Originally posted by varnull:

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We have a moral obligation to stand up

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You need to lighten up. You're taking things too seriously.

They're just discs with movies or songs on them.

Are they needed to survive? No.
If you don't buy these products will you cease to exist? Absolutely not.
Are the companies forcing you to buy them? Heck no.

They're a source of entertainment, things you use to pass your free time. Nothing else.

Save your moralizing for the really important issues - like poverty, hunger, and the lack of adequate medical care...things that can really screw up someone's life. Not the shiny little discs with movies and songs on them.

Just because someone can't buy the latest BluRay gadgets and HDTV's doesn't mean he's being oppressed. It just means he'll have to watch the movie in 480i.

@ juankerr

globalisation and capitalism is the rot of this world. it allows the top 2% of the population to own 95% of the wealth of this world.

DRM embedded into blu-ray is anti consumer and because of stupid laws like the dmca gives the MPAA a licence to print money and region coding is their way of global price fixing. its anti consumer and should be fought at ever step to stop Orwellian, draconian laws from being passed.

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They're a source of entertainment, things you use to pass your free time. Nothing else

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An EXPENSIVE form of entertainment which people who know less will ask you for your advice on before buying.

Now you may have no personal integrity towards friends, relations and even somebody you see being mis-sold a product in a shop, but sorry for having a conscience.. I have.

As a member of the FSF I have taken a stance against closed and proprietary formats, this includes all forms of DRM and commercial lockin tactics. This isn't for my benefit (though there is a little kudos attached) it is for the future. As nobrainer correctly reminds people, monopolies are bad, and monopolies who control 100% of something globally are worse.
I'm sure Sony themselves would have ben happy to keep improving their technology in the face of competition by adding features and extras which the competition couldn't compete with. As it is now all that is left is for them to keep selling exactly the same product unchanged till the end of it's life whilst attempting to prolong that life by stifling any new technology that threatens that cushy comfortable secure monopoly.

Surprise here.. It isn't the anti globalisation anti monopolies and anti drm campaigners who are making a big issue over this.. it is the fanboys who can see no wrong in denying access to bought content, and a fair choice in the market place for everybody. An elitist attitude that you will do well to look back on as it all falls apart over the next 10 years.

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Originally posted by varnull:

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An EXPENSIVE form of entertainment which people who know less will ask you for your advice on before buying.
Now you may have no personal integrity towards friends, relations and even somebody you see being mis-sold a product in a shop, but sorry for having a conscience.. I have.

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I tell them bluntly - If you can't afford it then don't buy it. Don't go into debt just because you want the same toys as your neighbor. If you need a high def player to cost $99 or less and movies to cost $15 or less then you're not ready to get into this hobby. And yes it's just a hobby. It's a non-essential activity and the gadgets and machines are luxury items.

...and someone like you would be the last person I'd ask for advice on high-def media and technology.

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monopolies are bad, and monopolies who control 100% of something globally are worse.

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The only problem with that is that BluRay is not a monopoly. In fact, Panasonic owns most of the BluRay patent pool.

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I'm sure Sony themselves would have ben happy to keep improving their technology in the face of competition by adding features and extras which the competition couldn't compete with

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With the addition of BD-Live 2.0 to their upcoming players and to the PS3, Sony has already equalled what the competition (HD DVD) had to offer.

The competition now will be among:
>the player manufacturers - who can put in the most features for the best price.
>the movie studios - who can bring out the best releases.

Consider also: before HD media arrived regular DVD had a virtual monopoly on movie distribution after VHS was pushed out of the way. What did we see with DVD? Price drops on players as manufacturers competeted against each other PLUS price drops on discs as movies studios competed against each other.

Originally posted by juankerr:

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With the addition of BD-Live 2.0 to their upcoming players and to the PS3, Sony has already equalled what the competition (HD DVD) had to offer.

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Don't forget - with onboard DTS-HD MA decoding in the Denon DVD-3800BD, and coming in the PS3 (with the 2.3 update), the Panasonic DMP-BD50 and the Sony BD-S550 - BluRay has surpassed the competition.

No HD DVD player ever came out with onboard DTS-HD Master Audio decoding.

for the love of god what Competition.

HD-DVD is dead anyone with half a brain could tell you that.

there is no hi-def format for blu-ray to compete with, that means they already have 100% market, in there own Catagory of hi-def.

you act like blu-ray just supported DTS-HD MA from the very begining,
funny how it just came otta know where just recently.

if HD-DVD was still in active development, im sure they would have had something similiar to DTS-HD MA.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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for the love of god what Competition.

HD-DVD is dead anyone with half a brain could tell you that.

there is no hi-def format for blu-ray to compete with, that means they already have 100% market, in there own Catagory of hi-def.

you act like blu-ray just supported DTS-HD MA from the very begining,
funny how it just came otta know where just recently.

if HD-DVD was still in active development, im sure they would have had something similiar to DTS-HD MA.

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eatsushi was responding to varnull's statement that without competition there will be no improvement in the product.

Next time read the previous posts for a change then you'll know what people are talking about.

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Originally posted by error5:

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Originally posted by DXR88:

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for the love of god what Competition.

HD-DVD is dead anyone with half a brain could tell you that.

there is no hi-def format for blu-ray to compete with, that means they already have 100% market, in there own Catagory of hi-def.

you act like blu-ray just supported DTS-HD MA from the very begining,
funny how it just came otta know where just recently.

if HD-DVD was still in active development, im sure they would have had something similiar to DTS-HD MA.

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eatsushi was responding to varnull's statement that without competition there will be no improvement in the product.

Next time read the previous posts for a change then you'll know what people are talking about.

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Exactly. varnull asserted that without competition Bluray wasn't going to improve their product with new features. eatsushi pointed out that that this wasn't true given the fact that they're adding new features and extras not just to the PS3 but also to the standalones (such as DivX/DivX HD certification and playback ability in the Denons and the new Panasonic).

Originally posted by DXR88:

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They Have Spoketh, Varnull

On behalf of Varnull, is this not a news thread Are people not intitled to there view or opinion.

If you dont like the person's view of things then why respond just ignore it, it takes two to argue.

Unless your wierd and argue with yourself.

My final post on this thread

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What happened? I thought it was your final post.

If you did actually read my post as error5 correctly indicated that you are having trouble doing, you will see that I was asking varnull to not speak on behalf of everybody.

What I find completely amazing is any solid point that we relay gets completely ignored and instead you guys continue on with your endless anti Blu-ray rant. We rip anything you say to bits and as a retort you guys look for the tiniest little holes in what we say.

You want to know the truth, if you actually previously owned a HD-DVD player I would at least respect where you are coming from. This is why I respect goodswipe. A while back he was quite passionate about HD-DVD technology but at least he is mature enough to participate in conversations regarding Blu-ray without acting like a jealous little Child.

A true A/V enthusiast doesn't really care who manufactures the product as long is it is a high quality product that brings cutting edge entertainment into their homes.

I've already expressed my feelings to the Moderators of having a zero tolerance policy towards any posts that are of a negative or flaming nature. I sincerely hope this gets implemented in full force.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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for the love of god what Competition.

HD-DVD is dead anyone with half a brain could tell you that.

there is no hi-def format for blu-ray to compete with, that means they already have 100% market, in there own Catagory of hi-def.

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As I posted to you on page 3: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/648686/3942302

What was the alternative to DVD?

If anything, Blu-ray is faced with more competition today than DVD did in its inception. There are many other means of obtaining HD material like free to air DTV, digital Cable/Satellite TV and digital downloads etc. What did DVD have to compete with back when it was first introduced to the market? VHS, analog cable/free to air TV perhaps? I don't think this can be classified as viable competition.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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you act like blu-ray just supported DTS-HD MA from the very begining,
funny how it just came otta know where just recently.

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The way eatsushi spoke sounded nothing like it was supported from the very beginning. Actually, it was completely the other way around! His point was that varnull said that without competition that the Blu-ray format will not be improved any further, so eatsushi's point was that DTS-HD MA on board decoding is an "optional" feature that is currently being added to some Blu-ray players.

PS: varnull is female! I have noticed a few people calling varnull "him". If you look at varnull's profile you will notice female as the gender stated. Please excuse my off topic, personal details post.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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if HD-DVD was still in active development, im sure they would have had something similiar to DTS-HD MA.

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You make that sound like it's easy to develop a state of the art lossless codec, capable of replicating audio bit for bit identical to the studio original. Maybe HD-DVD would have had something like MP3-HD? LOL! Sorry, couldn't resist that one. DXR88, I honestly think that you are in over your head. You are talking amongst people that are very knowledgeable about the aforementioned A/V technologies. Please, if you are going to make points, at least give us a point of view that is worth talking about.

The truth of the matter is that if HD-DVD was still around they wouldn't be offering something "similar". They would be offering the same High Definition audio formats, which are Dolby TrueHD and/or DTS-HD (Master Audio/High Resolution Audio). Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD are the only two formats (apart from PCM 5.1) that are capable of delivering mind blowing HD audio. Dolby TrueHD is already supported on some players (including the PS3). DTS-HD MA is also already supported by the Denon DVD-3800BD. The PS3 (and other stand alones) will very soon have support for DTS-HD also.

Honestly, I don't mind opposing views. I actually welcome them. As long as they are educated, well researched and coming from an A/V enthusiast point of view. What this means is that there are no "fan boy" emotions or "hateful" annotations attached to their comments.

Look at error5's sig... You will see the type of person that I am referring to. He has both a HD-DVD and Blu-ray player, high end A/V equipment and more than enough titles (in both formats) to show that he is a "true" A/V enthusiast.

If something comes along that did truly rival Blu-ray as a format, I would welcome it with open arms.

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PS: varnull is female! I have noticed a few people calling varnull "him". If you look at varnull's profile you will notice female as the gender stated. Please excuse my off topic, personal details post.

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one would Hope so, and if i did call you a him varnull. just keep in mind my brain is like a 5-inch floppy diskette only 720KB.

Alright you win im done,

But before i let you off, do you know if there is any posability
That i can put my panisonic dmp-bd30k to use. its profile is 1.1

Shout or pm me i dont care.

Now truly my last post, me thinks.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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Alright you win im done,

But before i let you off, do you know if there is any posability
That i can put my panisonic dmp-bd30k to use. its profile is 1.1

Shout or pm me i dont care.

Now truly my last post, me thinks.

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So you do own a Blu-ray player?? Now that is confusing! When you say put it to use, what do you mean?

Well, instead of looking at it everynight thinking about how much you dislike it, why don't you try popping one of those shiny little BD discs into it.

Being profile 1.1 wont stop it from playing BD 2.0 titles, it just means that you wont have access to BD-Live.

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I did say me thinks,

Sigh, yeah i tried That i go to Play Movie and it just locks it self up.

Anything 2008ish it does it with sorry im not more specific,

not a help thread so shout when your done ranting.

Originally posted by DXR88:

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I did say me thinks,

Sigh, yeah i tried That i go to Play Movie and it just locks it self up.

Anything 2008ish it does it with sorry im not more specific,

not a help thread so shout when your done ranting.

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Drop the attitude! Ok, my response to you was more than fair. Of course I am confused about your your position here. You do nothing but knock Sony and Blu-ray and now you want help.

Now you claim that I should PM you because it's not a help thread. Well, what sort of thread is it? I think we've already long ago diverted away from the original topic, with no effort from yourself up until now to bring it back to topic.

The fact that I even offered some level of help is more than I should of even done. I'm starting to ask myself if you do actually own that player or if you're just trying to prove some kind of anti Blu-ray point? I find it impossisible to believe that every movie you attempt to play locks up! Did you try a firmware upgrade? So yes, now please do go away.

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Now you claim that I should PM you because it's not a help thread. Well, what sort of thread is it? I think we've already long ago diverted away from the original topic, with no effort from yourself up until now to bring it back to topic.

The fact that I even offered some level of help is more than I should of even done. I'm starting to ask myself if you do actually own that player or if you're just trying to prove some kind of anti Blu-ray point?

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Sounds suspicious doesn't it, Ryu77?

I myself find it extremely difficult to believe that someone who posted this last week now actually owns a BluRay player, let alone the $500 Panny BD30:

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/647110#3918264

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US has most Blu-ray awareness

DXR88
Member
3. April 2008 @ 20:08
Mwhahahahahaha. Im aware That its a disk format,Doesnt Mean i give A Rats 4$$ about it. Now do the Same survey and ask People do they Care.

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Lol yeah for one that goes thru the thread too pick out things that support His/Her idea of this guy bluffing.

tell you what Error5 butt out sorry, but i wasn't talking to you

yeah yeah its a pulic thread thats why i wanted to pm ryu, but instead id thought save a little time for myself by posting it here.

But i can see that was a mistake...

anyway Ryu sorry to bother you about this. i beleave it maybe hardware related anyway, been googletering it like crazer and nothing tells me its an isolated issue.

but all i do is nock sony, huh. yeah let me tell you im 1000.00% anti-sony yep thats right let me tell you

ive owned every playstation console, even the ps3 till it started munching my discs.

iv got a sony trinton monitor that im typing this message through,

hell i even have a sony dvd/vcr combo, even had an old sony vio desktop.

but im 1000.00% anti-sony and yes i have an attitude now

you know what i dont want your help you can keep it. im thinking about buying the gun medal PS3 anyway

Originally posted by DXR88:

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but all i do is nock sony, huh. yeah let me tell you im 1000.00% anti-sony yep thats right let me tell you

ive owned every playstation console, even the ps3 till it started munching my discs.

iv got a sony trinton monitor that im typing this message through,

hell i even have a sony dvd/vcr combo, even had an old sony vio desktop.

but im 1000.00% anti-sony and yes i have an attitude now

you know what i dont want your help you can keep it. im thinking about buying the gun medal PS3 anyway

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I can not follow you at all. One minute you say you don't care about anything to do with Blu-ray, the next minute you're looking for help on a Blu-ray player which is more than likely fictional.

In that thread that error5 linked to you state that you are only interested in gaming. Now you also back that up futher by saying you've owned every Playstation console, including a PS3 and you are looking at getting the Limited Edition Gun Metal PS3. Are you not aware that PS3 games are pressed on Blu-ray discs? So doesn't that mean that Blu-ray as an optical disc format (not as a movie format) is needed in order for you to enjoy the games on the PS3? Wouldn't it be in your best interest for Blu-ray as a format to develop? This means increased revenue for the BDA. This will result in more money spent on R & D, which will effectively lower manufacturing costs. This will funnel down to us as the consumer in these ways... 1) Less expensive games & movies. 2) More titles to choose from. 3) Lower hardware prices. 4) Enhancements in the Blu-ray technology across the entire hardware/software range.

Believe me, you wont be getting any help from me from now on. There are many others here at AfterDawn that value my help immensely (see my sig for links). I am not going to waste my time offering help to someone that replies with Childish banter.

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Ryu77;

Through no fault of your own, and despite your best efforts, and those of others, this thread has degenerated into a foolish soap-opera-like mess, the end of which seems nowhere in sight.

At your discretion, I will close this thread - it's going nowhere. Don't know if that will help -- similar threads always seem to crop up like weeds elsewhere, but at least it would be a start.

I'll give you the final say on this. (Your choice).

-- A_K --

Originally posted by A_Klingon:

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Ryu77;

Through no fault of your own, and despite your best efforts, and those of others, this thread has degenerated into a foolish soap-opera-like mess, the end of which seems nowhere in sight.

At your discretion, I will close this thread - it's going nowhere. Don't know if that will help -- similar threads always seem to crop up like weeds elsewhere, but at least it would be a start.

I'll give you the final say on this. (Your choice).

-- A_K --

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Yes, these threads often do turn into a soap opera like mess (great analogy).

To be completely honest as I mentioned earlier on in this thread, what I would like to see is a zero tolerance policy towards any negativity or Childish behaviour posted on any news articles. Anyone that gets out of control, no warning... Just instant suspension. Consistent offenders should get banned permanently. Maybe a 3 strike system...? 1st offence: 1 week suspension, 2nd offence: 1 month suspension, 3rd offence: Bye bye!

I know it sounds harsh but how else can these news articles function as intended without such a system in place?

Of course this isn't just for those against the PS3 & Blu-ray etc. I am referring to anything of that nature. If a PS3 Fan Boy/Girl (for lack of a better word) jumps on a XBox news thread and starts ranting away about how crappy the XBox is and how the PS3 is the greatest thing in the World, then the same goes. It's not conducive to positive conversation relating to the news article and as such has no place being there.

I was speaking to LOCOENG a little while back (just before hughjars got the can) and he gave me the impression that a zero tolerance policy was going to be put into place. I truly wish this could be followed up as I thought it would be.

Please understand that I am in no way saying we must all be like timid little Animals, never speaking our mind. Opposing views are always welcome, provided that they are delivered in a mature & respectful way.

It's not up to any of us to decide if a news article is worthy or not (as varnull suggested that all Sony articles are not worthy of news). That choice is and always will be that of AfterDawn staff. It would be a shame to see news articles closed just because people can't be mature enough to have respectful conversations amongst each other. If you don't agree with what the news article is saying... It's simple! Don't participate in any conversation regarding the topic at hand. Is it really that hard? Do we not have enough self control to stop ourselves from posting demeaning comments?

Why all the hatred (I don't even like using that word)? Why the anguish? Can't we all just be friends and get along? We all joined here because we have something in common. We all have a passion for one or all of the following; PC's, gaming, movies, music etc. etc. This site was developed so we could get the most out of what we love. Can we now please carry on and be free to do that, without being judged upon if our opinion is different to someone elses?

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It would be a shame to see news articles closed just because people can't be mature enough to have respectful conversations amongst each other

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every now and then i open a thread with some buds a NON flaming NON flanboy console/brand argument thread, we list all the facts, state cases where hardware/consoles have failed, its actually quite nice to have a peaceful discussion about which brand or console you want or like and why, you learn quite a bit........but then the n00bs shank us till we bleed and we end up leaving the thread because its just about non-nonsensical ranting and arguments about "yo momma"

-tripplite

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Yes tripplite, which is exactly why I suggested the zero tolerance policy. To be honest, I almost always see you posting in a good manner. I find some of the things you say quite entertaining. You seem to have a happy nature.

The way I see it when a thread spirals out of control, there are two options. 1) Close the thread. 2) Remove the person/people responsible for the mess.

I think option 2 is surely the best way to go as that deals with the problem at its source.

On that note, let's leave it at that. Hopefully now this thread can get back to topic and remain open for related discussion.

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Heh, whatever u Say ryu77.

Im done Posting here it has been somewhat dissapointing Experince.

RYU:

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Can't we all just be friends and get along?

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.. You are the Rodney King of Afterdawn.com
Except for the looting and stuff..

Your help and expertise is a major factor in why I visit this site.
If someone had a "bad experience" they should move on as it is more than likely their fault.

LOve 4 EVA:

Hunt720 ;-)

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Yes tripplite, which is exactly why I suggested the zero tolerance policy. To be honest, I almost always see you posting in a good manner. I find some of the things you say quite entertaining. You seem to have a happy nature.

The way I see it when a thread spirals out of control, there are two options. 1) Close the thread. 2) Remove the person/people responsible for the mess.

I think option 2 is surely the best way to go as that deals with the problem at its source.

On that note, let's leave it at that. Hopefully now this thread can get back to topic and remain open for related discussion.

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a zero tolerance on negative opinions eh, if that's the case you may as well just turn afterdawn into a huge advertising board for all the tech companies so all the BAD points to the hardware/software can be covertly hidden from the public's eye.

constant fanboyism should not be tolerated i fully agree, but a negative opinion does not constitute "fanboy" behaviour.

fanboy definition from urban dictionary

Originally posted by link:

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2.
1. A person who is completely loyal to a game or company reguardless of if they suck or not.
2. A pathetic insult often used by fanboys themselves to try and put down people who don't like whatever it is they like.
3. See fool or SEGA.
"If you don't worship SEGA and send them all your money and pay $500 for the copy of Panzer Dragon I'm selling on ebay then your obviously a Sony fanboy even though I've never heard you mention a single thing about Sony the entire five minutes I've known you." Said the SEGA Fanboy.

"Yeah but the SNES didn't have Blast Processing" Said the Sega fanboy.

"FF7 sucks" Said the SEGA Saturn fanboy.

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defending a company that utilises anti-consumer behaviour without accepting the fact and trying to play it down or conceal the fact, could also be considered fanboy behaviour, could it not!

as i already stated negative opinions do not equate to the behaviour you are describing Ryu77, only on the official forums like m$ and sony is that considered simply to stop the spread of the truth and not damage potential sales. as far as i'm aware afterdawn is not generating revenue from sony, m$, nitendo, philips, toshiba, amstrad, ect, and hopefully never will be at the whim of the revenue chain being pulled by a corporation like what happened to Gamespot and Jeff Gerstmann.

And as you have clearly stated yourself "It's simple! Don't participate in any conversation regarding the topic at hand" why answer comments you do not agree with?

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"Zero Tolerance" in this case is pretty hard to maintain. Outright name-calling, deliberate flames and four-letter words etc. for example, are much easier to deal with. You get suspended for those.

The nonsense we see here is far more "grey" in nature. I try to be tolerant as do all the mods, but in this case I see a few making it very difficult for the many. I'm sorry guys, it's unfortunate but often the case.

I think this thread has gone far enough. Please feel free to begin another similar one if you'd like and we'll take it from there.

-- A_K --

Real quick....Some are lucky you addressed this Klingon and closed it before I got to it again. I was about to hand out some time off.

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