AfterDawn: Tech news

New Cinavia DRM takes aim at pirates

Written by Andre Yoskowitz (Google+) @ 03 Mar 2010 17:37 User comments (214)

New Cinavia DRM takes aim at pirates FileShareFreak has a very interesting report out today about Cinavia DRM, which is a new audio watermarking technology that takes aim at pirates, and those trying to playback movie downloads via their PlayStation 3s.
The site says the watermarking works by "comparing the source of the audio to the format in which a movie was released (ie theatrical or commercial disc), and if the watermarked audio source detects a difference, the movie will either be mute (but most likely not play at all)."

To date, it has been found in a TS version of "The Wolfman" that has been popular via P2P and torrent sites.

"Movies protected by Cinavia technology carry inaudible codes embedded by the copyright owner in their audio tracks that indicate where and how they are allowed to be used. For example, movies that are being released to theaters can carry a Cinavia code that indicates that they are supposed to be duplicated by professional replicators and played back on professional projection equipment only," reads the official site.

The TS version of Wolfman, which uses "line" audio recorded through a headphone jack, had the watermark, and when added to the camera source, the audio did not match (it was searching for theatrical release) and is therefore muted when played back on Blu-ray players and the PS3, which have Cinavia DRM supported.

You can check if your Blu-ray player has the DRM check built-in here, but be noted that ALL new BD players will have it as of the Q1 2010.

Of course, if you are playing the files back on your DVD player or PC, you won't have a problem, as there are none that have Cinavia detectors.

Likely, hackers will find away around this watermark DRM, but for now, the cat-and-mouse game is on.

Read our Cinavia FAQ here: Constantly being updated

More news

Previous Next

Related news

 

214 user comments

13.3.2010 18:17

nice way to make the ps3 less attractive to potential buyers, ill stick with my wdtv live media player and just use my ps3 for games

23.3.2010 18:55

To be honest, simply encoding the audio should remove such a watermark... if I'm not mistaken the mp3 codec for example removes inaudible sound ranges as part of its compression.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 03 Mar 2010 @ 18:57

33.3.2010 19:16

Originally posted by elbald90:
nice way to make the ps3 less attractive to potential buyers, ill stick with my wdtv live media player and just use my ps3 for games
How so? If its ripped to a digital format (MP4, AVI, ect...) and put on the HDD it should still work.

43.3.2010 19:32

Couldn't you just make sure you disconnect from the internet on your ps3 before you try to play whatever file you want to watch?

53.3.2010 21:06

Can it block/effect a encrypted zip file?
If not its pointless....

63.3.2010 23:33

I have no real desire to download The Wolfman, but I was reading on Cinavia's website and what really concerns me is that they want to put this new audio watermark on future DVDs and Blu Ray discs. Right now I have an upconversion DVD player, but I would like to buy a Blu Ray player in the near future, and apparently ALL of the new models will have this crap built in. Guess I'll have to look for an older model on ebay. I looked at the Cinavia list of "integrated product manufacturers", but how on earth do you know if a certain Blu Ray model has this DRM or not? Damn, I hope somebody finds an easy fix for this, but if it's already embedded into the audio, I don't see how AnyDVD is going to be able to do anything about it.

73.3.2010 23:51

Whatever contrived method they use to prevent you from making a back up it will be defeated untill everyone has a barcode on their forehead....

84.3.2010 0:17

If you make a "back-up" of something, it means it you have the original, which in turn means you can play it;if you can play it, you can crack it/record it/convert it.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Mar 2010 @ 0:19

94.3.2010 0:24

Originally posted by cyprusrom:
If you make a "back-up" of something, it means it you have the original, which in turn means you can play it;if you can play it, you can crack it/record it/convert it.
Hard to make a back up when they make it illegal to...

104.3.2010 2:34

So here's what I'm wondering with regard to Blu Ray players. Say you buy a slightly older model Blu Ray player - for instance, a refurbished Samsung BD-P1500. Assuming that it doesn't automatically come with this new little Cinavia detector programmed into it, would it be safe to download the player's firmware updates? Would the Cinavia detector be part of a firmware update, or is that something that would have to already be installed into the player's hardware? Any guesses on this?

114.3.2010 3:41

Originally posted by tucker001:
Couldn't you just make sure you disconnect from the internet on your ps3 before you try to play whatever file you want to watch?
no dude.. theres a sound pattern embedded into the audio.. that triggers the whole player to mute itself.. everyone on this site said stay away from blu ray and no one listened.

124.3.2010 5:03

lxfactor, Amen!

134.3.2010 8:31

Yeah, lxfactor, because had HD-DVD won the format war this kind of technology would NEVER have been implemented. And EVERYONE on this site said 'stay away from blu ray'? What colour-tinted glasses have you been reading through?

144.3.2010 10:53

AnyDVD HD will probably find a way around this. I hope.

154.3.2010 11:32
RiaaScum
Inactive

Originally posted by elbald90:
nice way to make the ps3 less attractive to potential buyers, ill stick with my wdtv live media player and just use my ps3 for games
as sony is the fore runner of DRM and the RIAA, MPAA its not a surprise that their PS3 & Blu-Ray players will block anything not fitting Sony's lockdown of all media, its probably best to avoid all sony products as purchasing anything from them gives them more funds to be anti consumer with.

sony made billions from the VCR market after changing the law now they have made their fortune and have a vested interest in the movie industry they now back track & try to lock down content.

i wonder if home movies will in the future need authoring or a purchased license from sony for us to be able to watch content we create?

164.3.2010 12:41

Here is what I read somewhere. Haven't confirmed, but would be funny if it works.


Quote:
Fast Forward (1.5 speed) a couple of seconds past the Cinavia message (before you get the message). PS3 cant pick up the protection code in the audio at anything other than normal speed.
*CONFIRMED by myself. This works. Nice try Cinavia.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Mar 2010 @ 14:40

174.3.2010 12:57

Quote:
Here is what I read somewhere. Haven't confirmed, but would be funny if it works.


Quote:
Fast Forward (1.5 speed) a couple of seconds past the Cinavia message (before you get the message). PS3 cant pick up the protection code in the audio at anything other than normal speed.


Does that mean that playback at any speed other than normal would make the encryption be undetectable?with VLC for example you can increase/decrease playback speeds in increments of 10%, which can be barely noticeable.
Does that mean it would work if re-encoding the audio/video to a different frame rate?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Mar 2010 @ 12:58

184.3.2010 13:26

Quote:
Originally posted by tucker001:
Couldn't you just make sure you disconnect from the internet on your ps3 before you try to play whatever file you want to watch?
no dude.. theres a sound pattern embedded into the audio.. that triggers the whole player to mute itself.. everyone on this site said stay away from blu ray and no one listened.
No Dude this has nothing to do with BD but will be added to BD & DVD your comment doesn't hold water. If HD-DVD was still a float it would be implemented there as well.

Hopefully AnyDVD will get their paws on the water mark encryption.

How about HDCP anyone busted that one yet?

194.3.2010 13:58

So does anyone here with a PS3 know when this Cinavia crap was put into the PS3? I'm assuming it was bundled with a recent firmware update. Just a guess.

As for AnyDVD, don't get me wrong, I love Slysoft and I sure hope to hell that they find a fairly easy fix for this, but if it's already embedded into the audio stream, I just don't see how they'd be able to remove that.

So, in the inevitable event that they eventually start putting this new watermark into DVDs and Blu Ray discs (which you know they will), it seems there are only two options - A, figure out a way to bypass the encryption on the disc itself (ala AnyDVD HD), or B, try the extremely difficult task of trying to hack the Blu Ray player (depending on the model). Or, if you have an older Blu Ray player, don't download any firmware updates and hope to hell that it keeps on working properly. I'm going to be extremely curious to see what Slysoft's view on this is.

204.3.2010 14:43

Quote:
Quote:
Here is what I read somewhere. Haven't confirmed, but would be funny if it works.


Quote:
Fast Forward (1.5 speed) a couple of seconds past the Cinavia message (before you get the message). PS3 cant pick up the protection code in the audio at anything other than normal speed.


Does that mean that playback at any speed other than normal would make the encryption be undetectable?with VLC for example you can increase/decrease playback speeds in increments of 10%, which can be barely noticeable.
Does that mean it would work if re-encoding the audio/video to a different frame rate?

Actually you only have to do it for a few seconds then switch back to normal. I tried it on my ps3. First I played it normally and it gave me the Cinavia Error, then I plyed the beginning 20 seconds or so in 1.5 speed then switched back to normal and the entire movie played fine.

214.3.2010 15:04

I spoke too soon. It worked once, but it seems to be getting me now. As long as I keep it at 1.5 it works fine, but now it seems to be popping pu the error after about 30 seconds of play now.

Not sure why. So maybe they did get it. But it will be circumvented soon enough. Will have to try it out on my xbox.

224.3.2010 15:20

Try re-encoding a portion of the video file, 10 minutes or so,maybe to a different frame rate, and see if it makes a difference.

235.3.2010 0:51

Pretty soon there's gonna be more DRM then CONTENT on these disks!
A BD will be 10gigs of low quality, poorly made movie and the rest of the disk is filled with various protection schemes! LOL
I predict a very strong market in BD firmware hacks!

246.5.2010 8:37
AntiTryst
Unverified new user

360 seems to be cinavia DRM free, for now. Any movie I tried with the DRM on PS3 would lockup, but on the 360 they all played perfectly.

256.5.2010 8:55

Originally posted by AntiTryst:
360 seems to be cinavia DRM free, for now. Any movie I tried with the DRM on PS3 would lockup, but on the 360 they all played perfectly.
The 360 doesn't have a Blu-Ray player,I think that's where the DRm is embedded, in the player's firmware.

267.5.2010 10:21

i figured a way around the little cinavia problem and have a file protected by cinavia now playing perfectly on my ps3.

277.5.2010 14:25

Originally posted by tin23uk:
i figured a way around the little cinavia problem and have a file protected by cinavia now playing perfectly on my ps3.
Fantastic!, and by the way I found out who created the Universe, but I'm not tell'n.... LOL

287.5.2010 23:42
finishedfirst
Unverified new user

if someone could try this out cuz im too lazy to... what about re encoding the audio at a slightly higher pitch one that the difference is not noticeable to the human ear but only the ps3 or any other bluray player

299.5.2010 0:55
vashsf
Unverified new user

DVD Flick worked perfectly. I converted the avi to dvd then burned it to disc, brought the ole dvd player in from garage, and proceeded to watch "The Losers".Take that cinavia. I then asked my wife to make me a pirate hat so I can make a utube vid tellin Cinavia to suck it.

309.5.2010 19:02
dcnjrz
Unverified new user

these fools are waisting their time if they think they can stop us pirates from watching all the movies we want for free. they cant stop us. we just download from another source. i run a website edited by ddp and they have not gotten to any of my movies. i get my advance copies from an anonymous source and there is nothing they can do to stop me from posting them up for everyone to get for free. they harder they try, the more movies we will post. the harder they try to stop us, the more of a loss they are going to take. i cant wait till they give up on it like every other edited by ddp lock they have tried so far. we are even ripping from netflix discs now. nobody can stop us! edited by ddp cinavia you edited by ddp bite my dust

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 May 2010 @ 19:05

319.5.2010 19:59

four-victor-charlie...four-victor-charlie... request target ID coordinants...
Drone programed and deployed. Proceeding to Alpha-two-four-niner-niner, awaiting termination approval code. Visual confirmation, we can see the disk. Repeat, we can see the disk. Termination code approved, EMP deployed. Direct hit. Target destroyed.

329.5.2010 20:55

Bravo-0ne,acknowledged that. Direct hit confirmed.

339.5.2010 21:37

Originally posted by cyprusrom:
Bravo-0ne,acknowledged that. Direct hit confirmed.
Target remains! I repeat target remains! LMAO

349.5.2010 22:04

Originally posted by garmoon:
Originally posted by cyprusrom:
Bravo-0ne,acknowledged that. Direct hit confirmed.
Target remains! I repeat target remains! LMAO

Ah, those damn "pirated" lightning bolts,we must've got a bogus shipmen again...Damn you DOD, shipping us counterfeited ammo again!!!

3515.5.2010 20:06
Showtime990
Unverified new user

This to me is a waste of time, i have just come across this message on my PS3 after a friend borrowed me The Losers, ok so it wont work in my PS3 because of the firmware embedded into the blu-ray player, big deal, press eject and then placed the same dvd into my dvd player with a HDMI output and presto it works.

blu-ray is good for blu-ray discs, using the PS3 as a dvd player is just an option as we all have other dvd players which we can use, and may i add with HDMI outputs, you do not gain any quality by putting a pirate copy of a dvd into a blu ray player (especially from a avi download off the net)so who are they stopping, what a joke, just means my PS3 will now spend more time switched off when i am not gaming, which saves me some money and pro longs the life of my PS3.

PS: i have not opted to buy a blu-ray burner and thank god i did not, i did purchase my PS3 though when it first came out with the crazy price tag, but blu-rays you can pick up for as little as 6.99 or less from Amazon, wow how they try LOL.

3617.5.2010 3:24

It is just another means of making it harder on paying customers. Pirates will quickly adapt to this...and before long, we will have some kind of "Fast frame copy" that copies just the video, audio, sub, and nav data...and leaves behind this crap in order to make a perfect copy at a smaller size.

Oh, someone asked if HDCP was ever cracked. The answer is yes...it was cracked before they started selling the first commercial bluray players, but the crack is not software, but hardware...and making, possessing, selling, or transporting such hardware is illegal according to the DMCA (even though several commercial sites such as IGN have them).

BTW...I could get a bluray burner cheap if I wanted one, even retail isn't that bad anymore...but why? I can't remember the last time I burned a DVD...I have two spindles of blanks that have cobwebs over them! If I want to watch on my PS3, I have a media server. If I want to carry data around, I have flash drives. If I want to carry a lot of data around, a DL-Bluray only gives me 1/10 the space of a cheap hard drive. OH, and blurays are only $3 here in the states, and that is still more per GB than a hard drive!

3717.5.2010 12:08

Originally posted by KillerBug:
Oh, someone asked if HDCP was ever cracked. The answer is yes...it was cracked before they started selling the first commercial bluray players, but the crack is not software, but hardware...and making, possessing, selling, or transporting such hardware is illegal according to the DMCA (even though several commercial sites such as IGN have them).

BTW...I could get a bluray burner cheap if I wanted one, even retail isn't that bad anymore...but why? I can't remember the last time I burned a DVD...I have two spindles of blanks that have cobwebs over them! If I want to watch on my PS3, I have a media server. If I want to carry data around, I have flash drives. If I want to carry a lot of data around, a DL-Bluray only gives me 1/10 the space of a cheap hard drive. OH, and blurays are only $3 here in the states, and that is still more per GB than a hard drive!
I looked at the IGN software site and could only find old articles on HDCP solutions so I don't see anything good there. The real solutions out their involve taking an old device like a TV and tapping off the AV signal after it has been decoded and handshakeing is no longer performed. This isn't a great solution for the average person and even for a techie it's a mess. So you are not correct about it being circumvented before being produced.

No BD burner, a burner & discs is much cheaper in the long run then buying 10 500GB 2.5" (for <5TG storage, 100 movies) removable drives and the storage is much safer given proper care so your argument for storing on a expensive device that can fail is pretty flimsy at best. It's cool to have a HD server on a HDD(s) but I would still have my long term storage on optical discs hence therefore needing a BD burner. The bottom line is it's a quarter the price to use BD discs, at most, and the storage is more reliable too so it's really a no-brainer to have a burner.

3820.5.2010 8:14
rollinboy
Inactive

anyone confirm that this works...Quote...people with ps3's have you tryed this....I was able to watch it when I used convertxtodvd to burn the video and disconnected the PS3 from the internet. It played it just fine for me.

Last edited by yajdragon79 at 2010-05-20 12:29:12 anyone else with a ps3 who can't usually play this due to the cinavia crap confirm does this actually work ?

3922.5.2010 0:23
TyKapp
Unverified new user

Yeah it would be as easy as burning and using and old dvd player....but my deal is this


I don't wanna burn any DVD's--I have all my flics on my Media Server and I stream to the PS3. If I disconnect from the network in my home, then I can not longer stream the movies. Then I have to burn to a disc--so I basically have to remove it from my Server because it's worthless sitting there if I cannot stream to my PS3......Need a fix soon ( or just burn dvd's :( )

407.6.2010 18:28
Chapstyle
Unverified new user

This is strange. Yesterday I was watching a film on my PS3 with no problem, today I tried to watch a newer film, had this problem. Any idea how exactly the Cinavia works? Is it only recent films? All films?

418.6.2010 1:25

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
How about HDCP anyone busted that one yet?
Yes and no as its a hardware feature it requires you heavily modify your device. theres also a little box you but between your HDCP device and your NON/HDCP compliant device. it tricks the HDCP device into believing its hooked upto another HDCP compliant device.

HDCPs weakness is that its a point to point implementation.


4212.6.2010 23:52

Why would anyone stream from a media server to ps3 then to the tv? That makes zero sense to me. Why not just connect directly to the tv via hdmi? Or get a tv with a usb port that accepts video? My Philips plays H.264 and Divx via the USB port. I have my 500 gig external plugged into it. When I have more money for a media server I'll probably have that plugged into it. And, yes, I will get a PS3 and plug that into it, but I won't stream from media server to ps3 to tv.

4329.6.2010 18:22
bigdwoody25
Unverified new user

Originally posted by teikyo30:
Why would anyone stream from a media server to ps3 then to the tv? That makes zero sense to me. Why not just connect directly to the tv via hdmi? Or get a tv with a usb port that accepts video? My Philips plays H.264 and Divx via the USB port. I have my 500 gig external plugged into it. When I have more money for a media server I'll probably have that plugged into it. And, yes, I will get a PS3 and plug that into it, but I won't stream from media server to ps3 to tv.
Well edited by ddp, what if you have all of your content on one computer and you want to watch it on multiple tv's? Or what if you don't have a cool tv like yours that plays video via a USB port, etc? It actually makes perfect sense to use PS3 media server, I do myself. I download everything on my computer and then stream it all in real time to all 5 of my tv's. That's why. PS3 media server is a small program that turns your computer into a media server, so you can watch everything through the network on any tv that has a PS3/Xbox/etc. hooked up to it.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 Jun 2010 @ 22:15

4429.6.2010 22:54

Funny how unappealing films such as this have the most anti-piracy BS I have ever seen. There are always a way to get around a roadblock. Give it time and it will be unlocked, unrooted, or free. That's just how the internet works: to be adaptable to the masses for all to enjoy, not just to a select few who want to control everything. It was meant to be free, plain and simple.

456.7.2010 22:56
Nemoda1
Inactive

Originally posted by tin23uk:
i figured a way around the little cinavia problem and have a file protected by cinavia now playing perfectly on my ps3.
how can i play canavia protected AVI's On my ps3

469.7.2010 13:57
rollinboy
Inactive

@Nemoda1 don't update your firmware on your ps3 lol

4716.7.2010 13:54
Cinavia Fixed
Unverified new user

I tried this
link


and it worked just fine.

4828.8.2010 13:19
Chickenbreast
Unverified new user

To let everyone know, I've experienced the message watching streaming video through MovShare (A PlayON plugin) on my PS3. The movie was The Karate Kid. It first occurred 15 minutes into the video. I found that if I paused it the message would go away and could play for a short while longer before it appeared again(what a pain). Playing it at 1.5x speed might be an option if I had a larger portion buffered, but I never thought of that. I guess I could let it pause to for a long while to buffer a large portion of the movie and then play it at 1.5x speed. The only problem is that speed is very noticeable.

494.9.2010 23:28
Screw sony
Unverified new user

Just ran into this playing karate kid blue ray on my pa3 via ps3 media server. I just disconnected my router from my Modem and it plays fine for now, will report again later.

Also, all that will need to be done to combat this is a technology similar to noise canceling headphones. Encode the audio with white noise at the same frequency as cinavia and the two will cancel eqchother out. Problem solved.

Sony is stupid, if this keeps up I will sell my ps3 and buy a WDTV live. Then I will buy an xbox for gaming only since they have better games anyway. Then they will never make another cent from me ever again.

5015.9.2010 8:55

Good technology IMO, I'm all in favour of something which inconveniences the pikies / thieves...
Of course Sony are going to put some sort of anti-piracy technology into their consoles, when they have a major stake in the film industry!! *rolleyes*

5126.9.2010 16:47

Mwahahahahaha!!!ITS Alive!!...and I shall call you Necrothread.


Powered By

526.12.2010 11:03
ljbanner
Inactive

been messing around with the ps3 and cinavia protected file and have worked out that when you play the file you get about 20 mins watch then the cinivia banner kicks in and mutes audio.
i have found that when this happens exit file go to time settings in the ps3 options change time zone to any other and change the date to a different date (say 2042) then go back to the video file and it plays perfect for another 20 mins or so!!!!!!!!
hope this is of help to people. please bow down to the BANNERMAN

539.12.2010 6:14
dudizz
Unverified new user

dude that's not a solution, it's barely a workaround
pausing the movie every 20 minutes for a settings change is a pain in the S
we should find a solution that needs one action only before playing the movie
oh and of course playing the movie in any speed other than x1 is not a real solution either

it should be some kind of audio recoding, don't know what codec, quality etc. i guess we have to figure out the specifics by trial and error, but i'm pretty limited with no ps3 to try it on (i'm trying to help a friend)

5411.12.2010 17:52

Hey people-
FYI if you downgrade your PS3 to V3.01 and below, (i downgraded at 3.01) the bastard C*****via is not on that firware. I've tested with Karate Kid and Resiednt Evil After Life ( Bluray rips ) and 100% working. BTW - I have a fat Ps3 and using JBreak......
Hope this helps
Cheers

5511.12.2010 17:59

Originally posted by tin23uk:
i figured a way around the little cinavia problem and have a file protected by cinavia now playing perfectly on my ps3.
Well ? Go eat S****T

5614.12.2010 5:41

If you take just a quick look at the patents logged for this watermarking technology, you'll know there wont be a solution any time soon. The patents mention any attacks you might readily think of such as analysing/editing in audio software. I've done several experiments and know these facts:

It isn't affected by small time increases/decreases.
It is reliably detected within 4 seconds of audio.
It is not affected by direction i.e. it is still detected when playing audio backwards.

There are currently 2 workarounds for a PS3 on firmware 3.55:

1. Select 'Sound Settings' under the 'Settings' section, select 'Optical' and place a tick against all output options. You will get a warning that this could damage speakers so proceed with caution. There is another setting under the 'Sound Settings' which relates to enabling multiple outputs, set this to 'On'. I have tried this and it works, movie plays without any banner popping up.

2. If the above doesn't work then this one will (similar to ljbanner's method). When the cinavia message pops up, go to the date/time settings and set the hour back 1. Try playing the movie again and the banner should come straight up. Go back to date/time settings and move the hour forward again. You should now get another 20 mins.

5715.12.2010 18:38

Select 'Sound Settings' under the 'Settings' section, select 'Optical' and place a tick against all output options. You will get a warning that this could damage speakers so proceed with caution. There is another setting under the 'Sound Settings' which relates to enabling multiple outputs, set this to 'On'. I have tried this and it works, movie plays without any banner popping up.


i hope that idea works.

5816.12.2010 20:29

fanlynne

great attempt at spamming us the the cartier $hit. Reported

5916.12.2010 22:47

yeah.. real quality that ..
I nicked the post.. should come in useful .. hehehehehe




ARR! Them pesky Navy! Get out of my sea!
irc://irc.villageirc.net/afterdawn http://www.pirateparty.org.uk/

6017.12.2010 2:32
nitsua
Unverified new user

I switched from Linear PCM to Bitstream so my receiver does the decoding and that seemed to work. Unfortunately, if you do not have a receiver, I don't know another workaround.

6117.12.2010 2:59
nitsua8
Unverified new user

Nevermind that last post, it didn't work.

6218.12.2010 15:09

Originally posted by Kyo_47:
Select 'Sound Settings' under the 'Settings' section, select 'Optical' and place a tick against all output options. You will get a warning that this could damage speakers so proceed with caution. There is another setting under the 'Sound Settings' which relates to enabling multiple outputs, set this to 'On'. I have tried this and it works, movie plays without any banner popping up.


i hope that idea works.
a saw the entire movie resident evil afterlife, and did work, next day i try to see The Social network on my ps3 and that fuckin cinavia appears again, any other solution? i don't understand why it works the first time and now it doesn't work.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 18 Dec 2010 @ 15:44

6318.12.2010 18:56

in this link follow the video an d job done f**k you cinavia and sony www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Htgh9L87XY

6418.12.2010 19:02

it works for resident evil afterlife and salt...but doesn't work for The Social Network, maybe because it's new movie with new update protecion cinavia.

6519.12.2010 5:09

Originally posted by Kyo_47:
it works for resident evil afterlife and salt...but doesn't work for The Social Network, maybe because it's new movie with new update protecion cinavia.
ive watched social network through a memory stick on my ps3 and had no probs after using the sound settings work around www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Htgh9L87XY

6619.12.2010 11:00

i have the firmware 3.55, and doesn't work for The social network, only play 20 minutes with audio.

6720.12.2010 3:40

Originally posted by eza17:
2. If the above doesn't work then this one will (similar to ljbanner's method). When the cinavia message pops up, go to the date/time settings and set the hour back 1. Try playing the movie again and the banner should come straight up. Go back to date/time settings and move the hour forward again. You should now get another 20 mins.
The 'audio settings' workaround can be a bit hit and miss and it seems to depend on what the ps3 decides to do with the audio. If you do still have a problem then the above method will work, it's better than nothing and only interrupts the movie for 20 seconds.

6824.12.2010 10:15
mikey7373
Unverified new user

Originally posted by eza17:
If you take just a quick look at the patents logged for this watermarking technology, you'll know there wont be a solution any time soon. The patents mention any attacks you might readily think of such as analysing/editing in audio software. I've done several experiments and know these facts:

It isn't affected by small time increases/decreases.
It is reliably detected within 4 seconds of audio.
It is not affected by direction i.e. it is still detected when playing audio backwards.

There are currently 2 workarounds for a PS3 on firmware 3.55:

1. Select 'Sound Settings' under the 'Settings' section, select 'Optical' and place a tick against all output options. You will get a warning that this could damage speakers so proceed with caution. There is another setting under the 'Sound Settings' which relates to enabling multiple outputs, set this to 'On'. I have tried this and it works, movie plays without any banner popping up.

2. If the above doesn't work then this one will (similar to ljbanner's method). When the cinavia message pops up, go to the date/time settings and set the hour back 1. Try playing the movie again and the banner should come straight up. Go back to date/time settings and move the hour forward again. You should now get another 20 mins.
Thank a lot. #1 worked. My Mannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

6930.12.2010 4:02
Shermhead
Unverified new user

PS3 goes on ebay and I wont reccomend it to any of my friends.

704.1.2011 11:02
julesrules9969
Unverified new user

I recently bought a pirated version of resident evil 4 on blu ray and it gives me this error. I have only seen people talking about this on their regular dvds but the protection is on blu ray too. Any way around this?

714.1.2011 17:02

can't help you as piracy is not condoned on this site.

7223.1.2011 1:40
gzu355
Unverified new user

Originally posted by eza17:
If you take just a quick look at the patents logged for this watermarking technology, you'll know there wont be a solution any time soon. The patents mention any attacks you might readily think of such as analysing/editing in audio software. I've done several experiments and know these facts:

It isn't affected by small time increases/decreases.
It is reliably detected within 4 seconds of audio.
It is not affected by direction i.e. it is still detected when playing audio backwards.

There are currently 2 workarounds for a PS3 on firmware 3.55:

1. Select 'Sound Settings' under the 'Settings' section, select 'Optical' and place a tick against all output options. You will get a warning that this could damage speakers so proceed with caution. There is another setting under the 'Sound Settings' which relates to enabling multiple outputs, set this to 'On'. I have tried this and it works, movie plays without any banner popping up.

2. If the above doesn't work then this one will (similar to ljbanner's method). When the cinavia message pops up, go to the date/time settings and set the hour back 1. Try playing the movie again and the banner should come straight up. Go back to date/time settings and move the hour forward again. You should now get another 20 mins.
option 1 worked great for resident evil afterlife, have not tried with any other movie yet. as soon as i do i will post the results

7331.1.2011 22:54
Crypto138
Unverified new user

Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by tin23uk:
i figured a way around the little cinavia problem and have a file protected by cinavia now playing perfectly on my ps3.
Fantastic!, and by the way I found out who created the Universe, but I'm not tell'n.... LOL
Well said.

741.2.2011 7:45
rollinsoundz
Unverified new user

Originally posted by Crypto138:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by tin23uk:
i figured a way around the little cinavia problem and have a file protected by cinavia now playing perfectly on my ps3.
Fantastic!, and by the way I found out who created the Universe, but I'm not tell'n.... LOL
Well said.
So please tell all it would be very helpful.

7510.2.2011 21:00
Dark Knight 2042
Unverified new user

Originally posted by rollinboy:
anyone confirm that this works...Quote...people with ps3's have you tryed this....I was able to watch it when I used convertxtodvd to burn the video and disconnected the PS3 from the internet. It played it just fine for me.

Last edited by yajdragon79 at 2010-05-20 12:29:12 anyone else with a ps3 who can't usually play this due to the cinavia crap confirm does this actually work ?
**I tried this and it doesnt work

7619.2.2011 16:36

Originally posted by asharif:
Good technology IMO, I'm all in favour of something which inconveniences the pikies / thieves...
Of course Sony are going to put some sort of anti-piracy technology into their consoles, when they have a major stake in the film industry!! *rolleyes*
The problem is that it affects consumers not just pirates. Say I want to put my blu-ray on a network server and play it back on a Cinavia enabled player... I own the disc I should be able to play it however I want

7716.3.2011 0:03

Originally posted by tucker001:
Couldn't you just make sure you disconnect from the internet on your ps3 before you try to play whatever file you want to watch?
Doesnt work, it doesnt connect to the internet to check for the watermark. Its a small bit of software that was part of the latest system update 3.60 that checks for it.

7816.3.2011 0:10

Originally posted by Dark Knight 2042:
Originally posted by rollinboy:
anyone confirm that this works...Quote...people with ps3's have you tryed this....I was able to watch it when I used convertxtodvd to burn the video and disconnected the PS3 from the internet. It played it just fine for me.

Last edited by yajdragon79 at 2010-05-20 12:29:12 anyone else with a ps3 who can't usually play this due to the cinavia crap confirm does this actually work ?
**I tried this and it doesnt work
Not a good idea to use burnt media in your ps3 anyway, some recordable dvd brands use cheap dyes which can cause the laser eye to stop working after repeated use. I had 2 ps3's stop reading disks in less than a year. Put your media on a usb flash drive and watch it from there. Been doing that with my 3rd one and no problems in 2.5 years.

7916.3.2011 21:02

it WILL eventually be bypassed in some way. it will just take some time. this will be interesting tho.

If "THEY" can think of a block to put infront of us, there is always someone out there JUST as smart as the creator to uncreate it :D


For Sale:

Parachute, Used Once, never opened small stain.
Best Offer!

8026.3.2011 21:02
Dolesen
Unverified new user

Im done buying ps3 games and wont be buying the psp2 which i have been wanting for a long time. sony ruined my ps3 system with this Cinavia crap.going for a multimedia system which do not support Cinavia but which still plays bluray.

812.4.2011 0:22

I used DVDFab to decode a movie only onto a DVD and when I played it on my PS3 I got the Cinavia Message 3 and muted audio. This was on a Netflix rented disc and was "The Tourist". Sucked. Played okay on my pc with VLC.


Sig: The mark of an expert isnt that he knows everything;
Its that he knows where to look everything up!

832.4.2011 14:11

Cinavia utilizes the audio track at frequencty that cant be heard by the human ear, Isn't there a way to narrow down the audio track so it will not play the frequency containing the cinavia bullcrap. I don't have the computer smarts to do this but someone out there could figure this out.

842.4.2011 14:16

Originally posted by klonk:
I used DVDFab to decode a movie only onto a DVD and when I played it on my PS3 I got the Cinavia Message 3 and muted audio. This was on a Netflix rented disc and was "The Tourist". Sucked. Played okay on my pc with VLC.
Now THAT is very interesting...hadn't heard of it being made available on retail discs...

852.4.2011 16:40

Hhhmm what version of DVDFab are you currently using because the newest release is said to address Cinavia issues ~ http://www.dvdfab.com/cinavia.htm


865.4.2011 16:18

Originally posted by hawk188:
Hey people-
FYI if you downgrade your PS3 to V3.01 and below, (i downgraded at 3.01) the bastard C*****via is not on that firware. I've tested with Karate Kid and Resiednt Evil After Life ( Bluray rips ) and 100% working. BTW - I have a fat Ps3 and using JBreak......
Hope this helps
Cheers
How do you downgrade PS3 to a previous firmware version?

875.4.2011 16:38

Originally posted by DVDBack23:
Originally posted by klonk:
I used DVDFab to decode a movie only onto a DVD and when I played it on my PS3 I got the Cinavia Message 3 and muted audio. This was on a Netflix rented disc and was "The Tourist". Sucked. Played okay on my pc with VLC.
Now THAT is very interesting...hadn't heard of it being made available on retail discs...
piracy talk edited by ddp
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Apr 2011 @ 17:08

885.4.2011 17:07

klonk, what you are talking about is piracy which is not condoned on this site, post edited.

896.4.2011 11:27
slave1zero
Unverified new user

Originally posted by dsguardin:
So does anyone here with a PS3 know when this Cinavia crap was put into the PS3? I'm assuming it was bundled with a recent firmware update. Just a guess.

As for AnyDVD, don't get me wrong, I love Slysoft and I sure hope to hell that they find a fairly easy fix for this, but if it's already embedded into the audio stream, I just don't see how they'd be able to remove that.

So, in the inevitable event that they eventually start putting this new watermark into DVDs and Blu Ray discs (which you know they will), it seems there are only two options - A, figure out a way to bypass the encryption on the disc itself (ala AnyDVD HD), or B, try the extremely difficult task of trying to hack the Blu Ray player (depending on the model). Or, if you have an older Blu Ray player, don't download any firmware updates and hope to hell that it keeps on working properly. I'm going to be extremely curious to see what Slysoft's view on this is.
Its in the 3.60 firmware update mate, which unfortunately is needed to play the ps3 online so that sucks - re-encode the audio or convert the movie to dvd and re-rip to mp4 or avi and that might solve the problem

906.4.2011 20:57

unsubscribe

919.4.2011 2:07
sh gdfsdfsgsgd
Unverified new user

edited by ddp sony cinavia and this site I'll download what I want when I want and watch it on my PC. PS3 is for gaming only.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Apr 2011 @ 21:10

9210.4.2011 10:47

wouldn't the easiest way to get past this mess be to find the Cinavia code in the PS3 firmware and write a patch to the PS3 update file to disable it? PS3 has to ALWAYS allow an update, right?

come on all you coders out there, help us out! pleeeeease :)

9310.4.2011 10:47

they say that Cinavia garbage plays at multiple (inaudible) frequencies, which is why it doesn't get removed after re-encoding.

wouldn't the easiest way to get past this mess be to find the Cinavia code in the PS3 firmware and write a patch to the PS3 update file to disable it? PS3 has to ALWAYS allow an update, right?

according to Wikipedia, the Cinavia was added in PS3 update 3.10, so anything before that should be Cinavia-free :)

come on all you coders out there, help us out! pleeeeease :)

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Apr 2011 @ 10:57

darkflux

9416.4.2011 22:07
Karshnern1
Unverified new user

What About Using CopALL 700 It Will Copy Any Thing Costs $118.00

9517.4.2011 21:51

Originally posted by Karshnern1:
What About Using CopALL 700 It Will Copy Any Thing Costs $118.00
i believe that defeats the purpose of copying them...plus, does it even work against Cinavia?

darkflux

9622.4.2011 7:20
crazymichael
Unverified new user

cinavia and sony will know about it when people start selling there ps3 and when ps4 comes out and nobody buys it and i just watch movies on my pc now since theres no way to break the ps3 v3.60 i aint gonna pay 8 in the cinemas every time a wanna c a new film and 16 when its out on dvd when i mite not even like the film

9722.4.2011 19:35

seconded, though i won't be SELLING poor PS3, just rolling him back to before the Cinavia nightmare. it not his fault his creators overstepped their bounds (and without EITHER of our permission, no less).

you know, i find it funny that Sony warned users when they would no longer be able to install Linux, etc., but NOT about this bull$#!+ "update"/downgrade.


darkflux

9830.4.2011 13:02

Originally posted by teikyo30:
Why would anyone stream from a media server to ps3 then to the tv? That makes zero sense to me. Why not just connect directly to the tv via hdmi? Or get a tv with a usb port that accepts video? My Philips plays H.264 and Divx via the USB port. I have my 500 gig external plugged into it. When I have more money for a media server I'll probably have that plugged into it. And, yes, I will get a PS3 and plug that into it, but I won't stream from media server to ps3 to tv.
To do it all wireless without burning discs.

9910.5.2011 23:21
ps3 user
Unverified new user

Originally posted by dsguardin:
So here's what I'm wondering with regard to Blu Ray players. Say you buy a slightly older model Blu Ray player - for instance, a refurbished Samsung BD-P1500. Assuming that it doesn't automatically come with this new little Cinavia detector programmed into it, would it be safe to download the player's firmware updates? Would the Cinavia detector be part of a firmware update, or is that something that would have to already be installed into the player's hardware? Any guesses on this?
i have a 1st gen ps3 80g and because of firmware updates it has it and it didnt before so i dont think it matters. i download old tv she episodes no one cares about and i cant watch them, tried converting them with a ps3 converter and tunebites. both were pointless!

10011.5.2011 0:30

seconded. did the same thing to MY original PS3, dangit!

that IS the main reason for firmware: to add new "features", and since they are bound to put this new Cinavia crap on all BR players...unless Samsung is a particularly NICE evil corporation (though they DO have some of the nicest TVs around).

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 11 May 2011 @ 0:32

darkflux

10121.5.2011 15:09

Originally posted by AntiTryst:
360 seems to be cinavia DRM free, for now. Any movie I tried with the DRM on PS3 would lockup, but on the 360 they all played perfectly.
how do I play blu-ray disks on my xbox360

10221.5.2011 15:50

i believe he was referring to DVDs, since many people dL movies, then burn them to DVD, since BR discs are so *^cking expensive...

presently, only BRs have the Cinavia, but that may change soon :( . people rip them to MKVs and share them with others, who then make DVDs.

remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!

now maybe if they dropped the price of pre-rec DVDs like they said they would when the format first came out...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 21 May 2011 @ 15:52

darkflux

10328.5.2011 5:51

hi, basically any encryption is digital, i would suggest re encoding a movie with something like super@ where you can select audio and video codecs, use avi but with analogue audio like .wav

if it doesnt work, de multiplex the audio and run the audio through total record which records(captures) audio through the sound card not media player. then multiplex the audio back to the video.

the video will be clean of any encryption!

not sure how Cinavia works but i guess it could be an audio sound which you cannot hear but players pick up. mp3 usually removes ranges which you cannot hear so dropping the bitrate to 128 or less may work. if it is a digital signal then it will be removed in wav format ;-)

10428.5.2011 9:10

dude, not sure if you've been reading the comments page here (it IS pretty lengthy), but reencoding the audio won't work, as this Cinavia $#!+ is hard-coded into the audio stream in many frequencies (somehow all audibly imperceptible). it is the HARDWARE which determines whether or not to PLAY the sound, and it's making me wonder how long it will be before you get false positives, like they did with MacroVision tapes back in the day.

some guy even tried 96kbps audio, and it STILL caught it! the only TRUE way to remove the restrictions, is to remove the part of the firmware which detects the Cinavia in the first place!

since PS3 was MADE to accept firmware updates, alls it would take to fix it would be a decent patch from a skilled coder.

any takers? :)


darkflux

10528.5.2011 10:03

Thanks for the reply, I have read alot of the remarks. My point though is this.

all encryption is digital, i have been taking drm protected content (which would not play on my player and i had the original but some audio tracks wouldn't rip to player) and converting them and removing the DRM of ANY type and creating a audio protection free file.

sometimes we over complicate things. people (developers) no matter how good their protection have to do it within the confins of what they are producing i.e a movie which must be watched and listened to.

video must be visible and audio must be listened to.

They have chosen to embed the encryption in the audio it seems.

Total record has recorded audio for years from the speaker side of the track not before it enters the sound card using the processor like most rippers. it's like holding a microphone up to a speaker and recording the audio that way or a cam cinema rip which are terrible.

i have encoded a file with pcm(wav) audio which was protected next i will demux the audio and video and rerecord the audio track through total record and remux see what happens.

if the new protection is actually a sound then i can see why it cannot be done at present but a filter would get that frequency surely?

i'll post any results here and hope sombody cracks it soon, i use PS3 streaming from media server and only recently encountered this problem. most my films are years old.

10628.5.2011 11:07

Originally posted by teikyo30:
Why would anyone stream from a media server to ps3 then to the tv? That makes zero sense to me. Why not just connect directly to the tv via hdmi? Or get a tv with a usb port that accepts video? My Philips plays H.264 and Divx via the USB port. I have my 500 gig external plugged into it. When I have more money for a media server I'll probably have that plugged into it. And, yes, I will get a PS3 and plug that into it, but I won't stream from media server to ps3 to tv.
because the media server drive stays plugged into your router then all you pc's and ps3 can see it, no need to transfer usb drives around, all files can be downloaded to it and often like mine has a remote built in torrent client meaning you can use mobile phone to search torrents and send info to drive which downloads the torrent file then ps3 and others can instantly pick it up and maybe play it remotely on you psp without even going home LOL

10728.5.2011 11:59

Originally posted by corps2012:
Thanks for the reply, I have read alot of the remarks. My point though is this.

all encryption is digital, i have been taking drm protected content (which would not play on my player and i had the original but some audio tracks wouldn't rip to player) and converting them and removing the DRM of ANY type and creating a audio protection free file.

sometimes we over complicate things. people (developers) no matter how good their protection have to do it within the confins of what they are producing i.e a movie which must be watched and listened to.

video must be visible and audio must be listened to.

They have chosen to embed the encryption in the audio it seems.

Total record has recorded audio for years from the speaker side of the track not before it enters the sound card using the processor like most rippers. it's like holding a microphone up to a speaker and recording the audio that way or a cam cinema rip which are terrible.

i have encoded a file with pcm(wav) audio which was protected next i will demux the audio and video and rerecord the audio track through total record and remux see what happens.

if the new protection is actually a sound then i can see why it cannot be done at present but a filter would get that frequency surely?

i'll post any results here and hope sombody cracks it soon, i use PS3 streaming from media server and only recently encountered this problem. most my films are years old.
let me know how that works, i'm interested in hearing it, if you'll pardon the pun :)

the Cinavia protection is not an "encryption", like DRM is, but is rather a wavelength played across multiple frequencies. that being said, even if someone were to get ahold of the original Cinavia "wavelength" code, ripping multiple frequencies out of an entire audio stream might make it sound "starnge" or at least unusual to the human ear. ever try removing a single frequency range from an audio track before? it's not only abit tricky, but afterwards, the audio clip sounds just abit "off".

i'm not saying to give up on it, oh no, just explaining what i know so far.

i've not tried streaming using a media server before, but i've heard from SOME people it doesn't keep the Cinavia from "working". do you still get the warning and muted audio when YOU stream?

darkflux

10828.5.2011 13:01

Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by corps2012:
Thanks for the reply, I have read alot of the remarks. My point though is this.

all encryption is digital, i have been taking drm protected content (which would not play on my player and i had the original but some audio tracks wouldn't rip to player) and converting them and removing the DRM of ANY type and creating a audio protection free file.

sometimes we over complicate things. people (developers) no matter how good their protection have to do it within the confins of what they are producing i.e a movie which must be watched and listened to.

video must be visible and audio must be listened to.

They have chosen to embed the encryption in the audio it seems.

Total record has recorded audio for years from the speaker side of the track not before it enters the sound card using the processor like most rippers. it's like holding a microphone up to a speaker and recording the audio that way or a cam cinema rip which are terrible.

i have encoded a file with pcm(wav) audio which was protected next i will demux the audio and video and rerecord the audio track through total record and remux see what happens.

if the new protection is actually a sound then i can see why it cannot be done at present but a filter would get that frequency surely?

i'll post any results here and hope sombody cracks it soon, i use PS3 streaming from media server and only recently encountered this problem. most my films are years old.
let me know how that works, i'm interested in hearing it, if you'll pardon the pun :)

the Cinavia protection is not an "encryption", like DRM is, but is rather a wavelength played across multiple frequencies. that being said, even if someone were to get ahold of the original Cinavia "wavelength" code, ripping multiple frequencies out of an entire audio stream might make it sound "starnge" or at least unusual to the human ear. ever try removing a single frequency range from an audio track before? it's not only abit tricky, but afterwards, the audio clip sounds just abit "off".

i'm not saying to give up on it, oh no, just explaining what i know so far.

i've not tried streaming using a media server before, but i've heard from SOME people it doesn't keep the Cinavia from "working". do you still get the warning and muted audio when YOU stream?
yep when streaming from server connected to router and ps3 wireless still get the message and refuses to play.

has anybody reported a cam avi being stopped? if it is an audio frequency embedded in the stream and just humans cannot hear even a cam would pick it up. i've just converted a film to divx with pcm audio at a low rate on mono just to see. later i'll try ripping the stream then running through totalrecord. see how that works.
thanks for talking and not just flaming, just trying to see how it works. more heads are better than one and sometimes a simple idea can sort things we'll see.

10928.5.2011 13:21

well demuxing fails at the 10.10mins. so it trips up software for seperating the audio, i'll try some old stuff

11029.5.2011 0:55

Originally posted by corps2012:
well demuxing fails at the 10.10mins. so it trips up software for seperating the audio, i'll try some old stuff
i wouldn't give up on demuxing so easily. what software are you using? i've had issues with SOME freeware, but i've never failed yet when using TMPGEnc Xpress.

11129.5.2011 7:17

i'm still trying to mux it back. demux failed using software so i used convertxtodvd to create a dvd image then magicdvd ripper to rip the audio track instead LOL

alot of this new software seems rubbish even totalrecord cannot record on my netbook which i'm using, means installing all again on other pc downstairs. pain in the backside.

was using elcard xmuxer pro but not sure how to use it, i used to use dvdlab years back.

i'll post back and results if i get anywhere thanks

11229.5.2011 7:30

What happens if the PS3 is connected to a sound system/AV receiver, and the audio decoding is done at the receiver's end? Or,Forget the PS3 or other DRM junk players...get a nice Boxee, plays everything
like a champ...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 May 2011 @ 7:33

11329.5.2011 8:02

it's actually very easy to play the movies i have even with the cinavia encryption as the pc plays fine, i could hook my pc up to tv as i was originally planning.

it's just i have my ps3 hooked up and can't be bothered plugging pc's up it just looks crap LOL

there are loads of ways of playing the videos just ps3 was convenient.

11429.5.2011 8:45

Originally posted by corps2012:
...

there are loads of ways of playing the videos just ps3 was convenient.



Was is the key word...By the time you spend an entire hour converting/muxing/demuxing and such, you would be done watching the movie. Sometimes, you just have to cut your losses and make peace...PS3 is a good game console, a pain in the crotch to play many movies. I went for a better player(that's why I suggested the Boxee Box), and never looked back.

11529.5.2011 13:01

Originally posted by cyprusrom:
Was is the key word...By the time you spend an entire hour converting/muxing/demuxing and such, you would be done watching the movie.
yeah, but unlike MOST people, there are those of us who will work HARDER to make life easier for EVERYONE :) i DO love a challenge, and this one is nothing if not challenging! also, i'm of the mind that likes to know how things work, so i can work AROUND them :) the hacking type, really.

but if you want something EASY, why not just use a regular DVD player (Boxee was a good idea, too)? any old cheapo player will play these discs, i just want to have my PS3 working the way I want it to work!

Originally posted by cyprusrom:
What happens if the PS3 is connected to a sound system/AV receiver, and the audio decoding is done at the receiver's end?
i don't believe there is an option for that on PS3 (at least not that i can find), probably for this very reason!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 29 May 2011 @ 13:11

darkflux

11629.5.2011 13:17

Originally posted by corps2012:
i'm still trying to mux it back. demux failed using software so i used convertxtodvd to create a dvd image then magicdvd ripper to rip the audio track instead LOL

alot of this new software seems rubbish even totalrecord cannot record on my netbook which i'm using, means installing all again on other pc downstairs. pain in the backside.

was using elcard xmuxer pro but not sure how to use it, i used to use dvdlab years back.
never had any luck with Elecard software. not that the software itself was crummy, but the drivers and components seemed to just "not work". also, the MPEG decoder it came with ruined my MPEG-2 playback on WMP (i know, i know, it's lame to use WMP).

don't mean to sound pushy, but have you tried TMPGEnc yet? it muxes AND demuxes, and i've never had a situation where it wouldn't work. it's why i still use it ;)

darkflux

11729.5.2011 15:53

Originally posted by darkflux:

yeah, but unlike MOST people, there are those of us who will work HARDER to make life easier for EVERYONE :) i DO love a challenge, and this one is nothing if not challenging! also, i'm of the mind that likes to know how things work, so i can work AROUND them :) the hacking type, really.


If you put it that way, it sounds much more like fun!
I used to do stuff just to beat the system, I guess i just got old and found entertainment in different challenges...Like trying to make it to the bathroom in time:).
Have fun mate, good luck cracking this one!
Quote:
i don't believe there is an option for that on PS3 (at least not that i can find), probably for this very reason!

 Originally posted by cyprusrom: What happens if the PS3 is connected to a sound system/AV receiver, and the audio decoding is done at the receiver's end? 


Not necessarily for this reason, The PS3 came out before Cinavia was invented...



Piss me off, and I Will ignore You!

11829.5.2011 18:36

Originally posted by cyprusrom:
Not necessarily for this reason, The PS3 came out before Cinavia was invented...

what i meant was that when they integrated the Cinavia garbage code, they probably put it in where it will run BEFORE it passes off the audio. that's what i would do if i was an evil prick >:)

darkflux

11930.5.2011 8:11

from what I'm reading Cinavia is an audio water mark I have a cam avi copy of a new movie and it errors as well.
If it is an audio water mark it would be the whole length of the movie.

no offense intended to the moderator but all those who are posting here are trying to get a pirated copy of movies to play on ps3 with out Cinavia getting in the way.

Cinavia doesn't upset me although its annoying Sony is just trying to stop pirating if it affects movies you have payed for legally then its wrong but if you didn't pay for it you can't complain.

we all have 2 choices 1 pay for ether cinema or DVD or choice 2 just out smart them by looking for loopholes in Cinavia or the ps3.

Maybe use audio editors to flip the Cinavia audio track and play it over its self to mute out the Cinavia water mark.

p.s recording from t.v or radio is also illegal even if its on TIVO or HD recorder

12030.5.2011 8:17

I'm sorry its not quite a watermarking its an sound more like an audio bar coding which explains why bought DVDs can be played on ps3

12130.5.2011 23:29

Originally posted by ceazer:
no offense intended to the moderator but all those who are posting here are trying to get a pirated copy of movies to play on ps3 with out Cinavia getting in the way.

not ALL of us are like that. some of us are just resentful towards S0ny for putting unnecessary JUNK on our systems without telling us first. at LEAST they warned us before negating our ability to use Linux, but they just snuck this one in without any prior notice. i had one of the EARLIEST MODELS that still played PS2 games without missing a beat! and now it is bogged down with what i would neatly consider to be "bloatware".

also, some of us redo ALL our DVDs so that we can just skip RIGHT TO the movie. can you imagine back in the day buying a VHS videotape and not being able to FAST FORWARD over the previews? this is what it feels like, and now we are being treated like criminals without ever having "pirated" anything (forget my distaste for that term for now)!

Originally posted by ceazer:
p.s recording from t.v or radio is also illegal even if its on TIVO or HD recorder

THAT is utter nonsense... DishNetwork and DirectTV BOTH ofer TIVO-style PVRs to record shows, and in case you missed the court case in the 80's, recording TV for later viewing (and lending to friends, for that matter) is 100% LEGAL (in the U.S. anyways). not sure where you're @, but please don't speak for everyone without considering this website is multi-natinal...

Originally posted by ceazer:
Maybe use audio editors to flip the Cinavia audio track and play it over its self to mute out the Cinavia water mark.

...that actually gives me an idea. once somebody leaks the Cinavia "wavelength" sound clip or whatever, what if you "overwrote" the wavelength with an equally inaudible sound that "blocked out" the sound, so the PS3 wouldn't catch it. kind of like how an old typewriter would block out letters by stamping square "blocks" over the typed letters? just a thought for the community...

darkflux

12231.5.2011 0:49

Originally posted by wakko709:
Originally posted by AntiTryst:
360 seems to be cinavia DRM free, for now. Any movie I tried with the DRM on PS3 would lockup, but on the 360 they all played perfectly.
how do I play blu-ray disks on my xbox360
Google is your friend.

I just have to laugh.. All the DRM and other copyright protection has never worked. Why these fools keep pouring millions trying to stop pirates would be better spent if these people pull their heads out of their asses and just produce fair price product.
Dumb and dumber everyday.
Jeff.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 31 May 2011 @ 0:50

Cars, Guitars & Radiation.

12331.5.2011 0:57

Originally posted by dsguardin:
I have no real desire to download The Wolfman, but I was reading on Cinavia's website and what really concerns me is that they want to put this new audio watermark on future DVDs and Blu Ray discs. Right now I have an upconversion DVD player, but I would like to buy a Blu Ray player in the near future, and apparently ALL of the new models will have this crap built in. Guess I'll have to look for an older model on ebay. I looked at the Cinavia list of "integrated product manufacturers", but how on earth do you know if a certain Blu Ray model has this DRM or not? Damn, I hope somebody finds an easy fix for this, but if it's already embedded into the audio, I don't see how AnyDVD is going to be able to do anything about it.
Yes and the RGB supposed to be the, "analog hole" will be gone in 2012.
I really have no comment except these folks who do what they have no clue how A/V works. Analog or digital.
They get paid to slay. If it was legal, I would put them up against a wall and do a Valentines day massacre.
Dumb as dirt...
Jeff

12431.5.2011 1:08

Originally posted by Jeffrey_P:
Originally posted by dsguardin:
I have no real desire to download The Wolfman, but I was reading on Cinavia's website and what really concerns me is that they want to put this new audio watermark on future DVDs and Blu Ray discs. Right now I have an upconversion DVD player, but I would like to buy a Blu Ray player in the near future, and apparently ALL of the new models will have this crap built in. Guess I'll have to look for an older model on ebay. I looked at the Cinavia list of "integrated product manufacturers", but how on earth do you know if a certain Blu Ray model has this DRM or not? Damn, I hope somebody finds an easy fix for this, but if it's already embedded into the audio, I don't see how AnyDVD is going to be able to do anything about it.
Yes and the RGB supposed to be the, "analog hole" will be gone in 2012.
I really have no comment except these folks who do what they have no clue how A/V works. Analog or digital.
They get paid to slay. If it was legal, I would put them up against a wall and do a Valentines day massacre.
Dumb as dirt...
Jeff
2010? hahahaha
Oh well

12531.5.2011 1:20

Originally posted by Jeffrey_P:
I just have to laugh.. All the DRM and other copyright protection has never worked. Why these fools keep pouring millions trying to stop pirates would be better spent if these people pull their heads out of their asses and just produce fair price product.
i agree. if it was cheaper to buy the discs than it was to copy them, people would just do that (except for those of us who do it just to learn). people were STILL copying BluRays when blank BluRays cost more than prerecorded ones. it's all about learning the new tech's in-and-outs to them :)

darkflux

12631.5.2011 16:58

Jeffrey_P, next time edit your previous post instead of posting 3 in a row as per forum rules.
12. Repeated posts to increase total number of posts is not allowed. Especially if your message is the last in the thread, edit it rather than post a new message.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487

12731.5.2011 17:06

Originally posted by ddp:
Jeffrey_P, next time edit your previous post instead of posting 3 in a row as per forum rules.
12. Repeated posts to increase total number of posts is not allowed. Especially if your message is the last in the thread, edit it rather than post a new message.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
I'm sorry, I did what? Sometimes the edit function is not visible.

Certainly I'm not trying to increase my post count. I have better things to do then make myself look like a poster child, posting king and try to be the head of the class.
I apologize I guess....?.?
Jeff

12931.5.2011 17:34

Originally posted by ddp:
31 May 2011 @ 0:49 http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/839258/5478257
31 May 2011 @ 0:57 http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/839258/5478261
31 May 2011 @ 1:08 http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/839258/5478265
Interesting. I guess we all make mistakes. Like I said it was not intentional in the least bit.
Jeff

1301.6.2011 18:39

I tempenc but none worked on 7 home premium netbook. I used super@ to convert to mpg then oldskool DVDlab to demultiplex. also converting to dvd using convertxtodvd and ripping the audio using magicdvd ripper gave me the audio track.

next i wanted to re-record the sound using totalrecord in order to remove the encryption/code. the version i have is very old so wouldn't recognise the cinemaria.

i set totalrecord to record through the soundcard as i did when recording drm tracks.

started recording fine, then 1 minute into the sound faded in and out a little and a bit scratchy. volume bars in total record for input hit max and stayed there? media player classic contnued to play the audio fine.

on review of the recorded sound played fine for the minute then just high pitched scratch and squeel for the rest of recording.

how can it trip up software which was made years before it's conception?

might try a loop 3.5 jack from speaker to line-in but if it's recorded on cams then there is little chance.

it's beyond what i know and seems it will need a filter to rip it out,

1313.6.2011 21:32

My PS3 just forced me to upgrade to version 2.3

Peace.

1324.6.2011 8:57

Originally posted by corps2012:
I tempenc but none worked on 7 home premium netbook. I used super@ to convert to mpg then oldskool DVDlab to demultiplex. also converting to dvd using convertxtodvd and ripping the audio using magicdvd ripper gave me the audio track.

next i wanted to re-record the sound using totalrecord in order to remove the encryption/code. the version i have is very old so wouldn't recognise the cinemaria.

i set totalrecord to record through the soundcard as i did when recording drm tracks.

started recording fine, then 1 minute into the sound faded in and out a little and a bit scratchy. volume bars in total record for input hit max and stayed there? media player classic contnued to play the audio fine.

on review of the recorded sound played fine for the minute then just high pitched scratch and squeel for the rest of recording.

how can it trip up software which was made years before it's conception?

might try a loop 3.5 jack from speaker to line-in but if it's recorded on cams then there is little chance.

it's beyond what i know and seems it will need a filter to rip it out,
i'm telling you man, from what i've read and what i myself have experienced, the Cinavia junk is NOT something that affects software. it is inperceptible to the human ear, and is interwoven in the audio, much like the score, so it CANNOT stop a software like TotalRecord. looping the audio should have identical results as capturing directly. TotalRecord has some issues recording certain frequencies (like experienced when viewing a CAM. oftentimes it is the mechanical sounds of the videocam itself that will trip TotalRecord up, NOT the Cinavia mess.

there are no less than 4 different Cinavia codes, depending on the original media, and the "desired" response. NONE of these affect any program that is not designed with it in mind specifically... Cinavia is designed to withstand multiple copyings without losing the "watermark". read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia
Cinavia's website and several tech news websites say pretty much the same things.

still, there MUST be a way...



Originally posted by klonk:
My PS3 just forced me to upgrade to version 2.3

Peace.
lol, i wish MINE would force me to upgrade to 2.3!

P.S., don't you mean 3.2? lol
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Jun 2011 @ 8:59

darkflux

1334.6.2011 10:05

Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by corps2012:
I tempenc but none worked on 7 home premium netbook. I used super@ to convert to mpg then oldskool DVDlab to demultiplex. also converting to dvd using convertxtodvd and ripping the audio using magicdvd ripper gave me the audio track.

next i wanted to re-record the sound using totalrecord in order to remove the encryption/code. the version i have is very old so wouldn't recognise the cinemaria.

i set totalrecord to record through the soundcard as i did when recording drm tracks.

started recording fine, then 1 minute into the sound faded in and out a little and a bit scratchy. volume bars in total record for input hit max and stayed there? media player classic contnued to play the audio fine.

on review of the recorded sound played fine for the minute then just high pitched scratch and squeel for the rest of recording.

how can it trip up software which was made years before it's conception?

might try a loop 3.5 jack from speaker to line-in but if it's recorded on cams then there is little chance.

it's beyond what i know and seems it will need a filter to rip it out,
i'm telling you man, from what i've read and what i myself have experienced, the Cinavia junk is NOT something that affects software. it is inperceptible to the human ear, and is interwoven in the audio, much like the score, so it CANNOT stop a software like TotalRecord. looping the audio should have identical results as capturing directly. TotalRecord has some issues recording certain frequencies (like experienced when viewing a CAM. oftentimes it is the mechanical sounds of the videocam itself that will trip TotalRecord up, NOT the Cinavia mess.

there are no less than 4 different Cinavia codes, depending on the original media, and the "desired" response. NONE of these affect any program that is not designed with it in mind specifically... Cinavia is designed to withstand multiple copyings without losing the "watermark". read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia
Cinavia's website and several tech news websites say pretty much the same things.

still, there MUST be a way...



Originally posted by klonk:
My PS3 just forced me to upgrade to version 2.3

Peace.
lol, i wish MINE would force me to upgrade to 2.3!

P.S., don't you mean 3.2? lol

Must have been a typo. Actually, System Information tell me I am now at System Software Version 3.61


Sig: The mark of an expert isnt that he knows everything;
Its that he knows where to look everything up!

1344.6.2011 10:49

Still can't type today.

Actually I logged into Playstation Store or Playstation Network first before logging into Netflix. Perhaps it was the Store, Network, or Netflix app that updated. Peace.


Sig: The mark of an expert isnt that he knows everything;
Its that he knows where to look everything up!

1357.6.2011 6:46

I know it's great being able to stream your movies from your pc to your ps3 to watch on your tv, but for the films that have the Cinavia problem, I have a Sumvision Cyclone. It cost me 18 and lets me plug my external hard drive with all my films into it. I then plug it into my tv using a HDMI lead and away I go. I only use it for the films I can't stream, but at least I don't have to worry about converting and burning onto a disk. Until a permanent solution is found, I'm happy with that. Hope that helps some of you, cheers.

1367.6.2011 10:09

Originally posted by moviegod68:
I know it's great being able to stream your movies from your pc to your ps3 to watch on your tv, but for the films that have the Cinavia problem, I have a Sumvision Cyclone. It cost me 18 and lets me plug my external hard drive with all my films into it. I then plug it into my tv using a HDMI lead and away I go. I only use it for the films I can't stream, but at least I don't have to worry about converting and burning onto a disk. Until a permanent solution is found, I'm happy with that. Hope that helps some of you, cheers.
my TV AND my regular DVD player will play dLed videos. but i WANT to play copied DVDs on my PS3!

it worked before, so i want it to work again!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Jun 2011 @ 21:53

darkflux

13714.6.2011 19:04
Azza315
Unverified new user

I read a few of these comments and i seemed to have cracked the issue... load it the movie on to your hdd and turn off your internet settings... i have had no interuption :0D

13814.6.2011 19:18

this won't work. a friend's PS3 has NEVER been connected to the internet, and still had this issue.

perhaps the disc you tried didn't HAVE the C!nav!a garbage on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia#List_of_Known_Blu-ray_Releases_with_Cinavia_Watermarking

13914.6.2011 19:44

Originally posted by darkflux:
this won't work. a friend's PS3 has NEVER been connected to the internet, and still had this issue.

perhaps the disc you tried didn't HAVE the C!nav!a garbage on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia#List_of_Known_Blu-ray_Releases_with_Cinavia_Watermarking

This is fact, it will not work unless the PS3 is on firmware version 3.1 or lower, which i guess is possible but highly unlikely.

14014.6.2011 20:29

Originally posted by DVDBack23:

This is fact, it will not work unless the PS3 is on firmware version 3.1 or lower, which i guess is possible but highly unlikely.
yeah. perhaps if it was an older PS3 that was never connected to internet, but any of the new slimline PS3s will likely have Cinavia nested in it somewhere...

14119.6.2011 9:52
PS3 winner
Unverified new user

Ok i dont know if it works but it worked for me but i was getting the gay cinavia message and then decided to move my ps3 to another tv and it never came up again... i didnt change any settings it just started working. hope this helps

14219.6.2011 21:05

Originally posted by PS3 winner:
Ok i dont know if it works but it worked for me but i was getting the gay cinavia message and then decided to move my ps3 to another tv and it never came up again... i didnt change any settings it just started working. hope this helps
you didn't happen to use different cables to connect, did you?

and about the TVs: was the one that worked an LCD or the older kind?

darkflux

1435.7.2011 18:24

do consumers not have any rights in this corrupt digital age?

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jul 2011 @ 18:56

1445.7.2011 18:53

i have a pioneer bdp 320 i dont play copies on it but im not putting some bullying lockdown virus onto it.
what will happen if they try to put cinavia on the original discs and its loaded onto my player from the actual original disc, without my knowledge or consent?? (didnt sony do this with some drm rootkit a while back? can we trust them not to pull the same anti consumer stunt again?).
what if my player cannot play the latest infected releases because i dont want to load this shit onto my player?
the only way to avoid this crap being forced onto my player from infected discs would be to not update the firmware and TO ONLY PLAY COPIED MOVIES ON IT. myself and many many others would have no choice but to use copies instead of continuing to buy originals!!!!

and another thing- ive read it will be forced on camcorders aswell. imagine- you spend 700 on a top spec camcorder, you buy some blank discs and blu ray recorder from the same manufacturer. you spend over 2 grand and then film your childs first steps or your wedding, you put the movie onto a disc and then it doesnt play because the cinavia disabled it, as some music from somewhere in the background triggers the drm. would you sue the manufacturer for ruining your precious memories? surely the equipment would be unfit for purpose? the so called entertainment industry once again makes money out of consumers and then shits on them big time. we should boycott anti consumer companies and give our money to the ones who actually show us the respect we deserve. if we all took our money elsewhere we could change the destiny of this industry.
there are people all over the world who dont watch copied movies but on principal wouldnt allow sony or any other corporate companies to bully or treat us like this.
innocent consumers like myself all over the world need to know about cinavia and similar issues before its too late.

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jul 2011 @ 18:59

1455.7.2011 19:43

@wagbo:
you don't need to worry about the discs having the Cinavia bull$#!+ on them, it is the players THEMSELVES which now have them. and as of Fall 2009, ALL NEW BLURAY PLAYERS HAVE THEM! this is something that is required by the founders of BluRay apparently. if your BR Player was made in 2010 or later (check for a sticker on the back sometimes), odds are good that it already HAS Cinavia. the only way around this would be to go online and get a model made before Cinavia was around.

also, Cinavia is indicated by the disc, and the indicator is encoded into the disc. the PLAYER detects which indicator is being played, and then blocks and pops up the appropriate message. your camcorder would only ENCODE using Cinavia if you TOLD it to. what YOU read is probably that running an audio/video feed thru a camcorder (which was a common way to get around copy protection back in the day) would not remove the Cinavia garbage audio frequency. otherwise, it would be pointless to own a camcorder if you couldn't play back the A/V...

you know, ever since BluRay won out over HD-DVDs (primarily because of the PS3), it's like they think they can do whatever they want, since consumers no longer have an option to choose one way or the other...

i for one will no longer buy BluRay discs until they fully cease production of these "protected" discs. and YES, i actually DID BUY BluRays instead of "pirating" them (when i thought that it was a good enough movie [and takes advantage of the HiDef] that i would watch it more than once). i always like to support my favorite director/actress/gaffer, in the movies that i love so much. not EVERY movie, mind you, but the quality ones, yes.

but no more! not until justice is returned, and Cinavia removed from my PS3/BluRay player, or at LEAST am given an option to remove the Cinavia junk from my player(s). after all, aren't the players (let alone the discs) expensive enough, that they need to do such dastardly deeds to them to siphon even MORE cash from your pocket, at the expense of quality?

your thoughts, fellow ADers...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jul 2011 @ 19:48

darkflux

1466.7.2011 19:25

there are many angry ps3 owners on here but there is a a solution. it may cost around 30 to 40 though.

why dont they buy a second hand cinavia free blu ray player off ebay? thats it. simple. they can still use their infected ps3 and even download more updates but use the ps3 for gaming only. then use the stand alone blu player for COPIED BACKUPS!!! that way, cinavia is totally useless. im sure some people would end up renting movies and just copying themto play on the second machine but thats the price the fatcats will have to pay for infecting innocent consumers machines in the first place. talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face!

i noticed a bdp s300 the other day going for 30 plus p&p. in the past ive owned a ps3 and a few stand alone blu ray players. i must say even the old bdp s300 has a noticeably better picture than the ps3. it makes sense to get one just to watch backup copies on.

im not inciting any law breaking but i am pointing out what is obvious!!!

1477.7.2011 2:41

Originally posted by wagbo:
there are many angry ps3 owners on here but there is a a solution. it may cost around 30 to 40 though.

why dont they buy a second hand cinavia free blu ray player off ebay? thats it. simple. they can still use their infected ps3 and even download more updates but use the ps3 for gaming only. then use the stand alone blu player for COPIED BACKUPS!!! that way, cinavia is totally useless. im sure some people would end up renting movies and just copying themto play on the second machine but thats the price the fatcats will have to pay for infecting innocent consumers machines in the first place. talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face!

i noticed a bdp s300 the other day going for 30 plus p&p. in the past ive owned a ps3 and a few stand alone blu ray players. i must say even the old bdp s300 has a noticeably better picture than the ps3. it makes sense to get one just to watch backup copies on.

im not inciting any law breaking but i am pointing out what is obvious!!!
This would certainly be a good work-around. Getting rid of it is the obvious first choice, but who know when or if this will happen. To go along with your suggestion we should try making a list or good esay way to make sure we can find and purchase a player. I guess older models from before the second half of 2009, when Blu-ray Disc players started including this crappolla. I believe there's a good list in the AnyDVD forums.

1487.7.2011 9:13

yeah, a list would be nice, but it would probably be easier to make a list of the models that HAVE the Cinavia junk on it as well, so that you can avoid them.

the downside to having a list of Cinavia-free players, is that the eBay sellers will eventually catch on to what's going on, and jack the prices for their players up. then they will start buying out the cheaper ones, and then reselling them for expensive prices...

a way around this would be to google for reviews for the players on sites like CNET, and whatever date the review is is likely the timeframe it was made in. that way, eBay Sellers wouldn't have a master list of what players to jack the prices up for (without doing their OWN legwork, that is). just a thought.

14931.7.2011 14:19

Why moan about sony etc stopping people from breaking the law and protecting their profits. every time some one gets a pirated film/cd etc instead of buying it, the companies lose out.

its against the law for a reason because its stealing from the companies, directors actors etc. if they dont make enough money they'll stop making films. so you wont be able to piraye films coz their wont be any films to pirate.

I haven't got a problem with pirated films but obviously it'll come to a point when its near impossible to pirate dvds. so just make the most of it while you can.

1501.8.2011 22:09
mike2321x
Unverified new user

Originally posted by hidehi:
Why moan about sony etc stopping people from breaking the law and protecting their profits. every time some one gets a pirated film/cd etc instead of buying it, the companies lose out.

its against the law for a reason because its stealing from the companies, directors actors etc. if they dont make enough money they'll stop making films. so you wont be able to piraye films coz their wont be any films to pirate.

I haven't got a problem with pirated films but obviously it'll come to a point when its near impossible to pirate dvds. so just make the most of it while you can.
lol your wrong people will always find a way to torrent movies. heck i have a friend who seems to be trying to find away to damage the unheard sound that cinavia responds too when his ripper copies the disk... what it basically will do is mute or heavily damage the sound waves to the point of it not being read able. seeing as you cant hear this protection you wouldn't hear the damaged sound waves when it plays

1512.8.2011 2:09

Originally posted by mike2321x:
Originally posted by hidehi:
Why moan about sony etc stopping people from breaking the law and protecting their profits. every time some one gets a pirated film/cd etc instead of buying it, the companies lose out.

its against the law for a reason because its stealing from the companies, directors actors etc. if they dont make enough money they'll stop making films. so you wont be able to piraye films coz their wont be any films to pirate.

I haven't got a problem with pirated films but obviously it'll come to a point when its near impossible to pirate dvds. so just make the most of it while you can.
lol your wrong people will always find a way to torrent movies. heck i have a friend who seems to be trying to find away to damage the unheard sound that cinavia responds too when his ripper copies the disk... what it basically will do is mute or heavily damage the sound waves to the point of it not being read able. seeing as you cant hear this protection you wouldn't hear the damaged sound waves when it plays
that is an AWESOME idea! let me know if your friend makes any hewadway on that :) we definitely need more innovators when it comes to people destroying our freedoms.

and to hidehi, dude, are you talking about the MILLIONS of dollars that the actors get while people like me can barely afford to RENT a single DVD a month? quite frankly, when DVDs (and CDs, for that matter) first came out, the music and movie industries promised that the prices would go down in them after they'd been out for awhile. that never happened, and NOW we have BLURAY discs, which are even MORE expensive! add to that the point that they were talking about MERGING the BluRay and DVD into a single package so that you couldn't buy one without the other, and you have yourself a serious issue with OVERCHARGING! in THIS HORRIBLE ECONOMY? they're lucky i still BUY any DVDs (i do, but must pace myself, so i don't get another disconnect notice on my electricity bill).

and if you STILL disagree with me, then i ask you this:
how is BUYING a DVD or CD and taking the time to rip it, upload it, and distribute it AT YOUR OWN COST any different than buying an apple and planting the seed, growing your own apples, and giving them to your friends (other than the time needed to grow a tree)? if the music and movie industries didn't want music and movies ripped to peoples' PCs and shared with other fans, why would they put it in a format that people can easily play in their computers?
CD Players > CD Drives > CD Burners
DVD Players > DVD Drives > DVD Burners
BluRay Players > BluRay Drives > BluRay Burners

it's simple logic.

darkflux

1522.8.2011 3:48

Originally posted by hidehi:
Why moan about sony etc stopping people from breaking the law and protecting their profits. every time some one gets a pirated film/cd etc instead of buying it, the companies lose out.

its against the law for a reason because its stealing from the companies, directors actors etc. if they dont make enough money theyll stop making films. so you wont be able to piraye films coz their wont be any films to pirate.

I havent got a problem with pirated films but obviously itll come to a point when its near impossible to pirate dvds. so just make the most of it while you can.
Yea right, the actors are going to get REAL JOBS. Never in a Million years will any of them get real jobs for regular pay.

1532.8.2011 5:47
DRMs = Proof of hell
Unverified new user

Or you can just ignore the whole effing cinavia crap, tell sony to go fuck themselves to high heavens. And use your brains and use your pc to playback movies :) have not had a problem, got a BD DvD combo drive from samsung, manufactured at Q3 of 2010. no cinavia crap on mah BD rips :) all hail the pirates and long live the piratebay for providing quality rips. saves me a huge amount of money when i want to find out which movie is actually worth paying the 7,5 euros to go and watch it in the cinema... the movie reviews are so fucking worthless to consumers these days.

1542.8.2011 15:44

Originally posted by DRMs = Proof of hell:
Or you can just ignore the whole effing cinavia crap, tell sony to go fuck themselves to high heavens. And use your brains and use your pc to playback movies :) have not had a problem, got a BD DvD combo drive from samsung, manufactured at Q3 of 2010. no cinavia crap on mah BD rips :) all hail the pirates and long live the piratebay for providing quality rips. saves me a huge amount of money when i want to find out which movie is actually worth paying the 7,5 euros to go and watch it in the cinema... the movie reviews are so fucking worthless to consumers these days.
you are right about so much it is scary! but i think that many of us want to be able to watch our movies on our BIG SCREEN TV, and not everyone has the leisure of connecting the PC to it. PLUS, we may want to take a movie to a friend's to watch, and if they have a PS3, we are kcufed!

the point is that it's OUR hardware, and we just want it to work the same way it always has up until recent months. i guarantee you that anybody who bought a PS3 when they first came out, if they got it home and they couldn't watch their movies? well, they'd just box it up and take it back, and maybe HD-DVD might have won the "HD wars" instead of BluRay...

darkflux

1554.8.2011 20:39
utcandy112
Unverified new user

Originally posted by tucker001:
Couldnt you just make sure you disconnect from the internet on your ps3 before you try to play whatever file you want to watch?
tried that. doesnt work.....

1565.8.2011 0:32

Originally posted by utcandy112:
Originally posted by tucker001:
Couldnt you just make sure you disconnect from the internet on your ps3 before you try to play whatever file you want to watch?
tried that. doesnt work.....
wow, abit late commenting on that old post!
but yeah, read this one for the reason:
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/article.cfm/2010/03/03/new_cinavia_drm_takes_aim_at_pirates?utm_medium=email&utm_source=notify-ENG&utm_campaign=news_comment#comment-5411650


darkflux

1577.10.2011 14:13
The Moose
Unverified new user

If i was to purchase the BOXEE to play these AVI files off an hard drive will that work versus my PS2

1584.12.2011 19:03

Press Releases / Announcements
AACS Announces Schedule for the Inclusion of Cinavia in Blu-ray Disc Players

Verance?s watermark-based content protection technology becomes mandatory

July 20, 2011 ? SAN DIEGO ? AACS LA, LLC today announced that, pursuant to the provisions of its license agreements with Blu-ray Disc player manufacturers, the inclusion of the Cinavia technology from Verance Corporation will become mandatory for all Blu-ray Disc players as of February 1, 2012.

Cinavia, the standard for protection of filmed entertainment content, employs Verance watermarking technologies to extend the existing content security architecture for Blu-ray Disc to protect against the use of unauthorized copies of commercial movies, such as those originating from in-theater camcording or ?ripped? Blu-ray Discs or DVDs. Cinavia has been licensed by major motion picture studios including Universal Studios, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Warner Bros. Entertainment, and Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation and employed in numerous theatrical, Blu-ray Disc, and DVD releases.

Cinavia has been an element of AACS? architecture since June 2009, when AACS LA issued their final technical specifications and license agreements. Since then, Cinavia has been licensed by dozens of Blu-ray Disc player and component manufacturers, integrated into leading Blu-ray Disc player chipsets, and deployed in over 45 million Blu-ray Disc players sold to consumers.

Source: (Offical Website)

1595.12.2011 13:37

Is Cinavia used on just Blu-Ray players and not on non Blu-Ray DVD players?

1605.12.2011 21:52

Originally posted by DADEO1:
Is Cinavia used on just Blu-Ray players and not on non Blu-Ray DVD players?
it is used on MANY new devices, including anything that plays BluRay discs, such as PS3s, but mostly on BluRay Players, as it is now mandatory, unfortunately.

the only current way to circumvent this is to get a player made before 2009, and now they are boosting the price on them on eBay, because they know they can...

1615.12.2011 22:48

http://www.dvdfab.com/cinavia.htm
"DVDFab Blu-ray Copy firstly supports Cinavia protection in the world and can lead you out of the above plight. How does it work? Blu-ray Copy now can copy any Blu-ray disc with Cinavia watermark, and create a protected disc (BDMV-REC) to disable Civania for playback on PS3. Keep in mind that you can only accomplish this in either "Full Disc" or "Main Movie" mode using Blu-ray Copy, check "Create Protected Disc (BDMV-REC) to disable Cinavia" option, and choose output as BD 50 / BD 25."

Im not sure if this works or what. Anyone try this?

1625.12.2011 23:49

it works, but you MUST use BDMV-REC compatible BR discs, which i am told costs more.

also, we STILL have not solved the problem of copying BR to DVD, as THEY still give much grief to the rest of us who don't own BR Burners...


darkflux

1639.12.2011 13:24

Just to let you know that DVDFab Has a DVD and BluRay decryptor. it does make a BDMV. You can burn it to a disc with ImgBurn. Then use any copy DVD or BluRay or converter program.

1649.12.2011 13:47

Originally posted by tinner45:
Just to let you know that DVDFab Has a DVD and BluRay decryptor. it does make a BDMV. You can burn it to a disc with ImgBurn. Then use any copy DVD or BluRay or converter program.
How does this help the Cinvaia issue?

1659.12.2011 19:32

Originally posted by tinner45:
Just to let you know that DVDFab Has a DVD and BluRay decryptor. it does make a BDMV. You can burn it to a disc with ImgBurn. Then use any copy DVD or BluRay or converter program.
yes, we all know now that DVDFab DECRYPTS the BluRay Cinavia discs. what i am saying is that it doesn't allow to to copy BluRay content to a DVD in a manner that allows it to play on a PS3 without the Cinavia bull$#!+.

once it can do THAT, let me know...

darkflux

16611.12.2011 8:30

Originally posted by DVDBack23:
Originally posted by tinner45:
Just to let you know that DVDFab Has a DVD and BluRay decryptor. it does make a BDMV. You can burn it to a disc with ImgBurn. Then use any copy DVD or BluRay or converter program.
How does this help the Cinvaia issue?
Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by tinner45:
Just to let you know that DVDFab Has a DVD and BluRay decryptor. it does make a BDMV. You can burn it to a disc with ImgBurn. Then use any copy DVD or BluRay or converter program.
yes, we all know now that DVDFab DECRYPTS the BluRay Cinavia discs. what i am saying is that it doesn't allow to to copy BluRay content to a DVD in a manner that allows it to play on a PS3 without the Cinavia bull$#!+.

once it can do THAT, let me know...
Look all I know is that It does does decrypt the move and one thing I didn't say is I use BD-RB to reencode and shrink or leave it the same but does take alot of time. I think BD-RB makes the BDMV protected and I burn Imgburn. I haven't heard anyone say there was any water marks,just agreat BluRay movie.

16713.12.2011 11:42
SetoKaiba
Unverified new user

Don't use blu-ray, or PS3, simply connect your TV to your PC over and HDMI cable, you can buy an VGA to HDMI converter if you video card doesn't have an HDMI port on it, most of them do these days. Its probably cheaper to buy an older used PC than it is to buy a new blu-ray player anyways. You can buy a 3TB external hard-drive for a $100 and store all your movies on there.

16821.12.2011 18:21

Originally posted by Kyo_47:
Select 'Sound Settings' under the 'Settings' section, select 'Optical' and place a tick against all output options. You will get a warning that this could damage speakers so proceed with caution. There is another setting under the 'Sound Settings' which relates to enabling multiple outputs, set this to 'On'. I have tried this and it works, movie plays without any banner popping up.


i hope that idea works.
well it doesn't so stop lying

16921.12.2011 18:24

i'm not lying, so dont say bullshit, still works for me and i still have kmeaw 3.55 firmware.

17021.12.2011 21:42

darkflux did you try BD-RB? It does give you a proteced disc. I don't know if it will play in a PS3 or not. You do have to decrypt the movie with DVDFaB then BD-RB will shrink it to a DVD-5 still in Bluray format.

1714.1.2012 12:33

Originally posted by darkflux:
i believe he was referring to DVDs, since many people dL movies, then burn them to DVD, since BR discs are so *^cking expensive...

presently, only BRs have the Cinavia, but that may change soon :( . people rip them to MKVs and share them with others, who then make DVDs.

remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!

now maybe if they dropped the price of pre-rec DVDs like they said they would when the format first came out...
So, I guess that means it's ok to steal content...Unbelievable!! If ya can't afford it, ya can't have it! Hell, I'd like a Ferrari, but I can't afford it... It doesn't give me the right to steal one!! Geez!

1724.1.2012 12:55

Also, it seems some people on this forum don't have a clue as to what they are dealing with in Cinavia....This is a badass DRM, man...Check out some of the posts in the Slysoft forum to get a feel for how difficult it will be to crack this one....It's not to say it won't be, but the DRM is tough....

It will not be defeated by some script kiddie in their basement....It is also adaptable, it has many different signals that can be used if it is broken...As a matter of fact, Verance EXPECTS it to be broken.....Commercial Blu-ray discs are on BD-ROMs, Cinavia can even detect what kind of MEDIA you are using, so anything other than a commercial BD-ROM will be rejected if that signal is encorporated on the backup disc....

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 04 Jan 2012 @ 13:17

1734.1.2012 17:02

Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
i believe he was referring to DVDs, since many people dL movies, then burn them to DVD, since BR discs are so *^cking expensive...

presently, only BRs have the Cinavia, but that may change soon :( . people rip them to MKVs and share them with others, who then make DVDs.

remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!

now maybe if they dropped the price of pre-rec DVDs like they said they would when the format first came out...
So, I guess that means it's ok to steal content...Unbelievable!! If ya can't afford it, ya can't have it! Hell, I'd like a Ferrari, but I can't afford it... It doesn't give me the right to steal one!! Geez!
i didn't "steal" anything! i bought the BluRay, and want to watch it at my friend's house. he doesn't have a BluRay player, and BluRay discs are not backwards compatible with DVDs, so i am stuck!

and how is it "stealing" when i BOUGHT the BluRay disc, BOUGHT the blank discs, BOUGHT the burner, and DONATED my personal time to this project? i've pitched out MORE than enough of my own money to pay back whomever you think it is i am "stealing" from. i am GIVING, and don't you try to pervert my words again!

darkflux

1744.1.2012 17:05

Originally posted by tinner45:
darkflux did you try BD-RB? It does give you a proteced disc. I don't know if it will play in a PS3 or not. You do have to decrypt the movie with DVDFaB then BD-RB will shrink it to a DVD-5 still in Bluray format.
yeah, i already said that we know you can use a blank BR disc to copy BR disacs for playback in PS3. you've been able to do this for quite some time now.

what you CANNOT do is to copy the BR disc to a DVD disc, and have it playback without Cin@via bugging you. the only TRUE way around this seems to be to undo the C!nav!a "update" to your PS3 (or break its functionality), without breaking the usability of the system...

darkflux

1755.1.2012 17:39

Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
i believe he was referring to DVDs, since many people dL movies, then burn them to DVD, since BR discs are so *^cking expensive...

presently, only BRs have the Cinavia, but that may change soon :( . people rip them to MKVs and share them with others, who then make DVDs.

remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!


now maybe if they dropped the price of pre-rec DVDs like they said they would when the format first came out...
So, I guess that means it's ok to steal content...Unbelievable!! If ya can't afford it, ya can't have it! Hell, I'd like a Ferrari, but I can't afford it... It doesn't give me the right to steal one!! Geez!
i didn't "steal" anything! i bought the BluRay, and want to watch it at my friend's house. he doesn't have a BluRay player, and BluRay discs are not backwards compatible with DVDs, so i am stuck!

and how is it "stealing" when i BOUGHT the BluRay disc, BOUGHT the blank discs, BOUGHT the burner, and DONATED my personal time to this project? i've pitched out MORE than enough of my own money to pay back whomever you think it is i am "stealing" from. i am GIVING, and don't you try to pervert my words again!
Look, I did not accuse you of stealing, just read what is in bold type...THAT is what I was commenting on....If you bought the disc, then no biggie.....

1765.1.2012 19:22

Originally posted by donthetech:

Look, I did not accuse you of stealing, just read what is in bold type...THAT is what I was commenting on....If you bought the disc, then no biggie.....
and just what is wrong with sharing? i bought the movie. should i not be allowed to share it?

i could copy the parts for a Ferrari and build my own, it still doesn't make it stealing...
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 05 Jan 2012 @ 19:26

darkflux

1776.1.2012 0:42

DARKFLUX have you tried BD-RB yet? BD-RB does take care of the Cinavia. You keep saying that no program will put BD on a DVD and plaly on PS3 and you never have said if you used BD-RB yet. Sure it takes time to shrink to a DVD but you'll have a great movie.

1786.1.2012 11:40

Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by donthetech:

Look, I did not accuse you of stealing, just read what is in bold type...THAT is what I was commenting on....If you bought the disc, then no biggie.....
and just what is wrong with sharing? i bought the movie. should i not be allowed to share it?

i could copy the parts for a Ferrari and build my own, it still doesn't make it stealing...
Granted, but I'm willing to bet you will need licensing from Ferrari to copy those parts in order for it to be legal, inj which case you bought the licensing so it's ok to make the part.....You can't tell me that THIS part of your post doesn't condone stealing. "remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!" You mean to tell me someone can't trot down to the ol' Redbox kiosk and pay 1.50 or whatever it is now and rent a movie? C'mon! Again, if you bought the movie, you paid for it, so if you want to share something you paid for for free, more power to you....I don't mean having people over to watch the film, I mean giving a film you bought to someone else to copy....I know about the Doctrine of First Sale, but giving a new release DVD or Blu-ray to a friend or relative TO COPY it is a non-starter for me......

1797.1.2012 0:28

Originally posted by tinner45:
DARKFLUX have you tried BD-RB yet? BD-RB does take care of the Cinavia. You keep saying that no program will put BD on a DVD and plaly on PS3 and you never have said if you used BD-RB yet. Sure it takes time to shrink to a DVD but you'll have a great movie.

i don't HAVE a BR burner, just a DVD-RW drive. but i've already TOLD you that i KNOW you can copy BluRays that are not affected by Cinavia! but the Cinavia is STILL on them! PS3 just doesn't STOP them from working, since they have the copy protection on them.

so even copying them to DVD AFTER this is done is pointless, since you will still need to contend with the Cinavi@ BS...

AGAIN, copying to a BD-RB does NOT REMOVE Cinav!a! it merely keeps it from popping up with the warnings...

darkflux

1807.1.2012 0:36

Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by donthetech:

Look, I did not accuse you of stealing, just read what is in bold type...THAT is what I was commenting on....If you bought the disc, then no biggie.....
and just what is wrong with sharing? i bought the movie. should i not be allowed to share it?

i could copy the parts for a Ferrari and build my own, it still doesn't make it stealing...
Granted, but I'm willing to bet you will need licensing from Ferrari to copy those parts in order for it to be legal, inj which case you bought the licensing so it's ok to make the part.....You can't tell me that THIS part of your post doesn't condone stealing. "remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!" You mean to tell me someone can't trot down to the ol' Redbox kiosk and pay 1.50 or whatever it is now and rent a movie? C'mon! Again, if you bought the movie, you paid for it, so if you want to share something you paid for for free, more power to you....I don't mean having people over to watch the film, I mean giving a film you bought to someone else to copy....I know about the Doctrine of First Sale, but giving a new release DVD or Blu-ray to a friend or relative TO COPY it is a non-starter for me......
okay, one: you only need a license to copy a part if it is
a. an exact duplicate, and
b. you are planning on selling it, or selling it as a Ferrari, at the very least. you know how many cars have IDENTICAL insides, but the outside looks different, and so they are able to sell them as "different" cars?!? check some Haynes manuals out, and then get back to me, as i have YET to see anyone SELLING or MAKING MONEY from copying DVDs. typically, it is the opposite...

and two: i know MANY people who CAN rent RedBox movies, and some DO! then they get them home and copy them, so that they can share the "wealth" with their family and friends, who may be jobless, or on just enough welfare for food. why should the innocent suffer while around the corner or down the block, somebody is laughing and gleeful, watching whatever horrible Adam Sandler movie they've cooked up this month?
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 Jan 2012 @ 0:37

darkflux

1817.1.2012 10:18

I just wanted to inform you that regular DVDs rented from Redbox, BlockbusterExpress, or Netflix, NOT BR discs, some have Cinavia on them. So using DVDFab to copy a non-BR disc will prevent the PS3 from playing a copy of a non-BR disc on a PS3 also. My point is Cinavia is not only on BlueRay discs, but on regular DVDs as well.


Sig: The mark of an expert isnt that he knows everything;
Its that he knows where to look everything up!

1827.1.2012 13:35

Originally posted by klonk:
I just wanted to inform you that regular DVDs rented from Redbox, BlockbusterExpress, or Netflix, NOT BR discs, some have Cinavia on them. So using DVDFab to copy a non-BR disc will prevent the PS3 from playing a copy of a non-BR disc on a PS3 also. My point is Cinavia is not only on BlueRay discs, but on regular DVDs as well.
it's begun...

1838.1.2012 12:05

Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by klonk:
I just wanted to inform you that regular DVDs rented from Redbox, BlockbusterExpress, or Netflix, NOT BR discs, some have Cinavia on them. So using DVDFab to copy a non-BR disc will prevent the PS3 from playing a copy of a non-BR disc on a PS3 also. My point is Cinavia is not only on BlueRay discs, but on regular DVDs as well.
it's begun...
I originally posted this on 04/02/2011 (post #81). At least with regular DVDs, you can play them on a non-Blue Ray player. You don't have that option with a Blue Ray player or a PS3.

Sig: The mark of an expert isnt that he knows everything;
Its that he knows where to look everything up!

1848.1.2012 14:20

Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by donthetech:

Look, I did not accuse you of stealing, just read what is in bold type...THAT is what I was commenting on....If you bought the disc, then no biggie.....
and just what is wrong with sharing? i bought the movie. should i not be allowed to share it?

i could copy the parts for a Ferrari and build my own, it still doesn't make it stealing...
Granted, but I'm willing to bet you will need licensing from Ferrari to copy those parts in order for it to be legal, inj which case you bought the licensing so it's ok to make the part.....You can't tell me that THIS part of your post doesn't condone stealing. "remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!" You mean to tell me someone can't trot down to the ol' Redbox kiosk and pay 1.50 or whatever it is now and rent a movie? C'mon! Again, if you bought the movie, you paid for it, so if you want to share something you paid for for free, more power to you....I don't mean having people over to watch the film, I mean giving a film you bought to someone else to copy....I know about the Doctrine of First Sale, but giving a new release DVD or Blu-ray to a friend or relative TO COPY it is a non-starter for me......
okay, one: you only need a license to copy a part if it is
a. an exact duplicate, and
b. you are planning on selling it, or selling it as a Ferrari, at the very least. you know how many cars have IDENTICAL insides, but the outside looks different, and so they are able to sell them as "different" cars?!? check some Haynes manuals out, and then get back to me, as i have YET to see anyone SELLING or MAKING MONEY from copying DVDs. typically, it is the opposite...

and two: i know MANY people who CAN rent RedBox movies, and some DO! then they get them home and copy them, so that they can share the "wealth" with their family and friends, who may be jobless, or on just enough welfare for food. why should the innocent suffer while around the corner or down the block, somebody is laughing and gleeful, watching whatever horrible Adam Sandler movie they've cooked up this month?
Ok, To your first point, I am not going to digress away from the main issue of piracy....As for people who try to sell copied rental DVD's, I knew a number of them and blew in each one to the authorities as I do not condone the practice....

To your second point, are you kidding me? This is the very reason a DRM like Cinavia exists in the first place...So it's ok for someone to RENT a movie, copy it and give it away to someone else just because they are downtrodden, poor, on welfare, etc....First of all, it's not that person's disc to give away, and doing so isn't considered stealing? HUH?

It is my hope Cinavia is the DRM that will put the clamps on this activity, but I'm wise enough to know it's a possibility that it can be broken, but it's ability to adapt is different and that firmware updates can force it onto devices....Like I said before, this DRM is badass......

1858.1.2012 14:55

Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by donthetech:

Look, I did not accuse you of stealing, just read what is in bold type...THAT is what I was commenting on....If you bought the disc, then no biggie.....
and just what is wrong with sharing? i bought the movie. should i not be allowed to share it?

i could copy the parts for a Ferrari and build my own, it still doesn't make it stealing...
Granted, but I'm willing to bet you will need licensing from Ferrari to copy those parts in order for it to be legal, inj which case you bought the licensing so it's ok to make the part.....You can't tell me that THIS part of your post doesn't condone stealing. "remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!" You mean to tell me someone can't trot down to the ol' Redbox kiosk and pay 1.50 or whatever it is now and rent a movie? C'mon! Again, if you bought the movie, you paid for it, so if you want to share something you paid for for free, more power to you....I don't mean having people over to watch the film, I mean giving a film you bought to someone else to copy....I know about the Doctrine of First Sale, but giving a new release DVD or Blu-ray to a friend or relative TO COPY it is a non-starter for me......
okay, one: you only need a license to copy a part if it is
a. an exact duplicate, and
b. you are planning on selling it, or selling it as a Ferrari, at the very least. you know how many cars have IDENTICAL insides, but the outside looks different, and so they are able to sell them as "different" cars?!? check some Haynes manuals out, and then get back to me, as i have YET to see anyone SELLING or MAKING MONEY from copying DVDs. typically, it is the opposite...

and two: i know MANY people who CAN rent RedBox movies, and some DO! then they get them home and copy them, so that they can share the "wealth" with their family and friends, who may be jobless, or on just enough welfare for food. why should the innocent suffer while around the corner or down the block, somebody is laughing and gleeful, watching whatever horrible Adam Sandler movie they've cooked up this month?
Ok, To your first point, I am not going to digress away from the main issue of piracy....As for people who try to sell copied rental DVD's, I knew a number of them and blew in each one to the authorities as I do not condone the practice....

To your second point, are you kidding me? This is the very reason a DRM like Cinavia exists in the first place...So it's ok for someone to RENT a movie, copy it and give it away to someone else just because they are downtrodden, poor, on welfare, etc....First of all, it's not that person's disc to give away, and doing so isn't considered stealing? HUH?

It is my hope Cinavia is the DRM that will put the clamps on this activity, but I'm wise enough to know it's a possibility that it can be broken, but it's ability to adapt is different and that firmware updates can force it onto devices....Like I said before, this DRM is badass......
if badass means taking away your ability to make 1 copy and interfering with hardware interfaces(check starforce it was so badass it destroyed peoples harddrives) then yeah its pretty dame good at breaking its own law or making other people break it, so badass man.

Powered By

1868.1.2012 19:19

if badass means taking away your ability to make 1 copy and interfering with hardware interfaces(check starforce it was so badass it destroyed peoples harddrives) then yeah its pretty dame good at breaking its own law or making other people break it, so badass man.


That is the dilemma, isn't it?....How do the content owners protect their movies, etc, from piracy while allowing legit owners of discs to make a backup copy without breaking encryption?

It's not breaking the law, it MADE the law, with the help of Congress...I always wonder who the moron was that helped pass a law where people are allowed to make a backup, but have to break encryption in order to do it?

If Starforce did that to people's hard drives, it was badass, no doubt.....

I think the closest thing to anything addressing this issue is Ultraviolet ecosystem.....If the hype is realized, I think it could be a good thing for digital distribution, get away from physical discs, and purchase digital downloads for storage locally....I am doing that now with some online services...

Some may be interested in the concept, others will continue to pirate as long as they can because they don't want to pay for content under any circumstances.....

1879.1.2012 15:14

Originally posted by klonk:
Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by klonk:
I just wanted to inform you that regular DVDs rented from Redbox, BlockbusterExpress, or Netflix, NOT BR discs, some have Cinavia on them. So using DVDFab to copy a non-BR disc will prevent the PS3 from playing a copy of a non-BR disc on a PS3 also. My point is Cinavia is not only on BlueRay discs, but on regular DVDs as well.
it's begun...
I originally posted this on 04/02/2011 (post #81). At least with regular DVDs, you can play them on a non-Blue Ray player. You don't have that option with a Blue Ray player or a PS3.
hmm, sorry. i didn't realize you were talking about DVD. it didn't say so in your Post, so i thought you'd rented a BluRay. that sucks...

1889.1.2012 15:23

Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by donthetech:

Look, I did not accuse you of stealing, just read what is in bold type...THAT is what I was commenting on....If you bought the disc, then no biggie.....
and just what is wrong with sharing? i bought the movie. should i not be allowed to share it?

i could copy the parts for a Ferrari and build my own, it still doesn't make it stealing...
Granted, but I'm willing to bet you will need licensing from Ferrari to copy those parts in order for it to be legal, inj which case you bought the licensing so it's ok to make the part.....You can't tell me that THIS part of your post doesn't condone stealing. "remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!" You mean to tell me someone can't trot down to the ol' Redbox kiosk and pay 1.50 or whatever it is now and rent a movie? C'mon! Again, if you bought the movie, you paid for it, so if you want to share something you paid for for free, more power to you....I don't mean having people over to watch the film, I mean giving a film you bought to someone else to copy....I know about the Doctrine of First Sale, but giving a new release DVD or Blu-ray to a friend or relative TO COPY it is a non-starter for me......
okay, one: you only need a license to copy a part if it is
a. an exact duplicate, and
b. you are planning on selling it, or selling it as a Ferrari, at the very least. you know how many cars have IDENTICAL insides, but the outside looks different, and so they are able to sell them as "different" cars?!? check some Haynes manuals out, and then get back to me, as i have YET to see anyone SELLING or MAKING MONEY from copying DVDs. typically, it is the opposite...

and two: i know MANY people who CAN rent RedBox movies, and some DO! then they get them home and copy them, so that they can share the "wealth" with their family and friends, who may be jobless, or on just enough welfare for food. why should the innocent suffer while around the corner or down the block, somebody is laughing and gleeful, watching whatever horrible Adam Sandler movie they've cooked up this month?
Ok, To your first point, I am not going to digress away from the main issue of piracy....As for people who try to sell copied rental DVD's, I knew a number of them and blew in each one to the authorities as I do not condone the practice....

To your second point, are you kidding me? This is the very reason a DRM like Cinavia exists in the first place...So it's ok for someone to RENT a movie, copy it and give it away to someone else just because they are downtrodden, poor, on welfare, etc....First of all, it's not that person's disc to give away, and doing so isn't considered stealing? HUH?

It is my hope Cinavia is the DRM that will put the clamps on this activity, but I'm wise enough to know it's a possibility that it can be broken, but it's ability to adapt is different and that firmware updates can force it onto devices....Like I said before, this DRM is badass......
i've not mentioned selling the copies i make once! i don't believe that THAT is ethical at all, especially since the people could've just gotten it for free (which is the point really).

and to the point of "it's not that person's disc to give"...so i bought it but it's not mine? that makes no sense, logically or otherwise. if i spend money on a dog, and it has puppies, does that mean the puppies are not mine to give away?

i'm not talking about "the laws" here, i'm talking about what's RIGHT! Hollywood has the billions of dollars to afford lobbyists to forge laws into place; laws that benefit NO ONE but them.

but the common man have no one to stand up for them! they are poor, and cannot afford due representation!

darkflux for President 2012, lol :D

darkflux

1899.1.2012 17:08

i've not mentioned selling the copies i make once! i don't believe that THAT is ethical at all, especially since the people could've just gotten it for free (which is the point really).

and to the point of "it's not that person's disc to give"...so i bought it but it's not mine? that makes no sense, logically or otherwise. if i spend money on a dog, and it has puppies, does that mean the puppies are not mine to give away?

i'm not talking about "the laws" here, i'm talking about what's RIGHT! Hollywood has the billions of dollars to afford lobbyists to forge laws into place; laws that benefit NO ONE but them.

but the common man have no one to stand up for them! they are poor, and cannot afford due representation!

darkflux for President 2012, lol :D


I did not accuse you of selling your copies, as along as you purchased, and not rented them, I think that would fall under the Doctrine of First Sale, where you could sell the original commercial discs to someone else....

Second, a copy of a RENTAL is NOT someone's to give because it was not PURCHASED....

Third, if a person really wants to protest what Hollywood is doing, BOYCOTT all their forms of entertainment.....Find something else to do with one's time....Hit them in the pocketbook, Don't go to the latest 3D IMAX extravaganza...don't rent anything from them, buy anything from them....

Unfortunately, a boycott is a pipe dream because not enough Americans
will stand together to do something like that...They are dumbed down and "need" their entertainment, well if that is the case, then they don't need to bitch when Hollywood puts the screws to them...And piracy will only make their resolve stronger and with govt's help, look out, bad things can happen...Look at SOPA/PIPA, I hope not, but it's a possibility that thing may become law......

I believe as consumers of all kinds of entertainment, we have the power of voting with our wallets who and who does not get our business....they NEED our money, we don't NEED their product.....bottom line, when the upcoming
"The Hobbit" movie comes out, when they turn the projector on, let 'em hear crickets!!!
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 09 Jan 2012 @ 17:30

19010.1.2012 4:02

Originally posted by donthetech:
i've not mentioned selling the copies i make once! i don't believe that THAT is ethical at all, especially since the people could've just gotten it for free (which is the point really).

and to the point of "it's not that person's disc to give"...so i bought it but it's not mine? that makes no sense, logically or otherwise. if i spend money on a dog, and it has puppies, does that mean the puppies are not mine to give away?

i'm not talking about "the laws" here, i'm talking about what's RIGHT! Hollywood has the billions of dollars to afford lobbyists to forge laws into place; laws that benefit NO ONE but them.

but the common man have no one to stand up for them! they are poor, and cannot afford due representation!

darkflux for President 2012, lol :D
I did not accuse you of selling your copies, as along as you purchased, and not rented them, I think that would fall under the Doctrine of First Sale, where you could sell the original commercial discs to someone else....

Second, a copy of a RENTAL is NOT someone's to give because it was not PURCHASED....

Third, if a person really wants to protest what Hollywood is doing, BOYCOTT all their forms of entertainment.....Find something else to do with one's time....Hit them in the pocketbook, Don't go to the latest 3D IMAX extravaganza...don't rent anything from them, buy anything from them....

Unfortunately, a boycott is a pipe dream because not enough Americans
will stand together to do something like that...They are dumbed down and "need" their entertainment, well if that is the case, then they don't need to bitch when Hollywood puts the screws to them...And piracy will only make their resolve stronger and with govt's help, look out, bad things can happen...Look at SOPA/PIPA, I hope not, but it's a possibility that thing may become law......

I believe as consumers of all kinds of entertainment, we have the power of voting with our wallets who and who does not get our business....they NEED our money, we don't NEED their product.....bottom line, when the upcoming
"The Hobbit" movie comes out, when they turn the projector on, let 'em hear crickets!!!
Funny One could also say that downloading a film that costs the user nothing but time and bandwidth, it helps further the goal of boycotting while not harming the artists.

lets take a trip to notgunna happenland and every person decides to boycott the industry by your method, your method not only hurts the MPAA/RIAA but it hurts the artists and film makers as well.




Powered By

19110.1.2012 12:26

Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by donthetech:
i've not mentioned selling the copies i make once! i don't believe that THAT is ethical at all, especially since the people could've just gotten it for free (which is the point really).

and to the point of "it's not that person's disc to give"...so i bought it but it's not mine? that makes no sense, logically or otherwise. if i spend money on a dog, and it has puppies, does that mean the puppies are not mine to give away?

i'm not talking about "the laws" here, i'm talking about what's RIGHT! Hollywood has the billions of dollars to afford lobbyists to forge laws into place; laws that benefit NO ONE but them.

but the common man have no one to stand up for them! they are poor, and cannot afford due representation!

darkflux for President 2012, lol :D
I did not accuse you of selling your copies, as along as you purchased, and not rented them, I think that would fall under the Doctrine of First Sale, where you could sell the original commercial discs to someone else....

Second, a copy of a RENTAL is NOT someone's to give because it was not PURCHASED....

Third, if a person really wants to protest what Hollywood is doing, BOYCOTT all their forms of entertainment.....Find something else to do with one's time....Hit them in the pocketbook, Don't go to the latest 3D IMAX extravaganza...don't rent anything from them, buy anything from them....

Unfortunately, a boycott is a pipe dream because not enough Americans
will stand together to do something like that...They are dumbed down and "need" their entertainment, well if that is the case, then they don't need to bitch when Hollywood puts the screws to them...And piracy will only make their resolve stronger and with govt's help, look out, bad things can happen...Look at SOPA/PIPA, I hope not, but it's a possibility that thing may become law......

I believe as consumers of all kinds of entertainment, we have the power of voting with our wallets who and who does not get our business....they NEED our money, we don't NEED their product.....bottom line, when the upcoming
"The Hobbit" movie comes out, when they turn the projector on, let 'em hear crickets!!!
Funny One could also say that downloading a film that costs the user nothing but time and bandwidth, it helps further the goal of boycotting while not harming the artists.

lets take a trip to notgunna happenland and every person decides to boycott the industry by your method, your method not only hurts the MPAA/RIAA but it hurts the artists and film makers as well.



Well we are gonna have to agree to disagree here...Your first statement that downloading costs the user only time and bandwith, uh, how about PAYING for the file they downloaded? This business about being able to download and copy content from disks without paying for it has to stop, and how is the theft of content supporting the artists?

As for your second point, if Hollywood is using draconian measures to make it difficult for consumers to purchase and fair use of content without breaking copyright, tough, let 'em all suffer...I don't hear major artists, actors, etc. wailing to protect consumer rights, screw them.....What the hell do I care if the major studios and film makers suffer? They make bazillions of dollars off the fools that continue to support them, despite being screwed by them.....as long as people maintain the status quo and continue to support Hollywood's products they are gonna get boned because Hollywood knows they have a captive audience.....

19210.1.2012 16:08

Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by donthetech:
i've not mentioned selling the copies i make once! i don't believe that THAT is ethical at all, especially since the people could've just gotten it for free (which is the point really).

and to the point of "it's not that person's disc to give"...so i bought it but it's not mine? that makes no sense, logically or otherwise. if i spend money on a dog, and it has puppies, does that mean the puppies are not mine to give away?

i'm not talking about "the laws" here, i'm talking about what's RIGHT! Hollywood has the billions of dollars to afford lobbyists to forge laws into place; laws that benefit NO ONE but them.

but the common man have no one to stand up for them! they are poor, and cannot afford due representation!

darkflux for President 2012, lol :D
I did not accuse you of selling your copies, as along as you purchased, and not rented them, I think that would fall under the Doctrine of First Sale, where you could sell the original commercial discs to someone else....

Second, a copy of a RENTAL is NOT someone's to give because it was not PURCHASED....

Third, if a person really wants to protest what Hollywood is doing, BOYCOTT all their forms of entertainment.....Find something else to do with one's time....Hit them in the pocketbook, Don't go to the latest 3D IMAX extravaganza...don't rent anything from them, buy anything from them....

Unfortunately, a boycott is a pipe dream because not enough Americans
will stand together to do something like that...They are dumbed down and "need" their entertainment, well if that is the case, then they don't need to bitch when Hollywood puts the screws to them...And piracy will only make their resolve stronger and with govt's help, look out, bad things can happen...Look at SOPA/PIPA, I hope not, but it's a possibility that thing may become law......

I believe as consumers of all kinds of entertainment, we have the power of voting with our wallets who and who does not get our business....they NEED our money, we don't NEED their product.....bottom line, when the upcoming
"The Hobbit" movie comes out, when they turn the projector on, let 'em hear crickets!!!
Funny One could also say that downloading a film that costs the user nothing but time and bandwidth, it helps further the goal of boycotting while not harming the artists.

lets take a trip to notgunna happenland and every person decides to boycott the industry by your method, your method not only hurts the MPAA/RIAA but it hurts the artists and film makers as well.



Well we are gonna have to agree to disagree here...Your first statement that downloading costs the user only time and bandwith, uh, how about PAYING for the file they downloaded? This business about being able to download and copy content from disks without paying for it has to stop, and how is the theft of content supporting the artists?

As for your second point, if Hollywood is using draconian measures to make it difficult for consumers to purchase and fair use of content without breaking copyright, tough, let 'em all suffer...I don't hear major artists, actors, etc. wailing to protect consumer rights, screw them.....What the hell do I care if the major studios and film makers suffer? They make bazillions of dollars off the fools that continue to support them, despite being screwed by them.....as long as people maintain the status quo and continue to support Hollywood's products they are gonna get boned because Hollywood knows they have a captive audience.....
Art is meant to be seen. if people like what they see they will buy it, however it might hit the bargain bin before they do.

P2P is just another way for artists to get recognized, which should always be an artists goal. if that isn't there goal then they're industry sell outs only in it for the money there not artists at all.

before you go on about rentals who do you think pushes that garbage into the kiosks in the first place, i have yet to see a good top tier movie in any of the 30 red boxes Ive been to nor have i seen them in any of BB kiosks. granted maybe 15 to 25 days later they might have a recent release out.

IMHO, P2P supports the artists recognition, builds consumers trust with that artist, and shafts the industry all in one simple torrent file. if you feel like you need to give your money to someone put the cost of the movie/music in and envelope and send it to the artist.


Powered By

19310.1.2012 17:06

okay, so here is my opinion, and you can feel free to disagree all that you like:
ALL art should be 100% free. it should be done as a work of passion, not a work for money (i actually believe this about all work, but one step at a time).

when you do something for money, i defaces the feeling and emotion that might have went into the art. i think that that is why there are so many movies with bad acting out there, because everybody wants to be the new "Matthew McConaughey" or "Jennifer Aniston" or whoever, instead of making art for art's sake.

i know an "artist" who puts everything he's got into his art, and puts himself into undue stress on a regular basis, in order to perfect his art, and he does it for FREE, not knowing if it will even be a masterpiece afterwards, but working towards making it perfect to HIM. it may not even be something that he will sell, and yet he gives it his all, and it usually ends up being awesome.

all artists should do what they do for art's sake, and if people like it enough to keep the artist in business, then fine, they will toss their money at them to keep them in business, rather than huge corporations making billions annually.

i don't think ANYONE deserves a million dollars for a job, and if they do, then WHERE'S MY MILLION? people are always complimenting me, but still i get paid next to nothing (i work with/for poor people). i do this all, often at my own expense! but i do it for the sake of doing it.

and so i copy movies :)

Edit:
oh, and i forgot to mention that i agree with everything that DXR88 said. in fact, he said what i was going to say before i ended up reading his posts! now that's service (though it cuts MY post count down, lol)!

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2012 @ 17:08

darkflux

19410.1.2012 18:37

Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by DXR88:
Originally posted by donthetech:
i've not mentioned selling the copies i make once! i don't believe that THAT is ethical at all, especially since the people could've just gotten it for free (which is the point really).

and to the point of "it's not that person's disc to give"...so i bought it but it's not mine? that makes no sense, logically or otherwise. if i spend money on a dog, and it has puppies, does that mean the puppies are not mine to give away?

i'm not talking about "the laws" here, i'm talking about what's RIGHT! Hollywood has the billions of dollars to afford lobbyists to forge laws into place; laws that benefit NO ONE but them.

but the common man have no one to stand up for them! they are poor, and cannot afford due representation!

darkflux for President 2012, lol :D
I did not accuse you of selling your copies, as along as you purchased, and not rented them, I think that would fall under the Doctrine of First Sale, where you could sell the original commercial discs to someone else....

Second, a copy of a RENTAL is NOT someone's to give because it was not PURCHASED....

Third, if a person really wants to protest what Hollywood is doing, BOYCOTT all their forms of entertainment.....Find something else to do with one's time....Hit them in the pocketbook, Don't go to the latest 3D IMAX extravaganza...don't rent anything from them, buy anything from them....

Unfortunately, a boycott is a pipe dream because not enough Americans
will stand together to do something like that...They are dumbed down and "need" their entertainment, well if that is the case, then they don't need to bitch when Hollywood puts the screws to them...And piracy will only make their resolve stronger and with govt's help, look out, bad things can happen...Look at SOPA/PIPA, I hope not, but it's a possibility that thing may become law......

I believe as consumers of all kinds of entertainment, we have the power of voting with our wallets who and who does not get our business....they NEED our money, we don't NEED their product.....bottom line, when the upcoming
"The Hobbit" movie comes out, when they turn the projector on, let 'em hear crickets!!!
Funny One could also say that downloading a film that costs the user nothing but time and bandwidth, it helps further the goal of boycotting while not harming the artists.

lets take a trip to notgunna happenland and every person decides to boycott the industry by your method, your method not only hurts the MPAA/RIAA but it hurts the artists and film makers as well.



Well we are gonna have to agree to disagree here...Your first statement that downloading costs the user only time and bandwith, uh, how about PAYING for the file they downloaded? This business about being able to download and copy content from disks without paying for it has to stop, and how is the theft of content supporting the artists?

As for your second point, if Hollywood is using draconian measures to make it difficult for consumers to purchase and fair use of content without breaking copyright, tough, let 'em all suffer...I don't hear major artists, actors, etc. wailing to protect consumer rights, screw them.....What the hell do I care if the major studios and film makers suffer? They make bazillions of dollars off the fools that continue to support them, despite being screwed by them.....as long as people maintain the status quo and continue to support Hollywood's products they are gonna get boned because Hollywood knows they have a captive audience.....
Art is meant to be seen. if people like what they see they will buy it, however it might hit the bargain bin before they do.

P2P is just another way for artists to get recognized, which should always be an artists goal. if that isn't there goal then they're industry sell outs only in it for the money there not artists at all.

before you go on about rentals who do you think pushes that garbage into the kiosks in the first place, i have yet to see a good top tier movie in any of the 30 red boxes Ive been to nor have i seen them in any of BB kiosks. granted maybe 15 to 25 days later they might have a recent release out.

IMHO, P2P supports the artists recognition, builds consumers trust with that artist, and shafts the industry all in one simple torrent file. if you feel like you need to give your money to someone put the cost of the movie/music in and envelope and send it to the artist.

You have some good points here, some artists have provided some of their work for free to fans....That's fine and a great promotional tool...My hope is that MORE of them do that, in the case of music, dump the labels...In my view it is the Artist that determines if their content is to be shared or not, or if they require compensation for their work...Granted, P2P can be a great promotional tool, as long as the artist gives permission to share his/her content, and does not want compensation for it....Anything else IMO is stealing, no matter how it's justified

I really must say, you had good stuff in your post, thanks for that....
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 10 Jan 2012 @ 18:39

19510.1.2012 19:27

Originally posted by darkflux:
okay, so here is my opinion, and you can feel free to disagree all that you like:
ALL art should be 100% free. it should be done as a work of passion, not a work for money (i actually believe this about all work, but one step at a time).

when you do something for money, i defaces the feeling and emotion that might have went into the art. i think that that is why there are so many movies with bad acting out there, because everybody wants to be the new "Matthew McConaughey" or "Jennifer Aniston" or whoever, instead of making art for art's sake.

i know an "artist" who puts everything he's got into his art, and puts himself into undue stress on a regular basis, in order to perfect his art, and he does it for FREE, not knowing if it will even be a masterpiece afterwards, but working towards making it perfect to HIM. it may not even be something that he will sell, and yet he gives it his all, and it usually ends up being awesome.

all artists should do what they do for art's sake, and if people like it enough to keep the artist in business, then fine, they will toss their money at them to keep them in business, rather than huge corporations making billions annually.

i don't think ANYONE deserves a million dollars for a job, and if they do, then WHERE'S MY MILLION? people are always complimenting me, but still i get paid next to nothing (i work with/for poor people). i do this all, often at my own expense! but i do it for the sake of doing it.

and so i copy movies :)

Edit:
oh, and i forgot to mention that i agree with everything that DXR88 said. in fact, he said what i was going to say before i ended up reading his posts! now that's service (though it cuts MY post count down, lol)!
There is no way I can justify your first statement, you mean to tell me James Cameron makes a movie called Avatar, spends MILLIONS to make it, he is supposed to make it available for FREE? I just can't understand the logic...You also think ALL work should be done for free, ok, how does a person support themselves with no income, your logic here doesn't make sense to me....

The artist you know, God Bless him for providing his work for free, however it is HIS CHOICE to do so, and you, for working with poor people, that is a good thing.....IMO, there is NOTHING wrong with wanting compensation for you work....

As for people who make a million dollars, to the people that PAY them, they have that much value(NFL, NBA, NHL, anyone?)...AS far as "Where's my million, what have you done to EARN that kind of money?

Anyway, I thank you and DXR88 for an engaging conversation about this topic without flame wars, we did get off topic though, the topic involved Cinavia....Sorry about that....You guys have a great day and the best to you both......

19610.1.2012 22:15

Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
okay, so here is my opinion, and you can feel free to disagree all that you like:
ALL art should be 100% free. it should be done as a work of passion, not a work for money (i actually believe this about all work, but one step at a time).

when you do something for money, i defaces the feeling and emotion that might have went into the art. i think that that is why there are so many movies with bad acting out there, because everybody wants to be the new "Matthew McConaughey" or "Jennifer Aniston" or whoever, instead of making art for art's sake.

i know an "artist" who puts everything he's got into his art, and puts himself into undue stress on a regular basis, in order to perfect his art, and he does it for FREE, not knowing if it will even be a masterpiece afterwards, but working towards making it perfect to HIM. it may not even be something that he will sell, and yet he gives it his all, and it usually ends up being awesome.

all artists should do what they do for art's sake, and if people like it enough to keep the artist in business, then fine, they will toss their money at them to keep them in business, rather than huge corporations making billions annually.

i don't think ANYONE deserves a million dollars for a job, and if they do, then WHERE'S MY MILLION? people are always complimenting me, but still i get paid next to nothing (i work with/for poor people). i do this all, often at my own expense! but i do it for the sake of doing it.

and so i copy movies :)

Edit:
oh, and i forgot to mention that i agree with everything that DXR88 said. in fact, he said what i was going to say before i ended up reading his posts! now that's service (though it cuts MY post count down, lol)!
There is no way I can justify your first statement, you mean to tell me James Cameron makes a movie called Avatar, spends MILLIONS to make it, he is supposed to make it available for FREE? I just can't understand the logic...You also think ALL work should be done for free, ok, how does a person support themselves with no income, your logic here doesn't make sense to me....

The artist you know, God Bless him for providing his work for free, however it is HIS CHOICE to do so, and you, for working with poor people, that is a good thing.....IMO, there is NOTHING wrong with wanting compensation for you work....

As for people who make a million dollars, to the people that PAY them, they have that much value(NFL, NBA, NHL, anyone?)...AS far as "Where's my million, what have you done to EARN that kind of money?

Anyway, I thank you and DXR88 for an engaging conversation about this topic without flame wars, we did get off topic though, the topic involved Cinavia....Sorry about that....You guys have a great day and the best to you both......
don't twist my statements, i didn't say free i said reasonably priced 5-8 bucks is reasonably priced, 25 Bucks is not.

but your right this is about cinavia.

Powered By

19710.1.2012 23:10

Like someone said above... I believe most athletes have a union contract for 55% of the total revenue, ie. the NFL teams' revenue. Still that's a little more than HALF! Those players (or artists in case of the above arguments) just want their slice of the pie. I know I would too. I sure wouldn't accept 50k for my work when the company's making 100 million off of it!

19811.1.2012 19:46

Originally posted by SProdigy:
Like someone said above... I believe most athletes have a union contract for 55% of the total revenue, ie. the NFL teams' revenue. Still that's a little more than HALF! Those players (or artists in case of the above arguments) just want their slice of the pie. I know I would too. I sure wouldn't accept 50k for my work when the company's making 100 million off of it!
if the NFL, etc. didn't charge so much for tickets, they wouldn't have the money to pay the millions to the athletes.

i think that the LEAST they could do would be to charge less for tickets! it's hard enough to get them when you want them, without being charged an arm and two legs...

darkflux

19911.1.2012 19:55

Originally posted by donthetech:
Originally posted by darkflux:
okay, so here is my opinion, and you can feel free to disagree all that you like:
ALL art should be 100% free. it should be done as a work of passion, not a work for money (i actually believe this about all work, but one step at a time).

when you do something for money, i defaces the feeling and emotion that might have went into the art. i think that that is why there are so many movies with bad acting out there, because everybody wants to be the new "Matthew McConaughey" or "Jennifer Aniston" or whoever, instead of making art for art's sake.

i know an "artist" who puts everything he's got into his art, and puts himself into undue stress on a regular basis, in order to perfect his art, and he does it for FREE, not knowing if it will even be a masterpiece afterwards, but working towards making it perfect to HIM. it may not even be something that he will sell, and yet he gives it his all, and it usually ends up being awesome.

all artists should do what they do for art's sake, and if people like it enough to keep the artist in business, then fine, they will toss their money at them to keep them in business, rather than huge corporations making billions annually.

i don't think ANYONE deserves a million dollars for a job, and if they do, then WHERE'S MY MILLION? people are always complimenting me, but still i get paid next to nothing (i work with/for poor people). i do this all, often at my own expense! but i do it for the sake of doing it.

and so i copy movies :)

Edit:
oh, and i forgot to mention that i agree with everything that DXR88 said. in fact, he said what i was going to say before i ended up reading his posts! now that's service (though it cuts MY post count down, lol)!
There is no way I can justify your first statement, you mean to tell me James Cameron makes a movie called Avatar, spends MILLIONS to make it, he is supposed to make it available for FREE? I just can't understand the logic...You also think ALL work should be done for free, ok, how does a person support themselves with no income, your logic here doesn't make sense to me....

The artist you know, God Bless him for providing his work for free, however it is HIS CHOICE to do so, and you, for working with poor people, that is a good thing.....IMO, there is NOTHING wrong with wanting compensation for you work....

As for people who make a million dollars, to the people that PAY them, they have that much value(NFL, NBA, NHL, anyone?)...AS far as "Where's my million, what have you done to EARN that kind of money?

Anyway, I thank you and DXR88 for an engaging conversation about this topic without flame wars, we did get off topic though, the topic involved Cinavia....Sorry about that....You guys have a great day and the best to you both......
okay, regarding the cost of making movies, i believe this segways into my statement i made about "all people working for free". if EVERYONE only worked for the happiness of others, then EVERYONE would be happy, and you wouldn't NEED money! plus, the people making others happy would earn the respect of others, which would give them an incentive to do more gratis.

of course, the world is full of greedy ba$tard$, and so we must "pay to be happy". what a world. this is my way of rebelling. do things because they are good, NOT for money.

and the statement i made about "my million" was me being facetious. i would never think of ACCEPTING a million for anything i do, whether i deserved it or not.

and i'm always happy to provide "flame-free" conversation :) i believe that as soon as a person starts flaming the boards, it is evident that they are biased in their logic, and so i leave the conversation at that point...

darkflux

20011.1.2012 21:01

Maybe a smackdown forum would help. Let it roll in smackdown!
Jeff

20112.1.2012 12:15

Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by SProdigy:
Like someone said above... I believe most athletes have a union contract for 55% of the total revenue, ie. the NFL teams' revenue. Still that's a little more than HALF! Those players (or artists in case of the above arguments) just want their slice of the pie. I know I would too. I sure wouldn't accept 50k for my work when the company's making 100 million off of it!
if the NFL, etc. didn't charge so much for tickets, they wouldn't have the money to pay the millions to the athletes.

i think that the LEAST they could do would be to charge less for tickets! it's hard enough to get them when you want them, without being charged an arm and two legs...
True, depends on the team too. I live between Cleveland and Pittsburgh, with Browns tix being both cheaper and easier to obtain. Steelers... not so much!

You can blame free agency on that though. The owners created their own mess by outbidding one another for that "must have" athlete that will make their team a winner. The added expense gets passed along to, you guessed it, the fans!

Still, I wonder what the revenue percentage is for actors, musicians, etc.

20212.1.2012 17:13

Originally posted by SProdigy:
Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by SProdigy:
Like someone said above... I believe most athletes have a union contract for 55% of the total revenue, ie. the NFL teams' revenue. Still that's a little more than HALF! Those players (or artists in case of the above arguments) just want their slice of the pie. I know I would too. I sure wouldn't accept 50k for my work when the company's making 100 million off of it!
if the NFL, etc. didn't charge so much for tickets, they wouldn't have the money to pay the millions to the athletes.

i think that the LEAST they could do would be to charge less for tickets! it's hard enough to get them when you want them, without being charged an arm and two legs...
True, depends on the team too. I live between Cleveland and Pittsburgh, with Browns tix being both cheaper and easier to obtain. Steelers... not so much!

You can blame free agency on that though. The owners created their own mess by outbidding one another for that "must have" athlete that will make their team a winner. The added expense gets passed along to, you guessed it, the fans!

Still, I wonder what the revenue percentage is for actors, musicians, etc.
well, i know that the musicians certainly get less than of a cut than the actors (except for B-movie stars, and the like). in a way, actors are like sports players, in that, the more popular they are, the more money they get. i doubt that would work in music, since no band member would take less than the singer (who is typically the popular one). without the rest of the team NOTHING would get done, be it music, or movie, or sport! i don't think it fair to glamourize one over the others, who are working their hardest. the stars get all the popularity, they shouldn't NEED more money, in my opinion...

but back to C1nav!a: SINAV1A SUCKS!

20312.1.2012 17:20

I agree get back on he topic.

20413.1.2012 12:33

I'll continue to keep and use my standard DVD players (bought 3 of them at the same time just for insurance for the future). I think whatever microbial difference I could see between Blue-ray and DVD didn't convince me to take the bait and go to it. Why buy all my movies all over again just to see a bit more clarity when DVD is perfectly clear to me anyway (and frankly I can just barely tell the difference between the two). I'm more interested in the movie and acting and such than fixating on pixel quality (unless it was a VHS of course which would really suck). And so it can hold more data. I can hold all my data on portable hard drives which will last a lot longer anyway than a burned disc will due to corruption of the disc material (rot). As long as people keep supporting/buying blue ray burners I imagine the goal will one day be for these giant companies to make the DVD player a thing of the past and you will be forced to play their game with their new DRM schemes which you will have no choice but to use because they no longer will produce DVDS (because they will have successfully managed to get everyone to buy blue rays and phase out DVDs altogether). The choice is yours. Better wise up now while there is still time left before DVDs and DVD players are extinct. Support DVD technology and keep your freedom (because the alternative is no alternative for a free society).

20514.1.2012 0:59

Originally posted by smg:
I'll continue to keep and use my standard DVD players (bought 3 of them at the same time just for insurance for the future). I think whatever microbial difference I could see between Blue-ray and DVD didn't convince me to take the bait and go to it. Why buy all my movies all over again just to see a bit more clarity when DVD is perfectly clear to me anyway (and frankly I can just barely tell the difference between the two). I'm more interested in the movie and acting and such than fixating on pixel quality (unless it was a VHS of course which would really suck). And so it can hold more data. I can hold all my data on portable hard drives which will last a lot longer anyway than a burned disc will due to corruption of the disc material (rot). As long as people keep supporting/buying blue ray burners I imagine the goal will one day be for these giant companies to make the DVD player a thing of the past and you will be forced to play their game with their new DRM schemes which you will have no choice but to use because they no longer will produce DVDS (because they will have successfully managed to get everyone to buy blue rays and phase out DVDs altogether). The choice is yours. Better wise up now while there is still time left before DVDs and DVD players are extinct. Support DVD technology and keep your freedom (because the alternative is no alternative for a free society).
i agree (on some level) with you on focusing on cinematography and acting over quality. i've known some "sketched" movies that were more entertaining than the latest Pixar film! plus, re-buying the old movies on BR is POINTLESS if they haven't been remastered fully (most of them were just copied from the DVD source!). if you want better DVD quality for your HDTV, just get a DVD Player with 1080p upconvert, and you can view your DVDs in higher quality without rebuying them all, like Holywood wants.

the only movies that i buy on BR are the ones where the HD REALLY makes a difference. you know, the ones where you can almost smell the sweat from the detail? the ones where you can count the character's PORES! the ones that pull you into the movie, and remind you of why you bought an HDTV in the first place (other than the government scam that was perpetrated on us all).

all-in-all, i'd say i only have about 6 BR discs, and one of those was a gift!

on the other hand, i own about 200-300 or so various DVDs (store bought). many of them so obscure you won't likely ever find them on BluRay...

darkflux

20614.1.2012 0:59

[sorry, accidental double post!]

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 14 Jan 2012 @ 1:07

2077.5.2012 1:57

maybe what we need is a streaming player LIKE windows media player 11 that will stream in a slower frame rate.(wmp11 will not do this, just saying some program that streams movies in a slower frame rate than normal) then play the video file in 1.5 speed from your ps3s video player options. Sense the "program" has slowed the file down .5 or 1.0, speeding the ps3 player up to 1.5 should play the file in normal speed just fine. Just an idea. Have been watching movies in 1.5 speed just fine so thought if it was already slow when i started it would be fine when sped up. Now If only we had someone to make this "PROGRAM" that slowed down the video file that was being streamed. Doubt this helped but maybe....just maybe...

This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 07 May 2012 @ 3:17

20823.5.2012 2:12
phi2
Unverified new user

Originally posted by dsguardin:
So here's what I'm wondering with regard to Blu Ray players. Say you buy a slightly older model Blu Ray player - for instance, a refurbished Samsung BD-P1500. Assuming that it doesn't automatically come with this new little Cinavia detector programmed into it, would it be safe to download the player's firmware updates? Would the Cinavia detector be part of a firmware update, or is that something that would have to already be installed into the player's hardware? Any guesses on this?
it is in the updates so dont update im trying to workout how to get it back to old firmware its killed me

20923.5.2012 17:21

Originally posted by magiver123:
maybe what we need is a streaming player LIKE windows media player 11 that will stream in a slower frame rate.(wmp11 will not do this, just saying some program that streams movies in a slower frame rate than normal) then play the video file in 1.5 speed from your ps3s video player options. Sense the "program" has slowed the file down .5 or 1.0, speeding the ps3 player up to 1.5 should play the file in normal speed just fine. Just an idea. Have been watching movies in 1.5 speed just fine so thought if it was already slow when i started it would be fine when sped up. Now If only we had someone to make this "PROGRAM" that slowed down the video file that was being streamed. Doubt this helped but maybe....just maybe...
it's a nice idea, but it is the fact that you are playing it slower that the code is not recognized. encoding it slower and then playing it back normally would play that frequency back normally as well, and you'd be back in the same boat again.

now maybe if somebody encoded it at a speed of like 1.1x...need to try this later tonight.

darkflux

2103.6.2012 5:26
toid
Unverified new user

Originally posted by Showtime990:
This to me is a waste of time, i have just come across this message on my PS3 after a friend borrowed me The Losers, ok so it wont work in my PS3 because of the firmware embedded into the blu-ray player, big deal, press eject and then placed the same dvd into my dvd player with a HDMI output and presto it works.

blu-ray is good for blu-ray discs, using the PS3 as a dvd player is just an option as we all have other dvd players which we can use, and may i add with HDMI outputs, you do not gain any quality by putting a pirate copy of a dvd into a blu ray player (especially from a avi download off the net)so who are they stopping, what a joke, just means my PS3 will now spend more time switched off when i am not gaming, which saves me some money and pro longs the life of my PS3.

PS: i have not opted to buy a blu-ray burner and thank god i did not, i did purchase my PS3 though when it first came out with the crazy price tag, but blu-rays you can pick up for as little as 6.99 or less from Amazon, wow how they try LOL.
what good is that when most bluray copies are 10-20gb how u gonna put that on a standard DVD

2116.6.2012 0:21

Originally posted by toid:

what good is that when most bluray copies are 10-20gb how u gonna put that on a standard DVD
by re-encoding them to lower bitrates, in DVD standard format (720x480, or 480p). most Blurays, the movie is not all that is on them, so some of that 10-20GB is extras and junk. for just the movie, which is typically 1080p, reducing it to 480p and lower the bitrate slightly (8000kbps, max), you should have no problems fitting it onto a DVD disc, even just a single-layer 4.7GB. longer movies may need a 8.5GB DVD-DL disc, but most PCs come equipped with that nowadays, and if not, they are cheap.

and before you complain that lowering the bitrate and size of the video lowers the quality, let me just say that if that was that big a deal to the people doing this, they would just buy BluRay burners, and most of them are doing this to play the movies at friends' houses, and believe it or not, not everybody can AFFORD a BluRay player, which would be (typically) why they would do this in the first place...

as for Showtime's quote, i'm afraid it's abit dated, as they are now working on integrating this as manadatory in DVD players, too.
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 06 Jun 2012 @ 0:22

darkflux

21212.6.2012 16:47

You can use BD-RB to encode and shrink it to 4.7GB dics. It will be a blu-ray movie. But it takes along time to encode, shrink, and burn. Very good quality movie. Some other programs do make BR into DVD format Br format in 25GB and 5GB.

21313.6.2012 17:44

Originally posted by tinner45:
You can use BD-RB to encode and shrink it to 4.7GB dics. It will be a blu-ray movie. But it takes along time to encode, shrink, and burn. Very good quality movie. Some other programs do make BR into DVD format Br format in 25GB and 5GB.
this is true. plus, many people forget that, in the case of some older movies that have been re-released on BluRay, the companies simply take the DVD version and convert it into BluRay, rather than using the original film. so in this case, the BluRay version is not really any better than the DVD version, other than it has been revised to fit 1080p screens better (unless you have an upconvert DVD player, in which case THAT would be better).

another thing is, not all BR discs are that full 25GB, especially if they just copied it from the DVD. 25GB is simply the maximum size of the BluRay disc (for single layer discs, which are cheaper to make). and often, they will throw extras into that unused space, if any are available...

i'm still waiting for the day when they will fit entire TV series on one BluRay, instead of 2-3 discs per season. i think that if you can fit one season onto 6 DVDs (8.5GB each), you should be fully capable of fitting them all onto 1 BRD (50GB each)...

but you know they will never do that, because they wouldn't be able to justify the $50 price tag, when it sits next to a $25 DVD.

sorry, i'm done ranting now ;)
This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 13 Jun 2012 @ 17:47

darkflux

21414.6.2012 7:24

Good advise darkflux, I did notice that in the past some years back, I have rented BR movies form blockbuster, and did find that some older movies to be of no better quliaty than regular DVD's, renting you don't much feel that ripped off, but I sure as hell would if I bought the damn thing, and there is no way of knowing to my knowlegde if your getting a true quality BR disc or not.

Comments have been disabled for this article.

News archive