Sony announces new PS3 launch date

Are you f-ing kidding me?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Screw Sony for giving Europe the big, fat SHAFT!

honestly thats it.. i aint gonna buy one of there systems for many years to come

Hellllllooooooooooo, Xbox 360!

I'd like to be able to say that I didn't see this coming, but... Oh well, we get to wait another 6 months (Aussie here). That and Steve Irwin dying just up the road (I live in Cairns). I don't know how much more I can take in such a short time. :(

what to buy with the money i have saved??? me thinks a 360 @ £200 for xmas. anyone think that this will effect the launch price?

Well that's ruined any plans for a potential Xbox360 price drop until next year now! (even though it was unlikely) I wonder if it will slip even more so, like to June or July as there will probaby be shortages in Japan and North America! Nintendo...this is your time to shine!

OMFG!!!, now im really buying an xbox 360! PS3 is just putting nails in its own coffin....

FFS, i have been counting down the month's till launch. I straight away checked other gaming sites. Man i hope someone was misinformed!, coz noone else had it as news. Otherwise what do i do.... buy a 360 then when the PS3 comes out regret buying it?. Or maybe get the WoW Xpansion and try and speed the time up between now and March. I hate being in New Zealand and getting everything second to last(before Oz ;p) DAMN YOU SONY!!!!!

Well mayb for me cause i live in australia i will get the Xbox and then save up for the ps3 and then get that next yr. I doubt it though i have lost my urge for console gaming. The only reason I got a ps2 was because my sister broke my ps1. Otherwise i wouldnt have got the ps2.

Name one console Sony has launched in a timely manner in Europe. You can't. They don't value the EU market, they don't value Europeans as customers.

"Good thing's comes to those who wait!" i'd wait if i were you.

Look at the bright side: When the PS3 launches in Europe and Australia next year the initial bugs would have been worked out already. They will be getting in essence a second generation machine.

I can't wait for this.

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dblbogey7
Look at the bright side: When the PS3 launches in Europe and Australia next year the initial bugs would have been worked out already. They will be getting in essence a second generation machine.

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F*ck, Indian here man, delayed by 4 months!! urghh and Im sure that the 1st batch of hardware released will have lots glitches man...

nothing is concreate though. id wait see if this sort of thing pops up on other websites aswell. having never intended on buying a PS3 i ant got much too moan about! i was however eagly awaiting a price drop on the XBOX 360 which if this news is true, wil not happen!

ok time to take back my money now, why is it that europe is always on the "to screw" list? fuck sony.

Dela, you should be used to it by now mate, we always get screwed, because the market revolves around the US. When it eventually does come out, guess what? We'll have to pay more for it than the yanks do!

Plus, no "lite" version of the console here in Britain either. Screw 'em.

I hope in turn this and everything else leads to the failure of the PS3 to be honest, i don't see why they concentrate on America and not Europe! Same happened with the PSP and to be honest they aren't partically popular here.

its not the wrong new check out here... www.scee.presscentre.com also i live in North America so i don't have to wait. but come on now.. reall who is getting a ps3 right at release date... everyone knows if u wait a day after it will be all gone...

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PlayStation 3 will debut in Japan November 11th and in North America November 17th and will ship 6 million units globally before the end of the fiscal year in 2007

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the company has promised 2 million units until the end of 2006

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PS3 is just putting nails in its own coffin

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was a fan of sony, was gona buy the ps3... but i got ma xbox 360 so sony can STFU!!!

nintendo wii!!!!!!!!!!!!!

oh sorry you guys was just thinking out loud.I love my ps2 but this is horrible news and I may opt for the wii(i already have an xbox 360).

Someones pi$$ed off:

http://www.angry-gamer.net/pmwiki.php/Feature/Dear_Sony_Its_Over

ha hah haha ahah - This has made my day. Come on Bill Gates show us your money. start advertising the XBOX 360. Hey Sony Lovers! You do relise that it will still cost £425 + £50 a game when it comes out in March. then by xmas they will drop it by £50 and by then Playstation 4 will be announced. Dont put up with it show Sony how unhappy you our go by a Xbox 360. Sony WILL NEED TO WIN YOU BACK! Only way to do that is by making it cheaper! Why wait another 4 months when you can go out today and get a console with loads of cool games (DEAD RISING, PGR 3, Oblivion ect ect)

i dont know why ppl are all worried and pissed at sony for delaying the ps3....u know all the new ps3's are gonna have bugs or recalls on something like microsoft and looks like sony is having problems with so many things tryin to get ps3 shipped out and put together that it will probably be their down fall seeing as xmas time was the time to rake in the dough.....well good luck i'm buyin a 360 and i'll wait a year to buy a ps3 seeing as 360 has alot more titles i'd prefer to play even tho i'ma die hard final fantasy player......

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i dont know why ppl are all worried and pissed at sony for delaying the ps3....u know all the new ps3's are gonna have bugs or recalls on something like microsoft and looks like sony is having problems with so many things tryin to get ps3 shipped out and put together that it will probably be their down fall seeing as xmas time was the time to rake in the dough.....well good luck i'm buyin a 360 and i'll wait a year to buy a ps3 seeing as 360 has alot more titles i'd prefer to play even tho i'ma die hard final fantasy player......

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NOOOOO!!!! I saw this 10 minutes ago on BBC and i was so pissed off,as i fall under Australasia.....dam it!!! you north americans are going to get all the newest ps2 ages before us,this is sooo unfair!!!

oops,suposed to say PS3 games...

Damn man, that sucks. Even though I live in North America, so far it seems like things will just get worse. I wasn't planning to get a PS3 until recently, but just to hear this news of Sony's Progress with the PS3 is just a big let down. I wouldn't be surprised of Call Backs or a lot of glitches at this rate. And especially at the PS3s current price not a lot of people will be able to buy it. I remember when I bought my PS2 just after buying all the stuff from Controlers to Games I ended up spending $600, if buying the PS3 alone and then buying controlers and games I'd probably end up spending $800-$900. Even though I too am a Die Hard Final Fantasy player, this just makes me think about getting the 360 instead and wait a year or two before buying a PS3.

HAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! I live in the U.S!!!!...I am such a lucky Basta*d!!!!!!!!!

I don't blame people at the end of the stick for being upset for the delay. You all wine like it is the US to blame and that is far from true. Japan gets preference always and that's partially due to the largest markets which are supplied first, unless the supply is larger than the demand. It would be nice if they could even out the distribution amongst the world but that also doesn't work well. Last I heard North America was set for Jan 07 so we are 2 months ahead of the PAL region but you know that will slide knowing Sony. It's amazing that MS can put out two good machines and PS3 is still not here yet. More and more Sony sucks... How about another Root Kit Sony lets really p@ss people off. I feel for all of you who are waiting to play the PS2 games you can only get for that consol on the new one, this has to be extremely frustrating for you.

PS3 isn't really that great because all the best games are out on the 360!! (Halo 3 and lots of other sequals to games). I would go with the 360. xbox:300$ 400$ ps3:600$ 700$. I mean so what ya get the next gen dvd player

ouch! The only good thing about this is there will be more Wii demand on Ebay during the holidays, which is what my pocketbook is counting on.

ah gah gah gah gah gah giggity giggity usa usa usa! weese is getting ps3 still on time. yeaa ya

@ big beef: well you cant judge the ps3 by its games when it hasnt even been released. And the xbox 360 doesnt have any games yet stand out. and next time try to post the correct info becauase the ps2 is priced at $500 and $600 and 700...

As an citizen of the US, I'd just as soon see Sony let Europe have them first, I honestly wouldn't be heartbroken. In the last year, Sony has made so many errors, screw-ups, and even blatantly insulted their customer base outright. I have no interest in buying this system, because of these things. Even big business magazines are indicating that Sony's recent actions are indicative of a failing company, their president of the US division was recently incuded in a list of the top ten people who no longer matter. There recent year's foul ups are becoming too numerous to list, and it's not a good sign for them, things like their late start manufacturing; their recent racist advertisements in the UK (Followed by a spokesperson actually publicly saying they couldn't understand why people were offended), saying that 'because of their name' people would buy their system 'even if they didn't release a single game'. Those are only a few mentionables. I don't want a console from a company doing things like this, which is really odd for me to say, because I generally take pride in owning them all; but when a big company sinks to a level where they start literally insulting the intelligence of their customers, I have no interest in giving them any of my money. Why would I? So, by all means, if someone else wants them, let them have the systems. But the majority of gamers that *I* have spoken with (And forego any of your cries of how this is not a mass opinion, because I have emphasized that this is my *personal* experience, and will differ from yours, and let's not get into soemthing that petty) have stated the same opinions. The system is too expensive, too little, and too late, slapped across the consumer's face with a full helping of personal insult and lack of faith in their own consumer fanbase. Bravo Sony, Bravo.

This dosnt really bother me. I was gonna wait 6-8 months after it came out to get it any way. This would give them some time to work out the bugs.

i guess i wasnt planning to buy one for a while anyway but like some one said earlier aussies and uk we allways get screwed with game releases , consoles , and some times they just dont even release games in oz at all hell ill go an help em build some more ps3s its just funny we got stinged again with this crap i hope blu ray and sony fall. they wont but i hope they do F@#k heads oh and harvey norman are selling ps3 for 900 dollars here in au man i can fix my car up with that pay off my debts and have some spare its to expensive

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ok time to take back my money now, why is it that europe is always on the "to screw" list? {{"fudge"}} sony.

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hello klingon he loves DRM,see!!!!!!!!!!!




i see ye been having a touch of the suds..wanting more DRM..

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(Were you silly enough to drop some money on a first-release unit?) Oh! You SILLY Early Adopters!!!!!

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I said it once and I will say it again " go and buy a xbox 360. This will hurt Sony more than anything else" Plus I reckon the only reason the USA is only getting 400 Thousand is because sony are not even sure Blu-ray works! Better to recall 400 than it is 800 thousand.

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I said it once and I will say it again " go and buy a xbox 360. This will hurt Sony more than anything else"

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I reckon the only reason the USA is only getting 400 Thousand is because sony are not even sure Blu-ray works! Better to recall 400 than it is 800 thousand.

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hmm, this will not effect PS3 release on Indonesia :), usually indonesia have it faster than any other country (example : indonesia got GBA 2months faster than JAP, got PS2 1months faster than JAP) and i will buy PS3 when the price drop, hmm maybe to 250$, hey! 600$ for game console is ridiculus!

sounds like what everyone in the us will want to do is make friends with someone at best buy or circut city and get two put one on ebay and sell it there because the demand for it will make the resale of a new one pay for both and theis way you get yours free... sorry but around christmas the prices will double once production is in full swing even if there isnt any recalls.. the blue- ray player is the most important part of the relese of the unit.. a non computer drice that will alow the next gen of dvd to be played on your tv. everyone who just bought a new laptop (except macs sold in Japan) will be I should have waited but thats just a thought. anyway the question is when will there be a major game list be issued by sony of all games coming out... and those that are ready...

There is no way in h*ll sony can ship that many systems to that many countries at one time.......remember when the ps2 came out? When the ps2 came out....there Sony didn't even ship simultaneously to every country and there was still a shortage. It wouldn't be a surprise if there is a shortage of PS3 for even the U.S. Customer.

Given how late the PS3 will now be a reasonable price, I suspect there may be a 360 waiting on ebay for me... LOL I used to think myself anti-Xbox, and I'm still wary about the crashes and so on, but I'm not buying a console above £300 as I have a gaming PC, and the Wii isn't HD, so, well... I will get a PS3 eventually because I'm a massive fan of the Gran Turismo series, but it's more likely to be in the same timescale as I got a PS2, xmas 02 rather than mid 01, so it may be mid to late 2008 before sony gets a PS3 sale off me...

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nptwenty... it comes out in March. then by xmas they will drop it by £50 and by then Playstation 4 will be announced...Sony how unhappy you our go by a Xbox 360...I said it once and I will say it again " go and buy a xbox 360. This will hurt Sony more than anything else"

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Lol did it set fire to your carpet?

"sony have said they see a 10 year life cycle on the ps3" - :lol: Yeah right. You surely cannot believe this.....unless you work for Sony or are such a blinkered fan-boy you'll believe anything they claim.

LOL- yeah like the November 06 worldwide launch!

marsey99 was'nt the Playstation 3 announced like 5 years ago?

I only saw the PSOne's demise last year, 2005. I believe the PS was first released in 1995. That's a 10 year life cycle.

well, 360 is crap, ps3 will rule us all,
and stop complaining, PAL people will get better versions, after this article i decided it would be better to wait for the improved ps3's, plus now I'll get a ds lite and save the 130 again.

Well there's a bit of fanboyism for you. I too support the PS3 over the Xbox 360 just a bit because of the way it's being launched, but I wouldn't go as far to say "Xbox 360 is crap". As far as I know the earlier problems have been solved, and whilst a Triple-Core IBM PowerPC system is slower, it's easier to code for. The ATi Graphics processor it uses, whilst based on a variant of HyperMemory, is quite a competent unit (especially compared to that of previous consoles and the Nintendo Wii) but the standard DVD drive will be a stick point that will eventually prove a real problem when games outgrow the fast-approaching 9GB limit.

well, im happy as long as no one gets the $500 version of the ps3, for $100 dollars more, getting the lesser would be a stupid move.

They're not even selling the cheaper version in the UK.

just shows you sony has PAL in there best intrest, wait is worth

Hmmm, maybe, but at the prices I've seen it is not going to be as attractive as its rivals.

600$ for a game console is too expensive.. but i will buy PS3, im MGS, ACE COMBAT, granturismo, Finalfantasy and kingdonhearts FANS

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sony have said they see a 10 year life cycle on the ps3

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FYI, the annoying part is not so much that we'll have to wait another 4ish months, it's that sony (and microsoft for that matter) ALWAYS promise universal, or if not very closely staggered launches and they NEVER deliver them.

I just wish they'd stop blowing up our bloody skirts in an effort to promote their product for a change.

It's about as bad as a politicians promises leading up to election time (which fellow Queenslanders who are voting tomorrow will know ALL about ;) )

I rather Sony come out and do this than to wait til release date and short people even the one who pre-order there months in advance hint hint MicroSoft.PAL area you guys cant be mad they serveing there Big markets first buy more consoles than the US & Japan then you wont have to wait.

CUT THE BULLSH*T everyone!!!! NO one is going to be stupid enough to buy a PS3 until it is cracked!!!! PERIOD!!!!! Unless you are a rich bast*rd who doesn't mind droping hundred dollar bills like pennies.......

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NO one is going to be stupid enough to buy a PS3 until it is cracked!!!! PERIOD!!!!!

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wow, now that is a surpising comment. People will buy the ps3 because it will have great everything, then there are people who know nothing of hacking and are still honest, us on the other hand you may have a point, it would be cool when it's hacked but people want to enjoy for the games, i really don't care about an os or other stuff, but I also wouldn't mind it.

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NO one is going to be stupid enough to buy a PS3 until it is cracked!!!! PERIOD!!!!!

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So are you predicting that the PS3 will be widely available on US storeshelves this Christmas?

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No....the PS3 won't still be available because so many retarded and rich basta*ds will be bought it all...............Rich basta*d parents who are probably too stupid to even know a damn thing about videogames...but are buying it to spoil their retarded kids and whatnot........... Parent's who gave their kids thousands of dollars for just behaving well for the day........should rot in h*ll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Rich basta*d parents who are probably too stupid to even know a damn thing about videogames...but are buying it to spoil their retarded kids and whatnot........... Parent's who gave their kids thousands of dollars for just behaving well for the day........should rot in h*ll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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No....the PS3 won't still be available because so many retarded and rich basta*ds will be bought it all...............Rich basta*d parents who are probably too stupid to even know a damn thing about videogames...but are buying it to spoil their retarded kids and whatnot........... Parent's who gave their kids thousands of dollars for just behaving well for the day........should rot in h*ll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Why would anyone with half a brain buy a ps3 when it's not cracked yet!!!!!!! Seriously.......you are stupid!!!!! Unless you are a rich basta*d!!!!!! and feel like you rather buys games then backup copies you already have!!!!!! Real Smart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Why would anyone with half a brain buy a ps3 when it's not cracked yet!!!!!!! Seriously.......you are stupid!!!!! Unless you are a rich basta*d!!!!!! and feel like you rather buys games then backup copies you already have!!!!!! Real Smart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Been there...done that.... the movie didn't help!!!!! Especially Jack Nickleson's character. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's hopeless then.

Wow, there are so many things to talk about here. Anger management sounds like a good one... lol :) There are many ways you can look at this but I am one who doesn't mind waiting a little longer for a higher quality product. As far as I know the first version release of ANY product will more than likely have a few bugs. So the fact that Sony are pushing back the release dates could also be an indication to further refinement of the system. I am sure that they will not make any of this public though. I mean who wants to hear that a $999 (Australian Dollars) system could potentially have faults? I am also one that will not buy a PS3 straight away. The price is too high for a gaming console for me. However I can see justification in the price with the Blu-ray player alone. A Blu-ray DVD player costs the same amount as the initial release price of a PS3 and that's WITHOUT the gaming hardware. As for the very first post regarding Indonesia getting things even before Japan. I don't know any way to say this without insulting but my thoughts are that the only reason for this could be a Guinea Pig type scenario. To test if the product has any faults... To test market reaction etc. I mean it's MADE IN JAPAN. So why would they release it anywhere else first, unless for the reason I just mentioned? I don't know, it could be Indonesia has more relaxed import laws, but I honestly think it's more of a testing medium for Sony.

Seriously, take your dirty rants elsewhere!

Ahhh... I'm going to sound a little paranoid here but sammorris that post was for vgaddict8 right?

Yes. apologies, your post hadnt appeared when I wrote that.

I agree with your statement pretty much totally. Well argued.

vgaddict8 cant probly even afford a system and pirates video games .... , i dont recall ps3 beeing annouced 5 years ago 21Q : 500 version is cheapest and yes 100 dollars more for the BLUE RAY is worth it , that blue ray cost $1,000 dollars so for 100 bucks not only u get blue ray but a sh%* load of more stuff such as a 60 gb (instd of 20) hdmi ports and more stuff i forgot jutsu : well not really if you think of the blue ray player alone cost 1,000 but having a video game and a super compter is a bonus!!! , anything is possible especially with new tech... but again theirs warrantys for a few bucks have 5 years warranty OR BE SMART and buy this ps3 AT COSTCO and have lifetime reuturn cash

vgaddict8 ouch,and yes alot of people will buy,frist off the fan boys and 2ndly the rich 3rdly the brain dead,everyone else will wait or know what they are doing when they buy a new gen over priced system hopefully with a 2+ year warranty. gus738 Mmmmmmm yes and no,the 600 PS3 will be worth it when it drops 100-200$ And even buying the low end pay for the extra warranty another 50 or so will be well worth it. Ryu77 At last Sony is doing some beta work on the hardware!

I keep hearing " its Blu-ray, Blu-ray dvd players cost £1000 so paying £600 is a bargain. Remember when PS2 first came out? You played a dvd and it was green! Then why do you think its called blu - ray? stick it together as one word sounds like blurry! Nice sales pitch! We have a xbox 360 here for Less than £300 with games and a soon to be released High Definition DVD Player and over here you have the £600 sony blurry...Customer says" Im sorry what? Blurry my arse my eye sight is fine I can see how much that thing costs! Im not a sony hater! I had a PS & PS2 but when my Xbox died one day (18 months old) I phoned up Microsoft and asked how much will it cost to have repaired? Nothing - Thats right I paid for it to be sent off. Microsoft fixed it and returned it FREE! even though it was over a year old and been played to death. Sony on the other hand - Had to go and buy a new console. Thats how they claim to sell so many!

*Sniff, Sniff What's that I smell? Deep trouble for Sony? So production problems will hurt unit production. That means that the increased labour cost will also increase the hardware cost of the system. Nintendo is ahead of schedule in production of Wii hardware components, and is going full steam ahead to final production. I will be buying a Wii this Christmas, but I'll be laughing at the people who plunk down more than twice the dough for a PS3. For $700 I could get a Wii, extra controllers, and 4 games... Or a sinlge PS3 module with one controller, no games. If a PS3 will be potentially harder to come by, how many parents / average gamers will put up with the hassle? Sony will lose market share to Nintendo if they don't come out full steam.

i stand by all my earlier posts
@nnptwenty your right m$ has probably the best aftersales care in the buisness for legitimate customers, thats because they want to keep your custom.
maybe waiting for the second gen of games for the ps3 would be a wise move as the release batch usaly suk, but wait the uk is only getting it late so they will almost be out anyway.
the big problem i see with the late release is that it is going up against halo 3 and thats one of the few box exculsive that i wanted, oh my head hurts

gus738: Both versions have bluray, the cheaper version has a smaller hard disk.
nptwenty: Sony are guilty of poor after-sales support, you're right, but your Blu-ray blurry talk is just complete rubbish, I have no idea what you're on about.
Thonor: I looked into a Wii, but for something that still only outputs a standard definition signal (480p, the same as an old style DVD player) it's like something from the dark ages compared to its competitors.

to the microsoft ppl, there have been hints to the pricing of the HD-DVD and if u buy it you'll be spending jus a lil bit more than the ps3.

But the Xbox HD-DVD drive won't be running games though will it?

No only movies thats all

Had heard that PS3 would be Region free,Does anyone know if this is true

No....the PS3 won't still be available because so many retarded and rich basta*ds will be bought it all...............Rich basta*d parents who are probably too stupid to even know a damn thing about videogames...but are buying it to spoil their retarded kids and whatnot........... Parent's who gave their kids thousands of dollars for just behaving well for the day........should rot in h*ll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am NOT rich BUT I will buy like 5-10 PS3s and sell them on EBAY to those rich Bastards who have more money than time to wait in line. Sell all but 1 and get mine FREE and pocket like $5000 cash. I did it with the 360 Bought 5 sold 4 and made $2500 cash This is how you can get a PS3 for FREE I use Credit Cards to buy the systems and then have cash before the bill comes in WWWEEEEEE

Of course you need to have quite a lot of initial capital to do that! Can we tone down this conversation a bit? I know people feel strongly about this subject, but young people read and contribute to these forums.

I don't know where everyone lives, I'm in the USA/ sub. of Chicago and we cannot reserve a Ps3 anywhere because there is no solid launch date as of 9/8/2006 gamestop, gamecrazy none of them will take a reserve. My point is,don't hold your breath for the release of the Ps3 because you will not see it until 2007. Go out and try to reserve a Ps3 you will see what I am saying.

Play.com in the UK seem to accept pre-orders and just dispatch it "whenever the release date happens to end up"

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I am NOT rich BUT I will buy like 5-10 PS3s and sell them on EBAY to those rich Bastards who have more money than time to wait in line. Sell all but 1 and get mine FREE and pocket like $5000 cash. I did it with the 360 Bought 5 sold 4 and made $2500 cash This is how you can get a PS3 for FREE I use Credit Cards to buy the systems and then have cash before the bill comes in WWWEEEEEE

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Consoles, why bother tbh. Im gonna stick with my PC. Its faster, more powerfull, and i dont have to buy a whole new PC to upgrade it. Consoles are a kids/early-teens toy. But at the end of the day, if someone wants to buy a PS3,xbos360 let them. Its a free planet. No need to get shitty about it like somewhove posted

Not risky, Did you hear that there is only 500,000 on the launch date. BUT timeing IS everything, The max price is not just before christmas, Its the day for the launch about 3-6pm when people find out everywhere is already SOLD OUT
History has proven that there WILL be a MASSIVE shortage for ANY new system and resale value of a new system JUST before x-mas AAAAHHHHH
I feel a new 32"HDTV for me this christmas

That's true, when systems first appear, prices are through the roof. PS2s were £500 when first available because everywhere sold out. Now look at how much they cost!

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Not risky, Did you hear that there is only 500,000 on the launch date. BUT timeing IS everything, The max price is not just before christmas, Its the day for the launch about 3-6pm when people find out everywhere is already SOLD OUT
History has proven that there WILL be a MASSIVE shortage for ANY new system and resale value of a new system JUST before x-mas AAAAHHHHH
I feel a new 32"HDTV for me this christmas

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Not all people that spend hours queuing to get a console are rich.

the ps3 is still worth it , spending 600 bucks for a blue ray plus the best video game system and not to metioned one of the best super compter , and your 600 bucks is insured with costco life timme return cash policy!... i myself own a x360 ,, and paying for the HD-DVD drive not only its external and you'll lag but for what the price is going to be i'd rather buy a ps3 ... and idont have to worry since i bought my x360 in costco i return it tell its broken and get my cash back and buy a new ps3!

Costco will give you cash no matter how long ago you bought it?

andersg most certianly , thats where i plan to buy the HD-56FN97 tv ... they give you LIFE TIME cash back return policy on EVERYTING except pc .... dvd plalyers will x360 ps3 ds and much much more , go check out ur local one and ask about the return policy and u'll belive me , ever since i knew from that store i never bought from any other store unless costco doesnt have the item,...

@sammorris
m$ also said that you wouldnt need the harddrive to play games and how long did that last? i think its only a matter of time before a revised 360 appears with in built hd dvd drive
sorrry if it off topic but it seems relivant

The PS3 is still to costly to my cheapness the 360 is worth 299 and the PS3 barely 400. I wont be looking at a 360 since I got a Xbox,the 360 is crap if you are not online or a Fan boy,the PS3 seems to ahve more effort put into it thus its worth a bit more but theres only so muh BS I am willing to put up with.

marsey99 Well for MS to plop a HD DVD drive into the 360 1 of 3 things need to happen 1.HD DVD wins the format war,2 MS puts a ton of effort into HD DVD games 3 the Xbx2 comes out its ike a upgraded 360 with 4 cores,and full Xbx and 360 backwards compatibility. the 360 is a mess and might not last 3 years unless MS starts dumping alot of effort into it.......

EVERY game needs to run on EVERY Xbox360, so even if it gets used, it will never be required.

About the costco return policy, as of now you can return pretty much anything you bought to get a refund at the full purchase price. A lot of people do this with big screen TVs so they can upgrade to the latest model without having to take a big $$$ hit. Here is a good article that talks about about the higher prices of current and upcoming consoles: http://www.htpcforums.com/index.php?showtopic=578

That's an incredible returns policy!

[qutote]$499 - No bluray drive and 20GB hard drive. $599 - Includes bluray drive and 60 GB hard drive.

Where was that posted? ALL PS3 GAMES WILL BE BLURAY DISCS, NO CONSOLES WILL BE SHIPPED WITHOUT A BLURAY DRIVE.

you metioned that both price versions will have blue ray , as it turns out to be only the expensive ( deluxe ) edition has blue ray gus738: Both versions have bluray, the cheaper version has a smaller hard disk. nptwenty: Sony are guilty of poor after-sales support, you're right, but your Blu-ray blurry talk is just complete rubbish, I have no idea what you're on about. Thonor: I looked into a Wii, but for something that still only outputs a standard definition signal (480p, the same as an old style DVD player) it's like something from the dark ages compared to its competitors.

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The PS3 "core" has a 20GB HDD, wireless controllers, no wi-fi networking, no card reader and no HDMI.

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From wikipedia. From Sony's official site. I mentioned that both price versions will have Blu-ray. As it turns out both price versions will have Blu-ray.

the 360 is a mess and a waste of silicon,the PS3 looks ok but has its own set of issues and the WII looks prefect to me. Quality + new control scheme + Good Current Gen graphics what more can you ask for :3 sammorris Yup that sounds right. He's either a noob,doesn't know or is a fanboy.

AH you sure about the wireless controllers on the low end? I cant really find any hard info on it.

lol ok so i got missleading information , i'm glad that the ppl that cant afford the expeive version atlest they get blue ray on the lower price version :P

probably all three, LOL. I think your comment on the 360 is a bit harsh, it has some good games, is reasonably priced, has good after-sales support and was the first onto the HD scene. The previous QC issues put me off though. The Wii is a fantastic concept, but the lack of HD for me is unforgivable. The PS3 however saves me from buying a Bluray DVD player/drive (at least initially, although I rather suspect PC games will be coming on HD-DVDs rather than Blurays), has the best graphics capability (and the best suitability for my monitor too) and given it has had time to mature, by the time I buy one they should be quite reliable. The only thing stopping me is the delay and the price, but for what I see, I'm prepared to save up and wait.

Actually that was unfair, gus, but in future we would like proof of your statements, especially if they seem contradictory.

sammorris meh the 360s launch was a mess,half of its better games are on PC,its hardware is fcked up...its a mess dose not have enough games to make it worth 400$ + its jsut blah...if you are not a Fanboy or don't have board band its not worth it f they took the time and did BWC right you would have a automatic library f games and thus be well worth 400-500 but noooooeesss they went cheap and it shows it.. MS has 2 options to fight the PS3 long term either start putting alot of effort into it or rolling out the Xbx2 in 3 years..

why ppl fall under the ideal that HD-DVD can provide better hd games???? BLUE RAY is bigger gb size so therefore if hd games inprove then blue ray would be it .... i mean hd dvd only stores 20 or 30 gb as where a blue ray can/ or will store 50 to 200 gb on a single disc

gus738 its a bit more messy than that,BR might have more space but it also has the least amount of space between the data area of a disc and the outside witch can lead to data loss when scratched and such not a good thing for gaming,on the other side HD DVD has a leg up on BR when it comes to movies the codec MS made has better clarity and sharpness...its a mess and things are going to get more dirty before things get better.

Bluray discs are a similar density, there's nothing stopping dual layer HD-DVD discs coming out, but I say it's the format for PC games since it's the format Microsoft support...

sammorris doesn't HD DVD have 0.3-0.6 mm from the outside? its nearly 2-3X as much as BR. Do you know if they are going to cover the foil top with plastic? I would love to see a design better than CD/DVD ><

I STILL STAND BY ALL MY COMMENTS. hddvd holds 15gb per layer and because of the depth of data can only hold 2, brdvds hold 25gb per layer and theoreticly could have six. but they are having problems with reading the second layers at the min. how long will it be before the 9gb on a dvd isnt enough space to hold all the data needed for hidef games? realy i dont know. sure it wont be long. hddvd drive/add-on games are the only way the 360 will not be replaced by 07/08, and the main reason m$ has pushed this format is so it can easily interchange the parts and charge us more for the honuor of being ripped off. all theyd need to do is swap the diode in the drive for a nice new blue one(both hd + br have blue lasers)and a slight software change. no biggie for a company like m$

forgot to mention memorex(yea i know) have aparently come up with a new type of coating like that on expensive watches that cant be scratched. only time will tell

Assassins Creed Big PS3 Exclusive jumped ship and is now coming to XBOX 360 & PC. Grand Theft Auto 4 guess what? Yep Coming to Xbox 360

You know what they say: better late than never.

gta was that exclusive that the 3 best versions of the others are on the xbox. that was a deal that said they, rockstar, would give sony 6 months before they released other versions and that ran out before san andreas was released. it did give them time to polish the xbox conversion tho

I personally am backing Blu-ray to eventually win the format war but that is only an opinion...

To reference to a few posts back. Let's stick to SINGLE LAYER information to keep a measurable scale factor. I mean if you want to talk multi layer then that's whole different topic because the format is so new that NO-ONE knows what the future could hold. Blu-ray is 25gb where as HD-DVD is 15gb.

To me this puts them both in a very similar category as an optical media. I personally believe that the eventual winner will be due to which standard can invoke the best marketing techniques, who can contract the biggest amount of movie studios etc... etc...

It's not always who has a better product that wins in the end. In fact I have seen many cases where an inferior product has won due to superior marketing techniques.

I don't want to sound rude but I can see an awful lot of posts here where people are saying things without putting the proper thought and research into them. So let's all sing some wiggles songs, relax a little, humble ourselves enough to keep an open mind towards other peoples input and enjoy the wealth of information that this site can provide! :-)

Oh... That reminds me... Hot Potato.. Hot Potato.. Go Wiggles! See what you've done to me now!

Im sold!http://www.break.com/index/ps3_vs_nintendos_wii.html Why is everyone so impressed with the size of Blu-ray? Gee! my dick is bigger than yours. So what! Its what you do with it:) And sony our limp in that department! I had rather play a game than watch a hour of cgi movie - Thats what Pixar are for. The XBOX 360 is here NOW! Its got some great games out NOW! and coming soon. This will tie me over untill Sony gets it Ray gets his Blu finger out of his arse and drops the price too!

Im sold!http://www.break.com/index/ps3_vs_nintendos_wii.html Why is everyone so impressed with the size of Blu-ray? Gee! my dick is bigger than yours. So what! Its what you do with it:) And sony our limp in that department! I had rather play a game than watch a hour of cgi movie - Thats what Pixar are for. The XBOX 360 is here NOW! Its got some great games out NOW! and coming soon. This will tie me over untill Sony gets it Ray gets his Blu finger out of his arse and drops the price too!

So the core version will have Blu Ray but no HDMI? I wonder how many people who aren't reading up on this stuff on the Net are thinking gee I can get the core version for less but still use it for a BR movie player on their HDTV's.

Anyway I seem to recall in order to watch true High Def quality on HDTV you need the HDMI?

yep no hdmi, no hidef video. the thing that i find intresting is the lack of magicgate, iv read that theres a conector for memory cards to go in to a flash slot but, how will they do it on the core system? backwards compatible if you want to start all your old games again? also that the bat in the pad will last 7 hours and can be recharged thru usb on the system. @nptwenty rofl that vid is ace.

nptwenty the PS3 and BR have potential ,current games cant advance in graphics much more because of the size limit of DVDs without having to compress the graphics to death you get amazing results this is why theres something to the PS3 and something lacking n the 360,the 360 is built for right now,the PS3 is built for the next 10 years of gaming. Altho the PS3 dose come at a heavy price and even I wont touch it for acouple years. The WII dose have a mix of innovation and quality and current gen graphics at a reasonable price so thats a system for me right NOW tnarulz/marsey99 HDMI dose not mean no High def video.....HDMI is the digital version of a analog in put so they can DRM it and make sure its going to a legit device,having HDMI or not will not effect the visual quality ,HOWEVER hollywood will start using its DRM in the next 3 or so years and knowing them they will either halve it or cripple it on analog devices. the PS3 core and high end are built the same so both have full BWC,same specs but the high end has HDMI and thats the only thing that can not be added onto the CORE.

ZippyDSM is right. You can still get high def video from the core system. You can get 720p, 1080i and 1080p thru a component cable.

Well, That's F#$%@*D

dblbogey7
yup basically its free high def until they start crippling them with the DRM then I think it will halve them so its either 480 or 540 but knowing hollywood you know some will try the no DRM no play crap I can smell the BS coming already ><
but you don't have to worry about hollywoods DRM schemes till at least late 08 maybe 09.
For now the systems for gaming do do full High def same for 360,its jsut the high end PS3 has the DRM approved device,that being HDMI,and HDMI will guarantee whatever BS hollywood slings it will play BR movies fully.

edit:give me time to correct my posts will ya :P

No matter what the copy protection it'll be cracked eventually.

crowy
true but with the PS3 being online just look at the PSP and the 360 it will be a game of eternal PONG with the hackers and the system makers so don't think it will be cracked before 09
unless of coarse you get 2 systems one to mod and one for online 0-o

ZIppyDSM is pretty much right , thro hdmi theirs going to be a protection ( similir to macrovision) so if the audiohence dont meet the requirements such as using hdmi , they wont see completely the quality,, they will see hd but it will be more like hd analog ,,, yes they did this on purpose , i still yet dont know the purpose other then factorys risking ppl recording manuely thro hdmi as hd

everything gets cracked eveetually so i think its kinda of dumb but hey not everyone listens ....

NO HDMI on core PS3 but is there one on the 360? or maybe one on the new HD-DVD add on? beacuse if not they are all going to be crippled when hollywood does it. My guess is, for legal reasons they wont cripple it or require DRM on either standard. I know ill be on the boat of a class action lawsuit against them selling me compatible parts then changing the standard. There has to be something illegal about it, some sort of bait and switch. "buy a PS3 for movies!" "oh im sorry you need and HDMI PS3 for movies, we didnt say how long it would be supported, but you can make really cool coasters out of your new BD movies!!" Ludikhris

gus738 heres the thing tho the new consoles are online so moding them is going to take awhile with them formating the frimware,but on a stand alone player not pluged into the net this is how it works the DRM will look into its list of encrypted codes and as long as the device has the codes it will play newer movies with have a update list its a losing battle and whats to keep china from making device that skip or emulate such things? Ludikhris nope the 360 came out to soon to get the HDMI spec,so the 360 is flying without the DRM scheme hollywood wants in place by 010 or so..

Let's do some translation here:

"Ten year lifespan"
-Translation: There will be great games after the first year the system is out. For about 4 years cutting edge titles will be very prominent and fun. After the fifth year, people will not only notice, but mock how far behind the console is compared to pc graphics; and people will start to talk more seiously about the 'next gen'.

In most cases, this is what a ten year life span really means. And to say that the PS1 died in 1995..... I'm sorry. No.

The dreamcast had two games released publicly this year, but it is still a 'dead' system. I love the thing, but it is dead no less.

Some people even make games for the sega saturn still, but again, that does not mean that people still commonly use the system.

IMO, a system is dead when game stores start clearing the titles out. Heck, N-Gage still has games made now, but almost no store on earth carries them. It isn't the fact that *some* titles are still being produced; IMO it should be when a game system becomes publicly thought of as obselete. The Dreamcast, yet again, beautifully demonstrates this fact. Sega announced 18 months ahead of time, that they were going to discontinue the system, stating that at that time support and new titles would stop. Titles were released literally up until that last official week. However, it was at the time the announcement was made (and in some locations before) that the system truly went belly-up. Some stores clearanced it right away, while other stores held it long after it was officially deceased. Just because a specialty store still carries it, doesn't mean it's still an active system. I think a more accurate way to describe a system's lifetime should be to gauge when the system stops receiving an average of 36 titles a year. That's just three per month (on average, some have less, others have more, sometimes a BUNCH come out at the end of the year, etc). Really though, when it slows down past that point, it seems pretty safe to say that a system has run, and finished, it's course. I don't care if a company finally announces it's old system is dead; the ps1 has been dead since about the end of 2003. That's still a good, long, shelf life, but not ten years.

The PS2 was released in America at the end of 2001, and so far, has made it well into 2006, probably through a degree of 2007 as well, which indicates a decent lifetime as well. But let's face it, a ten year lifetime realistically does not happen.

Some people are arguing that the PS3's cell processor and Blu-ray will make it stay ahead that much longer. Given the nature of electronic hardware, it can easily be seen, that this hardware will not match up the test of time any better than it's predecessors or competitors. (Technically excusing the Wii, with a 729Mhz processor, because hardware is not, and never was it's focus.) Once a newer processor, card, or gizmo is released; it gets copied, improved, and revised over and over again. Not to mention, Sony has already expressed interest in using cell processors in actual PC's. Being outperformed is inevitable in this market, and it has been a quicker and quikcer process as of late. No one can garauntee shelf life, not M$, not Nintendo, not Sony. If they claimed an eight year shelf life, I would be more apt to believe it. The PS1 had a good eight year run, the PS2 might make it, so I could believe it.

I wouldn't expect any system to really be a 'good' or 'up to date' system for a decade. And whether a piece of hardware technically exists for a decade is really a useless bit of information. My Nintendo 64 still exists, but that doesn't mean I still use it nearly as often as my current systems.

All things considered, a statement like "Sony estimates the Playstation 3 will be in stores for ten years" is like saying "Sony estimates that the PS3 will use a tv to display games that you play with a controller" it's detailed, and yet useless at the same time.

Sorry if that bursts anyone's bubble. But it's a long rant with some logic behind it. I'm not anti-sony, I enjoy all my game systems, but I've come to learn that Sony's claims must be taken with a grain of salt. Those of us able to clearly recall the PS2 launch will also remember that Sony was stating it to be a 1000Mhz system up until about one month before launch. They also advertised a bunch of video intros; claiming in game footage looked that good. Does anyone remember seeing the trailer for FFX? "Real In Game Footage", propelled by Sony. Sorry if I seem skeptical, or anti-sony, but given their track record for honesty...... Can you really blame me?

Handsom is right about 10 year lifespan, which made me think of this. The Blue ray will read faster, it will have more space but one thing people forgot to mention. "Will it die faster?" Im a sony fan but after 2 years of owning a PS2 the lens become dirty and it ages and it stops reading discs. A.K.A (DRE) Disc Read Error Most PS2 owners had this problem and the other versions of the PS2 that were released had fixes. To those people who buy the PS3 on release date imma recommend you wait a month or so till feedback of other owners or magazines review the console. Or get it on release date and get a good warranty for it maybe Best Buy with a 2 year or more. And another thing if you do get it on release date, dont tell your friends or else you'll have cousins friends and everyone in your room taking turns raping your PS3.

handsom true true but the games still make the systems thats why the consoles sell,PS3 will maximize its life span because of the new tech in it it will go 5 years easy,beyond that it could go another 5 they always seem to find new coding techqines after the 5th year,what I am saying is the PS3 will try to have a longer life span than the PS2 maybe by a year or 3 whlie they work on a better successor. sure tech reinvents itself every 8 months but the PS3 is built for a long bumpy ride while the 360 seems to be built for shrot trem 3ish years the PS3 seems to be build for the next 6. the PS3 has the tech and the games to take its throne as number one but I wonder if the price will keep it down for the count. the 360 is built reasonably for the short trem but MS has made alot of mistakes,the WII seems to be standard Nintendo fare quality with enough tech to make it worth any graphic worshiping gamers time. we have 3 different company's going about the same goal 3 different ways its going to more of a hellishly fun ride than it has been i the past few years ^^

thats why theirs smart buying customers with warrantys.. as for those that were not smart enough to buy a warranty , even a ps2 back then was enought money to buy a warranty , heck if ppl r really smart they buy from costco you have lifetime return cash no matter how long you have had ps3

Marsey you're right about the problem with traditional DVDs, it won't be very long at all before games will start to want more than 9GB of data. Unreal Tournament 2004, released in the year of its name, used 5.5GB of hard disk space, with a few modifications installed, that easily hits double figures. Yes, it may use a bit more data than a console version, but sooner rather than later, that trend will see the end of the 360's standard DVD space limitation and that will have to lead to cut-down versions of games on the 360, or all the multi-platform games being cut down to fit it, whilst the PS3 only games are allowed up to and possibly over 5x as much data.

With the HD format war, the way I see it is that neither of them can be eliminated. BluRay is supported by Sony and Dell, and HD-DVD is supported by Microsoft and Toshiba. None of those companies are going to go away any time soon, so I suspect it will end up being a stalemate. To watch HD video you technically need an HDMI connector unless you have a workaround, we shall have to go looking for some! However, if you can avoid the copy protection you can use component. The DRM will come, but we just have to hope there are fair usage rights people working to remove it before it's released. Usually the "criminals" can keep one step ahead of the game, but we shall see.

Handsom: That was an excellent post, I am in agreement with most of that rant, the liefetime of a system is really until it stops being bought en masse.

What is it with you people against XBOX 360. Oh its gonna run out off space soon. It can on handle 9GB. HELLO!!!! If a game is that big they simply make it a !!Two!! Disc game - Oh I forgot your gonna say " what I have to get up and change the disc?" (remember Final Fantasy?) There's just no pleasing some people. Nearly everyone here are saying its too expensive but, Blu - ray is the future. So like me your gonna wait a year or two hopefully the price will come down and Sony would of "yet again" Hopefully sorted out any faults ect! I only recently bought a 360 cause I had my doubts to.. Wished I bought one sooner. If Sony wants me to buy their PS3 they will have to bring the price down. Untill then Im sticking with my PC & 360.

There's no pleasing some people with an Xbox 360, hence why those people are buying a PS3. I won't buy stuff I'm not interested in because it's cheaper, I save up and buy something good. I deliberately held off buying an LCD because of the res, response rate etc. Until I found my current one which is good, so I bought it.

nptwenty If studios and publishers gave a damn and put a whole game on 2 or 3 discs sure that would be fine but they wont because they are cheap it can be done and that would break the size limit games are heading for but they would rather cram and compress than use multi discs. sammorris The 360 is looking up but its not cheap still not happy with the current game line up maybe in a year it will be worth getting,I do know the PS3 and the WII are quality or at the least are more quality than the 360 but its hard to measure edicks with unreleased consoles they have to come out before I can be truly unhappy with them :P

Mmm, to be quite honest I'm assuming/expecting/believing that the initial tech problems of the 360 are sorted by now. If they're not then shame on Microsoft. Despite what sort of a company Sony is I still trust them more to make a console that's powerful and reliable. Microsoft's after-sales support for the xbox 360 is supposed to be very good (although I doubt that's the case in the UK), but I've never had to use the after-sales support for my nearly 4 year old PS2. It doesn't overheat, or chew up discs. I share your concern about the 360's price. It's a lot cheaper than the PS3 will be, but it's not cheap enough to make me want to buy it instead. When I said I was contemplating buying one, just after I sent the message my Internet service went down for 3 hours, doesn't that just give you the feeling you shouldn't buy one? I don't claim to be supersitious or to have Extrasensory perception, but I have predicted far too many bad things to dismiss them as coincidence. Buying a 360 has bad news written all over it. Back on the real world though, there are a few games I would like to play on it, but since it isn't an HD-DVD player as of yet (and even if it was I wouldnt use that feature), it is only a games console to me, hence the price of each game includes it's share of the console's price. I can only think of maybe 4 games I'd want on a 360 as of now, which makes the average price per game somewhere around the £90 mark. No thanks. If they're on PC, I'll do that, if they're not, I'll wait.

sammorris they have to a point and the new revision is to come out this year witch will nail 80% of the problems dead the 10% are commen bugs that new revisions might bring and the other 10% is my dislike of the 360 :P,altho I will not buy the launch system I wont touch it with a 10 foot poll because of all the issues they have had with it,however if I can score it under 100 I'll be happy to have to get another for 100 if it dies 0-o *L* the 360 is like the saturn or DC or any Japanese system it has midcore support in the states but loved at home and thats the 360 it sales enough in the US to keep it going then anything it sales outside the US is extra. games is reason number 1 why I have not bothered with a 360 since I didn't have a Xbox when it came out I could kill 2 birds with one system unfortunately MS didn't put alot of effort into the 360 it shows it and well its hurt the 360 I have stayed away from it I don't have 500$ to kill on a system that has a 30-80% random chance to fry plus since the games on it are a few select Xbx and the 360 games my exsitmate wained and wained again when half of the better 360 games are on PC in a year or 2 the 360 should become worth while as long as its worth is under 300 with HD. MS just screwed up badly on the 360 and it will take 2 years for the to recover fro it and bring the system up to speed while they are doing it the WII will hit the ground running and so will the PS3 the more its delayed the more games will get done and not be rushed to fing death,ect,ect,ect,ect

That's one way of putting it! Under $100, wow. I'll get one if it dips below £100, a little less sharp a goal, but since it's double that at the moment, I may have to wait a while. The PS3 will also be double what I want to pay for it, and that's not even out for another 6 months. If it's a really good system I'l be happy to pay £250-£300 to have one, but no more than that, and ideally that should include a game as well. I wouldn't normally be fussed about HDMI (I'm not really fussed about the 60GB drive as yet either, especially if you can put your own in, ahem 250GB for £60 lol) but you never know what the future may hold, so come prepared I say. I've previously bought Playstations on the strength of the Gran Turismo series, and this one doesn't look much different. I can't wait to play that on my 24" Dell LCD.

sammorris I am reasonable sometimes the PS3 is worth no more than 400 to me and thats the thing they are trying to sale for 600. I would ave been ok with the 360s price if they did full BWC but they didn't and that drops the price dawn to 300 and even then...with the hardware woes and lack of games 200 is as much as I am willing to spend on it right now,I would take a core unit for 150 but I don't see any real price drops 2 years at least so the 360 is off my list since I just picked up a Xbx and 4 or 5 games for 100 off Ebay :3 it has house of the dead 3 and a gun wif it ^^ HAVE to get halo 2 and NGB next month :3

The trouble is, BluRay technology is so new, it's just too expensive to put in a reasonably priced console, and the same for the 360 and HD-DVD. When the PS2 came out, it had a DVD drive, but DVD technology wasn't new then, in fact my first PC which I got a full two years before the PS2 came out had a 6x DVD-ROM, and being a prebuilt system, I expect that there were probably 8x DVD drives by then. BluRay isn't really a proven platform anywhere yet, and I think I for one would be happy to see neither the 360 or PS3 be quite so powerful but have embraced both new media technologies to keep the cost a bit down and yet still be very attractive machines. As it is, one has it and costs too much, and one doesn't and costs a lot less, but still too much to not have it.

Ya the 360 was mishandled and the PS3 is just to much both are monsters but in different ways.the WII is stable and happy with itself the 360 is a recovering bulimic/drug addict model and the PS3 is a pampered sheltered rich boy.....its scary ya know, in time reality will make them better but this has/is the most fcked up systems STARTo I have seen 0-o

edit

Lol yeah it's pretty dire. However, a lot of people speak favourably of the Wii, but for me, it being Standard resolution just doesn't really cut it for me. 1366x768 or 1280x720, fine. But 640x480 just ain't good enough for a product that won't be in many households until 2007. I love the concept, but not the implementation. Same goes for the other consoles I suppose!

sammorris I know this sounds silly but Nintendo is known for doing more with less and there are alot of techniques that can make 640x480 look great so theres a 50/50 chances its not that add but it is a 300 once you get a game or 2 so well worth more research before purchased to me tho its well worth it if I have the money >>

sorry i was lead to belive that hidef vid was beyond component cables. i was looking at a box last night that you plug hdmi into and it removes the DRM, but thats not what the box is for its called dvimagic i still think the 360 is another dreamcast and i am glad i sold mine when peeps still wanted them. how long till xbox live 365? any1? i think xmas 08.

marsey99 well you are half right Hidef comes in 3 forms Digital,Analog and the new DRM scheme witch will halve the quality on non digital outputs. there is no diffrance between Digital and Analog right now,when hollywood starts its new DRM scheme MOVIES will be halved on analog devices. Yes a device like dvimagic magic might work but you see the organization hat hands out the DRM pass codes tracks and makes invalided questionable codes so the industry will be one step behind the cheat devices as it where,sure you might get a few movies to work at full res but the next set of movies with updated code's will not work at full res.

What you want is some online enabled system that can change the code whenever it changes, in order to play the new stuff. I'm limited to DVI and Component with my PC monitor anyway.

sammorris they sale adapters you know *rolls eyes* *L* now converters are more tricky I have not realy seen one that can do a conversion decently,I ahve seen the 150 ultimate convters that can do A/V,Svid,VGA,DVI back and forth.

I'm aware of HDMI to DVI stuff being about, but with regard to copy protection?

sammorris the copy protection in this case is halving the res so you cant get high def when you copy you only get lesser res with maybe some dist oration like macro vision...... heres the thing anyone with a computer and a drive that can read it all they need is a riper that overrides its encryption thus nulling everything but the halving on analog devices and the macro vision effect on recorders if it has that..but you still can copy it..once the rippers get up to speed.

So, forgive me being a bit of a philistine here, what would I need to watch legitimate High-def media through the Bluray drive on a PS3, for example? In addition to that, what downloadable high definition formats are recommended, and why is my PC unable to display the H.264 codec? Is it unsupported on ATi cards?

sammorris
the High def cables DVI to be exact.

in 2ish years is when you might need newer cables that support the HDMI assuming you have the high end PS3 in order to jump thru the herdels hollywood has set out..in order to play newer movies in HIGH RES .

as far as i know a top end ps3 and a hdtv

This is what I have on the back of my monitor:
http://www.windowsforum.org/users/craig/dell/large/Dsc00968.jpg

marsey99 a HD TV will help LOL doh I forgot that >< but both PS3s can do high defs now when hollywood dose thier thing in acouple years who knows what you will need.

A lawyer, probably.

"360 Tech Problems" Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! ....ha! *AHEM* I'm sorry, did I laugh out loud? I've voiced this before, but I had the deranged 'pleasure' of working in a game store, during and the four months after the launch. Second busiest store in Southern California. Full time, manager, 40+ hours/week. Do you know how many 360's came back to that store? Two. One came in on my shift. It was a mother who bought t for their kid for Christmas, she could shell out over $500 for a system with games and controllers, but she refused to connect it to the internet, and couldn't understand how other people said it was so much fun. The other came in off my shift. A couple stoners brought faded looking console that smelled like their bongwater. They told us that it just stopped working out of nowhere. The current manager plugged it in, and the smell got stronger, much stronger. Apparently 360's have a design flaw: BONGWATER!!! Whatever you do people, keep the bongwater, or anything else that might be associated with the words 'bong' or 'water' away from yur 360's! M$ forgot to program anti-bongwater technology!!! Shame on them! ^^^True Story^^^ That's not to say that bad systems didn't exist. Unfortunatey for some, they were primarily on the East coast, nowehere near us. However, when all was said and done, it was found that the defect was corrected after th first shipment,and the frst shipment literally had less than a 3% defect rate. For opening day, that ain't bad. Look at DC and PS2 with their first shipments *shudders*, then tell me how much better Sony is than everybody else about hardware production. Some games did crash on launch shipments. But the fix was not hardware or even M$ dash patching. It was the individual games that needed patching, because game companies did not test properly. And one can hardly hold that against a hardware manufacturer. I might as well sue Sony when a gameshark corrupts my saves. Really.

*Wishes he could edit and add to last post* Two things: -I do not mean to say that Sony made the DC, Sega did, the llustration shows that all manufacturers screw up. Sony, M$, you name it. -I would like to note that while I decry the 'estimated lifetime of the ps3' I am not saying the hardware will die faster, although reading that much data consistently can, by default, offer a short lifespan for Blu-ray drives. I wonder how Sony is countering that, I'm sure they are. I will say they've been quite stupid lately; but they're definitely smart enough to have a counter measure to prevent blu-death. I just wonder what it is.

you can get cables with one hdmi and dvi @ the other that should work but youll need the use the optical out on ps3 for sound. or a ps2s av leads(red+white). i think. if you can get it to work without hdmi i would like to know how. zippy, glad that made you smile it was the best i could do with nfo i was given.

@handsom:

I'd pay extra for the PS3 if it came with anti-bong water technology.

Also tycobb, xyqo and anubis would appreciate that too.

You can edit news comments by going into the forums and going to the news comments section. The edit facilitty appears there.

handsom
bah the 360 has hardware problems this is a common FACT ,since they made alot of them its reasonable that only 1 or 2 came to your store.

With that said any Hardware troubles the 360 had will be fixed in the first revision so one can only play the "360 has buggy hardware" tune for so long.


Now then dose this mean th PS3 is pefect hel no bt it dose mean the 360 had one hell of a crappy start.


editing is a lovely thing
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/8/390964

creaky got me, i'm such a tool

Did anyone see what happened there?

nope

sammorris
the premaban?
a site spamer.

Oh really, fair enough. Suppose in a thread like this that's understandable. Not acceptable, but understandable.

sammorris
was not about the thread just site link spamage and o'creaky fried im up well ^0^
spam sandwich's for all!

@ZIppyDSM Well when you consider literally one non-functoning unit coming to your store, and that unit clearly not being doa at time of sale (Again, all jokes aside, bongwater+game system=broken game system), out of well over 250 unts moved just to satisfy initial pre-orders, yeah. I'd agree with you, but when you compare those numbers, that's wait, less than the statistical average of 3%. Which, by precedents of recent(Last ten years or so) is a very good record, that any hardware manufacturer should be proud of. The fact that some fanboys and a couple angry consumers voicing a defect only known in a small number of units, even at launch can hardly be blamed on the manufacturer. Again, the units that had defects were KNOWN to be completely doa. However, despite the number of places that the few victims and many anti-M$ gamers voiced the 'huge problem', it was also a known fact that the literal number of defective units was just literally just under 3%. That's not to say that those victims had to go through a whole world of fun waiting for more units to come in, but that's the case wth any console launch. In this case though, the number of victims was much smaller than before. This isn't praise for M$, this is praise for the industry, M$ isn't the only company putting more care in, it has become clear that Sony and Nintendo are being mre careful too. As an example for Sony, take the fact that they found defective parts, and rather than 'overlooking' them, and selling those unts, they are replacing and waiting for new parts. Quality control lke that is the reason the the number of doa's on initial shipments have been much lower.

handsom so why then if its so rare I know 3 friends all close 2 online and the one here has had to replace his system 3 times the others once each,and they all keep their system clean and in cool areas and such. But then random chance mmmmm bah I still feel that the 360 HD is buggy and that half the launch titles are buggier. Somehow I don't see 3% being reasonable unless you have soem nice hard info to back it up ,I am more comfy with 10-30 at the least...

I think he must have chanced upon a good area, I've heard too many stories about it for them all to be fake.

i am correcting an earlier post hddvds laser aint blue
sorry i thought it was

I'm pretty sure HD-DVD does use a blue laser.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/11/27/...er_tech_chosen/
I know that article's ancient, but the principle remains, surely?

I'm not doubting that you've heard of these. What I'm saying s that for every story you've heard, there are a lot of owners that you don't know about. Yeah, we always here about the broken ones, usually from multiple sources. But how many people B*tch and moan about working equipment. Most of these people are too busy actually usng the system. Yet another fact. In the first 24 hours of launch, roughly 60% of the systems that had been shipped were already online. Let's think about that. A lot of people don't even participate in online at all. Yet more than half of the units were being played visibly by gamers over xbox live. When more than half of the units are actually visibly online (Which is a record, btw. I'm not saying because it is M$, but because onlne gaming in general is becoming so much more popular) it becomes a lot harder to say that even a majority are broken. And, the number of active gold and silver members (That means 360 only) did not dwindle down, it only grew. Considering that the setup is done from your 360, it's a pretty clear picture of how many more units worked fine. Again, that's not to say that there weren't broken units. The trouble is, people with broken units are naturally going to be so much more vocal at launch time, than the people wth working ones. Not to mention the impending storm of rumors from fake 'victims' seeking either a rise from other users or a false sympathy. And as sad as that is, we all know it occurs more often than not. So ZIppyDSM and Sammoris, I'm not saying broken units didn't exist. But I am saying that proven facts indicate a gross exagguration spurred from the small percentage of unfortunate customers, and the much larger number of non-customers who just love to pretend. One other point; we also know that some of these units were purchased as gifts for christmas, which is interesting, because imagine the horror stories that would have flooded the net if little Johnnys and Tylers everywhere opened broken 360's for Christmas. While I'm sure we can all fnd one or two, if you really look at it, you would have heard an even bigger second uproar, not just from customers and 'customers' but from the media doing huge sob story specials right after Christmas... And you know the media would've absolutely JUMPED on it. I'm not calling anyone a liar, but it should be noted how many users have had absolutely perfect luck with the systems. When I took home my new unit, I didn't spend my first week telling everyone it worked and how functional it was, I was too busy trying everything out. I didn't even know my co-workers had obtained them over the first month, because they were suddenly very quiet when they got it. They just wanted to see everything it had. I'm hoping that this makes more sense on an agreeable level.

Yeah I can agree with that, I'm sure the working systems are by far in the majority. However, why were there so many more bitch stories this time than before? That has me genuinely perplexed.

More than before? A legitimate question. How many more users have better access to broadband connections to share their horror stories with you? And how many more people (thanks to broadband now being the standard in many American homes) are posting fake stories all over the internet about any current event or person? Comparing now to the launch of the PS2, how many more people now create entire elaborate rumors and sites claming that some (very living) celebrity is dead, n a tragic car accident? How many websites and threads have been flooded with "news" of osama bin laden's capture, swearing up and down that it was true? How many more posters are on the net, telling you their opinion on something they may or may not know about, unless you either have some way to verify or know them personally? The number of users has grown overall, and with it the amount of garbage on the net. When you assume that the number of users has grown that much, and that there are probably one or two users in a given united state that would actually consider taking time away from their precious new toy to tell the world that it works, compared to the hundreds of thousands more users who now exist since the last major console launch; it makes a lot of sense. BTW; when the PSP launched, despite it's being a portable, and not what I would deem a *true* console necessarily, does no one recall how many hundreds of thousands of dead pixel complaints there were? And that was found to be more than 60% of units. Not to mention the fact that many retailers refused to honor ther own in-store warrantees for this problem. I was one of them. I've still got mine from launch, dead pixels and all, still use it, Sony told me they wanted $70 to change out the LCD, because this was a standard occurence, and therefore did not merit 'defect'. What's up with that?

That is dire, but like I've said before, Sony's after-sales support is terrible, thankfully I've never had to use it. I actually don't buy much Sony stuff, because I don't think it's worth the premium. Sony are a bit like Mercedes-benz, they used to offer high quality products at possibly-justified high prices. Now they've started to cut corners to cut costs, and kept the prices the same. If I want something with a good reputation and quality and don't mind paying extra for that, I look to Panasonic, Toshiba, Sharp etc.

Shame Panasonic no longer manufactures consoles... I still have an operational 3DO. Those things were built to last, I was dissapointed that they never actually did the memory upgrade, I can only keep saves for about ten games at a time.

Thank you Sammorris for that wonderful link, I'm not sure if the recent layout change was throwing me off, or if it was just a blonde moment.

Yeah, oh I must apologise, I forgot NEC and LG! The image quality of LG Plasma TVs on show at my local stores is just mindboggling. I've also had an Excellent DVD writer from LG, and indeed from NEC. Our TV is a Sharp, and that's pretty good. Shame about the SD picture quality though.

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/8/390964

NEC had an interesting go at consoles as well. Look at the turbografx. That puppy outperformed anything the competition could muster by leaps and bounds at the time, and yet, it failed miserably.

What's up with that?

The better product does not always win. The better marketed product does.

yep the interview i was reading is a p**s take about the differences between blueray and hddvd, i thought it used a narrower bandwidth colour to get a more data on the disk, anyway now that i know its not serious it actualy quite a funny article in a tongue in cheek way.

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The better product does not always win. The better marketed product does.

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LOL that'll get you far mate, trust me.

handsom as always great well balanced posts ^^ you make me think and thats hard to do :P LOL therea a part of me that wants to say if the 360 realy had a full fail rate of 30% how the hell did they sale as many that first year with them having a low stock of them 0-o I had a Turbo Duo and I have to say the it was a great little machine in all 1 main thing hurt the Turbo and that price,it had enough quality games to go toe to toe with sega and Nin but sega and nin could spam cheap consoles everywhere 0_o.

im off topic here (for a change) but does aany1 think that both formats could be successful? like blueray for pcs, more storage space, and hddvd in standalone players, lower price, or am i dreaming again?

I really wouldn't like to call that one.

Price will be king here IMO. HD-DVD already offers a substantial jump in capacity and all at a far lower cost (at every point - players, drives and discs) that Blu-ray. It also appears HD-DVD drives will make it to the mass-market first (and again at a price well under Blu-ray's) I can see Blu-ray ending up a little like DAT. There are undoubtedly some interesting features and welcome capability but nothing especially unique (excepting a theoretical capacity jump I can't see meaning very much to the mass-market) and all at far too high a price. My bet is that it will just leave the mass-market cold. I wouldn't be surprised if it ends up a niche product for professional use only (or the preserve of the determined to be different crowd). The delay in the appearane of a games console really is neither here nor there in this. Neither the XBox add-on or the PS3 is going to be the critical element to this so-called 'format war', home cinema and the PC OEM fitment are, IMO. That's the only way High Def DVD makes enough mass-market sense.

I think they do. Over here, the PS3 will be £400, the HD-DVD drives are about the same sort of price and with the PS3 you get a free games console!

sammorris if PS3 is anything like PS2 quality-wise no one in their right mind would consider one as the High Def DVD player over a stand-alone decent quality machine. That's where this is just so detached from reality and immersed in fan-boy wishful thinking, PS3, a mere games machine, is not going to become the 'standard' High Def DVD player in most homes anymore than PS2 did with SD DVD.

@ZIppyDSM

30% fail rate? I said 3% did you mistype thator misread my post? I'm not sure. They sold a good quantity in the first year. Another important note; the 3% fail rate was only applicable to the first shipment, after that, it was fixed before more dead units were shipped from M$. The unfortunate problem with this, is that big brand retailers like Best Buy and Gamestop chose to hold some (a very small portion) units at their distribution centers, and not give them to the stores, so that they could slowly divide them out over time, simulating new shipments, when in fact, M$ hadn't sent them out in over a month. This apparently led to a lot of confusion, people thought M$ was sending out tons of tiny new shipments, when they hadn't shipped any in a long time.

I would imagine on the east coast, that this could have caused confusion with people who got broken units, thinking they were just shipped, when in fact, big retailers had simply been holding a few more.

As an example, we received 150 before opening night at our store. After that, we received from distribution, two more systems per week. Barely a trickle. But it made it seem like they still came in sometimes.

Yes, it was retarded.
Yes, it was deceitful.
Yes, it gave misconceptions to customers, who got false hope of a new unit.

Unfortunately, just remember that store empoyees have absolutely no degree of control in this matter. I remember getting constantly chewed out because new units weren't in yet, as though we had some control over it.

----------------------------------------

And on the topic of old failed systems.

Am I the only one who actually *liked* the Virtual Boy? It didn't give me headaches, and I rather enjoyed the different approach to 3D. I wonder if we'll ever start using static 3d again, it really makes a game feel like it's right THERE. (Same technology that used to power the 'Captain EO' video at Disneyland, lol. I wonder who remembers THAT!)

@ lard as lol sorry hughjas
when the ps2 came out you would pay £300 for a dvd player that had an opticle out and did DTS sound that was a major factor i me buying one. my ps2 was my only dvd player for nearly 3 years and i only got a stand alone 1 because it played DivX. i wouldnt class my self as a fan boy. right now iv got an xbox, ds, gcube, gba and ps1.

@ handsom
it was more than 3% in the uk
we didnt get the v-boy over here :(

handsom
I ment most of the stuff I have seen makes it seem like 20-30,altho I wonder if you add the bugy games that were not finished and just released if that made it appear to be more like 10ish% mmmmm ah well,the 360 in my eye is still poorly thought out.

Testing

Hughjas... You throw the term around "fan-boy" like it's only PS3 enthusiasts that are in this way of thinking... Yet you use such strong words supporting HD-DVD... And also state that the PS3 is and I quote a "mere games machine". I am sure that it is anything but mere. To me you sound like a "fan-boy" on the opposite end of the spectrum.

Fact: PS3 will have a HD optical drive included in the form of Blu-ray, XBox 360 does not...

So that definately adds to market appeal. Your statement about people not using it to play HD movies is rubbish. I am sure many will take the advantage of their PS3 by viewing HD via Blu-ray, that is until stand alone players drop in price enough to warrant purchase.

I agree with you about home cinema having the most impact in this soon to come format war, but to say consoles will have no effect is also a statement I feel is underestimating Sony's capacity to sell software. I mean come on... Go to your local store and compare the DVD section, then go look at the games software section. Aren't they similar in size?

I am curious though... You mentioned HD-DVD is cheaper in all areas (players, drives & discs). From what sources did you base that information? I'd like to research more myself.

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Hughjas... You throw the term around "fan-boy" like it's only PS3 enthusiasts that are in this way of thinking.

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Yet you use such strong words supporting HD-DVD.

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And also state that the PS3 is and I quote a "mere games machine". I am sure that it is anything but mere.

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To me you sound like a "fan-boy" on the opposite end of the spectrum.

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Fact: PS3 will have a HD optical drive included in the form of Blu-ray, XBox 360 does not.

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So that definately adds to market appeal.

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Your statement about people not using it to play HD movies is rubbish.

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I am sure many will take the advantage of their PS3 by viewing HD via Blu-ray, that is until stand alone players drop in price enough to warrant purchase.

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I agree with you about home cinema having the most impact in this soon to come format war, but to say consoles will have no effect is also a statement I feel is underestimating Sony's capacity to sell software.

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I am curious though... You mentioned HD-DVD is cheaper in all areas (players, drives & discs). From what sources did you base that information? I'd like to research more myself.

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Just to back that comment about Pioneer's new combi HD-DVD & Blu-ray burner up (it has been denied for ages); dated 1st Sept 2006 - [ex]Pioneer will follow up the release of its... er... pioneering Blu-ray Disc recorder with an updated model that supports dual-layer media, it has emerged. And the company said it is planning to offer a version that can also handle HD DVD.[/ex] [url]http://newsvac.newsforge.com/newsvac/06/09/01/1246238.shtml[/url]

hughjars richo and Pioneer makeing Dual drives eh? neat :3

Anything that sees folks covered and not left high and dry if one format folds or fossilises sounds like a good idea to me.

hughjars right now I see things going like this HD DVD will be hollywoods choice and BR will be sonys only choice for next gen gaming since they kinda stuck their foot out to soon,once BR gets 50GB + a disc and tis nice and stable and all they then can bring it out as a viable uber back up solution but by then HD DVD would have more or less the same GB,BR needs its GB jump asap and frankly they are losing steam.

hughjars, my PS2 is a perfectly competent DVD player. Bah humbug!
Handsom: The virtual boy, wow, I remember hearing about it (I don't remember it, itself) but it seemed a really cool concept.
Marsey99: I think I'm willing to side with you on that. Doesn't seem right to judge quality by region, but, well...
ZippyDSM: Not even I think the failure rate was that high!
Pihlis12: Ooh, hello! I don't remember seeing your name before! :-)
Ryu77: Well argued. The PS3 is by no means "a mere games machine". I don't own a DVD player, but I own a PC with a DVD Drive and a PS2. Until I recently got my 24" LCD monitor, my PS2 is what I used to watch DVDs. Most people don't have 24" LCD screens. PS2> DVD Player.

sammorris your to forgiveing :P

Hehe, flame and you get flamed back!

Sammorris mate if you honestly think your PS2 is a competent DVD machine then I think youy ought to get out more often. Seriously, they're really rubbish as a DVD player. (and believe me or not I've no intention of starting a flame war with you or anyone else over mere opinion and view......cost me cash money and that'd be different! :) )

Go on then, why is it rubbish? It works, it gives a good picture and sound quality, is fantastically easy to use, and has the ability to also be a games console. How's it rubbish?

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Go on then, why is it rubbish?

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It works

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it gives a good picture and sound quality

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is fantastically easy to use

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and has the ability to also be a games console.

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How's it rubbish?

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hughjars The PS2 is a decent DVD player is it the best no is it above mediocre maybe maybe not *L* Dose the PS2 have lens issues thought out more than half of its 14 revisions...hell ya 0-o

Zippy, I just thought it'd be rude to mention all those lens problems!

:lol:

Upscaling or not, you can't make something out of nothing. Not everyone needs a component or HDMI output, and besides my PS2 has one which cost me like £5. I have to disagree with the picture and sound quality, Mine is excellent through 100W Hifi speakers. I prefer DVDs on my PC with my new monitor, but the PS2 is definitely competent, and fine for most people's use. Competent, just not excellent.

hughjars I am not suprised the UK is a pain in arse for consoles the PS3 is one uping the region wars by having non regoining but I think they whole regioning thing since the SNES days have took thier toll on gameing in the UK and else where. BTW you are not the only unhappy gamer I have "kepted" up since the 16bit days,since 2000 games have spent to much time worshiping the graphics god and slacking on gameplay I am a fps and RPG nut and both have suffered from it,Quake 4 is a good example of bland level/weapon design that makes Quake 1 and 2 look new and innovative hell Duke3D and BLood are still the most innovative fps when it comes to weapons and level design...

Yeah I can agree with that, at least!

Well each to their own Sam.

I just think you can't beat a full-on home cinema set-up.

A big screen with full DTS or DD in 5.1.

The first 30mins of say 'Flight of the Phoenix' with the sound whacked right up rumbling the house down to the foundations
(blessed as I am by having older deaf neighbours both sides!), awesome!

Deaf neighbours???? You jammy so and so! Actually a chainsaw and woodchipper for cutting down a tree woke me up at 8:30 today so I got my own back. Not as much as I'd liked to have done though. Never mind. With a TV and LCD of the same size, I prefer the CRT with standard resolution DVDs else the picture quality isn't quite as good with the scaling.

S'funny loads of people on this and other forums often comment on gameplay being sacrificed for superficial looks.

Pity you don't seem to be able to have both.

.....and yes, whatever happens I hope there are people able to crack the regional and DRM coding cos that is just one massive and totally pointless pain that has to go.

BTW on the avforums there's a guy selling US spec HD-DVD machines with 7 HD-DVD movies for £430 with all duty & taxes paid!
Very tempting.

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With a TV and LCD of the same size, I prefer the CRT with standard resolution DVDs else the picture quality isn't quite as good with the scaling.

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Hmm, do I trust that? LOL
Not sure on the graphics/gameplay tie, I think Unreal Tournament 2004 comes quite close. Others beg to differ, but I enjoy it, and it looks good, and it doesn't need to much of a powerful PC to run, and it's over two years old! I hope 2007 carries on the tradition!

I think it's trustworthy, plenty of people there say they are happy and it's straight-up (I even think there's an extra if you mention a guy from the forums).

PC power?
Oh dear, that's one that's got me worried.
Have you seen the specs needed to play retail HD-DVD or Blu-ray on a PC?
You need, apparantly, a 64bit 4600 dual core or above (sorry I don't recall the Intel equivelent.....but their coreduo stuff is getting rave reviews).

The upgrade can't be put off too much longer I'm sorry to say.

I heard a 4200+ was the lowest one, and that's what I have. It sometimes runs 10% OCed anyway, so that makes it a 4600. ;-)
WMV playback is poor to be honest, I think H.264 may be better...

Here's a link to a test

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/2006/09/08/hd_ready_pc/

but it's also worth bearing in mind that a lot of the playback issues you might have (right now with d/loaded stuff) may well be all about codecs, which ones you use and how you configure your media player(s).

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AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ or higher, Turion 64 X2 TL-60 or higher

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Ha, right you are.

I'm making the most of my old AMD 2600xp+ Thoroughbred, it's creaking at the seams at times but with well set-up codecs etc it is up to the job, just.
It's been a fine piece of kit.

It'll never get anywhere near running the retail suff tho so a major change is looming.

Yeah my old XP 3000+ could get lots of work shifted on a good day. Goes all faint in the face of X2s and Core 2s though!

hughjars

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with full DTS or DD in 5.1.

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Actually yeah, I thought it did those too.

SOmehow I dont see how the new DVD formats will require so much power,and its not going to run on Vister 32? coem one they are padding the reqs they tend to do it with everything I can run a 486 off board band and tis min reqs are a 300Mhz CPU.

Somehow I dout the new formats will realy need it plus give it a year or 2 and free coders will make nice freeware codecs and players that wil require half the power the normal ones.

Hughjars... Excuse me for taking some time to post again.

I read your reply and I felt a balanced reply with some points validated whilst others I still strongly disagree with, but I guess that is what makes the World unique... We can't all have the same opinion, can we?

I scanned through some other posts... I did manage to catch the fact that you are into home cinema more than games. I too am into home cinema quite strongly. I'll give a brief outline of my set-up... (I wont mention brands as there are too many and they are not warranted in this forum category, but I will say I spent approx. $10,000)..

I have a Media Centre PC, with HD digital tuner, optical audio out, DVI out, ATI x700 graphics etc. etc. (more than enough to run home cinema).

My reciever has 4 input, 1 output ALL including... optical, coax, analog 5.1, component video, s-video, etc. etc. The main point is I can set up all my hardware devices to run through a seperate optical audio channel.

Speakers: 12 inch sub (150w RMS), 2 x Front (L/R) 240w each (consisting of 10inch woofer, 4inch midrange and a tweeter), Centre 60w, 2 x Surround (L/R) 40w each.

DVD player which upscales to 720p or 1080i (whether this makes a big difference or not I am not so sure). It also has HDMI out, although I can't use this yet as my TV does not support it. I use component video instead.

My TV is probably the only thing outdated as it is still tube driven (what?? haha)... Although it is an 80cm, and has component video in. To be honest it has brilliant colour and sharpness and for the time being I am happy (I mean it's only about 12 months old, it's just not a flat panel).

Ok now onto the point of my post... All my home theatre components are connected through component video and optical audio, including my PS2 (I bought a component cable)... So how can the quality be any less then a DVD player connected the exact same way?

I mean it certainly can't be a hardware issue as anything these days has more than enough power to run a DVD with no problem.

You mentioned DTS and Dolby 5.1... But when you are connecting through optical (or any other digital connection) the hardware is no longer decoding the audio, the reciever is! Anyway the PS2 does have an on board DTS and Dolby decoder, so I am not sure what your exact point is but to me the quality can't be any less than a stand alone DVD player.

I do tend to agree with you that a stand alone is better though. I mean it is more user friendly and much cheaper to replace/repair. Although!! When the PS2 first came out this wasn't the case and many were using it to play DVD's. The PS3 will probably go through a similar market transition... Now, my main point is we are talking about potential sales and market appeal TODAY... Not in 5 years.

Yes, the format war is a topic which requires future mindedness... And you have some very interesting views which has now made me more aware of the HD-DVD format potential. It will be an interesting journey and I am sure a long one... To see which format eventually takes the crown.

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I found a lot of the games looked slightly better than PS1 but not a lot and there was a weird washed-out pastle flat look to a lot of what I saw.

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Ryu77
a PS2 or any newer system can look off with ad cables or a damaged board,its uncommen it tends to work or it dose not *L*

huh?

Ryu77
just saying that if a cable is bad or a system is half damaged it can look off.

With all due respect... You can't be seriously trying to make a point here.

Any DVD player using standard AV cables or a damaged motherboard is going to look off also, if it isn't totally inoperative. Which to me makes your post completely redundant.

It's just like saying a Toyota can beat a Ferrari with a blown motor... I mean of course that's going to happen when all 800kw (could be exaggerated...lol) is blowing straight out the side of the block.

I don't know what to say but some of these posts are going so far off track that it's hard to even remember what the thread was initially for!... Which is "A DELAY IN THE PS3 RELEASE".

Ryu77
I know I know
hughjars said something about the PS2 not looking much better than the PSX,all I can come up with it a rare instance of bad cable or bad mobo.
if anything the PS2 is like the jump from Software based 3d to hardware based 3d for computers,there is jump between the PSX and PS2 mabye not as great from SNES or Sega CD to PSX.


SNES hop Sega CD leap Saturn/PSX skip N64 hop DC hop PS2 hop GC hop Xbox

SNES to Sega CD was a hop with CD you got more storage but the genisis was the liminting factor for its potential

the PSX and saturn are near even the PSX haveing better 3d the saturn haveing better 2d.

the n64 is a oddity had great 2d/3d but was llimited to carts and its sound system was not great not a leap or a hop just a tinkering with the tech of the time.

From N64 to DC theres a nice hop Solid sound,2d and 3d on a GD rom

DC to PS2 is not much of a improvement maybe a bit more power in 3d but in all not like the jump say from DC to Xbox

the GC and Xbox came out after the PS2 the GC has a bit more power than the PS2 but less than the Xbox,I feel it and the Xbox fought for 2nd place since the PS2 was pretty much dominate, Xbox havening the most power and potential but lacking the support needed to make it number 1 without a doubt, if sega kept to their quality of old and became a 2nd party to MS ,MS might have decimated the GC and fought the PS2 on equal footing,the reason I say this is the Xbox reminds me strongly of the DC the controller layout is a dead giveaway,if sega and MS teamed up proplery they might could have toppled the PS2.
And when I say proplery I mean by working on thier main titles Streets of rage,Phansty Star,SHining Force,Sonic ect,ect,ect.

altho I guess its best things have turned out how they have since sega cant make a game to save its life now...and I am still waiting on my Phansty Star Remakes >>

Sorry, I misunderstood your intention. I highly doubt he viewed one with any kind of fault but thank you for your alternate perspective. I agree with what you are saying to some degree but you still need to look at all areas in the right perspective. Of course the largest jump went between cartridge based consoles to optical media based consoles. I mean you're comparing restrictions of say 8mb up against 700mb (CD).

You feel that the XBox is the most powerful out of this generations console. To be honest I can't say I agree nor disagree on that one... But Sony won me for this round and I am almost definate they will have me for the next generation of consoles too.

Ok... But let's look at the PSX--->PS2 jump. I'm going to try to stick with easy to understand facts that almost everyone can understand. I mean the average console owner doesn't know about pixel pipelines etc. etc.

Would you say that when the PSX came out a lot of people were impressed with the FMV scenes? I would say a big yes!

Now of course this was much easier to do when you're suddenly using media 50 to 100 times the capacity of the previous gen (I know Sega had CD, and others like Neo-Geo, PC engine etc. but to be honest they nowhere near maximised the use if it's potential).

Now, the PS2's FMV had massive improvement over the PSX. It's like comparing VCD up against DVD. Again mainly due to a fairly large jump in media choice. 700mb (CD)--->4500mb (DVD).

On to sound, not a major improvement but some notable features. First of all a jump from 44.1khz to 48khz, second an addition of an optical out and also on board DTS and Dolby decoders.

Anyway I could go on and on... For those that can understand more advanced details, here's some specs from both machines. I would say it's more than a slight jump which is what I quoted from Hughjas...

PSX...
-Analog Joystick
-Controller
-Memory Card
-Link Cable
-Mouse with Pad
-RFU Adaptor
-Multitap Unit
-R3000A
-32 bit RISC processor
-Clock- 33.8688MHz
-Operating performance - 30 MIPS
-Instruction Cache - 4 KB
-Data Cache - 1 KB
-BUS - 132 MB/sec.
-Data Transfer Rate (DMA TO RAM) 150 KB/sec. (Normal) 300 KB/sec.(Double speed)
-Maximum Capacity - 660 Megabytes
-Features Audio CD play XA Interactive Audio
-Control Pad Two control pad connectors Expandable with multitap connector
-Backup RAM Two removable cards 128 KB Flash Memory OS support for File Save, Retrieve and Remove
-Serial Port I/O Link Cable Connectivity
-Main RAM: 2 Megabytes Video RAM: 1 Megabyte Sound RAM: 512 Kilobytes CD ROM buffer: 32 Kilobytes OS ROM: 512 Kilobytes
-24 Channels
-44.1KHz sample rate
-PCM audio source
-Digital effects include: Envelope Looping Digital Reverb
-Load up to 512K of sampled waveforms Supports MIDI Instruments

PS2...
-CPU: Emotion Engine 300MHz, 128-bit INT, 128-bit FP, 24KB L1, 16KB Scratch, 8KB VU0, 32KB VU1, 450 MIPS, 6.2 GFLOPS, 66M Vertices/Sec, 2.4 GB/s Internal, 1.2 GB/s Graphics, 3.2 GB/s Memory
-Graphics: Sony GS 150MHz, 1.2G Texels/Sec, 32-bit Color, 4MB (48 GB/s), 1.2 GB/sec Bus
-Sound: SPU2, 48 2D Voices, ADPCM, 2MB
-Data: 24MB (2.6 GB/s), 16MB (81 MB/s), 4.7GB Discs, Expansion 56K Modem Ethernet

(Source: www.emulator-zone.com)

Zippy: I'm not so sure, my system really struggles with 1080p WMV playback.
Ryu77: Indeed, and I have owned a Nintendo 64 and PS2, before that there were shared consoles with my brother, a NES, SNES, Mega Drive (Genesis as you rightly pointed out for the US folks) and PS1.
Ryu77: I don't think there's any weight in an argument that the PS2 wasn't a leap from the PS1.

Ryu77 matey no need to post up a spec sheet.

I'm sorry you find it so hard to believe but really from what I've seen of the PS2 left me enormously underwhelmed.

Maybe it was partly down to the earlier games but what I saw really wasn't such a great leap over PS1.
Maybe it got better in time but by then I was long past games consoles.

Sorry,
Just my view.

We all have different opinions, I do very much like the PS2. Its graphics are very outdated, but compared to the PS1 it's a lot better.

Ryu77
Uummmmm PSX to PS2 is 1 skip and 2 hops,the N64 had the hardware upgrade witch gave some nice efects,the DC was a upgraded N64 if you will,and the PS2 is upgraded even more from the DC,without looking at the N64 and the DC it is a leap,but when you take into count the uping of power in the consoles it was quite steady.

the Xbox has power that is a fact and with the HD that comes in every one it had potential but alas MS barely stayed in the fight becuse they simply didn't have the games,they've made a niche tho but compared to nintendo and sony I dont see how they are making a profit on it sicne it only dose well in the US.

hughjars
even with basic PS2 games like FF10 or Legaia 2, or any other 2nd year games they are beyond the PSX 0_o

I'll admit DOA looks crappy on the PS2 but meh they just didn't try and bring out the PS2 power :P

I dont know why I cant get into DOA mabye to many damn moves to remember..I like soul cab and street fighter mobtter...give me 4 or 6 power moves per character and I am a happy camper *L*

the PS2 has graphics akin to the 98-01 PC gaming area Unreal torny/champ 1 would run perfectly on it,Doom 3,UT03 and other top heavly games of 02 and beyond mabye not *L*

I hated the Xbox at first because it was a shrine to the blind graphical goddess devs have been mindlessly worshiping then a year ago it finally blossomed into something worth checking out the PS2 right now has a ton more games and some rather great like Dragon Quest 8 unlike the FFs that remake them selfs into crap every few years this is a solid old school RPG,my only complaint is the towns have bad house to people ratios but then this is not the frist 3D RPG to suffer from that.

It isn't all about the graphics! A game has to play well too!

sammorris
thats why the industry as a whole has took a dive,worshiping to much the hot looking blind graphical goddess...

I've always regarded the Unreal Engine to have a good graphics/gameplay balance. What games is it in other than UT2004?

sammorris
nearly every other game,UT04 is k weapons are still a bit weak compared to UT99 but at elat tis better than UT03 that has very nerfy weapons.

LOL nearly every other game... I wish!

sammorris
No I meant every other game was made with graphics in mind not coherent fun gameplay look at FFX,Manga carta and Quake 4 game paly is annoying(FFX),weak (Manga carta)or jsut fcked up by lack of level and weapon designs(Q4)

PS3 will flop because Porn won't be available on the blueray format for like another 10 years.

vgaddict8
it can play DVDs,thus is can play porn :P

NO!!! People want "blue-ray" porn!!!! It's suppose to make like 1 million movies on one disc!!! And The quality is suppose to be "super" good! The lack of Blue-ray porn will be sony's downfall! MARK MY WORDS!

vgaddict8
qauilty of normal HD/BR discs is well normal on normal TVs,if you have a 2 grand TV then mabye you will have better qauilty *L*

Well you get the idea...porn on blue-ray is a "key" factor in the success of blue-ray format as well as the ps3.

Quote:

---

The lack of Blue-ray porn will be sony's downfall! MARK MY WORDS!

---

A_Klingon
AHHH!!!!!
Go outsde!?!??! pepole are scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!
plus there are no nightclubs in hickville

Teh Internet is for Porn.

Teh internet?
Teh internets is 4 pr0n, my friend!

lol you guys are funny

but wtf does this have to do with the new ps3 lol

porn on blue-ray lol!!!

lmao

More to the point, why are you digging up a thread we last posted in more than a year ago?

Ya wow I got an email saying that this thread has been updated.