Microsoft denies Blu-ray Xbox 360s, again

HD Digital Downloads? How much Hard-drive space does a 360 have again? Why don't they get with reality here and just get better support and keep bringin good games to the people like they are now? All they have to do is one up the tech support..or build their system as sturdy as the PS3 or Wii.

I hate to burst your bubble but the wii and the ps3 are not as sturdy as the xbox 360 all though first edition xbox 360 consoles had the red ring of death look at sony and nintendo bad graphic processors processors fail do to overheat issues on the ps3 bad blu-ray drives on the ps3 and even the wii has had the same issues so what is different nothing all consoles will fail at some point and time.

Originally posted by susieqbbb:

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I hate to burst your bubble but the wii and the ps3 are not as sturdy as the xbox 360 all though first edition xbox 360 consoles had the red ring of death look at sony and nintendo bad graphic processors processors fail do to overheat issues on the ps3 bad blu-ray drives on the ps3 and even the wii has had the same issues so what is different nothing all consoles will fail at some point and time.

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I take it you don't have a ps3 do you? No overheating issue w my first gen PS3. I guess when i spend my $$ for a first gen system, I have received what i have paid for. My blu-ray drive is still good. I even have a wii too...first gen too. No problems either.

Where is your source? the 360 has a 30% fail rate. that's a 1/3 console, 3/10. 30 out of 100..as opposed to the 3-5 out of a 100. Look in the other forums dude, you'll find it. Look at the 3-5% rate of failure for the PS3. Seems pretty normal to me. Compared to the 360. Check this one http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13770.cfm, look at the comments section-it explains a lot.

Originally posted by susieqbbb:

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I hate to burst your bubble but the wii and the ps3 are not as sturdy as the xbox 360 all though first edition xbox 360 consoles had the red ring of death look at sony and nintendo bad graphic processors processors fail do to overheat issues on the ps3 bad blu-ray drives on the ps3 and even the wii has had the same issues so what is different nothing all consoles will fail at some point and time.

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Quote:

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Check this one http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/13770.cfm, look at the comments section-it explains a lot.

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Haha... speaking of "bursting bubbles".


And HD downloads don't make any sense for the 360 at all... MAYBE if they unlock a USB or two...

Largest library of the shortest games ;)

I can't see them advancing any more then they already have without going BR, multi-DVD or perhaps some sort of flash media or a small HDD... Something bigger then a DVD-9...

Same with the Wii, but the Wii is the Wii lol

RROD.... ok now here is a good question.

What is the percentage of people with RROD who dont actually own one of the older models of the xbox360? Most of the statistics people keep posting about the reliability of the 360 are including the faulty consoles. Is that fair to the people who are considering buying a xbox30 now considering Microsoft has supposedly fixed the problem of overheating in the newer consoles. I boughtmy 360 this year and have no problems with overheating at all though it is loud as hell (LOL). All the people i know personally who have had RROD have launch consoles. People should take that into account b/c their is a difference in the older xboxs and the newer ones that dont overheat.

How bought someone post newer updated statistics for the xbox 360 versions that Microsoft claims have been revamped to stop the problems with the RROD. Unless someone can actually show that the newer versions are still horrible in reliability I will continue to recommend the console with the biggest and best lineup of games. And that is the Xbox 360. Im in it for the games. I do not support a console by favoritism. When sony had the ps2 i supported them b.c they had the best lineup of games. Now it is vice versa. I just wish some of the fanboys would realise that it is not always about who has the better looking version of the game. Especially when there is not much diff b/t the graphics at this current time when games are released on both consoles. True gamers are about the best selections of games and that can vary from person to person.

Even with the "newer" ones, the fail rate is no less then 16% which is still considerably high... And I thought that new falcon chip or whatever was to solve that overheating problem :P

I am not saying you are not right but it would be great if you could support that with a couple links that may help to show that to be true. How do you know those numbers are only referring to the newer consoles that use the falcon chip? Please post a link so it can be validated. Otherwise it is just word of mouth.

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/15814/Repo...ailure-Rate-16/

There's a quick Google for ya. Dated Febuary 28th of this year.

I don't think that includes Falcon chips but they still have the possibility of overheating, there's just a smaller chance of it actually happening. Plus, a new processor is no solution for crap lasers etc.

Lol my friend's 360's laser died and it burned a big ring in his GoW disc... The online still works but not the campaign :P

I will admit that I like my 360 but I'm on my 3rd one...that red ring of death is a mother...but the games are rather on the short side.As far as microsoft going blu,well I can see that happening but not anytime soon because they got to try this digital download thing first and then when/if that fails then try the blu ray add on market.

Originally posted by viny1313:

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Largest library of the shortest games ;)

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No kidding! Considering the largest 360 title: Halo 3, is beaten in less than 10 hours on average. Many players report under 8. I beat it in co-op online (with 1 other friend) back in November in under 6 hours. Blu-Ray would have opened much more space for that title and added SOOO much more.

Who is making these rumors? There is no way the 360 could handle a Blu Ray drive. Just like Microsoft said, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

probaly inside guys trying to give hell to their divisions....as for now i would agree that they wont release another =360 type.....although BD-r is a sure thing in the next gen!

Originally posted by hulud86:

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Who is making these rumors? There is no way the 360 could handle a Blu Ray drive. Just like Microsoft said, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

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wut?
the 360is more than capable enough to handle it nooby*lick*. :P

susieqbbb
how uu compare 30% fail rate which has not gone down much to a brealy 5% fail rate each for the PS3/WII?


the 360 is overly locked and needs new hardware thats not broken out of the box, the BR drive IMO is what it needs to get over itself, will see if they cock it up or not.

Lol I was just thinkin'... It really must suck when your 360 breaks because either M$ fixes the problem in the cheapest way possible or they send you a refurb, which is basically the same thing. Like the one guy abve on his 3rd 360, it's just one after another, especially if they just keep fixing what keeps breakng on the same console :S

My friend just had his fixed... They sent him a refurbished one... He's now super pissed and paranoid of it breaking again lol

I was speaking to someone at work the other day and he mentioned a 3 disc game for the Xbox 360 like it was a good thing. The tonality of his statement was that of making it sound like it's such a big game, to which I couldn't help but laugh.

He then wondered why I was laughing, I then said imagine when the next Final Fantasy installment is released for the 360! Are we looking at 6 DVD-9's?

I finished off the conversation saying that at least the PS3 wont have that problem, to which he looked confused. I then said Blu-ray, thinking this should provide an answer to all of his confusion but the light of sudden understanding failed to shine upon him. He still looked confused, so I said 50GB Blu-ray dual layer (PS3) vs. 8.5GB DVD dual layer (XBox 360). He still looked confused! So I left the poor guy alone... LOL!

I just wanted to share my story. This is a story that like my friend at work and other XBox 360 fan boys/girls may not understand or more to the point are in denial and are blind to the actual facts. The truth of the matter is that the Blu-ray drive is probably the most crucial component to the success of the PS3 and has guaranteed it's place in a future minded market.

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Originally posted by hulud86:

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Who is making these rumors? There is no way the 360 could handle a Blu Ray drive. Just like Microsoft said, it's not going to happen anytime soon.

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wut?
the 360is more than capable enough to handle it nooby*lick*. :P

susieqbbb
how uu compare 30% fail rate which has not gone down much to a brealy 5% fail rate each for the PS3/WII?


the 360 is overly locked and needs new hardware thats not broken out of the box, the BR drive IMO is what it needs to get over itself, will see if they cock it up or not.

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Well with all the problems i've had with the Xbox 360 (red ring of death + overheating incidents). I don't think it could handle Blu Ray.

In my opinion the 360 has enough trouble running correctly as it is, and adding more to it won't help. But who knows, i could be very wrong and it could run better than a brand new Toyota.

Bill Gates will say anything for a buck (OK lots of bucks)

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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I was speaking to someone at work the other day and he mentioned a 3 disc game for the Xbox 360 like it was a good thing. The tonality of his statement was that of making it sound like it's such a big game, to which I couldn't help but laugh.

He then wondered why I was laughing, I then said imagine when the next Final Fantasy installment is released for the 360! Are we looking at 6 DVD-9's?

I finished off the conversation saying that at least the PS3 wont have that problem, to which he looked confused. I then said Blu-ray, thinking this should provide an answer to all of his confusion but the light of sudden understanding failed to shine upon him. He still looked confused, so I said 50GB Blu-ray dual layer (PS3) vs. 8.5GB DVD dual layer (XBox 360). He still looked confused! So I left the poor guy alone... LOL!

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remember ff7 on the ps1 that was shipped on 4 cd's? it didn't spoil my enjoyment that i had to change the disc every 4 or 5 days.

blu-ray is kinda MEH and is not needed, this news story feels just like sony fud to keep blu-ray in the media radar because of poor sales that are flagging even more with every week that passes, with some free advertising while pointing out that the ps3 is the future because it has blu-ray, and the 360 does not, don't make me laugh its pure sony Public Relations SPIN

why does a game console require an install and patches exactly omg.......

Originally posted by link:

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In public relations, spin is a sometimes pejorative term signifying a heavily biased portrayal in one's own favor of an event or situation. While traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often, though not always, implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics. Politicians are often accused of spin by commentators and political opponents, when they produce a counter argument or position. In the modern world, most PR practitioners are discouraged to use spin because it is fundamentally counterproductive to the industry's ultimate goal of building relationships with constituents.

The techniques of "spin" include Selectively presenting facts and quotes that support one's position (cherry picking), the so-called "non-denial denial," Phrasing in a way that assumes unproven truths, euphemisms for drawing attention away from items considered distasteful, and ambiguity in public statements. Another spin technique involves careful choice of timing in the release of certain news so it can take advantage of prominent events in the news. A famous reference to this practice occurred when British Government press officer Jo Moore used the phrase It's now a very good day to get out anything we want to bury, (widely paraphrased or misquoted as "It's a good day to bury bad news"), in an email sent on September 11, 2001. The furor caused when this email was reported in the press eventually caused her to resign.

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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remember ff7 on the ps1 that was shipped on 4 cd's? it didn't spoil my enjoyment that i had to change the disc every 4 or 5 days.

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Actually, FF VII consisted of 3 CD's. It was VIII and IX that were a 4 CD compilation.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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blu-ray is kinda MEH and is not needed, this news story feels just like sony fud to keep blu-ray in the media radar because of poor sales that are flagging even more with every week that passes, with some free advertising while pointing out that the ps3 is the future because it has blu-ray, and the 360 does not, don't make me laugh its pure sony Public Relations SPIN

why does a game console require an install and patches exactly omg.......

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Lot's of things in this World aren't needed. In fact video gaming in general is nowhere near considered a necessity. It is a luxury and Blu-ray is also a luxury, one that some of us can afford and those that can't afford it just keep on whinging about it!

I'd like to ask something, if given the choice of having a game on 6 discs or 1, without taking price point, Blu-ray or any other personal vendettas into the equation, which would you honestly prefer? You can't tell me that if given the choice you would rather have a game spread accross multiple discs instead of the convenience of just one?

Like always, your points have no logic and are more based on emotional dislike for Sony. If your point was true, why don't we just go back to the stone ages and start using floppy discs again? Come on... 512Kb should be enough!! Wake up! The future will bring more media rich content in gaming as well as films, with that comes the need for media that can support the larger data storage demands that the future will require. With today's technology 8.5GB is starting to sound kind of lame.

By the way, I have just made a career change and I am now working in a major audio/visual electrical appliance store. The reaction I am getting from customers about Blu-ray is not "MEH" as you say... It is more like "WOW! That looks amazing!". Every single person I have demonstrated this technology to can easily see the difference in visual quality these discs cater for.

Sorry Ryu77 but that just sounds the same as the sony sales patter/rhetoric, the "oh if you dis the ps3 you obviously cant afford one" or "blu-ray is the future, don't live in the stone age" or "because its more expensive it has to be better" its just like the hard sales tactics that time share sales use, its pathetic and condescending and will only sway the brainless "keeping up with the joneses" types and kids/teenagers! They are trying to sell a lifestyle, a "wow i must be rich" as i own blu-ray. lmfao

hey, hey look everyone i own-blu ray want to be my friend as i am "daddy cool"!


Hi-Def is better & i agree, as any pc gamer can tell you as we have had Hi-Def visuals for a very, very long time, its NOT a new phenomenon, and it matters little to me what media is delivered on, as long as its consumer friendly, read speeds are fast and efficient, and as cheap as possible. *edit* and durable, solid state will be the format of choice once prices drop, imho!

changing discs do not bother me as you don't have to change them every five minuets, which is what the sony bloggers are trying to make out, i care little that i have to maybe change a disc once every few days if its cheaper, faster and less controlled by DRM.

blu-ray is an over priced, anti-consumer, DRM loaded storage medium, that has more DRM than ANY previous media EVER.

recent sales figures show ppl don't care and unless you have a huge screen blu-ray is of no benefit over up-scaling dvd's to the average consumer because its just a few extra pixels and an extortionate price, in the home blu-ray is especially pointless seems that current dvd hardware and software works with all equipment and you don't need to balance your equipment dictated to by HDCP HDMI DRM that blocks any none trusted connections forcing you to (up)downgrade all your equipment to DRM malware units.

@nobrainer
we are almost at the 2nd decade of the 2nd millennium.
PS1 was 10+years ago, 3gens back and you say that cause PS1(that my PSP is more powerful) had a game in 3-4 discs is ok a today's console with X times better features is ok to do the same?

It would be even better if x360 had the games in 500 5,25 diskettes, more consumer friendly, no DRM, no locks, nothing.

Blind at will.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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Sorry Ryu77 but that just sounds the same as the sony sales patter/rhetoric, the "oh if you dis the ps3 you obviously cant afford one" or "blu-ray is the future, don't live in the stone age" or "because its more expensive it has to be better" its just like the hard sales tactics that time share sales use, its pathetic and condescending and will only sway the brainless "keeping up with the joneses" types and kids/teenagers! They are trying to sell a lifestyle, a "wow i must be rich" as i own blu-ray. lmfao

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I can assure you that the people that I have demonstrated Blu-ray to are far from brainless. In actual fact many of them are quite successful and intelligent people.

Yes, it is about lifestyle. As I stated, almost none of the items discussed on AfterDawn are necessities of life. DVD is a luxury, gaming is a luxury, as is Blu-ray.

Of course Blu-ray is considered the next generation of home entertainment. At this point in time, it is mainly enthusiasts that will adopt this technology. This was the same for DVD at its inception. It took many years for DVD to become available at a price point that was more suited to the mid class (or lower) to be financially viable. Why should it be any different for Blu-ray? Given some time, I am sure that we will see a slow but steady price reduction in this technology.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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Hi-Def is better & i agree, as any pc gamer can tell you as we have had Hi-Def visuals for a very, very long time, its NOT a new phenomenon, and it matters little to me what media is delivered on, as long as its consumer friendly, read speeds are fast and efficient, and as cheap as possible. *edit* and durable, solid state will be the format of choice once prices drop, imho!

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Again, I will ask if given the choice to have media delivered on one disc or on multiple... Which would you chose? Please think of this without considering the Blu-ray format into your answer. I say that as it's already clear how you feel about Sony and the Blu-ray format. All I am after is an answer from a practicality perspective.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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changing discs do not bother me as you don't have to change them every five minuets, which is what the sony bloggers are trying to make out, i care little that i have to maybe change a disc once every few days if its cheaper, faster and less controlled by DRM.

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Nobody is stating that you will need to change discs every five minutes without Blu-ray. However, there will be more discs required. This equals more packaging and more discs that need to be pressed. Once Blu-ray manufacturing costs drop, I am confident to say that it will cost less to manufacture one Blu-ray disc vs. 6 DVD-9's. Think about today, what costs more 6 blank CD's or 1 blank DVD? Also, it is common sense that if a newer, higher capacity format is readily available... Wouldn't it make more sense to utilise it?

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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blu-ray is an over priced, anti-consumer, DRM loaded storage medium, that has more DRM than ANY previous media EVER.

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That is because piracy is higher than ever. You can not blame the production studios for wanting to protect their content. If you lived in a high crime area, would you want contents insurance for your home? I know that this scenario isn't directly comparable but you do need to consider the position of these production studios. Let's think about this for a minute and imagine a future where piracy continued to rise and studios kept losing money. Eventually will come a time where no money can be made from this industry at all. So either we will see advertisement ridden media or there will be almost nothing of quality on offer.

I don't know about you but this isn't the future that I want to see.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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recent sales figures show ppl don't care and unless you have a huge screen blu-ray is of no benefit over up-scaling dvd's to the average consumer because its just a few extra pixels and an extortionate price

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As I said earlier... I am working in a large Audio/Visual appliance store and the reaction I am getting from customers is that Blu-ray is far from useless. So I can say with solid proof that people do care about the extra quality that Blu-ray provides.

How does 5-6 times the resolution over DVD equal a few extra pixels?

NTSC DVD 720 x 480 = 345,600 pixels.
Blu-ray 1920 x 1080 = 2,073,600 pixels.

Looks like more than a "few" extra pixels to me.

Also, you state that my theory on the people that complain about Blu-ray are those that generally feel that it's out of their price range. You always offer your rebuttal on this point that I make. However, you constantly complain about the price! I must say that this proves my point.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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in the home blu-ray is especially pointless seems that current dvd hardware and software works with all equipment and you don't need to balance your equipment dictated to by HDCP HDMI DRM that blocks any none trusted connections forcing you to (up)downgrade all your equipment to DRM malware units.

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Connecting Blu-ray is as simple as a HDMI connection. Please don't over complicate this nobrainer.

To get HD (1080p) video from a Blu-ray disc, all you need is a HDMI connection from your Blu-ray player to your TV.

For HD audio (Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD), there are a few options...

1) Connect your player to a HDMI v1.3 enabled AV receiver that has Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding support.
2) Decode the audio on board the player and output up to 7.1 LPCM via HDMI to any HDMI enabled AV receiver.
3) Decode the audio on board the player and output via the multi channel analog outputs to your AV reciever.

That's it! It doesn't get any more complicated than that!

I know that you wont agree with me nobrainer and I am expecting another of your immature, anti Blu-ray posts. Those that are enjoying the benefits of Blu-ray know that the DRM Monster that you are trying to manufacture is nothing more than a harmless little Boogie Man that is only there to scare away any attempts at analog duplication methods.

This is starting to drag off topic yet again. This type of conversation truly amazes me. I can't understand why people feel the need to put things down. I don't even feel good about making these points on a XBox 360 news thread, as I believe that they should be left alone to enjoy their product of choice.

@ Ryu77

you have digressed somewhat my friend from my post about media manipulation to get free advertising and at the same time calling dvd optical media stone age. blu-ray for gaming is not needed.

anyways it all rather sounds like an excuses list, that are issued to sales men.

For the second time, i do NOT care on the medium as long as it's cheap, consumer friendly (no drm), fast and reliable.

solid state is the way forward, the mechanics of optical media is "the stone age" blu-ray is no different.

what does drm do exactly, it gives the studios unreasonable anti consumer tools to rip every one off and impose extra charges lets not forget sony is the mpaa/riaa and these tactics are not welcomed, you can ask m$ all about that with their os crippling DRM forced on them by the MPAA.

DRM is price fixing.

iPod tax: UK music biz open to format shifting... for a fee

Originally posted by link:

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Device manufacturers, who are apparently building their fortunes on the back of the music industry's content without paying for the privilege (err, but didn't the consumers already pay for the discs?), would have to pay a license fee to the music business that would be split among all the involved parties according to a formula that makes the Schrodinger equation look like a bit of first-term algebra.

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A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection

Originally posted by link:

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This is by design: as Jack Valenti, former head of the MPAA, put it, “If you buy a DVD you have a copy. If you want a backup copy you buy another one”). It's obvious why this type of business model makes the pain of pushing content protection onto consumers so worthwhile since it practically constitutes a license to print money.

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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@ Ryu77

you have digressed somewhat my friend from my post about media manipulation to get free advertising and at the same time calling dvd optical media stone age. blu-ray for gaming is not needed.

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The way you twist words is worse than a Woman. I referenced floppy discs as being from the stone age not DVD's.

I did state however, that a capacity of 8.5GB does sound kind of limiting (the actual word I used was "lame") in the High-Def age, especially when 50GB Blu-ray discs are readily available.

Free advertising?? What? You must be kidding. You might as well suggest that we shut down AfterDawn then... As Microsoft, Apple, Sony, Toshiba, Netflix, Warner Bros. etc. etc. get way too much free advertising.

You really need to get out more. The future needs people that are ready to accept new ideas and technology, not those that want to hold onto the past.

PS: Both those links you provided have nothing to do with the type of DRM that Blu-ray has utilised. In actual fact, I don't even know if BD+ or AACS can be termed "DRM". The mechanisms in place on Blu-ray discs are more better termed copy prevention technologies... All of which are easily penetrable.

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@ Ryu77

you have digressed somewhat my friend from my post about media manipulation to get free advertising and at the same time calling dvd optical media stone age. blu-ray for gaming is not needed.

anyways it all rather sounds like an excuses list, that are issued to sales men.

For the second time, i do NOT care on the medium as long as it's cheap, consumer friendly (no drm), fast and reliable.

solid state is the way forward, the mechanics of optical media is "the stone age" blu-ray is no different.

what does drm do exactly, it gives the studios unreasonable anti consumer tools to rip every one off and impose extra charges lets not forget sony is the mpaa/riaa and these tactics are not welcomed, you can ask m$ all about that with their os crippling DRM forced on them by the MPAA.

DRM is price fixing.

iPod tax: UK music biz open to format shifting... for a fee

Originally posted by link:

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Device manufacturers, who are apparently building their fortunes on the back of the music industry's content without paying for the privilege (err, but didn't the consumers already pay for the discs?), would have to pay a license fee to the music business that would be split among all the involved parties according to a formula that makes the Schrodinger equation look like a bit of first-term algebra.

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A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection

Originally posted by link:

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This is by design: as Jack Valenti, former head of the MPAA, put it, “If you buy a DVD you have a copy. If you want a backup copy you buy another one”). It's obvious why this type of business model makes the pain of pushing content protection onto consumers so worthwhile since it practically constitutes a license to print money.

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I think it's needed... That or some other media device with a bigger capacity... If games continue to be limmited by space then they won't get any better then they already are.

Basically without the extra space they won't be able to expand.

E.g. I think Resistance 2 for PS3 is supposed to take up a full dual layer BR disc and it's supposed to have like 2 campaigns and 60 player multiplayer (so I've heard) and Gears of War as an 8 hour campaign, a tad short... Halo 3 was no better...

@ nobrainer and ryu77...you guys are funny n pointing out solid stuff here and there. Im for Blu-ray, so i feel more for ryu77. But to nobrainer im sure Blu-ray will become the cheaper medium and reliable as its the only new medium up from DVDs, and when DVDs become like CDs what will you use for your new "DVD type" medium? People can hate Sony and their DRM etc, but eventually they cant ignore them unless the entire world will disregard the whole disc medium altogether since Blu-ray is the next gen medium. Maybe not anytime soon, but ppl are slowly starting to upgrade and if Blu-ray still exsist im sure you will too.

Doubtful.. some of us have already embraced the future without overpriced ripoff media and are streaming HD downloaded content to large screen displays... all without the need for anything more than a good graphics card, a decent amount of ram and a good internet connection.

If you use the myth-tv system it just shows how obsolete these large capacity fragile disks are.

M$ could have also ensured the survival of a doomed media format by fitting the 360 with a hd-dvd drive and supplying games on that medium.. Instead they chose tried and tested technology for reasons of cost, and probably because their futurologists saw the end of hd spinning disks within the life of the console.

3 or 4 years and the 100 gig stick will be a reality and games will be sold as roms again, (they are now.. but you know what I mean if you are a gamer) on sticks or by download. It is possible the 360 has been designed with this very future in mind... why else the usb ports?

The blu boys are crying because their format of choice is languishing in the pit of general rejection now the "format war" is over and the people who want to pay a fortune "keeping up with the Joneses" have spent for little return.

Another beta/umd fiasco? very likely.

varnull
HDVD would have been perfect for games because there are no burners out or at least not many, the format is jsut prefect for gaming, but for a HD system you need a full media setup, so BR it is, but if they over price it they lose.

Yeah, I don't understand why MS didn't just take over HDDVD as its own format for the 360. If there are very little HDVDVD burners available, then a game with loads of content would be a lot more difficult to strip and downsize to a DVD-9.

Blu-ray re-writeable discs retail for $.60/GB.
DVD-9 discs retail for $.27/GB
HDD space varies, but can be found to average $.20/GB

I'm bluray all the way now, but not for the movies. At least not until they go down in price. Because while some people complain about crippling anti-consumer DRM, I know that where there is a will, there is a way, and it will always get cracked. So if I own a bluray movie and I want a backup to play instead of the original, I know that there will always be a place to download it. I agree with Ryu77 regarding the need to store more content on higher capacity media. More information requires more space. A form of higher capacity media seems like it would help the 360. The 360 seems to be on its way to becoming a multi-media center rather than a gaming console.

I want the space bluray provides. I purchased a HD camcorder recently for my family. It records at approximately 108 MB's/minute at amazing quality. I don't have the hardware to edit it yet, and I can only view the movies on my PC through a program provided that scales it down for viewing. So I archive everything as data on DVD-9 discs. About 70 minutes at a time. I'm looking to my next build in a year and bluray burners and media coming down a little more in price, so that I can do what I did when DVD-9's came out - consolidate.

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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I did state however, that a capacity of 8.5GB does sound kind of limiting (the actual word I used was "lame") in the High-Def age, especially when 50GB Blu-ray discs are readily available.

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so is tape which is much faster than, dvd and blu-ray and is far cheaper and holds in excess of 300gb, i suppose this is why its used for servers and why blu-ray will never be used for servers or backups!

optical media is limited by mechanics which is why solid state will be the format of the future as soon as price allows as the data transfer speed is unmatched and there is already flash cards in greater sizes than blu-ray but of course sony would make their own propertarian format and call it Memory Stick PRO Duo Drm Malware Rootit The Third, while other manufacturers choose somthing like much cheaper SD and sony products would block all other cheaper, none sony brands because DRM, and copwrite is there to protect the consumer eh!

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Free advertising?? What? You must be kidding. You might as well suggest that we shut down AfterDawn then... As Microsoft, Apple, Sony, Toshiba, Netflix, Warner Bros. etc. etc. get way too much free advertising.

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the free advertising is via fud created and the interweb goes crazy, its typical public relations spin, because it's in the news means ppl are talking about it, and because m$ 360 has not got a blu-ray drive and the ps3 has, its pro sony anti m$, queue the 360 stone age blu-ray future, remarks and buckets of free advertising for the future format!!!

and from that point you digressed and changed to path of this thread stating pro blu-ray comments about ppl care about the films and it look awesome. is the 360 a movie player?

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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PS: Both those links you provided have nothing to do with the type of DRM that Blu-ray has utilised. In actual fact, I don't even know if BD+ or AACS can be termed "DRM". The mechanisms in place on Blu-ray discs are more better termed copy prevention technologies... All of which are easily penetrable.

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the links were about DRM restrictions being used by the mpaa/riaa aka sony to price fix and dictate to customers that if they want to shift media they own then sony wants to get paid every time you move it from one device you own to another and wants to stop ppl being able to backup their media as selling multiple copies to ppl generates more revenue.

AACS are the mpaa's tool to block all untrusted connections and BD+ is possible the most anti consumer drm ever conceived, paving the way for anti-consumer licensing that sony already started with the psn release of warhawk and xcp rootkit with phone home authorisation media that you don't own and are not allowed to sell or lend.

Sony's EULA is worse than their rootkit

Originally posted by sony eula via link:

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If you're unfortunate enough to buy music from Sony, you may think that the worst thing they'll do to you is screw you by infecting your computer with malicious rootkit software. Not so! Rootkits are only the beginning. If you want to see how Sony really gives its customers the shaft, have a look at these conditions in the license you have to agree to when you put a Sony music CD in your computer:

1. If your house gets burgled, you have to delete all your music from your laptop when you get home. That's because the EULA says that your rights to any copies terminate as soon as you no longer possess the original CD.

2. You can't keep your music on any computers at work. The EULA only gives you the right to put copies on a "personal home computer system owned by you."

3. If you move out of the country, you have to delete all your music. The EULA specifically forbids "export" outside the country where you reside.

4. You must install any and all updates, or else lose the music on your computer. The EULA immediately terminates if you fail to install any update. No more holding out on those hobble-ware downgrades masquerading as updates.

5. Sony-BMG can install and use backdoors in the copy protection software or media player to "enforce their rights" against you, at any time, without notice. And Sony-BMG disclaims any liability if this "self help" crashes your computer, exposes you to security risks, or any other harm.

6. The EULA says Sony-BMG will never be liable to you for more than $5.00. That's right, no matter what happens, you can't even get back what you paid for the CD.

7. If you file for bankruptcy, you have to delete all the music on your computer. Seriously.

8. You have no right to transfer the music on your computer, even along with the original CD.

9. Forget about using the music as a soundtrack for your latest family photo slideshow, or mash-ups, or sampling. The EULA forbids changing, altering, or make derivative works from the music on your computer.

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but, but sony need to do this to protect us from pirates!

@nobrainer
Ryu said it once and i repost he's words

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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The way you twist words is worse than a Woman.

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@ ryu77 i really admire your patiences.

@nobrainer
I work at graphic arts, and yes nobrainer we back up to BD long time now, cause even the verb DVD's are less trust worthy than a BD disc.
BD are scratch proof, durabis does it's job really good, and 25-50gb you can backup a lot of staff at once.

Quote:

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@nobrainer
Ryu said it once and i repost he's words

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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The way you twist words is worse than a Woman.

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@ ryu77 i really admire your patiences.

@nobrainer
I work at graphic arts, and yes nobrainer we back up to BD long time now, cause even the verb DVD's are less trust worthy than a BD disc.
BD are scratch proof, durabis does it's job really good, and 25-50gb you can backup a lot of staff at once.

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SDF_GR
BR is not cost effective yet, its cheaper to use a rack with HDDs in it more often then not.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Quote:

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@nobrainer
Ryu said it once and i repost he's words

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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The way you twist words is worse than a Woman.

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@ ryu77 i really admire your patiences.

@nobrainer
I work at graphic arts, and yes nobrainer we back up to BD long time now, cause even the verb DVD's are less trust worthy than a BD disc.
BD are scratch proof, durabis does it's job really good, and 25-50gb you can backup a lot of staff at once.

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SDF_GR
BR is not cost effective yet, its cheaper to use a rack with HDDs in it more often then not.

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@ SDF_GR

lmfao, omg how long does it take to backup and restore using you oh so good format?

@ zippy

i doubt there is truth there zippy as i'm sure you know that mostly all firms use tape or caddies and the very small ones use multiple dvd's but this works out expensive with even poor backups of monthly and incremental and as you pointed out what company would waste monies on a format that has so many cost effective alternatives i think he's talking fluff.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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Quote:

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@nobrainer
Ryu said it once and i repost he's words

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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The way you twist words is worse than a Woman.

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@ ryu77 i really admire your patiences.

@nobrainer
I work at graphic arts, and yes nobrainer we back up to BD long time now, cause even the verb DVD's are less trust worthy than a BD disc.
BD are scratch proof, durabis does it's job really good, and 25-50gb you can backup a lot of staff at once.

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SDF_GR
BR is not cost effective yet, its cheaper to use a rack with HDDs in it more often then not.

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@ SDF_GR

lmfao, omg how long does it take to backup and restore using you oh so good format?

@ zippy

i doubt there is truth there zippy as i'm sure you know that mostly all firms use tape or caddies and the very small ones use multiple dvd's but this works out expensive with even poor backups of monthly and incremental and as you pointed out what company would waste monies on a format that has so many cost effective alternatives i think he's talking fluff.

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lets see 500GB HDDs are say 75$ a pop average
BR is oh 800 a a slow burner and discs are 17-30$ a disc,so 170$ for the first 500GB ,and hello you can pull the HDD and store it just as easy as 10+ BR discs,plus no need to sperate archives.

now when you can get 500GB of space for 50$ and the burner is 200$ thats a whole other ball game.

@ nobrainer
it takes me 10years, so? You point? DVD did the same time when were 1st released.
Speaking of the devil, at 2001 at my company we have bough a philips x1 dvd recorder, 980 euros!!!!plus that when we were writing DVD's we didnt even breath over the PC.

Now tell me nobrainer cause i cant recall, how much cost had a blank DVDr 4,5gb back in 2001?

Cause now we pay 20euros for a 50gb blank scratch proof disc.
......and tape??backup on tape???and you complain about the BD recording time???
OMG you dont know what you saying?do you?
and what DVD cost?when you are a company you dont buy 1 dvd you buy thousands.
We get 1000 dvd's 10cases x 100 dvd's each for 100euros, what DVD back up cost? 10euros for 100dvd's.
were is the high cost? if you find it let me know.
and to prove you that you don't know what you are saying, if a customer asks he's job.....
what i will say to him?
wait 3 years to restore it from the tape?

Ryu77 you are a hero mate.

@ZippyDSM
When the job is a 1000+pages book, with tif and eps files , with size from 50mb to 300mb or even more, well we rather burn 1 disc rather 11 dvdrs.
I have Postscripts more than 10gb's each that were never been back up, i was tranfering them from server to server every time that i wanted to change/do something something, with DB i must have free up more or less 5tb.
Dunno what you are saying but BD recorder has given back to us the money , just from the HDD space that we regain.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:

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@ nobrainer
it takes me 10years, so? You point? DVD did the same time when were 1st released.
Speaking of the devil, at 2001 at my company we have bough a philips x1 dvd recorder, 980 euros!!!!plus that when we were writing DVD's we didnt even breath over the PC.

Now tell me nobrainer cause i cant recall, how much cost had a blank DVDr 4,5gb back in 2001?

Cause now we pay 20euros for a 50gb blank scratch proof disc.
......and tape??backup on tape???and you complain about the BD recording time???
OMG you dont know what you saying?do you?
and what DVD cost?when you are a company you dont buy 1 dvd you buy thousands.
We get 1000 dvd's 10cases x 100 dvd's each for 100euros, what DVD back up cost? 10euros for 100dvd's.
were is the high cost? if you find it let me know.
and to prove you that you don't know what you are saying, if a customer asks he's job.....
what i will say to him?
wait 3 years to restore it from the tape?

Ryu77 you are a hero mate.

@ZippyDSM
When the job is a 1000+pages book, with tif and eps files , with size from 50mb to 300mb or even more, well we rather burn 1 disc rather 11 dvdrs.
I have Postscripts more than 10gb's each that were never been back up, i was tranfering them from server to server every time that i wanted to change/do something something, with DB i must have free up more or less 5tb.
Dunno what you are saying but BD recorder has given back to us the money , just from the HDD space that we regain.

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umm your not listing.... hard drives are cheaper than BR, hot swapable you can load a HDD fil it up and archive it and ti will take up less space than BR of the same data size and tis all cheaper and faster than BR.....

Hell I have changed from DVD9s to HDDs because its cheaper.

Quote:

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Hell I have changed from DVD9s to HDDs because its cheaper.

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... yes hdd space is cheaper... unless you own a 360. Which, afterall... is what this article is (or was) about in the first place.

Zippy, whilst I agree to some extent that archiving on a HDD has it's purpose, I seriously doubt that the production studios will start supplying media on a HDD... Wouldn't you agree?

Also, at work the other day I noticed we were selling a packet of 5 Verbatim BD-R's for $30 (Australian)... So that's $6 each or $30 for 125GB. Already we are seeing a price point that is showing signs of becoming more cost efficient than a HDD and is even starting to rival blank DVD's.

One last point is to consider the space saving that archiving with BD-R's will offer. Soon enough we will see 50GB discs at a reasonable price point (there is even talk of quad layer). Imagine a spindle of 50 Dual Layer BD-R's, so that's 2500GB. Now imagine having the same memory capacity in HDD's. I will even give you the benefit of saying that we are using the smaller 2.5" HDD's (5 x 500GB). You will still need some type of enclosure to readily access the data on these drives. Either way the Blu-ray discs will be far more space efficient and readily accessed as opposed to having some type of hot swappable HDD set-up or having them in external enclosures.


nobrainer, once again you are quoting material that has nothing to do with Blu-ray. What does the rootkit EULA have to do with Blu-ray exactly?

Please remember, The Blu-ray Disc Association is not just Sony!

As of today the BDA has more than 250 members and supporters. There are currently 18 members that comprise the Board of Directors, these are Sony, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, Apple, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Mitsubishi Electric, Panasonic (Matsushita Electric), Sun Microsystems, TDK Corporation, Twentieth Century Fox, Disney and Warner Bros.

The rest of the 250+ is comprised of contributors and standard members etc.

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Zippy, whilst I agree to some extent that archiving on a HDD has it's purpose, I seriously doubt that the production studios will start supplying media on a HDD... Wouldn't you agree?

Also, at work the other day I noticed we were selling a packet of 5 Verbatim BD-R's for $30 (Australian)... So that's $6 each or $30 for 125GB. Already we are seeing a price point that is showing signs of becoming more cost efficient than a HDD and is even starting to rival blank DVD's.

One last point is to consider the space saving that archiving with BD-R's will offer. Soon enough we will see 50GB discs at a reasonable price point (there is even talk of quad layer). Imagine a spindle of 50 Dual Layer BD-R's, so that's 2500GB. Now imagine having the same memory capacity in HDD's. I will even give you the benefit of saying that we are using the smaller 2.5" HDD's (5 x 500GB). You will still need some type of enclosure to readily access the data on these drives. Either way the Blu-ray discs will be far more space efficient and readily accessed as opposed to having some type of hot swappable HDD set-up or having them in external enclosures.


nobrainer, once again you are quoting material that has nothing to do with Blu-ray. What does the rootkit EULA have to do with Blu-ray exactly?

Please remember, The Blu-ray Disc Association is not just Sony!

As of today the BDA has more than 250 members and supporters. There are currently 18 members that comprise the Board of Directors, these are Sony, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, Apple, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Mitsubishi Electric, Panasonic (Matsushita Electric), Sun Microsystems, TDK Corporation, Twentieth Century Fox, Disney and Warner Bros.

The rest of the 250+ is comprised of contributers and standard members etc.

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thats not new retail price tho...... discount close out on off or low brands do not count.

in 2 years a 1TB HDD will be 70$ and take up less space 20 50GB discs, price V cost V space BR is not there yet.
If you can get 10 50GB BR discs verbatim brand for 25$ then ya i would be better,its not better yet its going to be 5 years before we see thos prices the up side drives will be faster and cheaper in that time frame.

haha I love it when people start predicting the future to prove a point thats opinion-based at best.

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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thats not new retail price tho...... discount close out on off or low brands do not count.

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So, Verbatim is considered a low brand?

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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in 2 years a 1TB HDD will be 70$ and take up less space 20 50GB discs, price V cost V space BR is not there yet.
If you can get 10 50GB BR discs verbatim brand for 25$ then ya i would be better,its not better yet its going to be 5 years before we see thos prices the up side drives will be faster and cheaper in that time frame.

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Again, I would like to ask if you seriously think that the production studios will deliver media on HDD's?

Also, before the future is in downloadable content brigade hit this thread again, I would like to ask which ISP is providing a service with enough bandwidth to stream content in 1080p? I have ADSL2+ and I've peaked at about 1000Kbs. That's nowhere near enough bandwidth for the content found on Blu-ray discs, which can be anywhere from 15,000Kbs to 45,000Kbs. So either ISP's need a breakthrough in their technology or the advocates of downloadable content will need to start planning their entertainment schedule days in advance.

If I have a sudden desire to watch a new film, I can easily visit my local rental outlet and within a few minutes have a handful of DVD's/Blu-ray discs etc. Even the local Supermarket stocks movies.

Quote:

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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thats not new retail price tho...... discount close out on off or low brands do not count.

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So, Verbatim is considered a low brand?

Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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in 2 years a 1TB HDD will be 70$ and take up less space 20 50GB discs, price V cost V space BR is not there yet.
If you can get 10 50GB BR discs verbatim brand for 25$ then ya i would be better,its not better yet its going to be 5 years before we see thos prices the up side drives will be faster and cheaper in that time frame.

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Again, I would like to ask if you seriously think that the production studios will deliver media on HDD's?

Also, before the future is in downloadable content brigade hit this thread again, I would like to ask which ISP is providing a service with enough bandwidth to stream content in 1080p? I have ADSL2+ and I've peaked at about 1000Kbs. That's nowhere near enough bandwidth for the content found on Blu-ray discs, which can be anywhere from 15,000Kbs to 45,000Kbs. So either ISP's need a breakthrough in their technology or the advocates of downloadable content will need to start planning their entertainment schedule days in advance.

If I have a sudden desire to watch a new film, I can easily visit my local rental outlet and within a few minutes have a handful of DVD's/Blu-ray discs etc. Even the local Supermarket stocks movies.

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Verbatim is a high brand but close outs are not mainstream retail price and thats what most business would pay the going retail rate at volume discount, and I am talking about archiving not as a distribution meduim, for a valid distro meduim flash drives would have to be the size of a CD case or less and offer more space at a good price, I can see in 10 years a flash disc the size of a floppy holding 100GB and begin roughly 50$ give or take 20-30, at volume discount and with other advancements I can see flash drives being a valid option in physically distribution but by that time BR will probably have grown 50GB quadrupled in speed almost twice and half in price twice by twice(4X).

BR is on the road to faster,cheaper,better,stronger as a distro and archiving medium but for now its costly and will remain costly for at least 5 years.

Quote:

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...in 2 years a 1TB HDD will be 70$ and take up less space 20 50GB discs, price V cost V space BR is not there yet.

...I can see in 10 years a flash disc the size of a floppy holding 100GB and begin roughly 50$ give or take 20-30

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Zippy:

Do you do Tarot card readings too?

Quote:

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Quote:

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...in 2 years a 1TB HDD will be 70$ and take up less space 20 50GB discs, price V cost V space BR is not there yet.

...I can see in 10 years a flash disc the size of a floppy holding 100GB and begin roughly 50$ give or take 20-30

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Zippy:

Do you do Tarot card readings too?

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yes and i readz the cards wif mew tong*lick*

No really tech grows at a steady pace
look at these
http://www.buy.com/prod/edge-100gb-2-5-u.../201956013.html

http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Pro...&ci_sku=8539326

Now try and find a good middle ground to size and space in 5+ years should be able to get a 100GB flash drive the keychain size for under 100$, in 10 years they may be under 50, but I think BR has media distro sewn up for the next 7 years at least.

Originally posted by Hunt720:

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Quote:

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Hell I have changed from DVD9s to HDDs because its cheaper.

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... yes hdd space is cheaper... unless you own a 360. Which, afterall... is what this article is (or was) about in the first place.

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it was Hunt720 but ryu77 changed the topic direction into a pro-blu ray thread, read page 1. btw is it not possible just to hot swap the 360 hd?

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/661107#4015061

now its about blu-ray for backups which frankly is unbelievable, time is money and when it takes half the day to transfer 50gigs you ain't going to be doing much work now are you, which is why tape is used with hard drives for second choice!

will the 360 get a blu-ray drive, who cares other than the fud spreader that wants free advertising, but they will need a larger storage medium in the future, lets hope they go solid state and not Drm-Ray!

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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nobrainer, once again you are quoting material that has nothing to do with Blu-ray. What does the rootkit EULA have to do with Blu-ray exactly?

Please remember, The Blu-ray Disc Association is not just Sony!

As of today the BDA has more than 250 members and supporters. There are currently 18 members that comprise the Board of Directors, these are Sony, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, Samsung, Apple, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Mitsubishi Electric, Panasonic (Matsushita Electric), Sun Microsystems, TDK Corporation, Twentieth Century Fox, Disney and Warner Bros.

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why is sony always a part of anti-consumer?

the last thing the xbox needs is sony's propertarian DRM malware blu-ray.

oh btw this is sony drm at work for you!

Mass Effect DRM goes too far M.E. phone home (every ten days)

Originally posted by link:

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In a post on Bioware's forums, producer Derek French has confirmed that two of the biggest PC titles of the year - Will Wright's Spore and the Xbox 360 conversion of Mass Effect - will require ongoing, rolling 10-day activation over the internet.

"Mass Effect uses SecuROM and requires an online activation for the first time that you play it," French says. "After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run."

Just to re-iterate that point, you will need to re-activate your copy with the publisher every 10 days. Forever.

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secuROM is one of sony's anti-consumer draconian DRM measures now just imagine this drm on your blu-ray discs, 360, ps3 games and then think what happens when they turn off them DRM check servers? and if you think that wouldn't happen ask the sony Connect customers that got screwed over last year when sony shut off their drm servers and forced everyone to purchase their media again.

do anyone else see: screw you rom when i read sonys drm name?

And M$ customers who are facing exactly that in August when the music servers go offline.

To the nice guy with the HD camcorder. You may find that the open source world has the tools you need to edit your HD video content.

http://cinelerra.org/docs/cinelerra_cv_manual_en.html

A with all open source tools it's anti-drm from the outset. Apart from buying a couple of huge new HDD's you shouldn't need to upgrade any system made in the last 2-3 years.

nb.. have you looked at the dates of the comments in your register link?? something strange going on there.

Originally posted by varnull:

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And M$ customers who are facing exactly that in August when the music servers go offline.

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yep anti-consumer is just that but lets hope that the 360 doesn't get Sony'd

Sony'd definition click here

Originally posted by urban dictionary link:

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To be totally screwed over without warning.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by Hunt720:

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Quote:

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Hell I have changed from DVD9s to HDDs because its cheaper.

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... yes hdd space is cheaper... unless you own a 360. Which, afterall... is what this article is (or was) about in the first place.

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it was Hunt720 but ryu77 changed the topic direction into a pro-blu ray thread, read page 1. btw is it not possible just to hot swap the 360 hd?

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/661107#4015061

now its about blu-ray for backups which frankly is unbelievable, time is money and when it takes half the day to transfer 50gigs you ain't going to be doing much work now are you, which is why tape is used with hard drives for second choice!

will the 360 get a blu-ray drive, who cares other than the fud spreader that wants free advertising, but they will need a larger storage medium in the future, lets hope they go solid state and not Drm-Ray!

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Well. If you are so worried about people changing topics, maybe you should start your own forum thread instead of turning every news post with the word Blu-Ray into your own anti-Sony pride parade.

I figured out a way for you to not have the "evil corporations" attack you and restrict what you do... don't buy their stuff.

This would help everyone really:

1) it would help to not clutter the news artictles with your own paranoid propaganda and scare tactics which are loosely backed up by people on other sites who happen to share your opinion. (que unlimited amout of links in a response post to try and prove your point)

2)It would help those who are actually proactive about working AROUND these DRM issues discuss how to go about it without having to read "AHHH SONY!!" every 2 posts.

The way I see it, if you are so frightened by the DRM/Rootkits/BDA etc. then you can either not buy their product to feel safer... or maybe add something to a community of people who have already found ways around some of these issues.

Your (favorite) DVD's had the same issues at first. You seem to know a lot about the format and so I'm sure you are aware that some proactive people developed ways around their restrictions that you and I both benefit from today. Maybe instead of freaking out, you could help with it.

Ahh.. sony'd.. same as "the surprise tupperware party".. go on.. google it.. I dare ya ;)

note:: I don't buy any drm filled shit. They fill it with drm.. I pirate it instead. Same goes for the broadcasters catch up services that are full of drm.. I pay for the service.. I pay to have access to the catchup service. Because I run open source drm free systems I am excluded.. Tough Luck.. I pirate instead.

DRM causes piracy. People who would be happy to use services and systems perfectly legally are forced into doing shady things by restrictive behaviour and other seriously dodgy practices foisted on them by greedy corporations.

Maybe you like being treated like an "Arkansas mudpool sandwich".. But I don't.

@ ZippyDSM
about HDD backup, I already have many HDD's, SCSI, and IDE sitting there with no use.
Your idea dosent work
i already have IDE and SCSI disks that i dont know what to do with them, We renewed our PC's and MAC's and...no ide anymore.
To backup works to this over worked HDD is not an option.
But guess what? Both PC's and G5 Mac's can still read even CD's.

and ZippyDSM and nobrainer, i still havent got an answer to my question.
what was the DVD recording cost back at 2001?
Cause to what BD offers today compared to DVD back then, BD is way cheaper.

Originally posted by SDF_GR:

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@ ZippyDSM
about HDD backup, I already have many HDD's, SCSI, and IDE sitting there with no use.
Your idea dosent work
i already have IDE and SCSI disks that i dont know what to do with them, We renewed our PC's and MAC's and...no ide anymore.
To backup works to this over worked HDD is not an option.
But guess what? Both PC's and G5 Mac's can still read even CD's.

and ZippyDSM and nobrainer, i still havent got an answer to my question.
what was the DVD recording cost back at 2001?
Cause to what BD offers today compared to DVD back then, BD is way cheaper.

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its called a caddy backup system, and many small companies that don't require server tape backup, use this or even a usb hd, it depends on the type size of the business and size of work/database ect. many very small family run businesses use cd's and dvd's but do they actually "know" how to back up and protect their data, i've seen many ppl foolish enough not to bother and it's very devastating to a company when the **** hits the fan. Now you even have to option to backup via your net connection for a very reasonable cost and if they screw your data you are covered by their insurance for any losses.

and how much was a 5 1/4 floppy when they came out, its not relevant, what is, is current price of blu-ray and its not cheap enough by a long shot, then you have the appalling read write speeds which is utterly useless to any company as time is money, and waiting 2 weeks to bakup even a small server or half a day to transfer a 30gig file is laughable.