250GB 'Super' Xbox 360 Elite coming soon?

How is that "super"? Both Sony & M$ need to start putting 500GB drives in their high-end, jacked-up-price units. Charging $100 extra to replace a $40 drive with a $50 drive is total BS.

Also: "When you trade in your PS2 slim console"
-Sounds like they are a bit worried by all the studies that show the PS2 is still far more popular than either Xbox.

Would be cool , So Most/All of your games can fit on your 360 hd, but 500gb would be better

wow 600$? thats way too high i dont see why comments are disabled on that ps3 article

Originally posted by KillerBug:

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How is that "super"? Both Sony & M$ need to start putting 500GB drives in their high-end, jacked-up-price units. Charging $100 extra to replace a $40 drive with a $50 drive is total BS.

Also: "When you trade in your PS2 slim console"
-Sounds like they are a bit worried by all the studies that show the PS2 is still far more popular than either Xbox.

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360 is the worst offender here since you can ONLY replace their proprietary 360 exclusive HDD with another proprietary 360 exclusive HDD. At least the PS3/PS3 Slim let's you put in your own HDD.

And $600? for a system that still only plays DVD9 games, only plays at 720p, and you have to pay for the online service. You'd have to be brain dead to buy it. Any 360 fanboy that complained about the price of the PS3 for the last few years that would honestly now pay $600 for a 360 is truly stupid.

And to trade in a PS2?
sounds to me like they're worried about Sony period. The playing field has finally been leveled and Sony is about to score the game breaker...and MS knows it. They can't beat the PS3 at $299, so they're going to pick on the 10 year old system that outsells them.

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jookycola

And to trade in a PS2?
sounds to me like they're worried about Sony period. The playing field has finally been leveled and Sony is about to score the game breaker...and MS knows it. They can't beat the PS3 at $299, so they're going to pick on the 10 year old system that outsells them.

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The retailer is offering the deal for trade in not ms..lol..as for the PS3 it's at the rear of all the consoles incl the original xbox,should be interesting to see what the slim PS3 can do however to me this time round sony has missed the mark with the PS3,what i mean by that is it's trying to be everything for everybody,a web browser a game console & a dvd player & a media centre,they should've concentrated on being a gaming console first,not to worry i dare say lessons are being learned & the next gen battle is shaping up to be a doosey me thinks,either way both sony & ms need a good kick up the jacksie

Edit:one more thing both makers should get input from the people that matter in what they would like to see in the next set of consoles starting with much larger hdd's & no heating issues & both consoles could be a dam site more bloody quite along with playing from hdd without to much dvd spin time,yeah there's a million other things i'd like to add but that'll do

I'm sure you can swap your hard drive your self on these things as they are just notebook drives the same as the PS3.


How To, here you go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WR9inneEkA

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Originally posted by pphoenix:

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I'm sure you can swap your hard drive your self on these things as they are just notebook drives the same as the PS3.

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swapping hdd's on the 360 isn't the issue,the 360 cannot read past 120gb,there's no way to make it too, flash or chipped it still can't,lets face it even the PS3 @ 80GB at time of sale is a bloody joke,the 360's worse since it lets you load games to the hdd,what bloody nut thought "oh lets make the max for the 360 120gb",what a bunch of idiots there are at the ms production team

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Originally posted by pphoenix:

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I'm sure you can swap your hard drive your self on these things as they are just notebook drives the same as the PS3.

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swapping hdd's on the 360 isn't the issue,the 360 cannot read past 120gb,there's no way to make it too, flash or chipped it still can't,lets face it even the PS3 @ 80GB at time of sale is a bloody joke,the 360's worse since it lets you load games to the hdd,what bloody nut thought "oh lets make the max for the 360 120gb",what a bunch of idiots there are at the ms production team

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but the limitation can be removed via a firmware update if microsoft wanted to be nice. just as win xp home was fixed, so it could use larger that the 120gig size hb without needing partitions.

the simplicity of put a cartridge in & it works has now gone, i thought console gaming was supposed to be a simple and cheap alternative to the PC, what a joke.

There is a firmware limit on current Xbox SKUs for a 120gb limit on the HDD size - but that doesn't stop anyone sourcing & using the correct Western Digital HDD themselves.

Similarly when the 250gb HDD appears the firmware will update to allow 250gb (and when we know whioch specific HDD is used you'll be able to go and buy that yourself and fit it into the enclosure too).

I'm all for bigger HDDs. 250gb will be nice but as they move to d/l'ing full games (as well as HD movie d/ls) even that 250gb drive is going to fill pretty quickly.

€279.99 = £246.
So here in the UK it'll be cheaper than the 120gb PS3 slim (and we can always just buy one in the EU at the price if necessary.

I hope they bring bigger drives tho.

But it is still nice to be able to use an external HDD for movies amd music and pics (and when formatted in HFS+ it does away with the 4gb FAT 32 limit).

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Quote:

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jookycola

And to trade in a PS2?
sounds to me like they're worried about Sony period. The playing field has finally been leveled and Sony is about to score the game breaker...and MS knows it. They can't beat the PS3 at $299, so they're going to pick on the 10 year old system that outsells them.

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The retailer is offering the deal for trade in not ms..lol..as for the PS3 it's at the rear of all the consoles incl the original xbox,should be interesting to see what the slim PS3 can do however to me this time round sony has missed the mark with the PS3,what i mean by that is it's trying to be everything for everybody,a web browser a game console & a dvd player & a media centre,they should've concentrated on being a gaming console first,not to worry i dare say lessons are being learned & the next gen battle is shaping up to be a doosey me thinks,either way both sony & ms need a good kick up the jacksie

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The Xbox 360 does those same exact things. Last i checked on my 360 i can stream netflix, watch DVD's, Play CD's/MP3's, go online, and play games...is that not a media center? Sony has not missed the mark yet, the PS3 has a 10 year cycle that they are only 3 or so years into. They only missed the mark due to price. Now that it's within the price range of the 360, and you get more system for your buck I think it's game over for the 360. The hardware in the PS3 will go the whole 10 years without aging badly, IMHO my 360's hardware peaked in 2008.

The system is number one and has been for a long time that means market saturation, the PS3 has not even begun to meet the 360 in saturation yet. That means there is a very open and interested market that will buy the PS3.

I love mt 360 to death, but i'm not so blindly in love that i can't see that the PS3 is a better system and at the same price. With pretty much the same exact game library. If my 360 RROD'd today i'd toss it sell all the games and get the PS3 instead and be done with it. (I hope i didn't just curse my xbox)

I so badly want to like the PS3, since I grew up on Sony. It may take a few years for the PS3 to get into my household, because I just don't see the need for it. If it's so dang powerful, why have I not seen anything yet that revolutionizes graphics? Any game that you can compare between the 360 and PS3 looks pretty much the same. In fact, I think the 360 version looks a little more polished at times.

Besides, 360s exclusive titles outmatch that of the PS3. Gears of War, Halo, Fable, Forza, and the list goes on and on. PS3 has MGS (for now..), Resistance (yawn), Killzone (yawn), SOCOM (people still play this??), God of War, Ratchet & Clank, and Gran Turismo. Anyone who isn't a fanboy of Sony can agree. Xbox has a much better selection.

Originally posted by MReprogle:

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Besides, 360s exclusive titles outmatch that of the PS3

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....in your humble opinion.

Originally posted by MReprogle:

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...Gears of War, Halo, Fable, Forza, and the list goes on and on. PS3 has MGS (for now..), Resistance (yawn), Killzone (yawn), SOCOM (people still play this??), God of War, Ratchet & Clank, and Gran Turismo.

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Do you really think that's all the exclusives the PS3 has? The list also goes on. No need for a pissing match. Just requires some more googling.

Originally posted by MReprogle:

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...Anyone who isn't a fanboy of Sony can agree. Xbox has a much better selection.

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It's purely objective.

Anyway, the whole hard drive pricing scheme is enough to drive anyone nuts. You can't win with these consoles. They could at least try a little harder to not make it look like they think we're stupid.

But the 2 controllers and exclusive game is a pretty good addition. A single controller standard has always pissed me off.

Originally posted by MReprogle:

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I so badly want to like the PS3, since I grew up on Sony. It may take a few years for the PS3 to get into my household, because I just don't see the need for it. If it's so dang powerful, why have I not seen anything yet that revolutionizes graphics? Any game that you can compare between the 360 and PS3 looks pretty much the same. In fact, I think the 360 version looks a little more polished at times.

Besides, 360s exclusive titles outmatch that of the PS3. Gears of War, Halo, Fable, Forza, and the list goes on and on. PS3 has MGS (for now..), Resistance (yawn), Killzone (yawn), SOCOM (people still play this??), God of War, Ratchet & Clank, and Gran Turismo. Anyone who isn't a fanboy of Sony can agree. Xbox has a much better selection.

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If you think

Gears of War (5vs5 on a peer to peer system using outdated Unreal tech for graphics)
Halo (sub HD resolution 640p & technologically didn't bring nothing new to the table)
Forza (only 8 players with inaccurate tracks and physics)

are in some way graphically & in gameplay superior/better than

Uncharted 1/2 (solid true 720p stunning graphics & solid gameplay)
Resistance 1/2 (solid true 720p & more support like 30vs30 MP all while NOT peer to peer etc)
Killzone 2 (solid true 720p & 1080i, again not on peer to peer servers, with physics & graphics absolutely superior to ANYTHING on the 360)
God of War (again graphically amazing from what we have seen so far)
Ratchet & Clank (borderline Disney quality animations/graphics)
Gran Turismo (solid true 720p & 1280x1080p support, 16 player, by far more accurate tracks & physics)
Motorstorm 1/2 (an often forgotten physics intense equally graphical FUN off road title)
MGS4 (storyline alone is worthy enough to stand by)

then you haven't played them at all, on a proper setup, or are going off compressed online videos comparisons or something....

It is a fact that Sony has by far and away many more inhouse devs combined with solid 2nd & 3rd party support with REAL diversity in their games. Not just TPS's & FPS's that are 99% of the time multiplatform. Look, if you don't like the games that are available on the PS3, that's cool, it's YOUR preference. But to say that "360s exclusive titles outmatch that of the PS3" is outright fallacy.

If you want to read a more in depth comparison of say Gears vs Uncharted then read through this and this

Considering that almost everyone with a console that I know loves COD4 and its 600p graphics I think the hair-splitting and partial commentary about Xbox games is ridiculous.

The fact is that Xbox not only offers more games than PS3 but more games with a higher score according to Metacritic.

A 250gb Elite will be a nice new SKU (and this explains those 'quantites limited' notices on the bottom of those price-cut flyers).
250gb is the new Elite and at much the same price from the look of the Amazon Germany post.

It compares extremely well to the 120gb PS3 slim (and will make the 250gb PS3 slim look very expensive).

(and I'm not at all impressed by the comments of Sony devs talking up PS3 and slamming Xbox)

No such announcement - They've not announced it but they haven't denied that they're not working on it.

The word it way too obvious - on purpose I think.

Who agrees that it costs a little too high if there won't be a WiFi Adapter and LIVE bundled?

I don't own an xbox but I'll say just to add another kick to it, I hear it down converts dts audio to ac3. HAHA And for those with audio systems know that there is a difference and can hear it. :)

ah the good old off topic sony talk has hijacked a 360 thread.

Super-Elite–Supreme. Sounds like a Pizza. I was going to say that it would probably cook one too but im not going to say that. Nice tactic from MS, "Trade in your PS2" to get the deal. If we cant beat you, we will buy you.

Originally posted by pphoenix:

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ah the good old off topic sony talk has hijacked a 360 thread.

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cause they cant comment on their articles...

Originally posted by kikzm33z:

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Who agrees that it costs a little too high if there won't be a WiFi Adapter and LIVE bundled?

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What's the big deal about wi-fi?

Besides the Xbox wi-fi adapter isn't expensive anymore (it's selling in the uK @ £32 - £35 now).

In any case wired is more reliable, faster, cheaper and generally much better - and with the latest wall power socket networking it's so convenient, easy & cheap.

Quote:

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Originally posted by pphoenix:

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ah the good old off topic sony talk has hijacked a 360 thread.

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cause they cant comment on their articles...

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Thats the 360 calling the PS3 black. It is thanks to pphownix that the PS3 articles are closed.

Quote:

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Originally posted by kikzm33z:

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Who agrees that it costs a little too high if there won't be a WiFi Adapter and LIVE bundled?

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What's the big deal about wi-fi?

Besides the Xbox wi-fi adapter isn't expensive anymore (it's selling in the uK @ £32 - £35 now).

In any case wired is more reliable, faster, cheaper and generally much better - and with the latest wall power socket networking it's so convenient, easy & cheap.

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That's £32 more cost for the system. It's 2009. WiFi should be a standard for this type of device that connects online. I haven't been following the 360 closely, and I'm shocked that WiFi is still not standard. The average consumer only knows wired and wireless. If you want to promote a "Live" service and charge for it, you'd better provide both means of connecting that service right out of the box.

So is it true that the 360 also downsamples dts to AC3? That would also be a shame. After listening to dts, I could never comfortably go back to AC3. Huge difference to me.

Originally posted by glassd:

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Quote:

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Originally posted by pphoenix:

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ah the good old off topic sony talk has hijacked a 360 thread.

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cause they cant comment on their articles...

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Thats the 360 calling the PS3 black. It is thanks to pphownix that the PS3 articles are closed.

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We have a Winner! Or at least partially...so the fair thing to do would be to close this thread as well since it falls under the "all console news topics will be closed"...what do you think guys? Close this one and have ppheonix be 3 for 3 (plus close all the rest that are open as well to be really fair) or what?

Quote:

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Originally posted by MReprogle:

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I so badly want to like the PS3, since I grew up on Sony. It may take a few years for the PS3 to get into my household, because I just don't see the need for it. If it's so dang powerful, why have I not seen anything yet that revolutionizes graphics? Any game that you can compare between the 360 and PS3 looks pretty much the same. In fact, I think the 360 version looks a little more polished at times.

Besides, 360s exclusive titles outmatch that of the PS3. Gears of War, Halo, Fable, Forza, and the list goes on and on. PS3 has MGS (for now..), Resistance (yawn), Killzone (yawn), SOCOM (people still play this??), God of War, Ratchet & Clank, and Gran Turismo. Anyone who isn't a fanboy of Sony can agree. Xbox has a much better selection.

---

If you think

Gears of War (5vs5 on a peer to peer system using outdated Unreal tech for graphics)
Halo (sub HD resolution 640p & technologically didn't bring nothing new to the table)
Forza (only 8 players with inaccurate tracks and physics)

are in some way graphically & in gameplay superior/better than

Uncharted 1/2 (solid true 720p stunning graphics & solid gameplay)
Resistance 1/2 (solid true 720p & more support like 30vs30 MP all while NOT peer to peer etc)
Killzone 2 (solid true 720p & 1080i, again not on peer to peer servers, with physics & graphics absolutely superior to ANYTHING on the 360)
God of War (again graphically amazing from what we have seen so far)
Ratchet & Clank (borderline Disney quality animations/graphics)
Gran Turismo (solid true 720p & 1280x1080p support, 16 player, by far more accurate tracks & physics)
Motorstorm 1/2 (an often forgotten physics intense equally graphical FUN off road title)
MGS4 (storyline alone is worthy enough to stand by)

then you haven't played them at all, on a proper setup, or are going off compressed online videos comparisons or something....

It is a fact that Sony has by far and away many more inhouse devs combined with solid 2nd & 3rd party support with REAL diversity in their games. Not just TPS's & FPS's that are 99% of the time multiplatform. Look, if you don't like the games that are available on the PS3, that's cool, it's YOUR preference. But to say that "360s exclusive titles outmatch that of the PS3" is outright fallacy.

If you want to read a more in depth comparison of say Gears vs Uncharted then read through this and this

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I am not going to get into a exclusives title comparison between these consoles. I will play anything that is a great game no matter what console it is on. But i will add a fact that you pay a lot more for some PS3 exclusives b/c they are newer(GOW1 is an old XBOX360 title now) maybe b/c the PS3 is still more difficult dev for, BUT........then again PS3 has free online so haha who cares. Depends on how you look at things. but i will say that i dont think its fair to give uncharted so much credit graphically or overall as a game. Ii dont think i was the only one who noticed a lot of glitching in the polygons that were sometimes slow to load and had tearing. Other review sites noticed this as well and that is one reason uncharted didnot score as high as it could have. Nor did uncharted score as high graphically as GOW 1 or 2. Not b/c the graphics did not look better in uncharted i admit as well do i admit you could find some flaws in GOW1n2 as well but Honestly Uncharteds issue was a lot more obvious and often. You have to take that into account that either the PS3 had some programming issues or as some say GPU may truely be bottle necking the PS3 true potential in its CPU(cell). Just wanted to put that out b/c it was state that the GOW used"outdated Unreal tech for graphics." yet reviews took other issues with visuals into account besides first appearance like a lot of people do and reviewed it accordingly. Also felt bad b/c i enjoyed playing the game for the bit i did but my friend who i recommended the game to buy, beat it the next day he bought it. He bitched about $60 for a short game like that was crazy.

Leave them open. I will go back to only reading\posting in the PS3 articles. I fell a little bad that i sunk to the little boys level and pooped on this article concerning a product that i no longer use and dont realy care about anymore. Competition is good for both consoles.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by pphoenix:

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ah the good old off topic sony talk has hijacked a 360 thread.

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cause they cant comment on their articles...

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Thats the 360 calling the PS3 black. It is thanks to pphownix that the PS3 articles are closed.

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Seriously, do we have to go to this again. There's 100 other news articles that have turned into xbox vs ps. GET OVER IT. They're gaming consoles ffs. It's not the end of the world.

Experiencing the wii: $249. Enjoying the playstation 3: $299. Playing the xbox 360: $199. In it for the games: Priceless.

If you like ps3 GET OVER IT. If you like xbox GET OVER IT. If you like wii GET OVER IT. If you like none, why are you in a gaming discussion?

Period.

I hate these tangents these threads go on also, but if someone posts inaccurate info, a rebuttal should be expected. I don't mind valid arguments over which manufacturer is charging more for parts, or which features are lacking. I even enjoy the arguments over game quality, as long as people list sources. Unfortunatley it's the stupid ones like "the PS3 has no good exclusives" that still need addressing. Not in a confrontational way. Just the facts. Every opinion trying to pass off as fact on every news article on the internet should be shot down as opinion. Otherwise, I don't think this thread is as out of control as many others have become.

Originally posted by emugamer:

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I hate these tangents these threads go on also, but if someone posts inaccurate info, a rebuttal should be expected. I don't mind valid arguments over which manufacturer is charging more for parts, or which features are lacking. I even enjoy the arguments over game quality, as long as people list sources. Unfortunatley it's the stupid ones like "the PS3 has no good exclusives" that still need addressing. Not in a confrontational way. Just the facts. Every opinion trying to pass off as fact on every news article on the internet should be shot down as opinion. Otherwise, I don't think this thread is as out of control as many others have become.

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Your post is the reason why this thread will stay open (unless another mod/admin deems otherwise). Great post.

I think they can sell this at $350 max. The game bundle is good, but for the one without it, I don't know. I love my 360 but I think any 360 selling for more than the price of the cheapest 360 is a pretty epic fail. You get a bigger HDD but who cares. What will you do? Store 500 one day video rentals? Copy your media collection to your console rather than stream it over your network? To spend 10 minutes installing a game to save 2 seconds on load times here and there? To fall into the myth that you help keep the console cool... because running games off the HDD means you don't use the CPU and GPU :o

I think that this super Elite will be $299 within six months.

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the simplicity of put a cartridge in & it works has now gone, i thought console gaming was supposed to be a simple and cheap alternative to the PC, what a joke.

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LOL. You know you can just pop in a DVD and start playing the game in seconds, right? Also, I think your memory has gone bad or you're just ignorant, but a SNES, NES and Genesis weren't exactly cheap, especially compared to a $199 Xbox 360. And the games were like $70. The last 3 N64 games I purchased were over $60 when they first came out (Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day and Jet Force Gemini). They weren't special collector's editions either. It was just the game and a manual.

Originally posted by atomicxl:

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I think they can sell this at $350 max.

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Have a look at the prices again.

€279.99.

In Europe that is less than the price of the new PS3 slim.

In Europe the Xbox Elite and the PS3 slim are not the same price.

In the UK they are £199 v £249.
In Europe they are €249 v €299.
The Xbox being the cheaper and PS3 slim the more expensive.

So this bundle is actually less expensive than the current PS3 slim.

That being the case why assume that this will street in the USA at any more than $299?

Quote:

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LOL. You know you can just pop in a DVD and start playing the game in seconds, right? Also, I think your memory has gone bad or you're just ignorant, but a SNES, NES and Genesis weren't exactly cheap, especially compared to a $199 Xbox 360. And the games were like $70. The last 3 N64 games I purchased were over $60 when they first came out (Perfect Dark, Conker's Bad Fur Day and Jet Force Gemini). They weren't special collector's editions either. It was just the game and a manual.

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lol, I think we can all agree that at least the days of SNES gaming were much less complicated than today. There weren't multiple skus or console add-ons, or firmware updates, game updates, dlc, etc.. For a while, it was mainly Nintendo vs Sega. The comparison was truly fanboy, as a large portion of the age group was probably mid to pre-teen and it was fun to bash Sonic if you were a Mario fanboy. If detailed specs were fodder for techies, you really had to search for it, because the internet wasn't as mainstream as it is now and there weren't an abundance of public forums you could choose from. I was a Nintendo kid, and subscribed to Nintendo Power. I didn't know or didn't care if Sega had a competing newsletter or magazine. Being betwen 12-15 at the time of both the NES and SNES, I didn't know any adults over 20 who were into video games. They mere marketed as a kids toy. N64 games were relatively more expensive, but I'm pretty sure I didn't spend $60 on a SNES game. And if I'm not mistaken, the comment you singled out was a general statement, not a cost analysis of a single cartridge based system vs todays games. I didn't find it ignorant at all. I find the evolution of video games and marketing strategies fascintating. Especially when you can draw from your own experiences to either agree or disagree with historical research..

What are we talking about again??...lol

Originally posted by Oner:

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Your post is the reason why this thread will stay open (unless another mod/admin deems otherwise). Great post.

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What was decided, at least by myself and Dela, was that the console articles having comments disabled will be at the discretion of the writer of the article. Didn't think there would be too much drama in a speculation article about Xbox 360 pricing tbh. :P

No doubt about it a minimum of 500gb is needed for either console & even then i wonder if that's really big enough,seems sony has upgraded to a 120gb now on their latest console in "the warehouse" mailer,strange they'd bother if there's a slim comming

Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Your post is the reason why this thread will stay open (unless another mod/admin deems otherwise). Great post.

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What was decided, at least by myself and Dela, was that the console articles having comments disabled will be at the discretion of the writer of the article. Didn't think there would be too much drama in a speculation article about Xbox 360 pricing tbh. :P

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ROFL...360 pricing = which games have better graphics....

There goes the reliability issue, wave it goodbye folks.

Contrary to some raking up ancient news and silly 'surveys' here's a report by SquareTrade, an independent provider of warranties on electronics.

Dated Aug 28th 2009.

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/Squar...bility_0809.pdf

Quote:

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2.7% of Wiis fail during the first two years of ownership, compared with a 10% failure rate over that period for Sony’s PlayStation 3 and a 23.7% failure rate for Microsoft’s Xbox 360......

......Since Microsoft introduced a new chip in the Xbox 360 last year, SquareTrade said complaints about the red ring of death problem have begun to abate. On over 500 Xbox 360s purchased by SquareTrade customers in 2009, fewer than 1% reported a red ring of death problem as of August, according to SquareTrade."

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There you go, I was asked to provide proof that the new Falcon & Jasper mobos had improved reliability to the sort of norm everyone else provides and I have.

I thank you.

Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

this is news? i don't know where you guys have been but over at the real deal 360 forums we have known about this for well over a month. great flame war though, too bad the numbers dont lie ps3 fanboys. apparantly the console owners know what they want, and they want the 360. and dont blame it on the recession, i am in the retail industry and everything is blamed on the recession.

Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it?

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Not in the slightest.

There was no such independant and up-to-date data until this report here came out today.

It's as simple as that.

Originally posted by Oner:

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But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers

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Maybe so, but they are an independant 3rd party warranty company and their numbers can be seen as free from spin or bias.

Originally posted by Oner:

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whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales

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Dated July 2007.
Over 2 years out-of-date.

That's not much use for telling us how things are today following the 2 major hardware revisions.

Originally posted by Oner:

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and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

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That's purely your own spin & invention on this.

Nothing in the report dated July 2007 said anything about how future hardware revisions (one of which was over 1 year away) was "affected" at all.

Originally posted by Oner:

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I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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S'funny some want it both ways.
It's not unusual to find plenty who wouldn't trust or believe a word Microsoft have to say about anything.

That failrate is interesting though.
Jasper Xbox has a failrate 1/10th that of PS3.
PS3 fails run at 1 in 10?
Intersting.

One last thing.

Like any form of insurance a 3rd party warranty company only cares about one thing: rates of liability/risk & for that they need accuracy.

Without it, they stand to lose their shirts to over the insurance they offer people, or be sued heavily for under insuring people.

Originally posted by Oner:

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I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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How does Microsoft respond to the reported 54.2 percent failure rate?

They didn't dispute the data!

Originally posted by HDNow:

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How does Microsoft respond to the reported 54.2 percent failure rate?

They didn't dispute the data

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Why would they, specifically?

That "data" was garbage.
No serious statistician would considerit anything beyond the most weak of anecdotal 'evidence'.
Self-selected & completely unverified.
It's about as substantive as a phone-in.

(and suspiciously timed around the PS3 slim release too)

It stands no comparison with the SquareTrade data.

That is serious industry data.
It is independent and verifiable, being based on the claims they see verses the number of policies taken out over a given period.

Originally posted by Interestx:

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That "data" was garbage.

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Why didn't MS say so?

Their silence was deafening.

Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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What ms was referring to was the x clamps, which aren't the main reason for rrod (if you new anything about the xbox 360, the topic at hand, you would know that). So that does not mean 11 million units have rrod, it means 11 million units could possibly be faulty... but any electrical item can be faulty, nothing new. The x clamps aren't even in the new xbox's, so again you are bringing up old news.

Originally posted by HDNow:

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Originally posted by Interestx:

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That "data" was garbage.

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Why didn't MS say so?

Their silence was deafening.

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because thats how ms rolls. they dont have to prove anything.

Originally posted by homesick:

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because thats how ms rolls. they dont have to prove anything.

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At least they owned up to the E74 Error - which I recently suffered on my 3rd 360 2 months after I got it back from having the RROD fixed. So back it went to MS.

as far as i know they have owned up to all of their mistakes. and can still afford to fix all xbox's and still outprice sony. bravo bill gates, bravo... :)

Originally posted by homesick:

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as far as i know they have owned up to all of their mistakes

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"MISTAKES" - absolutely the correct word to use in this case.

Originally posted by homesick:

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as far as i know they have owned up to all of their mistakes. and can still afford to fix all xbox's and still outprice sony. bravo bill gates, bravo... :)

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And still be beating ps3 in sales.

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it?

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Not in the slightest.

There was no such independant and up-to-date data until this report here came out today.

It's as simple as that.

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But yet (once again) you said you could provide your "data/sources" earlier but somehow you couldn't/didn't...that's what's odd. It seems like this "report" came out and just so happened to support what you said (with no prior proof) and now you are using it to fit your claim of which you couldn't prove earlier. But again, whatever. It's semantics but by luck not by your own researched proof.

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales

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Dated July 2007.
Over 2 years out-of-date.

That's not much use for telling us how things are today following the 2 major hardware revisions.

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So let me get this straight. You are actually saying because Microsoft THEMSELVES admit that 11 million 360's are DEFECTIVE that it's not valid because it is "2 years old"?!?!

Wow. Um, Yeah...OK. It can't get much clearer than that. Yes it does not mean all 11 million have RROD (I have NEVER said that) but that that 11 million by itself are prone to failure because they are DEFECTIVE.

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers

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Maybe so, but they are an independant 3rd party warranty company and their numbers can be seen as free from spin or bias.

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But yet you won't accept MS's OWN admission as proof...quite odd. Is the room spinning or is it just me?

Originally posted by Interestx:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

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That's purely your own spin & invention on this.

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Really? So all those Youtube videos & Gaming and/or review sites like Joystiq, IGN, Kotaku etc. showing/having RROD's & E74's (just because it's a new name doesn't mean it's a different problem) on the Xenon, Zephyr, Falcon, Opus, Jasper & Valhalla revisions are just imaginary fallacies right?

Honestly, this is getting ludicrous. It's not even worth having to waste my time to link to sources, proof & documentation anymore because certain types of people STILL won't see it no matter what is shown.

The absolute fact is 360's STILL fail because of the same issue. Hence the problem is not fixed. YES IT IS LOWER (as I have ALWAYS said) but that doesn't mean it's not of concern or that it doesn't happen.

Originally posted by chris4160:

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Originally posted by homesick:

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as far as i know they have owned up to all of their mistakes. and can still afford to fix all xbox's and still outprice sony. bravo bill gates, bravo... :)

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And still be beating ps3 in sales.

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Ugh....I thought we went through this already ~ http://www.smgamers.com/?p=948 they really aren't.

Since you are excluding all models except the Jasper to get your 1%, Then surely you would exclude all PS3 models except the Slim to get the PS3 Failure rate which is probably 0% at the moment.

If I don’t count the first two Atomic Bombs that we dropped on Japan, then the USA really didn’t drop any Atomic Bombs on Japan. If we are going to count Apples, lets count them all.

I read squaretrade's report. Did some of us not read the part where squaretrade survayed 360 owners and 360 owners tend to send their 360 into MS instead of squaretrad to be repaired (because of the 3 year warranty) and they still figure the 360 overall failure rate to be around %35.

Originally posted by glassd:

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I read squaretrade's report. Did some of us not read the part where squaretrade survayed 360 owners and 360 owners tend to send their 360 into MS instead of squaretrad to be repaired (because of the 3 year warranty) and they still figure the 360 overall failure rate to be around %35.

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Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! Someone get this man a prize since he gets it! (Not meant to sound as if condescending)

From the "report"

Quote:

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First, it’s worthwhile considering that Xbox 360’s failure rate drops to 11.7% when you exclude RROD, which then puts it on par with the PS3.

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And furthermore

Quote:

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Second, Microsoft’s policy may result in an underreporting of failures by Xbox 360 owners to SquareTrade, relative to the other two consoles.

***Because the RROD problem is so widely known to be covered by Microsoft’s warranty, we believe that more customers bypass SquareTrade and reported failures directly to the Microsoft.***

In a survey of SquareTrade customers with Xbox 360s conducted by email, SquareTrade found that over half of our customers who experienced a RROD error reported their problem directly to Microsoft without contacting SquareTrade. Email survey respondents tend to be a self-selecting group, so the data should be used directionally rather than definitively, particularly because we did not survey PS3 and Wii owners with the same question. With that caveat in mind, applying the survey data to the analysis shows that the Xbox 360 failure rate could be as high as 35%.

While Microsoft initially claimed in February 2007i that the “return” rate on Xbox 360s did not exceed 3-5%, they later published an open apology on July 5th, 2007 and announced a $1.15 billion fund to be set aside for Xbox 360 repair and replacement.ii The money would fund repairs for up to 2.5 million consoles, and thus they implicitly anticipated a far higher rate of failure than their stated 3-5%.

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Originally posted by glassd:

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I read squaretrade's report. Did some of us not read the part where squaretrade survayed 360 owners and 360 owners tend to send their 360 into MS instead of squaretrad to be repaired (because of the 3 year warranty) and they still figure the 360 overall failure rate to be around %35.

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Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! Someone get this man a prize since he gets it! (Not meant to sound as if condescending)

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Thats twice now that i have been the winner. If someone wants to read the whole squaretrade article, they will have to open square's PDF report. It has some nice charts and stuff in it.

Originally posted by glassd:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Originally posted by glassd:

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I read squaretrade's report. Did some of us not read the part where squaretrade survayed 360 owners and 360 owners tend to send their 360 into MS instead of squaretrad to be repaired (because of the 3 year warranty) and they still figure the 360 overall failure rate to be around %35.

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Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! Someone get this man a prize since he gets it! (Not meant to sound as if condescending)

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Thats twice now that i have been the winner. If someone wants to read the whole squaretrade article, they will have to open square's PDF report. It has some nice charts and stuff in it.

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Fixed. Re-did my post to avoid inaccuracies in how people take what they want and the whole picture/proper information is not shown properly.

Originally posted by chris4160:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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What ms was referring to was the x clamps, which aren't the main reason for rrod (if you new anything about the xbox 360, the topic at hand, you would know that). So that does not mean 11 million units have rrod, it means 11 million units could possibly be faulty... but any electrical item can be faulty, nothing new. The x clamps aren't even in the new xbox's, so again you are bringing up old news.

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I prove Oner's point wrong, he disregards it, doesn't post a reply to it (but he does post a reply to the post that he can "prove wrong") then uses that very information that I proved wrong again... in the same thread. This is the third time I have had to correct your "proof" yet you are still using it. And to make matters worse you are claiming that other members are to lazy to find proof. Far out.

In response to the squaretrade arguement: When that gamescom (or whatever it was) 54.2% rrod fail rate survey came out a few weeks ago all the ps3 fanboys were backing it. Now a survey that from a reliable company comes out you disregard it...

In response to Oner's response to the ps3 sale rates: It's not MS fault sony was too late to release the ps3. Even if sony did release the ps3 at the same time as the xbox it would have been a $500 xbox vs a $900 ps3, with basically the same aspects, I know which one I would buy. Just changing the release date and saying the ps3 has more sales is rubbish, there is way to many variables to change the outcome

Originally posted by chris4160:

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I prove Oner's point wrong, he disregards it, doesn't post a reply to it (but he does post a reply to the post that he can "prove wrong") then uses that very information that I proved wrong again... in the same thread. This is the third time I have had to correct your "proof" yet you are still using it. And to make matters worse you are claiming that other members are to lazy to find proof. Far out.

In response to the squaretrade arguement: When that gamescom (or whatever it was) 54.2% rrod fail rate survey came out a few weeks ago all the ps3 fanboys were backing it. Now a survey that from a reliable company comes out you disregard it...

In response to Oner's response to the ps3 sale rates: It's not MS fault sony was too late to release the ps3. Even if sony did release the ps3 at the same time as the xbox it would have been a $500 xbox vs a $900 ps3, with basically the same aspects, I know which one I would buy. Just changing the release date and saying the ps3 has more sales is rubbish, there is way to many variables to change the outcome

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Um probably because it doesn't matter. You didn't prove ANYTHING or ANYONE wrong. Xclamp, Solder, MB Flex, Lack of cooling etc...It is STILL an admission of 11 MILLION 360's BEING DEFECTIVE. That is the bottom line and the point I have always said, nothing else. What more is there to say? That is what you don't seem to get. I gave you a direct link to the proof the other day. You don't want to accept it. Not my fault.

I am repeating the same thing over and over and over and over...I never said all those 360's are RROD failures (another thing I have said before and actually said right here in this thread!) just that they are DEFECTIVE by admission from Microsoft. YOU just don't want to understand that and continue to try and prove something I NEVER SAID nor believe. I don't even believe the 54.2% figure because that was just a poll from the readers of THAT website. NOT from MS themselves, just like I don't believe the 1% figure from SquareTrade. BUT even SquareTrade says they believe the failure rate could be as high as 35%.

The problem is you are trying to prove me wrong about something I never said nor believe. THAT is where you are getting frustrated with and can't seem to let go.

Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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You posted that in response to the squaretrade rrod survey, now tell me that was not implying 11 miilion units rrod. And if it wasn't there was no use in posting that 2 year old info. Basically what you admitted in your above post is that your ONLY PROOF has very little link to rrod.

Who cares if 11 million units are possibly defective, it does not mean 11 million units have rrod like you implied. You "prefer to go by the horses mouth" although the horse has never released a failure rate, you implied they did.

Atleast ms had the decency to own up for their mistakes.

Originally posted by chris4160:

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Originally posted by Oner:

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Weird how you couldn't provide it earlier when asked, then only to post something that came out today or so? Odd isn't it? But whatever...SquareTrade is not Microsoft and is an outside party not privy to EXACT numbers, whereas (as I have stated before) Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected. Less affected *YES* but still a major issue.

I prefer to go by the horses mouth. Microsoft. Not an external party. Take that as you please.

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You posted that in response to the squaretrade rrod survey, now tell me that was not implying 11 miilion units rrod. And if it wasn't there was no use in posting that 2 year old info. Basically what you admitted in your above post is that your ONLY PROOF has very little link to rrod.

Who cares if 11 million units are possibly defective, it does not mean 11 million units have rrod like you implied. You "prefer to go by the horses mouth" although the horse has never released a failure rate, you implied they did.

Atleast ms had the decency to own up for their mistakes.

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OMG. What is so hard to understand? Here I go explaining again what is clear as day previously.....I said "Microsoft themselves admitted to over 11 Million 360's being defective in the first 19 months of sales and every revision thereafter still proved to be affected." no where does it say say those are 11 Million RROD's...just that at least 11 Million 360's sold in the first 19 months are defective/affected. What can't you comprehend?

Holy crap did I just restate what I just repeated twice in the same sentence and like 3 or 4 times already...seriously...READING COMPREHENSION FTL...


Edit: Actually this has gone WAAAY too far and has derailed the thread to nothing...if you want to keep this up please PM me. Sorry to all our members.

Originally posted by DVDBack23:

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What was decided, at least by myself and Dela, was that the console articles having comments disabled will be at the discretion of the writer of the article. Didn't think there would be too much drama in a speculation article about Xbox 360 pricing tbh. :P

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LoL...apparently not!

In addition to the fact that very few people will report an error to an aftermarket repair company while the unit is still under warantee, there is another thing to remembmer about their numbers...

All of their other data was a 2-year scale...that is, the percent that failed over the course of 24 months. The data for the new xbox360 was based on a unit that has been available less than 10 months, and many of the owners have only owned their system for half of that or less. Granted, the new 360 is a lot more reliable than the orriginal...but it is still not very reliable.

MS sold a console that they knew was having issues,even denied it if memory serves until the noise got too loud,even then it took em ages to provide a decent warranty,problem is there's a whole stack of 360's out there that are just crap,which are more than likely being sold on ebay etc,in the mean time you have those console sellers upgrading to the new consoles in the hope all will be well & since mine has had no issues from November 08 as well as others like me who waited for a price drop then the 360's lead is not a real testament to it's actual sales performance,the only way to know that for sure would've been if the 360 had a normal fail rate so with that scientifically proven explanation the 360's lead just got smaller