console but it will prove that you all were idiots for doubting Nintendo. Nintendo put gaming on the map. Don't forget it.

Off topic, but I'll make a note of it. The Nintendo Revolution is designed to be backward compatible to all the games. You will be able to download the old school stuff. Other than that Nintendo has dropped out of the running as far as computational and graphical performance is concerned. They are devoting the next console rather, to be affordable, quiet, and small. It's really simple, they dropped out of the hardware race, they now are sticking to the games and cheaper price. megay, if you want to discuss this go to safety valve and the Xbox 360 v PS3 v Nintendo revolution thread.

I would love to see how nintendo will surprise us all. I don't know when it will be released. For all I know it could pull another delay like it did with the Nintendo 64 and come out 6+mos later than its first initial date. We do not even know what disk format it will support. It will be funny if you get all excited about the nintendo revolution and you realize it is just a souped up version of the Gamecube. THe only thing that I have read so far about the Revolution that maybe exciting is the fact that it may support touch screen technology and support voice reconigition technology.

Nintendo won't surprise anyone over the age of 12.

hehe

So any one else foolish enough to believe that Nintendo even has an shot?

They don't have a chance at taking the market, but a huge established fanbase, along with children and lower income brackets will make the Nintendo Revolution a success. However, in comparison, it won't pull as much money as the bigger two will. The Revolution may have backed down, but the established fan-base is too huge to just throw away. It will definitely be third, but not forgotten.

who knows what nintendo is planing it looks like theyve been strong armed the cell supposedly has twice the power of the xbox 360 however as complicated is it will be programming for seven chips its going to crash more then an achaholic piloting a helicopter standing on his head in the bermadia triangle. you should see thease screens for project gotham 3 http://www.talkxbox.com/screenshots747.html

Once the basic skills and compiler etc. for the cell is gained/understood, it'll be just like current programming to that person. How do you think people looked at just plain programming a computer when they first became personal? Probally the same way... then they get familiar with it.

@Reasons: Yes Nintendo Revolution will be third but a very distant third. I don't think that kids really will be all that excited about the Revolution as you think. Plus Sony and M$ will definitely vie for those so called "Nintendo Fanatics" with all kinds of offers. I wouldn't be suprise if you can get a Xbox 360 for about $150 if you trade in your game cube with like 15-20 games or so. Some won't take advantage of that deal but many will be tempted by such an offer. But I don't think Nintendo will have a chance because it will focus more on gaming than on overall "home entertainment" like M$ and Sony will. Can Nintendo is getting bombarded by all ends from those that are eating away at it's mobile gaming to those independent companies that are creating games that are targeted towards those tweens and adolescents. I mean can the Revolution really survive when if it doesn't support HD imaging, downloadable contents, wireless networking or online music and movie service? I don't think it even has a shot. I truly believe that Nintendo will go the way of Sega and just become a Game developer for other consoles and maybe stick with mobile gaming.

That's definitely possible, but not with this generation. It will support wi-fi and you will be able to download the original games from past systems, ultimate compatibility. That and the fan-base plus owned titles will let Nintendo live at least this one time. Don't get me wrong, I'm not buying one, but there is a need for balance and reason for both sides.

It is correct that nintendo put gaming on the map. I remember atari, coleco, and others. Nintendo was definitely not the first but they did take it to a new level of gaming and popularity that spread like wildfires. But that wont be enough to pull any kind of surprise or rabbit out of a hat when compared to what Sony and Microsoft are going to do in the next-gen. Whether there are flops or gigaflops Sony and Microsoft will remain the two dominant systems.

[REMOVED] All caps posts and whining are not appreciated - Neph.

this thread is still around? arg...i thought someone finally closed it.

No, flip closed the Official Xbox 360 v PS3 v Revolution thread, this one wasn't near as big and still amounts to petty squaballing. "generally agreed throughout the gaming world"- That doesn't make it the best graphics. The best graphics are actually found on almost every Xbox game, because it came out after the others and has the latest hardware. Detailed and pretty character models (because japanese creators are all frickin horney perverts, lets face it) are not good graphics. Resident Evil fanboy/girl community is what it amounts to. Don't use all caps locks to pretend your yelling at people, it'll get you banned. If you don't like what goes on, then leave this thread. You've done nothing but bitch, just go.

I doubt I'll add much "value" to this very humorous thread, but, I'll give it a try. I'm not even going to get into the "this is better" argument...it's pointless at the moment. However, I'd like to bring up a point that I think has been somewhat glossed over. The paradigm shift in programming that these consoles brings to the table is bigger than the last generation of consoles. As a result, the first gen of games is going to suffer immensely. What I mean by this is that in the first gen, the developers will be focused on getting libraries and tools written to help them master the intricate details of the hardware. Why does this hurt? It leaves less time to focus on the GAME itself. Now, after the first couple of games are produced and the tools and libraries are refined, then they'll focus on game quality a lot more. This happened with the current gen of consoles, but, I suspect it'll be a bigger learning curve this time. IOW, it'll take longer to get significantly better games. Don't get me wrong, there's likely to be quite a bit of improvement even in the first gen games, but, they won't have all the tricks and tools down until much later. This is just my opinion but as a non-game developer I do know the development process. They WILL master the hardware in time...and that will allow them to get back to doing what they want to do...design great games and be able to implement them.

Dont forget how long it might take to actually get used to programming the games on ps3 and xbox360, as the games will require large teams and sometimes even millions of pounds to produce them, as the consoles are hugely more complicated thean their predecessors, which might draw them to nintendo, as their console will be easy to develop for and cheap, which could mean more support and a lot more, possibly quality, games for their console, and quicker to get to grips with.

But will a large audience be drawn to the Revolution's hardware? In a multi-billion dollar industry, it's best to spend more making a sweet game and selling more copies. At $50 a piece, the profit margin for everyone selling to the end user is making a mint.

Great solution! Im getting both!

what i am trying to say is that companies might not be able to make a profit because of the large cost, no matter how much they sell the games for, and how many they sell because of the costs, therefore be forced to work for nintendo beacuse of cheaper development costs making it easier to create new games, and dont forget the unique selling points of revolution, especially the new controller if they make it right, could mean they get back on top, not forgetting the lasting appeal of their games to fans and newcomers, could mean success for nintendo and failures for sony and microsoft.

Good point, but I garuntee you they wil never be back on top. Sony has taken the market by storm and MS is an up and coming serious competitor. In other words, Nintendo wil be successful but not as much as these two. I could be wrong but it's pretty obvious that Nintendo has backed down, they said it prctically. They said they want to be the affordable system, not all the shiney hardware.

I hear a few people here and there saying Nintendo might do this and Nintendo might be the system to watch out for in the next-gen of video gaming systems. Well, lets get it straight first that no one is trying to knock Nintendo's new system by on talking of the PS3 or Xbox360's supposed sucess for the near future. It is just very unlikely that Nintendo will hold down any spot in the race of the new systems but the third spot. Just b/c they might have plans to allow play of lots of past games doesnot make up for the demand from the gamers for new exciting games that will keep us all on the edge of our seats. It will prove to be a great marketing stratedgy and will help their sales by doing so but as most others mention before it will not be enough to NOS their car to the front of the race b/c the PS3 and xbox360 have big block engines running under their hood with lots of items to detail their respected sytems in the next-gen of systems.

I'm personally tired of Sony products. After digging into the PS2 and new slim PS2, they have one consistency: garbage parts, especially the lasers (try changing one). My Sony slim DVD player can agree with that as well. Not to mention the PSP is pretty and all, but again made of cheap hardware (the LCDs are horrible). Sony laptops and PCs...a pain to maintain. Sony seems to have a tendency to get more and more proprietary. They'll probably proprietarize themselves to death. I stuck with Sony for a long time until I got an XBox. God of War has been the only game I've been interested in on the PS2 for a LONG time. Recently, there hasn't been any games that have come out that would make me want to buy a PS2 just to play it. Games that mainly made it worth it for me were the Final Fantasies and Xenosagas. GT4 is beatiful, but I can say that it's not that much fun. Glad I didn't buy it; borrowing it briefly was enough. The XBox has Ninja Gaiden Black, Halo 2, and the best version of Splinter Cell Chaos Theory. The Gamecube had Metroid Prime and Resident Evil 4. Those high-replay-value titles make purchasing the systems plenty worth it. They see more action than my PS2 ever will. Sony is doing what they did before with over-hyping. The PS2 was supposed to be amazing, and I remember being disappointed. I personally thought the Dreamcast was better, but knowing how I had a great experience with the PSX and it's titles, as with most of the gaming public, Sega wouldn't last long with its console. On a side note, I hope they redesign the look of the PS3. It looks like a section cut out of a smashed hot dog painted with silver spray.

i've been reading this thing for a lil while now...really just bored waiting on a download. there are a couple people who dont annoy me...but just about all of you seem misinformed in one way or another. it certainly helps that xbox came out after ps2, but microsoft also pumped tons of chips inside that thing with a faster processor and more memory AND a built in hard drive (look at gamecube which came out slightly later, as it is less powerful but still a good amount stronger than ps2). microsoft pushed its console much more than sony could have done a year ago (compared to dreamcast the year before ps2, ps2 is only slightly stronger...mostly the same). so not only was the technology of the ps2 outdated the day of its release, they make you buy EVERYTHING seperate...neway im going off topic here, its just i dont have much respect for sony, they are so comfortable where they are that they dont even respect us gamers. just ask yourself why ps2 and xbox have always sold at the same price, this further proves my point. onto ps3 and 360, after reading the specs...and being knowledgable in the area, you wont really see a huge difference in graphic quality between them. having more "cores" does not always mean "better" than having two processors...its how you utilize them. both companies are bosting to be better than the other, they would both be right and wrong, it all depends on the programmers as first generation games will most likely not use the full capacity of the systems. we should in fact be thanking microsoft for pushing the specs, because of this the ps3 is undoubtably better than it would have been otherwize. the memory of the ps3 for example, was once 256mb, now in responce to the 360's 512mb, sony then upgraded theirs to the same. sony is also being pushed to the market, this generation is coming at least a year early. without the xbox, the ps3 would be another ps2 technical letdown. (bet you guys didn't know oddworld for xbox was going to be on ps2 before they found out that ps2 was weaker than sony said) ok so lets say the ps3 is a bit noticable better than the xbox graphically, it SHOULD be! it comes out a year later or more, it better be stronger than something that came out the yr prior. alot happens in one year in the technology world. bottom-line: will the graphix difference (considering there is a noticable one) change anything? if we look at our current generation, the ps2 is standing above gamecube and xbox...so it could go either way, no one can know for sure and there is no point in fighting over it. my personal opinion on the matter...the ps2 is a subject of fanboys. games are another matter for both systems, but i'll get into that if need be. :::btw if u want some funfacts, i got both systems at launch, my xbox works perfectly and my second ps2 boots up "when it wants to." no way in hell i was gonna by a 3rd one::: ::edit:: oops i didn't realize there were 5 pages heh heh, just read the first...maybe i'll check if my download is done now.

i for one thing revolution definitely has a shot. i would, more than anything, like to play original games with new experiences. if they pull this off right they could totally take the gaming work by storm. its disheartening to see ppl think that it will fail before knowing anything concrete about the system, but if it doesn't support HD, not as powerful etc...if it has the games i'll buy it. its going to be at a cheaper price also, that always helps aye? why not just buy all 3 systems? they'll all have games worth getting, why miss out on any of it? (course sony's console has always had much more garbage ratio than the other systems).

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there are a couple people who dont annoy me...but just about all of you seem misinformed in one way or another

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Another day, another Xbox roady. If I'm not mistaken the official specs on PS3 were released at E3, 512MB or RAM, same spec sheet to this day. People gravitate to this topic with no experience or formal education in either computer engineering or computer science (people with a tech degree in computer programming... eh....) and just blab. I love how they take evrything advertising and web sites and companies say as, well, gospel. Everyside has it's propanganda lies and faults. The truth is seen when a personal analysis is done using spec files not found on sites like IGN of individual parts(ie the cell, the rsx(7800) Xenon and Xenos..etc) of the systems. Or when you find a professional journal of some kind of of arstechnica or andandtech. Is this a hard concept to understand?

for nephilim ^^- i dont know to answer that...yes? some of it is educated opinion, but yes opinion none-the-less...though most of what is there is fact... reasons dude- - roady eh? i base my findings on facts mr...if you look at the past facts about sony's hardware via gamespot...along with other sources if you dare look for them, the ram still says 256. it wasn't until afterwards they made it "official" and released the official specs...i might spend too much time learning about videogames, but i remember the interviews with a few ppl supporting this. - i am also not a fanboy in any way, i just dont have respect for sony after feeling fingered a few times as it is. i have all systems, love all great games in all genres. - are you trying to make it difficult to understand? i haven't had any formal education i will admit, but the greatest minds that i know are all self taught...i myself made a game when i was a mere 14 yrs old...took almost a yr to finish heh... my entire life is eating, sleeping, and shitting videogames :P...maybe i've said too much. i dont know everything, but what i dont know...i do what most ppl on this thread should do, read up da facts, read up what the pro's say about it, and come up with an educated opinion.

ok, have fun nov 22nd