Report: Several raids in Internet Piracy Crackdown

The walls upon which the prophets (LUK!) wrote, is cracking at the seams.

The truth of the matter is we can change things! If you truly believe the MPAA and RIAA have too much power then it's time to email as many people you know to stop going to movies and buying CDs. I guarantee you that if we all band together and start an email campaingn to boycott movie going it will bring the MPAA to it's knees. They will have to give in to the buying publics wishes. So what is it we want? Better movies? Cheaper prices? online downloads? My point here is make your voice heard. Tell everyone you know to stay away from the theatre. Also write the Motion Picture Assocation of America and tell them you're fed up with their their raping the public. They need to know that we, the buying public won't put up with their crap anymore and we expect better from them! I hope you join me in telling as many people as you know to boycott movie going untill we see chaanges and at the same time eamil the MPAA we are telling everyone we know that we intend to boycott untill they listen and act upon what we ask as movie buyers! Drecords

dludden: Hyperthetically you are right...... but in the real world ....... you will not reach anywhere near the amount of people that you need to tell them to stay away from the movies by email! And even if you can HOW MANY OF THEM WILL LISTEN AND OBEY OR FEEL THE SAME AS YOU AND I WHO WANT CHANGE!? Even if you go on NATIONAL TV and WORLD WIDE COVERAGE most people will not do what you ask them to do! So, to me it's a lost cause. All the yelling, screaming, emailing, or any other type of communication broadcasted around the world......WON'T CHANGE THE BIG BROTHER ROUTINE! They will find a way to squash THE VOICE OF REASON to a whisper! They have all the power ..... we don't.

The bottom line is this...The MPAA is complaing for nothing. The bootleg copies out there of Star Wars, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, and various others are no replacement of going to the movies or getting the dvd when it comes out. They are not perfect quality. No where near. They are not worth paying for and are of zero economic value. Maybe some street vendors in Asia sell them for like 2.00 us dollars but that is all they are worth. Besides, most people do not have the high speed connections needed to download theses movies in like 3 hours. The movie industry will never learn...they see a downturn in sales and say, " It must be those damn warez groups." Let go after them! Its not ...when you charge 9.75 a ticket, 4.00 for some candy at the theatre you basically freeze out the average american family from affording to go to the movies. Bottom line is this...people can get a dvd for 15.00-20.00 and have better picture quality and sit in there own home. Why go to the movies? I like the expierence of the movies.....but not as much when I have a nice HDTV at home and sorround sound. They are creating their competition. Bottom line, lower prices, or make the product better.

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They can't even tell the truth for when Star Wars 3 became available on the net.I know I saw that movie available for download a week and a half before its release date. I didn't d/l it since I don't like watching video camera recorded movies. Anyway point is I know they lied about Star Wars 3 availability so how much truth could there really be in any article like this. No offense Dela I know you type what you see. -Del

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http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/2005/June/05_crm_353.htm And first scene release of star wars was just a day or two before original theatre date, so if they were operating a site (the feds i mean) they would not have seen star wars until then. I originally hear about these raids on IRC when i got PMs from a friend about it, then was passed some information and some search warrant scans. I waited until i saw at least 1 big news source write something before I wrote what I knew - which was mercury news - yet i left in the extra details i had to a degree including name of couple of groups we knew were hit then and the nickname of a fed that operated one of the sites. Oh and Kligy..... you crazy mofo are u at it again? ;-)

The feds are getting very deep into the piracy of software and media distribution and soon our federal courst and prisons will be packed with a bunch of 18 and 19 year old kids. Minors will have their lifes ruined because of this and the feds will make examples of everyone they can get their hands on. I would never download movies or copyright programs as they are getting very harsh in this day and age of high tech. There are taps on all internet hubs, Microsoft has built in features fir the feds (as part of the federal case they settled a while back) if you run windows they can track and trace you very easy now. The best thing is if you like someting and want to use it buy it. If not don't buy it that will hurt the companies.

What companies in the Canadian Provinces were raided? How could this be? Canada's Supreme Court hasn't ruled, as yet, on the legality of downloading etc.

I don't think our prisons are going to be full of downloaders or 18-19 year old kids. They seem to be going after the top distributors of warez clans. Its like cutting the head of the chicken, they are trying to take the head out hoping the body will stop working. The problem is they can make a dent but the head will grow back. They are fighting a loosing battle.

Well, well....The entertainment industry is complaining that there is an 18 percent decline in movie attendance and this is reflected in their profits. This decline is going on even though they have stopped so many file trading sites. Could it be that the Hollywood Elite have pissed off a lot of the little people ?? Does this mean that the elite will have to get along without another Europian castle or another limosine in their garage ??? Will the Carl Reiner family be stuck with just 24 SUVs, they may have to decide between another SUV or a new Lambergini... One would think that an industry that sues little old ladies and 12 year old children would have the brains to figure out what is going on. Many of the people that I know won't go to any movie at all. There are several points to the argument that these non-attendies give..... 1....The entertainment industry wants complete control over one's entertainment. This includes what, when, and how one gets entertainment. So much for entertainment freedom. 2....The entertainment industry has and uses political clout to not only control the public's private life but also to levie taxes on blank CDs, blank DVDs, blank video tapes, and on computers which is put into a pool to be divided between the entertainment studios because these items might be used to copy their product. 3....The entertainment industry has destroyed the concept of public domain. You can be sure that they will do everything in their power to crush anyone that they find making a copy of something like the The Petrified Forest (1936) or Idiot's Delight (1939) but when it comes to filming a re-make, you can be sure that they will argue that they do not have to pay anyone because the work is in public domain, at least for their purposes...... 4....The entertainment industry say that they are trying to preserve jobs, yet when the entertainment indusry calls for a boycot of some manufacturing company or a service industry, they do not seem to care about any lost jobs then. Also, when the script girl, the sound man, the gopher and others begin to get residual payments for re-runs, then they may be listened to. All the monies, the extra taxes, 95 percent of the residuals go directly to the the studios and is paid to the studio heads. There have been many, many cases of where an actor is supposed to get residual payments instead of being paid just for the actors work. The studios then use " Creative Bookkeeping " to keep the money for themselves. 5....The greater majority of the entertainers, the Martin Sheens, the carl and Rob Reiners, the Barbara Streisands are more than willing to tell the public how to live their lives but no one dares to tell these actors, directors, producers, studio heads how to live their lives. No one tells the elite what to do... 6....The entertainment industry is devising ways to stop the recording of TV shows. This is one of the major reasons for changing to digital television. High resolution TV can be had with anologue TV. But, the logic is, if there is to be change, let's go digital because embedded data can be included to keep people from recording from the air waves. Even if a person manages to make a recording, the digital anti-copy data will keep a computer from making any copies. One person who works in the entertainment industry even suggested that embedding computer viruses or trojans into the digital video stream was possible and that he would look into the matter. This same man also belongs to a group that wants to include an income tax of the general population to be collected by the government and paid to the studios. He concludes that there is a tax on computers and video supplies already, and it would not be any different than the monies paid to farmers and various manufactering indudustries from income taxes.....

Let's see...This is the same Supreme Court that makes it legal for a movie studio by using eminent domain, to take away a group of private homes, pay either pennies on the dollar or nothing for the property so the studio can expand it's back lot, or put up bigger sound stages, or just make a bigger parking lot..in other words, the court would allow the studios to steal peoples homes for the studio's private use but allows the same studios to prosicute and sue the inventors of some technology that can possibly be used to share files... This is sort of like a bank being able to repossess ones car because the bank can resell it somewhere else at a greater profit then suing the car's manufacturer because it was used in a hold-up of the same bank...

I have a question. No this is technically according to the letter of the law, I am I allowed to let you borrow my DVD? Can I hand you a copy of my DVD and let you watch it, though you did not pay fo rit or rent it. Do I have to be in the room with you to make it OK? Hahahahahaha But seriously, what will they blame next for low movie sales or attendance?

No, you may not loan any copyrighted material unless you have are a public library. See title 17 below. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html Not books, LP's, CD-ROM's, most recipies, and you can no longer sing Happy Birthday in public. © Happy Birthday to you Happy Birthday to you Happy Birthday Dear Afterdawn Happy Birthday to you. screw all this, I'm outa here. Unscubscribed.

I love this country and what it stands for( quote from above).... what exactly is that? (crush kill destroy?)...(we are the mighty all thou bow before us...the mighty)...USA focking sux arse it is forcing all the world to have the same laws as ther great U.S ..if it was not for your ...so called lucky country...all this copyright blulls#it would go unchecked and unnoticed!!!!your county is a bully and i h@te all of your kind...

I don't think you are right about that. Even if the United Stated did not exist, I think there still would be a copyright contrevery. Its that we are in an information age, and information is easy to get. Weather you copy dvd's, cd's, or just get them off the internet, the problem is that it is easy to do. Technology just got better and the mediums of selling information like a cd are easy to copy. Basically, these companies did not bother to come out with better technologies that are harder to copy. Take the cd, that came out in the early 1980's! Its out dated...that is all there is too it

v3loc1ty-- Your comments make zero sense. Your gratuitous insults toward the FBI are puerile and ridiculous. FBI agents put their a*ses on the line everyday to protect us. Are there higher priorities than music/movie/software piracy? Of course. Just as a murder is a higher priority for your local yokels than some guy selling 20 rocks out of his back window. And if there were fewer profession pirates like this Patel, more resources could be devoted to the fight against graver threats such as Islamofascism, pedophiles, child porn and illegal alien smuggling. We're not talking about a guy who made a single copy of a movie and gave it to his friend. This isn't about letting your friend install a copy of Office 2003 on your PC. We're talking about serious, professional pirates--profiting from theft. And, yes, there is danger invovled. Theaters have had prints of Episode III stolen at gunpoint. Just as with Return of the Jedi: in my own hometown, the very theater where I first saw Jedi was robbed at gunpoint by professional highjackers, they were in and out in less than three minutes and no one was hurt. This bespeaks serious criminal organization. Mr. Patel is NOT helping those of fighting rights-destruction technology (i.e. "copy protection"), he's HELPING the greedy b*stards in Hollywood and Music Studio Land! He's giving them ammunition to back up their pretended "right" to violate our REAL rights to back up our music CDs and DVD-Videos (under both the Betamax Decision of 1984, the "Fair Use" provisions of Federal law and the American Home Recording Act). Doubtless, Patel was running ads on his warez site(s) (and studies I've done for my Masters in Criminal Law have shown that the vast majority of warez sites run ads of some kind) and thereby profiting and thereby becoming a professional pirate. I imagine if you owned the copyright to catalog of popular music you'd created you'd wanted to get paid, right? Well, shocking as it is, Metallica, Madonna, the Stones, Rush all would like to get paid for what they've done. Imagine if your bosses decided next Friday that you didn't really need your paycheck, that it would be better for him to take your pay and take his girlfriend to McDonalds. (That you're probably not make more than minimum wage is pretty clear.) Mr. Patel was doing the same thing. You SHOULD direct your real anger at the SS-RIAA and the KGBPAA who are trying to make sure we can't protect our investment in DVD and CD libraries. And, to reiterate, people like Mr. Patel are only helping Hollywood greed, giving weight to their argumetns for breaking Federal law. WAKE UP! The problem is NOT the FBI enforcing the law. It's people like Patel violating it. This country is the largest and/or most successful producer of movies (though India makes more movies than we do, their combined box office take is less than one blockbuster stateside), music and software. That would rapidly cease to be if copyrights weren't protected by law. I imagine you'd be put out if someone stole the car for which your Daddy's making the payments, right? Well, image how he'd feel if some stole the equivalent of hundreds of cars from him? Pretty pissed, I should think. Try putting yourself in the victim's shoes, just in your imagination, just for a second, and perhaps you'll get a clue.

duke8888-- There aren't legions of "kids...hafing (sic) their lives ruined..."! That's just stupid. If there are, pls source this claim. Give us URLs to newspaper stories, even legitimate advocacy gropus, (the ACLU, the EFF--do you even know who these groups are?) to back up this claim. Silence? That's right. Because you have NO proof. Is the RIAA out of control? Absolutely! Is Hollywood's greed, as exercised through its enforcer the KGBPAA, disgusting? Are both violating Federal laws? Of course. We have rights enshrined in Federal law. For every blank CD-R, mini-disc, dat or cassette tape, the American Home Recording Act adds a tax of a few pennies. This money is then paid out to record companies as compensation for consumers' being able to make private copies of music they've purchased. You want to be angry about something? Be angry about the fact the same people who are receiving the tax dollars WE pay when we buy that 50 pack of CD-Rs at Wal-Mart are also deliberately damaging CDs to stop us from making LEGAL private copies! Now THAT is an outrage! The "Fair Use" provisions of Federal law give consumers the explicit right to make personal, backup copies of DVDs and VHS tapes. This right is violated by CSS and Macrovision's rights destruction technology. THAT's something that should get you angry. And, here's a fact, since you seem to have trouble recognizing them: NO ONE has gone to jail for file-swapping or burning a copy of Eminem's latest CD and giving it to his cousin. Yes, kids (including, infamously, the twelve year old girl that appeared in the Pepsi Superbowl commercial) have been sued by the SS-RIAA. Yes, that's absurd. But there's a big difference from paying $1200 is settlement of a civil lawsuit and being thrown into a cell. Instead of jumping out ahead of the curve and creating download services BEFORE the creation of P2P software, the record industry sat on its butt and did nothing. Now they claim they have a "problem." Of course, they don't! iTunes and other download services prove that the vast majority of consumer will pay for music downloads. I do. The real problem the music industry have is S****Y music! Records sales haven't declined for 10 out of the last 12 years because of 12 year old girls copping Britney tunes of the 'Net. It's because of the pop garbage created by schlock-masters like Simon Cowell and Lou Pearlman. Studies have, in fact, shown that CD sales at record stores near college campi have INCREASED since the advent of file-sharing. Be angry about REAL problems, don't waste chat-board space with your paranoid fantasies and delusional thinking. Here's $5. Buy a clue.

DELTA-9 If you'll take your cranium out of your arse for two seconds I've got a message for you: KISS MY MOSTLY HAIRY WHITE BUTT!! By your post it's obvious you're a Brit. How sad. The only reason your little country isn't the smallest province in the Nazi empire, or singing the Soviet National Anthem everyday, is America's ability to crush and destroy BRITAIN's enemies. Not only that, we put our cities at risk nuclear annihilation to protect yours every day for FORTY years. You ungrateful little nimrod. It was the stupidity, inaction and cowardice of YOUR country's leaders (and France's) which allowed Hitler to nearly take over the world. And, just as in 1918, we had to pull your nuts out of the fire. More Americans were killed protecting England than English people were killed by Nazi bombs, rockets and cruise missiles. GET A CLUE YOU MORON! Try reading a history book. Sir John Keegan has authored many that will educate your illiterate ***. The ONLY reason you are a free man/wo--, excuse me-- boy/girl today is because Americans were willing to travel, in some cases 5000 and 6000 miles, to protect YOUR country. Your assinine comments spit on the grave of not only every American who died to save England, but upon their Royal Army comrades whom they have fought side by side in WWI, WWII, Korea, the Cold War and now against Islamofascism. Not to mention all the intelligence and satellite photos we gave you during the Falklands War! As for copyright insanity, it was BRITISH law that crushed DVD Decrypter, NOT American. See Parliament about that, bud. Give a knock on 10 Downing Street and see Mr. Blair. Why don't you take care of the problems in your homeland before vomiting your juvenile bilge on mine? Idiots like you almost make me ashamed that English blood flows in my veins. Clearly most of the best genetic material came across the Atlantic before 1776. What an ******* you are!

v3loc1ty's comments make a lot of sense, dude. The FBI really does have its priorities backwards.

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And if there were fewer profession pirates like this Patel, more resources could be devoted to the fight against graver threats such as Islamofascism, pedophiles, child porn and illegal alien smuggling.

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If they were doing things the way they were supposed to, the afore mentioned things would be given attention before much less serious things like movie copying. If rape victims had as much money as the MPAA, I bet the FBI would give them a higher priority though.

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Theaters have had prints of Episode III stolen at gunpoint. Just as with Return of the Jedi: in my own hometown, the very theater where I first saw Jedi was robbed at gunpoint by professional highjackers, they were in and out in less than three minutes and no one was hurt. This bespeaks serious criminal organization.

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Yes, but threatening someone's life isn't something that all pirates just go and do - it's a crime all on it's own. If a poor parent goes and holds up a grocery store so she can get food to feed her family, yes, she's a criminal, but eating is not a crime. Someone who threatens someone else's life should be locked up, but only a very few disturbed pirates do this.

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Well, shocking as it is, Metallica, Madonna, the Stones, Rush all would like to get paid for what they've done.

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Last time I checked they weren't on wellfare or anything. They do get paid millions for what they've done. Then, they whine when they can only afford 27 Porsches instead of 28 due to "rampant" piracy.

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Mr. Patel was doing the same thing.

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Though the RIAA would have you believe differently, copying something is not the same as stealing it. It has never been proven that sharing copyrighted materials has led to a loss in sales, especially with the lower quality of media typically found on the internet.

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The problem is NOT the FBI enforcing the law. It's people like Patel violating it.

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The problem is the law itself.

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I imagine you'd be put out if someone stole the car for which your Daddy's making the payments, right? Well, image how he'd feel if some stole the equivalent of hundreds of cars from him? Pretty pissed, I should think.

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Again, copying and stealing are not the same thing.

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Try putting yourself in the victim's shoes, just in your imagination, just for a second, and perhaps you'll get a clue.

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The movie industry is not a victim, it's an expoiter. If no one agrees with me that's fine and I'm sorry, but it just seems like the truth to me.

Wow, are you going to flame everyone in this thread?

The MPAA and many times the RIAA are the biggest hypocrits that walk the earth...Oops, there are politicians walking around too, aren't there ??? My wife just reminded me of the Hollywood hypocrisy that is continously at work... Some examples are...... Movie actor Cliff Robertson was charged by the IRS for not paying taxes on over $100,000 of earnings. He launched a private investigation that turned up a producer that was issuing checks in Robertson's and others names that neared a million dollars, co-signing the checks and cashing them for his own use. When this was brought out, the IRS dropped charges against Robertson and charged the producer with tax fraud. [ the producer's name was withheld at request of the Hollywood studios ] The studios declined to press charges for what amounted to grand larceny and embezzlement so there were never any arrests or charges against the producer. Meanwhile, the major studios blackballed Cliff Robertson for nearly ten years befor an independent studio decided to use him in a movie... James Garner, who played a detective in the TV show ' The Rockford Files ', agreed to be paid through residuals instead of by episode. He signed a contract to do a set amount of shows. He was paid a comparitive pittance during the shows run. When the time came for the residuals to come in, creative bookkeeping kept Garner from collecting a cent, yet, The Rockford Files are still showing re-runs and making money for the studios. The first Batman movie was one of the highest grossing movies at the time it was released. Yet, according to reports and although the studios made a bundle, there was little or no profit in the movie. Creative book cooking again. MPAA is a case of crooks screaming foul... I just received an e-mail from a Canadian who says the FBI was roaming around up in his area this last weekend arresting file traders. The regular citizens are getting a little ticked off suggesting that the Royal Mounted Police should be able to come down to California and issue traffic tickets or something. They feel that this is setting a dangerous president...

quote And, here's a fact, since you seem to have trouble recognizing them: NO ONE has gone to jail for file-swapping or burning a copy of Eminem's latest CD and giving it to his cousin. Yes, kids (including, infamously, the twelve year old girl that appeared in the Pepsi Superbowl commercial) have been sued by the SS-RIAA. Yes, that's absurd. But there's a big difference from paying $1200 is settlement of a civil lawsuit and being thrown into a cell. there's been people jailed for having dvd's and prosucuted for unlawfully labeling record

SO they are suing people in a civil court setting??? Its not in a federal court by the governemnt. That is bad but not as bad as I thought. Wow they are spending a hell of a lot in lawyers fees then. Its about 5,000 us to put a lawyer on retainer and sue someone in civil court. And they only get 1200-3000 per law suit. Why sue then? They are just trying to scare people away. I hate to say this even if they took down every file sharing site and even the torrent sites..people will just go old school...private ftp's lol

Pain_man. Your a perfect example of why so many countries find the American way sickening.. Im not going to go into a diatribe on why suffice to say that alot of us Aussies would just call you a drop punt..kmate?

Guys, PLease lets not fight on here. I think we all came to this site looking for solutions to problems. We are all united for are love of technology. If we are talking about America it is not a perfect country, it has done some terrible things I agree with that, but I would rather live in American then anywhere else. That is just my few point. As for copyright protection, file sharing, and anything else....the companies that sell this stuff are just behind the times. They will either discover new means of making money, or the economics of free markets will bankrupt them...bottom line economics 101

I do not buy music or movies or go to the theatre anymore. Since the RIAA and the MPAA likes to sue 12 year old girls, 85 year old women who don't even have computers, even dead people.. They are going to have to get their next Lamborgini without my help... Before anyone says that not buying their products will hurt the little guy, remember that the entertainment industry loves to call for a boycott against any industry that doesn't fit their view of how the world should be and they do not care how many "little people" get ran over in the proccess.....Besides, my life is not dependant on them, but their's is dependant on people such as me.....

I do not buy music or movies or go to the theatre anymore. Since the RIAA and the MPAA likes to sue 12 year old girls, 85 year old women who don't even have computers, even dead people.. They are going to have to get their next Lamborgini without my help... Before anyone says that not buying their products will hurt the little guy, remember that the entertainment industry loves to call for a boycott against any industry that doesn't fit their view of how the world should be and they do not care how many "little people" get ran over in the proccess.....Besides, my life is not dependant on them, but their's is dependant on people such as me.....

Hmmmmm....It posted twice, must have been worth repeating...

My thoughts exactly dufas.

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Oh and Kligy (sic) ..... you crazy mofo are u at it again? ;-)

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Hi Dela! =) Well, I'm being "good" today, but it seems that lots of others are 'at it' by the sound of the name-calling I've been reading. Oy ! I'm not going to get into this one (!) although I hope the good folks in here can tone it down a bit. I was really sad to see your preliminary NeroDigital guide just dissappear so quickly, Dela. I had wanted to compare notes, so-to-speak. I made a simply *marvelous* .mp4 nero encode today with the 30-day trial version of Nero Digital. Probably the best-looking mpeg-4 encode I've ever made. (Beats DivX handily). Perhaps I'll post some comments in the Nero forum and drop off the .log file if anyone's interested. And please guys...... Geeze Louise, today was the USA's *birthday*! (Ours was July 1st.) So, peace to you, and try to be nice to each other! -- A_K --

They are still missing the point, its actually against the law to do the below, - copying music from LP to blank tape ( blank tapes never went out of circulation ) - Copying TV movies and shows on Beta and VHS tapes, even tape to tape ( Beta and VHS tapes never went out of circulation ) - copying CD to blank tape ( as above ) - Copying radio stations and other music sources to tape ( as above ) - copying ..... ahhhh what are they doing. Lets look at the situation point blank,,,,,, I have a internet connection allowing 1000 Mb per sec download speed with 60GB per month download limit. Now would anyone seriously use that much or need that speed, so there ya go the ISP's around the world are promoting this sort of thing to happen, not to mention blank cds, they are available in supermarkets for gods sake, they are just making excuses and need a scapegoat to blame the downfall of the industry. I remember going to the movies for $5 and for another $3 bucks ya got a popcorn drink and icecream. Now ya need $40 bucks per person for the same thing. ITS TO BIG, THey will never stop it, they will make a big thing out of it but noone will look at the causes only the end result until something else comes along

A little history is needed here........ During the advent of TV, the studios fought the idea of broadcasting moving pictures for free over the air. The movie studios felt that if this new medium was going to exist, they should be in control, after all, it is the movie studios that create the visual arts.. The studios lost that battle and three major independent broadcast networks emerged. The studios started to realize that their movies could make a lot of money being broadcast over and over and over using TV. They could even get involved in 'for TV only productions' and the dust settled down for a while... Then Sony, before they were involved in movie and TV production invented the BetaMax home TV recording system. The Beta TV recording system was already in existance but it was a larger, bulky unit that the TV studios used to record TV for later broadcast and to replace a crude archival system based on a kinoscope system. [You may have seen some examples of this when something like a Johny Carson or a Milton Berle or Red Skelton aniversery special would be aired. The kinoscopes were the ultra-low rez washed-out black and white barely viewable clips of very early shows...] Anyway, when the home use BetaMax was offered for sale, the studios went ballistic. They tried to block the sale of any of these home recording machines using much of the same arguments that they are using today. The studios kept blocking the sales of BetaMaxes all the way to the US Supreme Court. The court came down with what is now called the BetaMax decision...That being that it is perfectly legal to record anything from TV as long as it is for personal use only. The ruleing was based on the idea that while pirating off of TV was posible, the Video tape recorder has a multitude of other, legitiment uses, so, the court shot the studios down and allowed video tape recording. Recording from tape to tape is considered illegal. CDs and DVDs were not invented yet..... The video recorded on beta, and soon, vhs tape was of a comparetivly low quality when put up against commercially recorded video as evidenced by when a home recorded TV is broadcast over the air. [Such as Funniest Home Video or even survailence camera video shown during news broadcasts..] There was one type of video recorder that was successfully blocked from being marketed though. I saw one in operation around 1976, it was a tape machine based on the Beta format with one huge difference. Instead of recording in low rez analoge as conventional video recorders do, this one recorded in full, overscan digital TV.. Whatever TV the broadcast signal was carrying, this recorder would capture. Playback would give a high defination picture with the same quality that a standard TV siganal would give, plus, with the flip of a switch and connecting 4 leads to a true TV monitor, the first high-definition, home video system was within reach of any consumer...but it was squashed by the studios in fear that what is happening now concerning video piracy would have happened in the 80s. It took over twenty years for digital to finaly make it to the public. Even the new digital camcorders were nearly nailed down by the studios, but, luckily, they were shot down. You can thank the computer industry for freeing up digital because the MPAA and the RIAA was still trying to keep digital away from the common person. [Read near the end of this rant..] It is not just piracy that concerns the entertainment industry, it is control. Control is what the studios had from the late 30s on through the 70s. The studios controlled where, when, and how anything that they made was seen [or heard]. They had a monopoly, They either owned outright or had controlling interest in the distibution, and viewing systems that had anything to do with their product. The studios controlled the theatres. If a theatre wasn't under their direct control, the most that theatre could show was bad 'B' movies and if a non-studio theatre did make a deal with the studio to play a first run movie, the independant theatre owner would end up not only giving most of the tickets sales profit back to the studios, the studios would take a big chunk out of the concession sales also. It paid an independant theatre to become part of the studio monopoly or go broke. In truth, during the early days, the studios operated in many ways similar to the old Mafia. The Bell Telephone System was broken up into smaller chunks for the exact same thing that the studios were doing. The difference was having movie stars under contract. How does this differ you ask.... Politicians, even today, are as star struck as any teen age girl. [Sissie Spasec testifying before congress about farming in America ?? The closest she has been to a farm is on a movie set..] If you have a huge movie star under contract, you can have he/she lobby for the studios just by going to Washington and being themselves. If a movie star declined, they didn't work. If they kept on declining, they never worked again even after their contract was ended with a particular studio. The call would go out to blackball the actor. The hold outs never workrd again until the studio system was broke in the 60s.. This video pirate/file trading whine is more about power, control, and the possibility of adding more money to the studio's coffers than it is about the studios being wronged. Video piracy and file trading has been going on for years. I first got onto the internet in 1986 and there was movie files available then. Around 1992, it was about the same level that it is now. Why all the yelling by the studios at this late date ?? The answer is digital.. TV is going to go full digital soon. Theatres are showing digital movies now. The studios are laying ground work for the conversion from analogue to digital. If the studios didn't do a thing, the recording of digatal video [and music] would be as simple as hitting a record button and you would save full broadcast quality video/audio ready to be saved on a DVD disk, the conversion to DVD easily made by the digital recording device. The studios have planned with the help of the TV [and possibly the radio] broadcast networks of embedding code into the digital video in order to squelch copying or at the very least, preventing copying to a disk.. I worked with the studios for nearly twenty years, lived in Culver City, home of MGM, Desilu, nineteen blocks from 20th Century Fox, and various other small studios and support shops. I worked with the special effects people making props for the movies. The studios and many of the people that work there are the most un-ethical, hypocritical people that one is ever to meet. I have more respect for a sreet gang than many I have met in the movie industry. One knows what a street gang is about, one never knows with the hollywood crowd....

wow that was an amazing history thank you for your time to share all that with us. The good news is that the digital broadcast flag you refer to has been struck down by the supreme court in its present form...so maybe that will never come to pass!

Thankyou dufas that was well stated. It gave me an insight into the dubious nature of these studio/film executives characters and let people know that these people are all about control. Free the technology!

Well I still have 2 ampeg beta machines and I dont like what I see happening with the ability to have copies of movies and cd's. What can we do to stop the studios from getting away with their control???

The entertainment industry needs us more than we need them....

i agree with dufas .....the control is all they want and it isn't fair to people that spend the time and money for recording equipment.

Exactly. If they focused half as much on making good movies as they do on stopping piracy, they'd make way more money, simply because more people would go to a movie worth seeing - and all without lawsuits too!

I think that the movie industry is running out of either talented writers or ideas. Has anyone noticed that for the last couple of years, the majority of movies has been poor rehashes of older movies or they have based on old comic books. After seeing War of the Worlds 2005, my wife dug out an old VHS tape of War of the Worlds 1953. Other than the CGI special effects, the 1953 version was more enjoyable. The older version was made when movie makers had to work to make a special effect believable. In my estimation, the old timers succeeded with this one. I realize that this is subjective but the story line was more cohesive than the newer version in that it followed a logical progression. The 2005 movie had a few holes in the plot that the older version filled leaving no questions in the viewer's mind. Although the '53 movie was fluff by today's standard, it carried the author's message straight through to the end. There was no political correctness, just a striaght forward, simple story telling experiance. Many of the other re-makes that I have seen gave a similar experience. It seems that the studios are trying to make up with computer graphics for what is lacking in good, old time story telling. It used to be that for every ten movies made, they had one or two duds..I think that it is the other way around now. They will release ten or twelve movies and only have one or two that is worth viewing. It used to be that the "B" movies had this ratio of good to bad...Now, those old "B" movies look as good or better than today's major releases. To play the devil's advicate, I would be un-fair if I didn't include the drain that 350 plus TV channels have made on the Hollywood talent pool. Many good writers are now on contract, being well paid all year around by one TV channel or another instead of being paid for one or two jobs by the studios. Remember, one cannot trust the studios to pay residuals...creative book keeping works overtime...

It all goes back to greed. The instant the movie industry gave more attention to money than quality films is when this started. No matter what else they do, if they don't start focusing on quality again, they will lose - even if there's no piracy at all. People will eventually just lose interest. I used to love going to the movies. Now, I hardly ever see previews to anything that looks worth watching, let alone worth paying to go to a theater and see. You're definitely right about them milking the old ideas for all they're worth. I mean, just in the past few years - Spiderman, Daredevil, (wasn't Elektra an old comic too?), Fantastic 4, War of the Worlds, Hulk, X-Men, The Avengers, even more Batman, and I'm sure there's more that I can't remember right now. And they wonder why people aren't going to the movies as often? Because they've already seen them! Sure they get a visual makeover and some profanity tossed into the script - but there's nothing really new to be gained from watching them. I'm no writer, but IMO I could write a more original and entertaining script than almost every movie that's come out in the past three years (of course, there are a few exceptions ;)). They just keep cranking out crap and wondering why nobody wants to see it.

If they spent half as much time, effort and money on the quality of these films as they do on hyping them up to the skies, ...... These aren't "movies". This isn't "entertainment". This is "Product". These are commodities. They have all the excitement of a 100-pound bag of cement. Forget "intellectual property". This is programmed propaganda. Greed. That's what it's all about. Pure and simple. Unsatiable, unrepentant, bottomless greed. Holywood has taken the concept of HYPE to a whole new high. (Low?) Objective? To make as much money as humanly possible in the shortest possible time to make room for the next toilet-load of hype, coming to a video-store-near-you. Screw quality. It's a question of how well the hype can Push the Product. We're all lemmings; stooges; money-carrying drones slogging our way to the video stores like well-programned zombies..... Hollywood's mindset: "Joe public wouldn't know a quality film if it came up and bit them in the ass. They have to be told what it is they want to see." (I could go on......)

I would like to add a note for those of you that are still avid movie goers and i should probably include those who were so in the past. This is what I call "intelligent Movie Viewing.." Lately, groups have called for the studios not to have actors smoke cigarettes or use any tobacco products unless it is absolutely neccesary to the movie's plot line. This is done to keep the subliminal message out of the movie that it is acceptable or cool or some other reason to smoke. This is just one example of what psychoiologists and sociiallogists deem as the power of the moving picture. Another would be that all the good guys drive Ford products and the bad guys drive foriegn cars subliminally sending the message that only American products are good, plus, Ford most likely paid and supplied the cars making the movie a two hour advertisement for Ford Corp. Many feel that this is a new phenomenon. Actually, this concept has been around for nearly as long as there has been movies. Many call it propaganda. The Germans were the first to use movies on a large scale to manipulate public opinion during the late 30s. Hitler used the movies during World War II to effectively rally the German people against whatever he wanted at the time. The US government did the same in order to unite the population during the same war. The above are just examples of the past use of movies to sway public opinion. The real insidious use started in the mid 1940s and has continued to today. While the public sits in a theatre or in front of their TV set to be entertained by some comedy or block buster drama, they are being subtly nudged towards the studio's and Hollywood's way of political thinking or some corporation is influencing your need for some product ... Susan Sarandon was once asked why she felt the need to become an actress. Her reply was "...to make society better.." In other words, she became an actress to mold people to her point of view and has excepted and changed many scripts that allows her to push her views. Martin Sheen has the same asperations and has voiced the same many times. Although, he has been very silent lately. His last tirade nearly cost him his TV show because the public's backlash against him and viewership dropped so low, show was almost cancelled. His comment on the situation was that he should have the right to voice his opinion with harming his carreer, which tells me that he should have the power to influence how your life is lived but no one should be able to touch his. In the early 50s, there was a movie called "The Wild Bunch"..It was about an outlaw motorcycle gang that took over and terrorized a small town. The actors in this movie raped, stole, murdered and ravished much of town. In the real world, there have been motorcycle clubs since the 30s. It wasn't until this movie that they were renamed gangs. It also wasn't until this movie that a small town [in Mexico] was really terrorized by a group of motorcyclists. In the 90s, a movie had a group of older teenagers daring each other to lay on the yellow center line of a busy highway. A short time after this movie played, several teens were killed, ran over by automobiles while trying to replicate this feat in real life. Another movie was called "Hot Rods From Hell". It portrayed modified automobile owners in much the same way as the Wild Bunch movie. The actors used their modified cars as weapons and generaly destroyed everything in sight. The movie caused a political uproar and eventually laws were passed against such cars until that today, it is against the law in most states to license a modified automobile for the road. What the movie didn't say and the politicians wouldn't listen to was that after spending huge amounts of money and hour after hour of back breaking work, very few modified car builders would drive their cars as depicted in the movie. That would be like constucting a custom built, one of a kind home and then throwing gasoline on it and striking a match to it...All of the people that I knew drove and took care of their automobile creations like they were precious jewels. Some wouldn't even allow shoes to be worn while riding in the vehicle.. I list these last three instances because the studios and actors will take credit when their art raises the concousness about some pet subject or effects the outcome of a political fight but will quickly deny any responsability if their mmovie's influence on a person results in a negative act. After all, it is just a movie, they will say......... The movies have a tremendous power to both entertain and educate. Just as with the entertainment function, one has to be aware of what education is being delivered. Just as the renaming of manhole covers to something like personal orifices is supposed to subtly enhance womens selve esteme, the movies descreetly deliver messages that one should be aware of. People should use their own powers of reasoning to come to a conclusion instead of being led around by the nose by people whose main reason for doing anything is for money and power. I do not care if you are a Democrat, Republican, or any one of the multitude of political entities that exsist today, the point that I would like to get across is that one should be able to come to their own conclusions about a particular subject. One should be able to base their position on what one thinks, not on what some group has subliminally planted in one's mind over and over and over.

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Good Heavens, dufas, you're scaring the s--t out of me!! (But I find it quite hard to argue with your words....) I fear everything you say is true.) You pose a great deal for me to think about. After reading more of your posts (above), I can see that you have had first-hand experience in this area, and I do respect your opinions. WheW! Rather than become paranoid, I simply suggest that folks use their own best judgement - common sense, if there is enough of it, may bail us out yet. In other words, if it looks like s--t, and smells like s--t, then yep, that's most likely _exactly_ what it is. Or even worse! In my own case - if I'm subjected to (bombarded with) enough corporate bullshit -- my survival instincts kick-in, and I begin to rebel. The hairs on the back of my neck start to bristle. I begin to question/evaluate/challenge *everything* until I know more. And I may strike back if I have to. Thank you for making me think! (I try not to think too much - it always gets me into trouble). :=)

My postings was not meant to scare or produce paranoia in anyone. I'm just an old fart that is near his end time and saddened to witness the underhanded manipulations by the media, the studios, and the Hollywood types. I have watched people's freedom's slowly slip away and those who are losing those freedom's don't even realize that it is happening. Many of them have been, for lack of a better word, programmed, by the media over the years. Many times the loss is not felt because what is being lost is not an interest or included in the life style of a number of people. If a particular thing or action does not effect one personally, the odds are that person will have little interest in what happens. The other people that don't care are the elitists that feel they are above the fray, they are better than the common person. The Hollywood crowd and the mass media are the worst offenders. The saddness is that in reality, when anyone loses another freedom, we all lose. There are two types of freedoms battling for supremicy in today's world. As with all things, there are reasonable limits. One cannot condone murder, yet, a reasonable person would allow one to protect one's own life when threatened. Even this concept was abandoned for a while. People were imprisoned for protecting their own lives. The first freedom is the most difficult for many people, especially the Hollywood crowd. This is the "Freedom to........." This means that you are free to live your life as you see fit. You have the right to earn as much money as you and your skills are able. You have the freedom to seek your own happiness. A simple example might be, if you want to have a woodworking shop in your garage, you are free to do so. Now comes the difficult part....You have to take the responsibility not to overtly annoy your neighbors, not to create an eyesore, in general, compromise with those around you. I, as your neighbor, have a responsibility to allow you to live your life as you see fit. I accept that there will be noises and smells eminating from your garage at times and get on with my own life. I have to accept this responsibility because you have to do the same for me and my life... The other freedom is the "Freedom from......." This is the type of freedom that has gained a strong foothold as of late. This is the freedom that the Hollywood types continuously push. Using the above woodworking in your garage as an example, I, as your neighbor, want the "freedom from...." the noise coming from your garage, in fact, I want the "freedom from..." you even working in your garage at all. So, I'll push politicians, give the politicians money, advertise while making all sorts of 'logical' rationalizations about why my freedom is worth more than yours, if I am a media type, every story, every movie will carry a negative message about allowing people to work in their own garages until, finally, the general population has been conditioned to accept the 'fact' that it is in the name of freedom that no one should be allowed to work in their own garage. Only by now, it not only means a woodshop cannot be in a person's garage, it includes every thing. No one is to be allowed to work in their own garage on anything whatsoever.. The politicians take polls, the pre-conditioned public has answered in the poll against work spaces in people's private garages and laws are now being passed. No one is allowed to work in their garage under penalty of law. Every time a "Freedom from....." idea is launched, people on the other end lose another one of their freedoms...Soon, there is not going to be many freedoms left to lose... This has actually happened in some communities, but the point of this probably poor example is to more graphicly show how the media, the studios, the Hollywood types have maniputated people into another way of thinking. Through all of this procedure, the elitist's do not think that any of this should apply to them. One example could be Carl Reiner. He is against SUVs with a passion. He has stated that he beleives that SUVs should be confiscated from the general public. Yet, he owns a fleet of 24 large SUVs. He has stated publicly that his owning of SUVs is different from the general public own such a vehicle.. While this does not seem to concern the copying of movies or TV, I, during these rants, was trying to show how things are connected. how, many times, there is more than what meets the eye going on before you. Do not accept anything for it's face value. I am sure that you have met many people that say one thing, but mean another. This is the same thing only on a grander scale. Next time that you listen to a news broadcast, a song, watch a movie, pay attention to the way the words are linked together, how things were expressed. even the tone of voice has an effect. Was a person that is normally called by their title referred to as just MR or MRS, the subtle message is that this person should be ignored or not voted for or is guilty of something when they are not ?? Does an actor portraying a specific person or representing an idea placed in unflattering light or dressed subtly different, again, the object is to portray this person in a negative way even though the part the actor is playing is a positive one ?? Sometimes, the complete story line or report is saying one thing while portraying another. How many times have you gone to a movie and felt that the story told when applied against the images displayed was slightly confusing. For example, was the movie 'Saving Private Ryan' realy about the bravery of one group of soldiers, or was it a story about the stupidity of war, The Pentagon, the Government, or was it just another interesting tale to be told, or was it all of the above ? Sorry about another rant, but I have listened to producers, directors, and writers discuss how they are going to add the subtle nuaunces to get the end effect that they are looking for. I, myself, must plead guilty in sometimes aiding and abedding these people. I would build props that they would order that assisted in getting their propaganda across to an audience. At the time, I did not realize the full impact of what I was doing. I really thought it was all about the story. Eventually, I heard many of these people come right out and express privately what the desired result was to be. So, in a smaller way, I am just as guilty as the rest...........

Dufas, I loved your comments. Keep ranting as you say. You make some incredibly valuable points.

I am amazed that someone will actually listen to what an old fart has to say....Thank you.....

Rant on dufas. Great stuff!

I don't know what more I can say and stay reasonably close to the Hollywood subject. I do know that most things are connected, many times in unsuspected ways. One can trace the media's infuence into the public's perseption of the Iraqi war, the food we eat, the vehicles we buy, the presidents that we elect... The media lied about the Vietnam war, covered up a multitude of sins by their favorite politicians, plus hundreds of other things that forms the present public concousness. An off-topic example would be.... Have you ever heard the news media or Hollywood media speak about one of their favorite politicians, Senator Byrd in a negative way ?? Yet, Senator Byrd is a card carrying member of the KLU KLUX KLAN. He is one of the Grand Dragons, heading his particular chapter of the Klan. He lobbyed in congress using the tactic known as the filibuster to block Black civil rights, integration, and the right for Blacks to vote. He belonged to a group of politicians known as the Dixiecrats was in favour of keeping the status quo as far as the old south was concerned. Hollywood says that they are for civil rights for everyone and loudly denounce anyone that stands in the way of said rights, but, the Hollywood elite and the media never mention Senator Byrd's affiliation to the clan and in fact, outright lied in saying it was the conservative politicians that were blocking civil rights. In fact, it was a Republican administration under Pres. Dwight Eisenhower that pushed through the civil rights legislation and the Dixiecrats, who ran the southern states at the time blocked institution of the civil rights laws. The opposite has been told so many times by the media that no one believes the truth anymore..It finaly fell to a Democrat, Pres. Lyndon Johnson to send the troops into the south and force the obeying of the law.... Another media stance is Hollywood's connection with politicians would effect copyrights and patents for new inventions which in turn would cause you, as a consumer, to be denied usefull and important new products and cause people not to pursue their inventions which in turn causes new technology and jobs not to be created. These media connection postings can cause messages being posted that although connected in many ways to the original theme of the media and control of piracy, the individual subject matter of these posts would seem way off topic to most people. These topics would challange many people's belief systems and flameing would become the norm in here. Truth, many times has a way of destroying people's comfort zone...

I just remembered a media hoax that is non-political yet caused a lot of harm to many people. Around ten years ago, before the "Let's stamp out SUVs" movement, the news media and Hollywood's aim was to get rid of pickup trucks. The furver didn't reach as high as the anti-SUV roar did, but it was there... Out of the millions of pickups on the roads and hundreds of accidents that happen, there was 4 Chevy Silverados involved in collisions where the pickups were broad-sided and caught fire. It was determined that the gas tank split and ignited. NBC news ran a story about the trucks. It was not the usual 1 to 2 minute news blip that usually happens, but a full, in depth story complete with graphics, a Chevy truck exploding on screen, and followed by a searing opinion piece. This was repeated over and over at every news break for several days. Most people fell for the news story hook, line, and sinker. Chevy truck sales dropped. General Motors stock dropped. There was talk of closing several Chevy truck assembly plants. People may lose their jobs. Meanwhile, Chevy was crashing their trucks at a rapid pace trying to replicate what was shown on the NBC news broadcast. They couldn't get the trucks to catch fire. While this was going on, a government safety agency was doing the same thing, only the agency was determined to get the trucks off the streets. The agency couldn't get the trucks to ignite either. General Motors finally went to NBC and asked them to prove their claims. After some haggling and threats by General Motors to pull all the advertising from all NBC stations and affiliats, NBC came clean and admitted that they tried several times to get the trucks to catch fire but failed, so NBC put dynamite under the truck that was filmed and rigged it to explode when the other car broadside it... NBC only admitted what they did after General Motors threatened to pull millions of dollars from NBC. NBC never admitted to wrong doing, they explained that they did this for dramatic effect. It was still a lie. It was very, very far from ethical news reporting, in fact it was a staged editorial done to effect the slant that the media wanted the public to see. If they were going to tell the truth, NBC would have stated that they done experiments with truck crashes and determined that Chevy trucks were as safe in this regard as one could expect them to be... So, who is the bad guy here..NBC or General Motors ??? Real and honest news would allow you to decide. Slanted news directs you to the conclusion that the media wants you to have. It still is about power and control.....

Well, I guess I went and stepped on everybody's comfort zone...

Good stuff dufas. Wasn't there a thing not too long ago, too, when the movie Babe came out, didn't pork sales go way down? What's even more disturbing than the media and movie industry's subtle manipulation of peoples' opinions is the fact that most people are completely ignorant of it. Kinda reminds me of the emperor on Star Wars slowly manipulating the senate into giving him complete control of the galaxy and they all believing it was the for the best "with thunderous applause". Oh crap - there goes a movie influencing my opinion! :D Honestly, though, IMO the two aren't all that dissimilar.

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Well, I guess I went and stepped on everybody's comfort zone...

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No, no at all, dufas. I think it's just that we all know how corrupt big business is. How self-serving they are. Bold-faced lies mean nothing in the real-world when the payoff is unlimited money and power. You can be bought and sold. Hell, you are bought and sold. In our hearts, I think we all know this even if we don't consciously think about it every day. Life is too short. We have more immediate needs to attend to. (Like day-to-day survival - rent, food.....) When congress can be bought with Hollywood's spare change, what chance do you and I have? We have to move on. P.S. : Do you really think of yourself an "old fart" on his "way out the door" so-to-speak ??? Pish-Posh! Hell, I'm 52 and _still_ can drink most folks under he table! I think of you as a sweet 'ol Gandalf (Lord Of The Rings); a wizened old gentleman with more life experiences than most young whipper-snappers today can shake a stick at!!! :=) [This is a depiction of dufas.....(er).... Gandalf fending off the Evil Hollywood Monster]:

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P.S. : Do you really think of yourself an "old fart" on his "way out the door" so-to-speak ???

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Off topic..... It's all a point of view and at risk of sounding like I am whining..... I am only 63, but after a motorcycle accident at around 110 MPH, another accident, industrial this time where a load of steel I-beams was hit by an overhead crane and I happened to be in the way, a stroke or something [ the doctors are still arguing ] where, for a short period of time, I couldn't walk, I had to crawl around the floor to get from place to place. I can walk now, but I look like a drunken sailer... My short term memory is shot and I am dizzy most of the time. To type out one of these messages takes around a half an hour because I have to figure out which letter to use on the keyboard which in turn, sometimes screws up my spelling...These are some of the dis-advantages.. The advantages are that instead of being so wrapped up in my own life, I have the luxury of setting back and seeing what is going on around me, I have the time to analyse what is really going on or what is said. Before, life was going by so fast that when I heard or saw something,and unleess it was blatently displayed right in front of me, I, like so many others, just accepted things at face value.. I am not feeling sorry for my self, I have seen many people who are in much worse shape than I, but, along those lines, I have also seen a lot of people who think they are in worse shape than anyone else when, in, reality, they have it made... Not long ago, it was announced that we must pour millions of dollars to help the homeless, This was a Martin Sheen project, and it is good to help others in need. Sheen and the group he is in bed with announced that 42 homeless people die every second and that this has been going on for years. I used to take a statment like that at it's face value and help out when I could. Now, with the time to stop and think, I realized that using the numbers that the Sheen group and the government used, every person in the America would be dead in 4.53 years using the population figures at the time of the group's announcement... Not one of the brain trusts that different government agencies or private corporations either picked up on this or questioned the stated figures..And what happened to the donated monies, there are still homeless on the streets...... Another quicky might be that swoopy new car that you can buy.. The dealer or the manufacturer will give you a $5,000 rebate if you rush out right now and buy their car. Unless you pay cold cash for that new set of wheels, that rebate is nothing more than a loan. They are selling you a $25,000 car. You sign a contract for $25,000 plus taxes and license fees. You will recieve a check for $5.000. You pay back $25,000 plus interest. It's a loan, not a rebate. The real screwing comes when the car dealer talks some 'dufas' [he he] into using the rebate for a downpayment. Now, the buyer has not only mistaken a loan for a rebate, but has turned around and gave the money back to the very people that scammed him in the first place. They loan someone $5,000 and then that someone hands the money back to the people that loaned him the money in the first place. The car dealer just made an extra $5,000 on the car deal. The buyer thinks that this cut the price of the car down to $20,000, but he signed a note to repay $25,000.. There are furniture, large appliance companies, plus many other businesses that do the same thing. An $800 refridgerator ends up costing around $1,000....A new living room suite costing $1,500 ends up going out the door for $2,000................ So, some times it is good to take the time to smell the roses..

That's why we small joe schmoes must look out for each other. We try, at least in here, in regards to video issues, to help each other from being taken to the cleaners. Knowledge is power, and you can find a lot of knowledge in here if you're wise enough to heed it. (Being selective helps a bit too). We have a cross-section of ALL ages, backgrounds, philosphies, abilities, egos and hopes in these pages. Enjoy yourself, dufus. Type slowly, think lots, and if you can, don't let us get sucked into the clutches of those who would control us for personal gain. (Boys oh boys! That sure sounds like a lotta cornball hookey, don't it?) <But it's still true.....> :)

RE: MAN_ pain page 2 DELTA-9 If you'll take your cranium out of your arse for two seconds I've got a message for you: KISS MY MOSTLY HAIRY WHITE BUTT!! By your post it's obvious you're a Brit. How sad. The only reason your little country isn't the smallest province in the Nazi empire, or singing the Soviet National Anthem everyday, is America's ability to crush and destroy BRITAIN's enemies. Not only that, we put our cities at risk nuclear annihilation to protect yours every day for FORTY years. You ungrateful little nimrod. It was the stupidity, inaction and cowardice of YOUR country's leaders (and France's) which allowed Hitler to nearly take over the world. And, just as in 1918, we had to pull your nuts out of the fire. More Americans were killed protecting England than English people were killed by Nazi bombs, rockets and cruise missiles. GET A CLUE YOU MORON! Try reading a history book. Sir John Keegan has authored many that will educate your illiterate ***. The ONLY reason you are a free man/wo--, excuse me-- boy/girl today is because Americans were willing to travel, in some cases 5000 and 6000 miles, to protect YOUR country. Your assinine comments spit on the grave of not only every American who died to save England, but upon their Royal Army comrades whom they have fought side by side in WWI, WWII, Korea, the Cold War and now against Islamofascism. Not to mention all the intelligence and satellite photos we gave you during the Falklands War! As for copyright insanity, it was BRITISH law that crushed DVD Decrypter, NOT American. See Parliament about that, bud. Give a knock on 10 Downing Street and see Mr. Blair. Why don't you take care of the problems in your homeland before vomiting your juvenile bilge on mine? Idiots like you almost make me ashamed that English blood flows in my veins. Clearly most of the best genetic material came across the Atlantic before 1776. What an ******* you are! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> By your post it's obvious you're a Brit... well no i am not a brit i am australian funny you shoud mention NAZI's coz i am from solid german desent and proud of it i love my blue eyes pure aryan blood... and you focking americans can kiss my sour crout smelling ass. we shoud have won the war and ruled supreme where all files are for " the mother land" to be shared free for all. even bully americans, with there pay off you scratch my back ill scratch yours diplomacy, i spit in you face white trash traler park red necks.military wanna be's you ar not power full you cant even stop a few arabs , from turning you in to the biggest fools in history... wanna impress me with you great military power go find osama... you make me laugh i am glad my great grand father was a good shot. pitty he is not still around.