Sony and Discovery team up for Blu-ray promotion

Just 1 free disc ? Cheapos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse

When Varnull shows (up) , the fun begins !!!

They can't do anything right can they?

"BluRay's prices are too high - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay's prices are dropping - IT's DOOOMED."

"BluRay isn't giving away freebies - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay is giving away only one freebie - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay is giving away ten freebies - IT's DOOOMED."


There's a universal truth that you all should realize:

There's always someone else who makes more money than you...

...and guess what - he doesn't care.

Originally posted by Toshibot:

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They can't do anything right can they?

"BluRay's prices are too high - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay's prices are dropping - IT's DOOOMED."

"BluRay isn't giving away freebies - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay is giving away only one freebie - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay is giving away ten freebies - IT's DOOOMED."


There's a universal truth that you all should realize:

There's always someone else who makes more money than you...

...and guess what - he doesn't care.

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Just LMAO !!!

I just decided to save finger work ;)

you like the linkies?

BTW..I don't mind yez calling me Jan. tis me name.. arrrrrrr.. I be pirates....

Me likee your linkies Varnull !!!

Very Much !


Thanks Jan !

Originally posted by Toshibot:

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They can't do anything right can they?

"BluRay's prices are too high - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay's prices are dropping - IT's DOOOMED."

"BluRay isn't giving away freebies - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay is giving away only one freebie - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay is giving away ten freebies - IT's DOOOMED."


There's a universal truth that you all should realize:

There's always someone else who makes more money than you...

...and guess what - he doesn't care.

---

ha ha well said.... just be careful.. you are starting to anger bitter HD-DVD adopters.

that's the first time I have ever agreed with you..

so drm is bad?

Ah, damage control from the masters of illusion Sony.

And this come one day after this hit the net.



http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/2072...e-in-september/

Blu-Ray hits the skids, numbers continue to decline

Quote:

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One of the driving forces behind Sony's plan for the PS3, Blu-Ray, is showing signs of decline.

Blu-Ray hits the skids,

Is this a bad sign?

The cause could be a variety of factors, from the failing economy to the summer gaming doldrums, but the effect is clear: Blu-Ray as a media format is in decline.

The news has to be worrisome for Sony, whose PlayStation 3 console has the Blu-Ray disc format as a cornerstone of its strategy to get a multi-purpose gaming and media hub into homes the world over.

In response to the sluggish sales, Sony even went so far as to drastically slash its Blu-Ray player prices to the magic $200 mark, a la Microsoft with the Xbox 360, with other models going for as low as $250 as of this writing. Tech blog Engadget called the new price points "unquestionably delectable," but another observer at the Industry Standard said the cuts and a number of other indicators betray the fact that conditions may not be so rosy.

For example, in the latest Wired magazine, Sony and Microsoft went so far as to include a free Blu-Ray disc, the seven part film noir flick Coma, as part of a full page insert.

"I don't know how much this is costing Sony and its partners, but it can't be cheap -- Wired's paid circulation is 706,494, and this press release indicates that other magazines may be involved," wrote Industry Standard writer Ian Lamont.

Sony is betting the price cuts (and the PS3) will bolster Blu-Ray in time for the winter holiday, but Lamont is wary--especially as more and more consumers turn to the Internet and services like iTunes for their HD content.

"Sony better hope that mainstream consumers feel the same way [about the price cuts], or the company risks another weak Christmas for Blu-ray this year -- and losing out in an even bigger way when consumers begin to turn to the Internet for their HD content," he said.

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Stupid format built around DRM with the ability to change media into a huge licensing rip off via online authentication, just like Sony's PSN WarHawk and their SecuROM DRM on Spore, BioShock, MassEffect, Ect.

Do you check under your bed to make sure the Sony Monster isn't under there? DRM must be good for Blu-Ray cause every movie I put in my Blu-Ray player looks and sounds Brilliant on my HDTV and Surround Sound. Is DRM causing you problems with your Blu-Ray Player nobrainer? You consistently Whine about it but it seams that you don't even own it.

And we don't car....re --John Lydon

Take you Sony fanboy crap elsewhere.. THEY lost our trust and favour long ago.. funny thing is trust.

Originally posted by Toshibot:

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They can't do anything right can they?

"BluRay's prices are too high - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay's prices are dropping - IT's DOOOMED."

"BluRay isn't giving away freebies - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay is giving away only one freebie - IT's DOOOMED."
"BluRay is giving away ten freebies - IT's DOOOMED."


There's a universal truth that you all should realize:

There's always someone else who makes more money than you...

...and guess what - he doesn't care.

---

Exactly. Some people will ALWAYS find something to complain about. Blu-ray offers great value for money. I get 1080p image, awesome audio (some up to DD 7.1) and extras I could only dream of on DVD.

Quote:

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Ah, damage control from the masters of illusion Sony.

And this come one day after this hit the net.



http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/2072...e-in-september/

Stupid format built around DRM with the ability to change media into a huge licensing rip off via online authentication, just like Sony's PSN WarHawk and their SecuROM DRM on Spore, BioShock, MassEffect, Ect.

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Sounds more like YOU are the master of illusion. DRM doesn't prevent me from enjoying my blu-ray movies. The only people who complain about the DRM on blu-ray are cheap bastards who want to copy movies for free instead of buying them.

The facts are:
- Blu-ray specs are great! Among the current digital media it offers the best audio/visual experience, especially now that HDDVD is defunct. How does DRM hamper your viewing pleasure? Please enlighten us
- Securom =/= blu-ray. This has nothing to do with the current discussion and if you MUST drag it in here, the choice of the limitations forced on users for Spore, Bioshock and MassEffect was not Sony's but EA's. Go bark up that tree if it bothers you so much

While you guys continue to whine like little babies, I'm buying new blu-rays every month (some as low as less than 10 euros per movie) and enjoy watching said movies on my HDTV in my comfy sofa ... it's even better than going to the movie theater.

So by all means, those that want to stay in the stone age can stay there. I'm happy to move on to something bigger and better, DRM or not.

Nielson and others believe differently...I think most (including I) will "trust" in them more so than just random forum posters.

Quote:

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Nielson ~

It seems Blu Ray has gained steam from the release of Transformers. Blu-Ray media captured 12% of the market share of discs for the week ending 7th September, 2008. The weekly Blu-Ray sales went up by 16% compared to a 37% fall of DVD discs.

Source 1 Source 2

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So lets do some math here as the article posted by 13thHouR states "numbers continue to decline" (in which is off topic as usual for some reason ;)

"Continue" is the operative word here

The week to 7th of September saw a RISE of 16+ % ... So if BD sales rise because of the transformers release and in the next week it goes back down to normal levels people now call that "continues to decline"

I call BS. Amazing how certain people don't look at the OVERALL picture of the DOCUMENTED INCREASE OF BD SALES YEAR OVER YEAR and love to focus on one thing just support a biased view for some reason?

Anyway on to more credible information and proof...

Quote:

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DisplaySearch, the research firm, says worldwide sales of standalone Blu-ray players will hit 2.38 million this year, compared to 700,000 in 2007.....

The DisplaySearch numbers do not include sales of PlayStation 3 consoles, which also include the high-def Blu-ray player inside. With PS3 included, Blu-ray player sales will reach several million in 2008.

The research firm also said standalone Blu-ray player sales worldwide will double next year to 5.31 million. DisplaySearch credits the increase in sales to falling prices, the release of more Blu-ray titles and more purchases of high-def sets.

According to Video Business, Paul Gagnon, DisplaySearch's director of North America TV research, said standalone players will surpass the PS3 as the biggest selling Blu-ray player by 2010.

DisplaySearch released its forecast at yesterday's DisplaySearch "HDTV 2008" conference in Los Angeles.

Source

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Lots of great information so far huh? So what's up next! One of my favorites

Quote:

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DVD will fail? Sounds a lot like Blu-ray

1. Consumers aren't willing to rebuy movies

They will be the same tired movies that everyone already owns and will be loathe to buy again. [...] Because the titles available will be ones that people already own, they will naturally sell less than a new release that is still hot from the theaters. This will result in even a bigger cost for companies because the less they sell, the more each feature costs to implement on each title.

Right. Just like nobody repurchased their albums on CD or VHS tapes on DVD. This one seems to get dragged out for every new format and is quickly ignored once it takes off. We're not saying that people will rush to replace their DVDs with Blu-ray discs, but it seems obvious consumers eventually give in and repurchase media if the new format is worthwhile. The only difference we'd note is that well-kept DVDs don't deteriorate after use like VHS tapes did, so perhaps consumers will be somewhat less likely to replace their DVDs that still look as good as the day they bought them.

Verdict: Same argument now used against Blu-ray.

2. Not enough movies

All the companies involved with DVD are promising a catalog of 250 titles at the launch with maybe 50 to 100 actually available in the stores in the beginning. [...] And even if they do manage to finish 250 movies in time for the launch, what will those movies be? Top Gun? Rocky?

When any type of new format launches, early adopters are stuck with a pretty limited initial selection. It happened with DVD, and it happened with Blu-ray, which still only has about 650 titles available two years after its release. And we're seeing it all over again with criticism of the selection on online movie services, such as iTunes, Vudu, and the Netflix Player. This argument seems pretty shortsighted overall--if a new format offers a new compelling experience, the content will follow.

Verdict: Same argument now used against Blu-ray.

3. Can't record

Consumers will look at DVD and see that it doesn't record. That will instantly arouse suspicions in their mind that if the movies they want to watch are not available on the DVD discs, then the machine will be useless to them and a waste of money.

DVD recorders are old technology now, but when DVD first came out one of the knocks against it was that it didn't record like VHS--which was a killer feature before DVRs became ubiquitous. Blu-ray recorders are available now in Japan, but we haven't seen any signs of them coming to the U.S. in the near future. But the real issue is that Blu-ray recording just doesn't matter as much with high-def DVRs and so many TV series being released on high-quality DVD and Blu-ray sets.

Verdict: Same argument now used against Blu-ray, but less people care.

4. Nobody cares about special features

Another question is, how many consumers actually want and use all the special features that DVD might offer? CD players offer all kinds of special programming and playback options, yet most people never touch these features. A cheap VCR is seen as too intimidating to most Americans. They just want to watch the movie, not select different versions, languages, and such. The LD market has proven that these extra features are desired, but only by a small segment of the population.

This point has been made about Blu-ray right here on CNET, in Executive Editor David Carnoy's Fully Equipped column. While I tend to agree that special features aren't a big draw for DVD or Blu-ray, it tends to be the icing on the cake, rather than the main draw of the format. DVD didn't succeed because of special features--and neither will Blu-ray--but they're a nice extra.

Verdict: Same argument now used against Blu-ray.

5. Picture quality isn't that much better

And now we get into the most controversial aspect of the entire DVD debate. Picture quality, or the lack there of. When DVD was first announced, it was claimed to offer D1 Master Tape quality. A short while later, the companies said it was much better than VHS but worse than LD. Now they have swung the other way again and are claiming D1 quality again. Quite simply, this will be impossible on commercially prepared, feature-length films.

It seems insane to argue that DVD isn't a huge leap over VHS in terms of image quality, but it's less crazy than you think. It takes content makers a while to fully understand how to use new technology, which is why many first-run CDs and DVDs are surprisingly mediocre. The same thing happened with Blu-ray--anyone who saw the first version of The Fifth Element on Blu-ray can attest to that. But now that we've seen a steady flow of exceptional looking Blu-ray discs, it's going to be harder to find people who aren't impressed by the image quality of Blu-ray on a big-screen HDTV.

Verdict: Same argument now used against Blu-ray.

6. The industry is just greedy

DVD is just a bad idea. It is being forced upon a uncaring and unwanted public and is an inferior product that simply isn't needed or desired. DVD exists only for one reason. Greed. Motion picture studios are always looking for a way to sell the same stuff over and over again and they think DVD is the answer.

More cynical observers might characterize Blu-ray as just the industry's latest attempt to make money on the same movies yet again. But the industry didn't introduce DVD out of the kindness of its heart--it did it to make money--and few people look back on successful formats like DVD and CD as a devious scheme by motion picture studios.

Verdict: Same argument now used against Blu-ray.

So, since the same arguments that didn't matter with DVD are now being used against Blu-ray, does that mean Blu-ray is destined to be as successful as DVD? Not quite. The simple fact is that Blu-ray's main draw is that it offers significantly better image quality than DVD, and whether consumers think that's a worthwhile upgrade will make or break the format. All the other arguments essentially don't matter, just like they didn't with DVD.

Source

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Here is a very good repost I came across from someone else that I do not take credit for referencing the quicker adoption of BD over DVD

Quote:

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Blu-ray is still being adopted at a faster rate than DVD was when it first released.

That's a fact no one can deny.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technolog...963707920080609
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthrea...936&mode=linear
http://forum.dvdtalk.com/hd-talk/537346-...d-adoption.html
http://www.highdefforum.com/showthread.php?t=73840&mode=linear
http://www.omgili.com/newsgroups/alt/vid...ed+DVD+adoption
http://www.avrevforum.com/showthread.php?t=2095

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I can't wait to see what will happen when Iron Man and ESPECIALLY The Dark Knight are released on Blu Ray...will it be doom and gloom for BD again then? I highly doubt it. But we all know there will be just a few forum posters who will stand on their little soap box to make some sort of stink! ;) Just as what the PS2 did for DVD the PS3, HD sources, HDTV's & Digital in general will do the same for BD.

Now I am not at all saying BD will be as big as DVD, I honestly don't think it can or will. But they will both definitely be on the market and make profit and be profitable for ALL companies involved, remember this isn't a "SONY" thing people, no matter what you always say about me...:rolls eyes:.

Which brings me to a quick very important little point, if you continue to insult a moderator don't be surprised & complain when action is taken.

Lastly people forget about the world wide economy and how it affects this topic (and everything else for that matter) in different ways. There are MANY places that just will not adopt or be able to afford BD as of right now and the current sales of EVERYTHING are down, not just Blu Ray discs.

oddly under my real name I get a damn sight more google hits than you ;)

I have been keeping off the sony bashing because they are just another restrictive big business bunch of scumbags, and they really ain't worth the effort.. Riots at the G8 and all the other "anti globalisation" rallies make my case for me.

Whatever.. if you like it buy it.. just remember what they really want to do is RENT it to you.

^
Let the "Sony Bashers" backpeddling begin. It looks like the race is off to a good start.

Oner, you make some excellent points. I wish you would comment more often and put some of these forum members in check. Some of them are on their way to becoming troller and flame starters.

</OT>

A good strategy by these companies to get some of the fence sitters to go bluray.

Originally posted by Oner:

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Amazing how certain people don't look at the OVERALL picture of the DOCUMENTED INCREASE OF BD SALES YEAR OVER YEAR and love to focus on one thing just support a biased view for some reason?

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Excellent post Oner. Well-argued and well-defended by numbers (unlike the article in question).

The year over year numbers are indeed the yardstick. Just compare the revenue from the 1st half of 2007 and that from the 1st half of 2008 - the slowest buying season for media:

http://www.tvpredictions.com/blu071408.htm

Quote:

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Consumers have spent $194 million on Blu-ray high-def discs in the first six months of 2008 -- a 350 percent over sales of both Blu-ray and HD DVD titles in the first six months of last year.

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So sales have increased by 350 percent over last year and they still consider it as "continuing to decline."

My college professor would have been all over his arguments and would have given him a failing grade. Just poor journalism unsupported by facts and numbers.

Originally posted by oner:

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Nielson and others believe differently...I think most (including I) will "trust" in them more so than just random forum posters.

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that random forum poster happens to be Ian Lamont managing editor of the The Industry Standard

Originally posted by oner:

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Quote:

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Nielson ~
It seems Blu Ray has gained steam from the release of Transformers. Blu-Ray media captured 12% of the market share of discs for the week ending 7th September, 2008. The weekly Blu-Ray sales went up by 16% compared to a 37% fall of DVD discs.

Source 1 Source 2

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So lets do some math here as the article posted by 13thHouR states "numbers continue to decline" (in which is off topic as usual for some reason ;)

"Continue" is the operative word here

The week to 7th of September saw a RISE of 16+ % ... So if BD sales rise because of the transformers release and in the next week it goes back down to normal levels people now call that "continues to decline"

I call BS. Amazing how certain people don't look at the OVERALL picture of the DOCUMENTED INCREASE OF BD SALES YEAR OVER YEAR and love to focus on one thing just support a biased view for some reason?

---

16% of 1 = ????? percentages are pointless as you know what, i made a 10,000% profit a fishing rod i purchased it cost me £0.01 and i sold it for £100 WOW check out those big numbers, you know, i could even put a pie, or bar chart in their for the real stupid ppl.

please don't shout its very rude. please stop trying your hardest to discredit myself, posing information that contradicts is not an issue but SHOUTING AND RED is not very nice.

Engadget you've gotta be kidding me. try to pick a reputable source, not some tech site that accepts Advertising revenue and starting heavily editing all negative microsoft, apple and sony posts from their stories.

Anyway the relevance to my post was that as per usual bad news hits the bloggersphere about sony, and sony try to come back with a never been heard of before new promotion or features of some sorts, and this is just what this Blu-ray promotion is. Its a smoke screen, just as their life with playstation came a day after the sony movie download service gaining notoriety for its restrictive DRM that turns your purchases into nothing more than long term rentals. PlayStation Video Store Hampered by DRM

Originally posted by oner:

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Anyway on to more credible information and proof...

Quote:

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DisplaySearch, the research firm, says worldwide sales of standalone Blu-ray players will hit 2.38 million this year, compared to 700,000 in 2007.....

The DisplaySearch numbers do not include sales of PlayStation 3 consoles, which also include the high-def Blu-ray player inside. With PS3 included, Blu-ray player sales will reach several million in 2008.

The research firm also said standalone Blu-ray player sales worldwide will double next year to 5.31 million. DisplaySearch credits the increase in sales to falling prices, the release of more Blu-ray titles and more purchases of high-def sets.

According to Video Business, Paul Gagnon, DisplaySearch's director of North America TV research, said standalone players will surpass the PS3 as the biggest selling Blu-ray player by 2010.

DisplaySearch released its forecast at yesterday's DisplaySearch "HDTV 2008" conference in Los Angeles.

Source

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Lots of great information so far huh? So what's up next! One of my favorites

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all complete conjecture and speculation, you know what i see the sales of 8tracks explode throughout the globe and become the format of the future, which is just as retarded, but point proven.

Originally posted by oner:

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Quote:

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DVD will fail? Sounds a lot like Blu-ray

1. Consumers aren't willing to rebuy movies

They will be the same tired movies that everyone already owns and will be loathe to buy again. [...] Because the titles available will be ones that people already own, they will naturally sell less than a new release that is still hot from the theaters. This will result in even a bigger cost for companies because the less they sell, the more each feature costs to implement on each title.

Right. Just like nobody repurchased their albums on CD or VHS tapes on DVD. This one seems to get dragged out for every new format and is quickly ignored once it takes off. We're not saying that people will rush to replace their DVDs with Blu-ray discs, but it seems obvious consumers eventually give in and repurchase media if the new format is worthwhile. The only difference we'd note is that well-kept DVDs don't deteriorate after use like VHS tapes did, so perhaps consumers will be somewhat less likely to replace their DVDs that still look as good as the day they bought them.

Verdict: Same argument now used against Blu-ray.

---

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DVD had very obvious benefits over VHS tapes because of the size, picture quality (no green lines or bleeding, smearing, audio signal would be at the top of picture, bad audio because of unavoidable damage over time), supposed indestructible composite, (which as we all know is complete bull .... but this new great coating will last a million years! blah blah blah.) in comparison to the stretched, chewed up video tape. instant search, and the obvious benefits for manufacturers.

blu-ray has no WOW features over DVD unlike DVD and VHS thats a stupid comparison, other than blu-ray is a larger storage medium & most ppl do not care about a few extra pixels when they own a 30" screen that you can hardly see the improvements over an upscaled DVD on.

You know what, you really take the biscuit, i can't be bothered.

why not just send that rant to sony with your job application, or you could just even say "look what a great job i'm doing here", send sony a link to AD and see if sony will pay for the server costs of afterdawn, and maybe give you a little back hander too, how many sites are your praising sony on now? its gotta be worth something eh!

Nicely put 13th ;)

Wasn't Norman Lamont that Tory who was getting * round the back of the 1987 Tory conference?

"Remember Luke--- use the farce"

Why do we have to have this same old bollocks every time somebody mentions Sony?.. news items are just that.. news items. I still don't see the need to chew it over, and I'm sure oner agrees.

newbie.. newbie.. newbie.. addict.. member.. newbie.. moderator (don't make me * laugh) newbie.. member.. addict.. interesting reading.

Somebody place the ban hammer down cuz people are being little babies about something they have no influence whatsoever on Sony's business ethics or decisions used in the real world. I'm sick of reading the same ole posts from Nobrainer and Oner, and also Varnull. It's getting old, maybe its time for another tech site.

And let's get real for a second. Do you really think that your petty opinions are really going to matter to anybody but you three that flame all the articles on Sony all the time? Is it going to influence their products or customer service any? I don't really think so. If you have a complaint bring it to Sony...Period. Why to a tech site that posts unbiased news to people that really appreciate credible sourced news? Grow up you trollers and stop flaming AD with your same song comments. Where's the Ban Hammer Mods?

All we see is YOUR OPINIONS vs Facts and PROVEN (caps also means emphasis not shouting...) numbers/documentation. I will still rather the cold hard numbers which absolutely REFUTE (that one's a shout) everything you spew. You just can't admit it nor will acknowledge it, so to YOU (emhasis) it does not matter no matter what...which is the problem and why you just don't get it.

Originally posted by varnull:

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Nicely put 13th ;)

Why do we have to have this same old bollocks every time somebody mentions Sony?.. news items are just that.. news items.

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Haha ironic

Originally posted by Hunt720:

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Originally posted by varnull:

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Nicely put 13th ;)

Why do we have to have this same old bollocks every time somebody mentions Sony?.. news items are just that.. news items.

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Haha ironic

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Someone who gets it :)

Originally posted by johnflash:

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Somebody place the ban hammer down cuz people are being little babies about something they have no influence whatsoever on Sony's business ethics or decisions used in the real world. I'm sick of reading the same ole posts from Nobrainer and Oner, and also Varnull. It's getting old, maybe its time for another tech site.

And let's get real for a second. Do you really think that your petty opinions are really going to matter to anybody but you three that flame all the articles on Sony all the time? Is it going to influence their products or customer service any? I don't really think so. If you have a complaint bring it to Sony...Period. Why to a tech site that posts unbiased news to people that really appreciate credible sourced news? Grow up you trollers and stop flaming AD with your same song comments. Where's the Ban Hammer Mods?

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That's a surprise since all I am doing is clearing up the constant misinformation, spam & off topic posts that people post in the wrong threads...when in all honesty I should do exactly what you ask.

"Just place the ban hammer down"

Originally posted by varnull:

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Whatever.. if you like it buy it.. just remember what they really want to do is RENT it to you.

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I'm probably not as smart as you are, so you'll have to explain this one to me. In what sense do they 'rent' movies to me?

I have DVD's I bought dating back from the first year DVD's were out, and I'm still able to play them without a problem. In fact, I can still play all of them.

Blu-ray? It's exactly the same. Up until this very day I can watch any Blu-ray movie I want anytime I want.

So in what sense are they moving towards a 'rental' policy?


As far as quality goes, the only extra advantage DVD had over VHS is that it wasn't as prone to wear-and-tear as VHS. For the rest, Blu-ray offers the same jump in quality as DVD did. In fact, in the wear-and-tear department, specs tests seems to indicate that Blu-ray doesn't scratch as easily as DVD, but only time will tell if there's a real improvement over durability.
But quality? There's a definite difference in picture and audio quality as well as features (BD profile 2.0). I can notice the difference very clearly on my 37" 10809 LCD TV.
But I guess anyone has their own opinion on that ...

Ok.. spelling it out.. all those old movies you own are just that.. you own them.

The current thinking is you will only be able to watch a new purchased movie on an approved machine with an internet connection so it can get approval to play from some server somewhere.

That's the meaning of DRM.. you never ever own what you buy. While that may be fine with a visit to the rental store with $5 in hand for an evenings entertainment, it does rankle when you fork out $30 for something which you are lead to believe you actually own.

DRM is not good for the customer. It makes a mockery of ownership and consumer rights.

Now I try to live in a DRM free world, which is my choice. Others who quite happily accept being ripped off and lied to also have a choice. The problem is when it comes to forcing that lack of choice on me.
I don't care if you love sony or love drm or love being stolen from.. that's down to you. Just don't expect me to lie back and get shafted nice and quiet so some suits can get even more rich by taking my, and your freedom away ;)

Do you get it now? It's nothing personal.. sometimes we have to stand up and shout, because otherwise nobody will.

Anyroad.. discovery programming and BD technology. Fantastic. I bet these will look just awesome for those who can afford the technology.
One day, maybe in the dim and distant drm riddled and restricted future this technology will be the norm, sadly for now they are pushing to 1% of the global market. As long as they don't forget to also release on ordinary dvd they can't lose. Trying to push a very expensive hardware format with consumables has always been rather a mistake. The boxes sit gathering dust while people continue to enjoy what they know and are used to.

I would love to go into every house and see a big tv and a blu player running awesome quality media... but it ain't going to happen.. The reality is going to be the 22-24" crt tv rescued from recycling and wasting energy because initial hardware costs are minimal.. That's what I see, not the 52" HD setups.
Not until we get off the oil standard which is allowing multi-billionaire sheiks to rape us all into energy poverty. How blind and short sighted we have been, trusting these monetarists and politicians with their get rich quick short term plans.

I'm angry, it's true.. but not at the people you would think I am angry at.

Varnull. I am not being a jerk. (I usually am) Your statement "The current thinking is you will only be able to watch a new purchased movie on an approved machine with an internet connection so it can get approval to play from some server somewhere." I dont know who's current thinking that is or where they got it from. Some new Blu-Ray movies do require a firmware up date. We do not have to have our player connected to the internet to get the up date. I can get the update on a thumb drive at work, home PC, where ever. Every Blu movie that I have bought so far is still mine & I can keep it, re-watch it, sell it. This is as far away from renting as it gets. I am sorry but I just cant see your side.

Originally posted by glassd:

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Varnull. I am not being a jerk. (I usually am) Your statement "The current thinking is you will only be able to watch a new purchased movie on an approved machine with an internet connection so it can get approval to play from some server somewhere." I dont know who's current thinking that is or where they got it from. Some new Blu-Ray movies do require a firmware up date. We do not have to have our player connected to the internet to get the up date. I can get the update on a thumb drive at work, home PC, where ever. Every Blu movie that I have bought so far is still mine & I can keep it, re-watch it, sell it. This is as far away from renting as it gets. I am sorry but I just cant see your side.

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I don't think she's referring to BluRay specifically. This device-specific DRM also applies to XBOX Live Marketplace, PS3 Downloads, Apple TV etc. A great majority of BluRay standalones are profile 1.0 or 1.1 and aren't even connected to the internet so it doesn't apply to these machines. Besides, not everyone is opting to put BD+ on their titles. It's mostly the Fox releases that have it - the others don't.

I have yet to find a BD film that requires me to have my PS3 connected online in order to play. I have read quite a bit on how people have been able to rip BDs and save the data for future playback. The consumer circumvention of BD DRM is still quite young. ... but with recorders dropping in price slowly, I can see people treating BD DRM the same way we treat DVD DRM in the coming years. To me, that is how you show the idiots that create DRM they are wasting their time.... its probably more effective than complaining in the comments section on a news article for a product you dont even own.

Call me slap crazy but I wish DRM would work as intended. I wish people could not copy it and put it on the internet for free. I buy all of my movies. When I pay for mine, I am also paying for what people steel. When you buy clothing or food, you also pay extra for what people steel out of the store. I don't like paying for what people feel that they don't have to pay for. I'm sure they can make lame excuses for doing it, just like I see here at times. When I buy a movie I am paying the Studio to allow me to experience their product. Blu-Ray cost more to produce and I am ok with it costing more than DVD. It states clearly before the movie that I am not allowed to copy the movie or redistribute it in any shape or form. I know that before I buy the product and am fine with that.

For the boy that doubts Oner intentions. Check out his Home Theater/Gaming setup Picture. He has EVERY THING. All consoles, even the old ones.

Ok give me the ability to back up my media without having to pay anyone for the privilege, remove the HDMI DRM (HDCP) so i can use what ever screen i want to and not be forced into purchasing new gear because you say i have to purchase a new Bravia, quit it with the phone home snooping, never implement online checks or media locks to single devices, reduce the price of the hardware and media to that of current DVD's and i will take you up on your offer sony, but NO one blu-ray from discovery will ever make me purchase anything.

Originally posted by Hunt720:

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I have yet to find a BD film that requires me to have my PS3 connected online in order to play. I have read quite a bit on how people have been able to rip BDs and save the data for future playback. The consumer circumvention of BD DRM is still quite young. ... but with recorders dropping in price slowly, I can see people treating BD DRM the same way we treat DVD DRM in the coming years. To me, that is how you show the idiots that create DRM they are wasting their time.... its probably more effective than complaining in the comments section on a news article for a product you dont even own.

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The DRM and forced strict region coding are waiting to be activated , they want to make the format as appealing to convince the populous that its a good, consumer friendly format. The phone home media activation is just an option open to them no studio has yet come forward and stated that they are moving to a long term rent option (ala SecuROM spore). The only studio thus far that has publicly stated that any phone home ability will be used is Fox (News Corp), who said they are going to gather "statistical usage" data to better advertising.

an old but still very valid post from Cory Doctorow can be found here:

HDMI, the Manchurian DRM - a Broadcast Flag dormant until 2010

Quote:

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This is a classic Manchurian Candidate strategy. These devices behave like normal gear until the studios pull the trigger, then they turn on you. The studios talk a big game about wanting to operate in a free market, but then you get stuff like this: back-room deals, restraint of trade, and attempts to subvert the market by fooling customers into buying crippled kit.

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Originally posted by 13thHouR:

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reduce the price of the hardware and media to that of current DVD's and i will take you up on your offer sony,

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I'll hold you to that nobrainer.

Tell you what, when a name brand player gets to $99 or below and new releases get to $15 a pop, I'll personally start a collection from the BD owners here so we can send you the money to buy your gear. It shouldn't take too long - probably by Black Friday next year.

Originally posted by junankerr:

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I'll hold you to that nobrainer.

Tell you what, when a name brand player gets to $99 or below and new releases get to $15 a pop, I'll personally start a collection from the BD owners here so we can send you the money to buy your gear. It shouldn't take too long - probably by Black Friday next year.

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whatever.

btw its the whole thing if i am paying current prices just to jump through hoops i'll stick with dvd's.

Originally posted by 13th:

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Ok give me the ability to back up my media without having to pay anyone for the privilege, remove the HDMI DRM (HDCP) so i can use what ever screen i want to and not be forced into purchasing new gear because you say i have to purchase a new Bravia, quit it with the phone home snooping, never implement online checks or media locks to single devices, reduce the price of the hardware and media to that of current DVD's and i will take you up on your offer sony, but NO one blu-ray from discovery will ever make me purchase anything.

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don't worry about the cash i'm going to copywrite fart sounds and make a fortune:-)

Silent music dispute resolved

Quote:

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Musician Mike Batt had paid a six-figure sum to settle a bizarre dispute over who owns copyright to a silent musical work.

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Ok give me the ability to back up my media without having to pay anyone for the privilege, remove the HDMI DRM (HDCP) so i can use what ever screen i want to and not be forced into purchasing new gear because you say i have to purchase a new Bravia, quit it with the phone home snooping, never implement online checks or media locks to single devices, reduce the price of the hardware and media to that of current DVD's and i will take you up on your offer sony, but NO one blu-ray from discovery will ever make me purchase anything.

If you dont pack your BD in a bag of rocks, you should not have to worry about backing them up. Dang near scratch resistant. Im using HDMI on a Samsung. Can hook it to any HDTV with HDMI or HDMI/Componet. Dont hook it to the net and you wont worry about snooping. Blu is so much more than DVD, kinda dumb to say that it should cost the same. Guess you think all vihicles should cost the same. Dont care if you ever buy into Blu-Ray.

The DRM and forced strict region coding are waiting to be activated , they want to make the format as appealing to convince the populous that its a good, consumer friendly format. The phone home media activation is just an option open to them no studio has yet come forward and stated that they are moving to a long term rent option (ala SecuROM spore). The only studio thus far that has publicly stated that any phone home ability will be used is Fox (News Corp), who said they are going to gather "statistical usage" data to better advertising.

an old but still very valid post from Cory Doctorow can be found here:

HDMI, the Manchurian DRM - a Broadcast Flag dormant until 2010
Quote:
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This is a classic Manchurian Candidate strategy. These devices behave like normal gear until the studios pull the trigger, then they turn on you. The studios talk a big game about wanting to operate in a free market, but then you get stuff like this: back-room deals, restraint of trade, and attempts to subvert the market by fooling customers into buying crippled kit.

^^^^
Is that a joke. Someones rant on doinkdoink . com. Sounds like a rant from a sore looser.

Originally posted by juankerr:

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Originally posted by 13thHouR:

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reduce the price of the hardware and media to that of current DVD's and i will take you up on your offer sony,

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I'll hold you to that nobrainer.

Tell you what, when a name brand player gets to $99 or below and new releases get to $15 a pop, I'll personally start a collection from the BD owners here so we can send you the money to buy your gear. It shouldn't take too long - probably by Black Friday next year.

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Sure, count me in for $20. Let's get nobrainer a nice Panasonic.

The BD35 should be about $99 by next year:

Panasonic's Profile 2.0 DMP-BD35 Blu-ray player priced at $299

BDP-S300 for $180 at Amazon

13thHouR and varnull, I'm with you. Just one thought to add... if we are and have been paying premium prices for DVD and BD newly released movies, shouldn't they be DRM-free? I can understand and even approve that DVD and BD movies intended for rentals should contain some form of DRM, after all you're kinda borrowing it for a fee and for a limited time, yet when it cames to actually paying to own a copy, regardless if DRM doesn't prevent you from viewing the movie, still we shouldn't be paying premium for DRM content, when it should be the opposite.

That's something that the record industry has finally understood, that they can achieve grander results when approaching a consumer-friendly attitude, yet because of greed, stubborness or fear, the movie industry doesn't. My point is that if you're going to rent a movie or buy a copy for a low fee, yet the condition is that should contain some form of DRM, that's fine by me and sure some people will find it appealing for the price, but when it cames to actually paying premium prices for movies, shouldn't they be DRM-free?

Originally posted by ematrix:

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13thHouR and varnull, I'm with you. Just one thought to add... if we are and have been paying premium prices for DVD and BD newly released movies, shouldn't they be DRM-free? I can understand and even approve that DVD and BD movies intended for rentals should contain some form of DRM, after all you're kinda borrowing it for a fee and for a limited time, yet when it cames to actually paying to own a copy, regardless if DRM doesn't prevent you from viewing the movie, still we shouldn't be paying premium for DRM content, when it should be the opposite.

That's something that the record industry has finally understood, that they can achieve grander results when approaching a consumer-friendly attitude, yet because of greed, stubborness or fear, the movie industry doesn't. My point is that if you're going to rent a movie or buy a copy for a low fee, yet the condition is that should contain some form of DRM, that's fine by me and sure some people will find it appealing for the price, but when it cames to actually paying premium prices for movies, shouldn't they be DRM-free?

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well... Prof P Gutmann had this to say.

A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection

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In July 2006, Cory Doctorow published an analysis of the anti-competitive nature of Apple's iTunes copy-restriction system that looked at the benefits of restrictive DRM for the company that controls it. The only reason I can imagine why Microsoft would put its programmers, device vendors, third-party developers, and ultimately its customers, through this much pain is because once this copy protection is entrenched, Microsoft will completely own the distribution channel. In the same way that Apple has managed to acquire a monopolistic lock-in on their music distribution channel (an example being the Motorola ROKR fiasco, which was so crippled by restrictions that a Fortune magazine senior editor reviewed it as the STNKER), so Microsoft will totally control the premium-content distribution channel. In fact examples of this Windows content lock-in are already becoming apparent as people move to Vista and find that their legally-purchased content won't play any more under Vista (the example given in the link is particularly scary because the content actually includes a self-destruct after which it won't play any more, so not only do you need to re-purchase your content when you switch from XP to Vista, but you also need to re-purchase it periodically when it expires. In addition since the media rights can't be backed up, if you experience a disk crash you get another opportunity to re-purchase the content all over again. This is by design: as Jack Valenti, former head of the MPAA, put it, “If you buy a DVD you have a copy. If you want a backup copy you buy another one”). It's obvious why this type of business model makes the pain of pushing content protection onto consumers so worthwhile for *said company* since it practically constitutes a license to print money.

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and:

Sony BMG's chief anti-piracy lawyer: "Copying" music you own is "stealing"

Quote:

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Gabriel asked if it was wrong for consumers to make copies of music which they have purchased, even just one copy. Pariser replied, "When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Making "a copy" of a purchased song is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'," she said.

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practically constitutes a license to print money.
practically constitutes a license to print money.
practically constitutes a license to print money.
practically constitutes a license to print money.
practically constitutes a license to print money.

ematrix. I think that there is a difference between buying the movie and paying to experience the movie. If you bought Pirates of the Caribbean 3 for $150,000,000 which is what it cost to make, then you would have a pretty good argument that you should be able to do what ever you wanted to do with it. I paid $30 for it on Blu-Ray. I'm not worried about my disk getting damaged because I take care of my stuff. I honestly don't think that studios really care if you make a backup but we all know what most really want. Most want someone to copy it and put on a file sharing site so they can get it for free.

Originally posted by glassd:

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ematrix. I think that there is a difference between buying the movie and paying to experience the movie. If you bought Pirates of the Caribbean 3 for $150,000,000 which is what it cost to make, then you would have a pretty good argument that you should be able to do what ever you wanted to do with it. I paid $30 for it on Blu-Ray. I'm not worried about my disk getting damaged because I take care of my stuff. I honestly don't think that studios really care if you make a backup but we all know what most really want. Most want someone to copy it and put on a file sharing site so they can get it for free.

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Now that sounds just like the miss direction of Big Media's Public Relations Spin Tools. If they can get everyone to purchase the same media over and over again they get profit from media that has already been paid for many times over, it's called "money for old rope".

Why do you think that format shifting is illegal because of the DRM and DMCA, which was lobbied for by guess who, the media industry, MPAA/RIAA.



Sony BMG's chief anti-piracy lawyer: "Copying" music you own is "stealing"

Quote:

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Gabriel asked if it was wrong for consumers to make copies of music which they have purchased, even just one copy. Pariser replied, "When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Making "a copy" of a purchased song is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'," she said.

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practically constitutes a license to print money.

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Why would I buy the same media over and over. I buy it once and take care of it. The end. I guess that if you wreck your car, you would go to the dealer and demand a new replacement.

Quote:

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The promotion will begin on October 5th and is for "a limited time only." Over 11,000 retailers are paricipating in the promotion including Sears, Circuit City and Sony Style, and when purchasing a Sony standalone you will be given a coupon redeemable for the Discovery BD. The disc will have episodes of Fearless Planet and Sunrise Earth which are nomally seen on Discovery’s HD Theater network.

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This is good since the Sony BDP-S350 just got the 010 Firmware update which makes it officially BD-Live 2.0 capable (as promised).

http://esupport.sony.com/perl/swu-downlo...=99&mdl=BDPS350

The Discovery HD programs are some of the best HD nature videos out there with great videography and locations - an excellent showcase for your high def setup.

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an excellent showcase for your high def setup.

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True

Hey Nobrainer, would you please stop spamming AD with your biased opinions, I am so sick of your crap-one of these days ur going to get banned again..oh wait-how many times have you been banned from AD anyways? Oh wait..so its happened before right? So that is why your credibility isn't worth anybody's time here right? That's what I thought. Stop...BAN Hammer-time!

Originally posted by bdoggie08:

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Hey Nobrainer, would you please stop spamming AD with your biased opinions, I am so sick of your crap-one of these days ur going to get banned again..oh wait-how many times have you been banned from AD anyways? Oh wait..so its happened before right? So that is why your credibility isn't worth anybody's time here right? That's what I thought. Stop...BAN Hammer-time!

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thanks for your opinion it's been taken onboard and fully digested.

NOW, please don't use a forum as your own personal insult board to attack other members.

Thank you.

glassd, you missed the point... I'm not talking about DRM itself, which of course is not an issue with all the programs that circumvent it, but for the prices we're and have been paying for DVD and BD movies, we should be getting DRM-free content... otherwise, consumers should be paying less for DRM content.

My comment has nothing to do with file sharing, piracy, or porting and backing up movies for personal use, but that consumers shouldn't be covering the expense of DRM, rather the movie industry should do that, after all DRM offers no benefit to consumers, and specially when we're paying premium prices for movies, it sure should be a privilege to have them DRM-free, and not endorse DRM itself.

My point is that consumers shouldn't be paying for DRM, it sure doesn't prevent you from watching a movie, but also doesn't offer you any benefit either; if the movie industry needs DRM then they should cover the expense for it, not us.

We saw this among music fans who constantly argued "If they going to charge $1 a song, it better be DRM-free, otherwise it isn't worth the expense". The record industry understood that, and now they're following a more consumer-friendly attitude with DRM-free music. If given the choice, some consumers would preffer a $15-30 DVD or BD newly released movie DRM-free, yet others would find appealing to pay much less for the same movie, on DVD or BD with some form of DRM.

Honest question. My understanding of DRM is that it provents copying of the Movie. What more is it to DRM and what extra cost is there to have DRM on a Disk?

The problem overall is that DRM doesn't work, and paying customers are the only ones who are suffering from it. Indeed most DRM intent to prevent you from copying a movie, yet not all DRM does that, such as Regional Coding prevents you from playing a disc from a different region... I'm sure that others can elaborate more about this, yet we can all agree that DRM has never shown any benefit for consumers, and it's more an niussance.

We know that any form of DRM has been develop by several companies such as Macrovision, and they expect to be paid royalties for each disc that includes their DRM... who do you think ends up paying for that? Costumers. The question is why should we end up paying, even endorsing DRM, when it clearly benefits only the movie studios and surely doesn't benefit us?

How much does it cost to have DRM on a disc? To fully understand this, first you have to see the big picture. There are basically three areas of cost: production, pre-mastering (authoring, encoding, and formatting), and mastering/replication.

Authoring and pre-mastering costs are the most expensive part of DVD or BD. A ballpark cost for producing a Hollywood-quality two-hour DVD movie goes from $2,000 to $15,000, depending if includes motion or static menus, single or multiple audio tracks, subtitles, trailers, and a few additional material. Authoring and pre-mastering a movie on BD costs at least $15,000.

DVDs cost about $700, and BDs cost as much as $2,500 per layer to master and setup for replication; DVD-5 and DVD-9 costs under $0.50 to replicate per disc in a 25,000 run quantity. On similar runs, BD-25 costs under $2 per disc and BD-50 under $3 per disc.

Of course the larger the order, the cheaper would cost to replicate the discs; but consider that usually DVD more frequently orders 25,000 to 100,000 run quantities, while currently BD orders 25,000 run quantity at most.

Here's the tricky part... using any form of DRM involves paying an initial fee, which goes from $1,500 to $2,500 per title, therefore if they implement more than one DRM on the disc, the initial fee for each DRM must be paid; even in the case of some DRM like ACCS for BD, those initial fees are recharged each time they do a check disc, and after they start final production, there's an additional fee for roughly $0.10 per unit for each DRM implemented.

Sure doesn't sound like much, but you came to realize that after how much does it cost to produce a DVD or BD disc, they end up adding as much as 50% to the total replication cost per disc, just to cover DRM fees, which reflects in the final price we as costumers pay for movies, because if the producer or movie studio has to invest extra on DRM, it passes that cost to costumers, in order to still profit reasonably from selling the movie.

Again this has nothing to do with file sharing, piracy, or porting and backing up movies for personal use, but if we are and have been paying $15-30 for DVD and BD newly released movies, it sure should be a privilege to have them DRM-free, and not the opposite.

Exelent explination. Thanks. I see your point. I aslo feel that if DRM was good enough, digital theft would not occur and we all would not have to pay extra for that. Once again, thanks. More respect to You.

Originally posted by bdoggie08:

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Hey Nobrainer, would you please stop spamming AD with your biased opinions, I am so sick of your crap-one of these days ur going to get banned again..oh wait-how many times have you been banned from AD anyways? Oh wait..so its happened before right? So that is why your credibility isn't worth anybody's time here right? That's what I thought. Stop...BAN Hammer-time!

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Please if nobrainer (no longer here) has made biased opinions, please provide documented counter examples (not opinions).

Originally posted by 1bonehead:

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Originally posted by bdoggie08:

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Hey Nobrainer, would you please stop spamming AD with your biased opinions, I am so sick of your crap-one of these days ur going to get banned again..oh wait-how many times have you been banned from AD anyways? Oh wait..so its happened before right? So that is why your credibility isn't worth anybody's time here right? That's what I thought. Stop...BAN Hammer-time!

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Please if nobrainer (no longer here) has made biased opinions, please provide documented counter examples (not opinions).

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The problem with any large corp, is they have armies of bloggers to act as damage control that troll all the usual forums and anyone with any damaging information they will instantly jump all over trying to discredit, they will purposely post everything they can to make it look like you are talking rubbish and constantly stand up for anti-consumer behaviour, it's just one of those things. DRM has no defence for the average user, the only defence DRM has, is from the shareholders of the company making millions from the royalties from every disk their malware is put on.

Just as EA never put any information on the retail Boxes about the anti-consumer locks, neither have Sony put anything on their news page about the backlash: http://www.securom.com/news.asp

Originally posted by 13thhour:

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Ok give me the ability to back up my media without having to pay anyone for the privilege, remove the HDMI DRM (HDCP) so i can use what ever screen i want to and not be forced into purchasing new gear because you say i have to purchase a new Bravia, quit it with the phone home snooping, never implement online checks or media locks to single devices, reduce the price of the hardware and media to that of current DVD's and i will take you up on your offer sony, but NO one blu-ray from discovery will ever make me purchase anything.

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Until these conditions are made i will not be fooled by this pathetic sales campaign. remove your malware and give us back our rights.

Quote:

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Originally posted by bdoggie08:

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Hey Nobrainer, would you please stop spamming AD with your biased opinions, I am so sick of your crap-one of these days ur going to get banned again..oh wait-how many times have you been banned from AD anyways? Oh wait..so its happened before right? So that is why your credibility isn't worth anybody's time here right? That's what I thought. Stop...BAN Hammer-time!

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Please if nobrainer (no longer here) has made biased opinions, please provide documented counter examples (not opinions).

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Here you go
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2/675460#4113122
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/680797#4141021
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/680797#4141582
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/677248#4121093
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/677547#4121698
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/677547#4121876
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/676913#4119582
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/676913#4117946

just read through them, there's plenty of proof-and there's more where that came from! PROOF! 13thHouR=nobrainer. Ban Hammer AWAY!!