Toshiba set to launch "Blu-ray killer" DVD technology

So its like a more advance up-scale dvd player? Maybe since Toshiba lost the format war they want to take down Blu-ray a different way, and old way. Yet i dont think it will provide true-HD like how a Blu-ray player does it.

What a great way to keep your existing DVD collection and still transition to a HD format.

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What a great way to keep your existing DVD collection and still transition to a HD format.

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Like they say, "The opera ain't over till the fat lady sings"

Toshiba is on the way to another failure.
They failed with a media as powerful as BD, with players cheaper than DVD's,movies cheap as the DVD's.

Now that the BD hardware is dropping, the FULL HDTV's dropping too, BD having P2.0 and most of the staff that HD-DVD had and BD being still unlocked.....They expect that with an inferior media/format than HD-DVD and more expensive , to beat BD? wtf?

+ HD-DVD was supported by universal, paramount, MS/360. who TF will support this format??

and at the bottom of this....
who will trust them now??? more than one million people saw there money fly away when WB said BD only, are they gonna trust them again?

It looks like a Titan size failure.

It would be interesting to see how they implement Super-Resolution technology. However, there may be limitations to this:

When Super Resolution Does Not Work

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Note that super-resolution cannot always provide very good results.

If you've already read how super-resolution works, you know that it uses subpixel accurate motion compensation to find similar areas in neighbor frames in order to intelligenlty merge them combining the details. There are cases when this can't be done successfully or cannot bring new details.

Stills

First of all, if an object doesn't move or change at all, if it's identical in several frames, then there's no additional information to extract. The quality will be as of simple spatial upsize.

Very strong motion or change

Opposite extreme is very fast motion or change. If an object moves too fast, it's difficult to track its motion, and often it becomes blurred due to two reasons. One reason is motion blur - when camera's exposure is set so that object moves a notable distance during shooting of one frame. The other reason is compression. If the video is compressed with a method that uses delta-frames (like MPEG1-2-4, WMV and many others), strong motion creates a lot of differences between frames so the codec quantizes data stronger to fit into required bitrate, so more details are lost on the way.

Just too strong compression

If your video is compressed to a low bitrate, in many cases this is very bad for super-resolution. There are two types of lossy video codecs: those that use delta-frames and those that use only key-frames.

If the video is compressed strongly by a key-frame-only codec like MJPEG (DV is also such codec, but DV video always has high enough bitrate), then each frame is compressed independently and a lot of details are lost in each frame. This usually leads to an artefact called "blocking", you can see it in strongly compressed JPEG images. When an object moves in the video, the blocks don't move, so the object is changing a lot during this motion making it impossible to accurately track its motion and get some details. What you can get from other frames is their blocking artefacts, making picture even worse.

If the video is strongly compressed by a codec with delta-frames (most common codecs), then the codec performs motion compensation, gets the difference between frames and quantizes it losing all details and leaving only major differences. When we try to apply super-resolution, it performs similar motion compensation to use differences between frames and it finds almost no details, only gross changes that cannot be used to improve the frame.

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So is this a new format, like a return of a better HD-DVD? Or maybe the beginning of VMD, FVD, or possibly the futuristic UHDV? Anyways, whatever it is I can't wait to get it, because I was just about to buy a Panasonic DMP-BD50 when it hits Canada. I had a feeling Toshiba wasn't going to throw in the towel just yet.

The Capacity? What's the capacity?

sounds like this may be they way many ppl adopt the HI Def format without having to re-mortgage their homes.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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sounds like this may be they way many ppl adopt the HI Def format without having to re-mortgage their homes.

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Not again wish them luck because this is D.O.A before it even launched.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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Not again wish them luck because this is D.O.A before it even launched.

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I guess Toshiba was just about to drop HD-DVD since this is to be just as good as hd-dvd. What a joke. Will MS jump on the wagon again and help drag this down quick also? We need Toshiba around, there always has to be a looser. Might as well be them.

Toshiba FTW!!! Anyways this super HD war has been going on for far to long...it's about time Toshiba rose from the ashes of HD-DVD and finally do a "fatality" on Blu-Ray...who would pay $400 for a flashy nice looking (on a HD TV) DVD player?...Obviously tons of people...that don't have anything else on which throw their money in!...

Sony should give up already.............

I guess that Toshiba has too much money...It lost 1 Billion with the HD DVD...now this...what they need to do is launch a GAMING SYSTEM with this new "Blu-ray killing" DVD technology. and give the system away for FREE....then it might win......NOT

Originally posted by DSWarrior:

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Toshiba FTW!!! Anyways this super HD war has been going on for far to long...it's about time Toshiba rose from the ashes of HD-DVD and finally do a "fatality" on Blu-Ray...who would pay $400 for a flashy nice looking (on a HD TV) DVD player?...Obviously tons of people...that don't have anything else on which throw their money in!...

Sony should give up already.............

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this is a good idea now people's old dvds wouldn't look like crap on a HDTV
the only problem is is that they called it a "blu ray killer"

Well, i'm assuming the video quality looks like what your typical HD torrent looks like: Worse than a Blu-Ray, better than upscaled DVD. I'm also assuming it'll do upscaling thats at least as good as the PS3. I think the players should also play back a wide variety of media formats so that its got value beyond just purchased discs. I think this format only has a chance if it can compete successfully in two ways:

1) Price. It needs to be cheap. I think $200 would even be too much. They basically need to be selling for clearout HD-DVD Player prices of like $99.99-149.99. I think that over $200 will have people just putting the money aside for a Blu-Ray player. Not only that, but the media needs to be cheap. If the DVD sells for $14.99, this needs to be like $17.99 max.

2) Studio support is critical. If none of the big companies are putting out content its pointless to own one.

It's not a new video format therefore it doesn't need studio support, they're new super upscaling DVD players. If you agree that Toshiba's HD-DVD players produce excelent results upscaling DVDs, rest asure that these new DVD players will produce even better results. Also prices for these players will be similar to current upscaling DVD players, much lower that the cheapest Blu-ray player.

Toshiba's Super Upconversion uses Cell's processors to produce in real-time a 960p true HD image (1920x960). This has been verified and witness by attendants of Toshiba's presentations since late 2007, experts have agreed that the results are outstanding as the resulting image is indeed HD, with no presence of video artefacts.

Toshiba was developing this technology before HD-DVD's demise, it will be implemented in the next line of DVD players and TV sets, and it's targeted for the vast mayority of DVD consumers, who can't afford or aren't willing to switch to Blu-ray, as well for those who preffer other sources such as Digital Downloads, VOD and TV signals.

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Originally posted by NexGen76:

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Not again wish them luck because this is D.O.A before it even launched.

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Maybe not. as my assistant Carmen says "People want Good and Cheap"

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blah blah blah... lets face it.. HD is dead in the water. It's too expensive in a world increasingly energy and money conscious.

(apparently that's the right spelling??)

I agree, as consumers are required to invest a lot of money in getting a new Blu-ray player, a new HDTV set and a new HT sound system in order to view Blu-ray movies, which of course you have to repurchase.

In the other hand consumers can choose to buy a super upconversion DVD player, yet aren't required to purchase a new TV set and HT sound system in order to view DVD movies you already own, they can use their current CRT TV sets and HT systems, with the knowledge that these new super upconversion DVD players, will be ready to enhance your viewing experience, if you choose to buy a new TV set.

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Originally posted by DSWarrior:

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Toshiba FTW!!! Anyways this super HD war has been going on for far to long...it's about time Toshiba rose from the ashes of HD-DVD and finally do a "fatality" on Blu-Ray...who would pay $400 for a flashy nice looking (on a HD TV) DVD player?...Obviously tons of people...that don't have anything else on which throw their money in!...

Sony should give up already.............

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HD war has ended long ago.
How can a person do a 'fatality' if they are already dead?
What about when DVD's came out? You think they started at around $100? You wish buddy.

Why should Sony give up? They won, they beat Toshiba in everything. Blu Ray, HDTV's, Laptops. If anything, Toshiba should just stop. They've become a real shitty company.

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well..this is definitely better then buying a blu ray player. although i am all for blu ray in the future, even as it is riddled with DRM, this seems nice.

however the storage space just won't cut it.

Good on ya Toshiba just when Sony & it's fanboys thought they could breathe a sigh of relief..lmao

Atleast they're still fighting back.

Oh, sweet irony!
This would be fantastic, if true.
The price-gouging Sony junta out on their butts.
Superior quality at a reasonable price.
Actual competition instead of monopolistic thuggery and bribery winning out.

What'll really going to happen?
The studios will cling to this format long enough to keep Blu Ray format around for two or three more years.
Toshiba goes under and Sony's left with its junk after an even newer, cheaper, non-disc format comes out and everybody waits for that.

That's where I am now. If Sony had lowered their prices after they killed HD-DVD, I'd have bought. Instead, they gouged. So I'm never buying. I thought I would, since I collect films and like high-end video, but no. They've left a sour taste.

I'm not saying this wouldn't be good.. but how does this really differ from HD-DVD? You still need to buy a new hardware for it.

Not a very smart move from Toshiba..

Originally posted by itago:

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I'm not saying this wouldn't be good.. but how does this really differ from HD-DVD? You still need to buy a new hardware for it.

Not a very smart move from Toshiba..

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Super Resolution Technology:

> No 1080p/24 fps unchanged from source to display
> No Dolby Digital Plus
> No Dolby True HD
> No DTS HD High Resolution
> No DTS HD Master Audio
> No Uncompressed Audio
> No HDi features (HD DVD)
> No web-enabled features (HD DVD)
> No BD Profile 1.1 features (BD)
> No BD-Live 2.0 features (BD)
> No DiVX HD support
> No AVCHD support - essential for my new Canon HF100 HD videocam

Sorry. Not interested.

I'll keep my HD DVD and BD players and discs.

Originally posted by error5:

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Super Resolution Technology:
Sorry. Not interested.
I'll keep my HD DVD and BD players and discs.

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Originally posted by mspurloc:

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It remains to be seen if they'll even adopt BR. So far, they seem totally unimpressed and who can blame them?

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Sales of high definition Blu-ray DVD recorders are zooming up in Japan as consumers take to the new generation of home movie entertainment after the end of a bitter format war.

Last month the more expensive Blu-ray recorders topped the old generation recorders in the value of sales for the first time, with around a third of machines sold now carrying the new format, research firm BCN Ltd said in a statement.

"Full high-definition picture quality has become a main stream for big-screen TVs, and camcorders with higher picture quality are getting popular, too," said BCN chief analyst Shigehiro Tanaka.

"From the input of data to output, high definition is taking root in Japan."

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Have to agree with others here in that upscaling is definately the way forward. BR is just a waste of money as far as I'm concerned.

Originally posted by error5:

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Super Resolution Technology:

> No 1080p/24 fps unchanged from source to display
> No Dolby Digital Plus
> No Dolby True HD
> No DTS HD High Resolution
> No DTS HD Master Audio
> No Uncompressed Audio
> No HDi features (HD DVD)
> No web-enabled features (HD DVD)
> No BD Profile 1.1 features (BD)
> No BD-Live 2.0 features (BD)
> No DiVX HD support
> No AVCHD support - essential for my new Canon HF100 HD videocam

Sorry. Not interested.

I'll keep my HD DVD and BD players and discs.

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1) citing toshiba sources
- but they don't actually name the sources anywhere so it's a rumour for now
2) "new" enhanced dvd players
- in other words we are not talking about a new media format here - we are simply talking about a standard dvd upscaler that may be better than any upscaler that has gone before it

can an upscaler ( and there is no doubt that toshiba has some mighty fine models )upscale a standard 4.7 or 9 GB dvd disc to ever compete with a 50 Gb blu ray disc ?

if it can as they claim in this article kill blu ray then why did they even bother with HD-DVD in the first place

Toshiba has 2 problems as far as I can see ( even though I believe they make excellent products )

1) They now have the reputaion of the betamax of the 21st Century after pulling the plug on HD-DVD
2) They risk alienating a large section of their consumer base ( HD-DVD owners ) if they now begin to release new different technology machines which will not be compatible with HD-DVD.

maybe what they're really talking about is deep colour enhancement - Toshiba always had a hard-on about that and it was incorporated in upper end HD-DVD players like the EP-35 and XE-1 : only problem is - no media has ever been produced with deep colout enhancement to take advantage of the technology except home made movies on HD camcorders.

Originally posted by iluvendo:

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1) No need to get gouged on BD at >$35/disc

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considering most people with a hdtv that havent bought into blu-ray already have a upconverter a $200 player seems like a really dumb idea. This junk has failed before it even came out.

what a waste of time and money even more than hd-dvd and that was a complete bust, maybe if they include a free cable,50 movies a applogy for sucking so much then it will be kinda worth it...not really though.

pretty much if you know where to look you can find good deals. the problem is that most people are to lazy to do any research to find them. I know that granted that the majority of people on this forum or other forums know to do research before doing anything that is why we are here. I personally do not pay over 25.00 for any blu ray title. Most of them that I get are 15-20 and with free shipping. I may not get it the same day that it is released but as long as you have patience you can find things. When the National Treasure 2 (2 disc dvd edition) was released I saw that it was priced higher then the blu-ray version. People just need to look.

Originally posted by juankerr:

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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1) No need to get gouged on BD at >$35/disc

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You're a fool if you're still paying $35 for a BluRay movie

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True, But I would never pay that, but some would and do


And But you did not address No DRM.




BluRay Sales are everywhere - if you know where to look

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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1) No need to get gouged on BD at >$35/disc

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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2) No need to replace library of discs

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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3) No need for DRM

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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2) No need to replace library of discs

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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3) No need for DRM

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Perhaps Toshiba is embracing HD-VMD Discs as a replacement for the HD-DVD

LINK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versatile_Multilayer_Disc

Originally posted by juankerr:

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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2) No need to replace library of discs

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I don't have a large library of regular DVD's.

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But the rest of us do. Your situation may be best suited for the niche HD market



The few regular DVD's that I have are handled very well by my Toshiiba HD-XA2.

When I buy new releases I buy the high def version. My collection now consists mostly of HD DVD and BD titles.

Originally posted by iluvendo:

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3) No need for DRM

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So regular DVD's don't have DRM too???

DRM is such a non-issue right now. BluRay PC drives are still quite expensive, not to mention the blank media. Besides, as long as the guys at Slysoft are doing their job, what do you have to worry about?

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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BD DRM comments please ?

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Originally posted by error5:

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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BD DRM comments please ?

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I have 2 words for you:

SLY

SOFT

Slysoft hacks Blu-ray's latest copy protection

SlySoft's latest AnyDVD HD release strips BD+ from Blu-ray Discs

SlySoft stays one step ahead of AACS

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/668954/4069982

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how can 480i upscaling even compare to true uncompressed 1080p bluray image i can't wait to see if they can get high res pop that only hddvd and bluray where able to do. i know this never countout Toshiba can't wait see it in action i am looking forward to it.

It's the usual story: People complain about BD+. Some time later Slysoft comes up with an update and you see the latest Fox titles on torrent sites.

BD+ is ineffective and broken. Macrovision (the new owners of the BD+ patent) should realize this by now.

Originally posted by error5:

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/668954/4069982

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Quote:

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More of the same doom and gloom from nobrainer.

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While nobrainer may miss the mark on occassion, his chicken little cries do deserve merit. Sony comes out with a rook kit virus on our store bought cd's. NBC "inadvertantly" activates a broadcast flag on no recording for time shifting, calling it an accident. Then Microsoft's one day big plan is for all of use to repay for activation yearly of their then new OS. Control over the public in our bought and paid for entertainment is the plan of the multimedia industrial giants. Control in what we watch,control in how we watch it (ipod, home tv,etc),control in how long we have the ability to watch when we already paid for it, the list goes on endlessly.

Nobrainer is not crazy. He/she just cannot trust giant corporations, and for good reason. Most see nobrainer as ranting and raving. He/she maybe just the "nut" that wakes us to our senses, so that we quit believing the spin the corporations spill out.

The fact remains that BD+ has been broken in the past and any new updates will likely be broken in the future.

Right now it's a non-factor and is as effective as a knife in a gunfight.

BD+ is also not owned by sony anymore so its not the great evil it once was and I think the whole DRM live key setup will be avoided for the most part, since you can rip the BR film and re encode it to a BR disc..makes all thos millions spent seem moot eh?



As for a BR killer it has to be better and cheaper, I don't see anything beating BR for 5 years, and I can see it out pacing DVD as far as new stuff is sold in that time frame.

Woo! Let's take a technological step backward! Gimme a break! Going back to red lasers would be dumb. Im not disagreeing that sony is right to charge what they do for blu ray, but still a new dvd player just seems like a step in the wrong direction... :-/

Originally posted by heychuall:

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Woo! Let's take a technological step backward! Gimme a break! Going back to red lasers would be dumb. Im not disagreeing that sony is right to charge what they do for blu ray, but still a new dvd player just seems like a step in the wrong direction... :-/

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This junk is funny.

My PS3 upconverts just fine.....oh....and it plays hi-def movies also....

Toshiba...WTF?!?!

Uh, i don't get it?! didn't we just see this episode? oh this is the new one where Toshiba looses! Wait yeah thats the one i saw last year! it ended in February!

Originally posted by PantherM:

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This junk is funny.

My PS3 upconverts just fine.....oh....and it plays hi-def movies also....

Toshiba...WTF?!?!

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Originally posted by juankerr :

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So regular DVD's don't have DRM too???

DRM is such a non-issue right now. BluRay PC drives are still quite expensive, not to mention the blank media. Besides, as long as the guys at Slysoft are doing their job, what do you have to worry about?

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The player cannot play the following discs:
• BD-REsIBD-Rs.
Bl)s with cartridge.
• l)VD-RWsIDVD-Rs of VR mode.
l)Vl)-RAMs.
• lID DVDs.
• DVD Audio discs.
• DATA CDs (CD-Rs/CD-RW5 other than music CD format).
• Cl)-ROMs recorded in PHOTO CD format.
Data part of CD-Extras.
• VCDs/Super VCDs.
• Ill) layer on Super Audio CDs.
Also, the player cannot play the following discs:
• A BD-ROMIDVD VIDEO with a different region code.
• A disc recorded in a color system other than NTSC. such as
PAL (this player conforms to the NTSC color system).
• A disc that has a non-standard shape (e.g.. card, heart).
• A disc with paper or stickers on it.
A disc that has the adhesive of cellophane tape or a sticker still
left on ii
Notes
• Notes about DVD+RWs/DVD+Rs. DVD-RWs!DVD.Rs. or CD-Rs/
CD’R%s
Some l)VD+RWs/l)VD+Rs. DVD-RWs/l)Vl)-Rs. or CD-Rs/
CD-RWs cannot be played on this player due to the recording
quality or physical condition of the disc, or the characteristics
of the recording device and authoring software.
The DVD disc will not play if it has not been correctly
finalized. For more inlormation. refer to the operating
instructions for the recording device. Note that some playback
functions may not work with sonic DVD+RWsIDVD+Rs. even
if they have been correctly finalized. In this case, view the disc
by normal playback.
• Music discs encoded with copyright protection technologies
This product is designed to playback discs that conform to the
Compact Disc (CD) standard. Recently. various music discs
encoded with copyright protection technologies are being
marketed by sonic record companies. Please be aware that
among those discs, there are some that do not conform to the
CD standard and may not be playable by this produci
• Note on DualDiscs
A DualDisc is a two sided disc product which mates DVI)
recorded material on one side with digital audio material on the
other side.
I lowever. since the audio material side does not conform to the
Compact Disc (CD) standard, playback on this product is not
guaranteed.
• Note about double-layer DVDs
The playback pictures and sound may he momentarily
interrupted when the layers switch.

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Quote:

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cinemeccanica
11-27-07, 03:04 PM
I made a Blu Ray disc with Scenarist 4.2 , I completed the disc image , manus and all. The disc is fully played smoothly by Panasonic BD10 player but not on my PS3. I burned it on BD-RE and inserted in my PS3, on the PS3 menu it's seen as BDMV but when it starts playing I have the following message:

Invalid disc

Can anyone explain why?
GodobeHD


11-27-07, 03:36 PM
No explanation. Just the way BD has always been in the last year and a half--- Samsung and Pany will play home made disks while Sony and PS3 won't.

It seems to me that there is no point in wasting our time trying to author homemade disks that will play in ALL BD players until some day Sony decides to support homemade disks.

Actually that is one of the advantages advacated by BD supporters that BD movies are going to be much harder to crack and reproduce, and therefore offer much better protection to manufactures and studios.

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double post....

nobrainer

all due respect even HDVD didnt have burners out, the format is new and costly, there should be a movement to BR blank media "friendly" players.

As profit hungry as all the hardware vendors are there will be a rush to blank support with the coming generations after all multi media friendly is a big part of their profits, what good is the player if it can't handle the disc from the camcorder and they are both the same format.

Sony tried to dominate the market and IMO failed to because they had to sell off so much to keep from being crushed by the waves, sure they have won the format war, but at what cost? they sold off cell they sold off BD+,they sold off a insurance firm that probably saved them some money that they will lose in time due to price hikes and what not, I mean all Sony has left is some of their Hardware(half of which suck) brands the PS3(which is not bad) and their film depo, their ties to BR have dwindled so much its kinda sad, if they keep treating the consumer like thieving children they will not only lose film sales but hardware to compentition, they should focus on illicit profit while leavign the consumer untouched, then sale in volume at a reasonable price, pricing gouging and region schemes will just cost them look at valve and the recent article here on piracy

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/14301.cfm

Consumer piracy is basically a myth they simply refuse to fill the needs of the consumer.

this has made me create a new zippyisim

Zippy fact?&myth!:
Consumer piracy is a myth, failed business schemes to increase profits widens the gap in consumers served, loss of consumers= loss of profit.:ZippyDSMlee

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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Home made Blu Ray discs and PS3
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-946056.html

Quote:

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cinemeccanica
11-27-07, 03:04 PM
I made a Blu Ray disc with Scenarist 4.2 , I completed the disc image , manus and all. The disc is fully played smoothly by Panasonic BD10 player but not on my PS3. I burned it on BD-RE and inserted in my PS3, on the PS3 menu it's seen as BDMV but when it starts playing I have the following message:

Invalid disc

Can anyone explain why?
GodobeHD


11-27-07, 03:36 PM
No explanation. Just the way BD has always been in the last year and a half--- Samsung and Pany will play home made disks while Sony and PS3 won't.

It seems to me that there is no point in wasting our time trying to author homemade disks that will play in ALL BD players until some day Sony decides to support homemade disks.

Actually that is one of the advantages advacated by BD supporters that BD movies are going to be much harder to crack and reproduce, and therefore offer much better protection to manufactures and studios.

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Originally posted by iluvendo:

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BD DRM comments please ?


http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_jump.cfm/668954/4069982

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Originally posted by error5:

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Super Resolution Technology:

> No 1080p/24 fps unchanged from source to display
> No Dolby Digital Plus
> No Dolby True HD
> No DTS HD High Resolution
> No DTS HD Master Audio
> No Uncompressed Audio
> No HDi features (HD DVD)
> No web-enabled features (HD DVD)
> No BD Profile 1.1 features (BD)
> No BD-Live 2.0 features (BD)
> No DiVX HD support
> No AVCHD support - essential for my new Canon HF100 HD videocam

Sorry. Not interested.

I'll keep my HD DVD and BD players and discs.

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You forgot


1) No need to get gouged on BD at >$35/disc
2) No need to replace library of discs
3) No need for DRM

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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nobrainer

all due respect even HDVD didnt have burners out, the format is new and costly, there should be a movement to BR blank media "friendly" players.

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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the DRM on the other hand is a bit iffy as sony's own BDP-S300 was made with the intention of not ever playing copies, home movies ect because of aacs authoring SPDC.

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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yet the links in my signature provide access to threads right here at Afterdawn, which is solid proof that I have helped many people create playable Blu-ray discs on their PS3.

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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what is concerning zippy is that as with the bdp300 as well as other sony blu-ray players is that the ability to read dvd-, bd-r, ect, unless authored by aacs has been deliberately made none functional.

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Quote:

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Sony Blu-ray players BDP-S1E, BDP-S300 and BDP-S500 Firmware Update - Updated on 9th May 2008

• Improves BD-Java compatibility to enhance interactivity with some BD-ROMs.

• Compatibility with the newly released BD-R/RE format (BDMV).

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compatible with a wide array of video formats, including BD-R/RE (BDMV and BDAV modes) ,DVD+R/+RW, DVD-R/-RW, CD, CD-R/RW (CD-DA format), and JPEG on DVD/CD recordable media

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hehehe.. sorry to be the proverbial spanner in the works.

Who in their right mind pays 30% over the odds to have the SONY badge on the top right corner of a bit of hardware, unless they already have a full $ony setup? It's no better sounding/looking than the competition and is a maintenance nightmare. They also have a "rip the consumer off" service attitude, frequently trying to restrict your statutory rights.

(I was being good up till now... sony hardware is shite. It uses in house components which are almost impossible to source when things go wrong)

Originally posted by varnull:

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Who in their right mind pays 30% over the odds to have the SONY badge on the top right corner of a bit of hardware, unless they already have a full $ony setup?

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Quote:

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It's not the player that needs to be hacked. I have been stripping Blu-ray movies apart (removing all DRM/copy protection) and re-authoring them for quite some time now. I also re-author these discs as region free. Every Blu-ray player that I have attempted to play these discs on have "BD-ROM" playability and have played back flawlessly every time.

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1TB Blu-Ray Compatible Optical Disc Announced

Call/Recall has announced it is developing a 1TB optical drive and disk, backwards compatible with Blu-ray, in partnership with with the Nichia Corporation of Japan.

Call/Recall began synthesizing 1TB materials for Nichia’s blue-violet laser diodes in December 2007, with first initial testing successfully completed in March 2008.

InPhase has just this year announced its revolutionary 300GB holographic disk and here is another optical format with more than three times the capacity.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/28/..._optical_drive/


This is great news...Soon you will be able to get a season series in HighDef on one disc.That just shows that Blu-Ray is going to be around for a long long time.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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1TB Blu-Ray Compatible Optical Disc Announced

Call/Recall has announced it is developing a 1TB optical drive and disk, backwards compatible with Blu-ray, in partnership with with the Nichia Corporation of Japan.

Call/Recall began synthesizing 1TB materials for Nichia’s blue-violet laser diodes in December 2007, with first initial testing successfully completed in March 2008.

InPhase has just this year announced its revolutionary 300GB holographic disk and here is another optical format with more than three times the capacity.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/28/..._optical_drive/


This is great news...Soon you will be able to get a season series in HighDef on one disc.That just shows that Blu-Ray is going to be around for a long long time.

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Quote:

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This is great news...Soon you will be able to get a season series in HighDef on one disc.That just shows that Blu-Ray is going to be around for a long long time.

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Originally posted by varnull:

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I give these blu disks 3 years until they are as extinct as the minidisk...

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Quote:

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I will enjoy watching you fizzle out within 12 months.. idiots.

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Originally posted by varnull:

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so why only 3 30 minute episodes on each?

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Originally posted by Ryu77:

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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Home made Blu Ray discs and PS3
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-946056.html

Quote:

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cinemeccanica
11-27-07, 03:04 PM
I made a Blu Ray disc with Scenarist 4.2 , I completed the disc image , manus and all. The disc is fully played smoothly by Panasonic BD10 player but not on my PS3. I burned it on BD-RE and inserted in my PS3, on the PS3 menu it's seen as BDMV but when it starts playing I have the following message:

Invalid disc

Can anyone explain why?
GodobeHD


11-27-07, 03:36 PM
No explanation. Just the way BD has always been in the last year and a half--- Samsung and Pany will play home made disks while Sony and PS3 won't.

It seems to me that there is no point in wasting our time trying to author homemade disks that will play in ALL BD players until some day Sony decides to support homemade disks.

Actually that is one of the advantages advacated by BD supporters that BD movies are going to be much harder to crack and reproduce, and therefore offer much better protection to manufactures and studios.

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You quote from an obscure thread with no evidence that these people actually know what they are talking about, yet the links in my signature provide access to threads right here at Afterdawn, which is solid proof that I have helped many people create playable Blu-ray discs on their PS3.

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Originally posted by juankerr:

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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the DRM on the other hand is a bit iffy as sony's own BDP-S300 was made with the intention of not ever playing copies, home movies ect because of aacs authoring SPDC.

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nobrainer: Things have changed and updates to the players and authoring/burning software have been made.

For example - BDMV discs authored using DVDIt Pro HD and burned on BD-R or BD-RE can now be played on the S300 and the PS3 (with updated firmware of course) even without AACS:

DVDit Pro HD disc playback compatability list

The May 9th 2008 firmware updates on the Sony players have enabled BDMV compatibility and BD-R/RE disc playback.

Originally posted by Ryu77:

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yet the links in my signature provide access to threads right here at Afterdawn, which is solid proof that I have helped many people create playable Blu-ray discs on their PS3.

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Bingo. To reiterate, BD+ (and AACS for that matter) is broken, ineffective, and a non-factor at this time. You can complain about it and whine about it all you want. Me? - I just trust the guys at Slysoft.

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Originally posted by juankerr:

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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what is concerning zippy is that as with the bdp300 as well as other sony blu-ray players is that the ability to read dvd-, bd-r, ect, unless authored by aacs has been deliberately made none functional.

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See my link above regarding the new update to the Sony players.

http://www.sony-asia.com/support/announc...site=hp_en_AP_i

Quote:

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Sony Blu-ray players BDP-S1E, BDP-S300 and BDP-S500 Firmware Update - Updated on 9th May 2008

• Improves BD-Java compatibility to enhance interactivity with some BD-ROMs.

• Compatibility with the newly released BD-R/RE format (BDMV).

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The upcoming Sony models are compatible out of the box.

http://www.agoraquest.com/article.php?si...order=0&thold=0

Quote:

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compatible with a wide array of video formats, including BD-R/RE (BDMV and BDAV modes) ,DVD+R/+RW, DVD-R/-RW, CD, CD-R/RW (CD-DA format), and JPEG on DVD/CD recordable media

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@ oner

as you can see the information i linked was taken directly from the official sony blu-ray player model page with the downloaded manual and i can't see how me linking to sony stating that their own player does not support certain media types is disinformation.

my point is that if Toshiba can produce a product that is not having propertarian DRM controlled by the MPAA it stands a great chance with savy consumers and would be my choice and recommendation to anyone wanting to jump into the Hi-Def format, it will also be much cheaper that the blu laser offering which again is better for the consumers wanting to get into the hi-def without having to re-mortgage their homes but as yet there is no prices quoted so we will have to w8 and see but expect these players to be at least half the current price of the blu-ray.

What is also know is that it is illegal to circumvent BD+, AACS, region coding,ect.

Originally posted by myself:

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go : http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/model-documents.pl?mdl=BDPS300

click on the "Operating Instructions" and read the PDF. scroll down to page 6 and read "Examples Of Discs The Player Cannot Play" basically unless you get your dvd authored by aacs it will not play, nor will BD+ media and this is not the only blu-ray player that blocks media.

Originally posted by esupport.sony.com/US:

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The player cannot play the following discs:
• BD-REsIBD-Rs.
Bl)s with cartridge.
• l)VD-RWsIDVD-Rs of VR mode.
l)Vl)-RAMs.
• lID DVDs.
• DVD Audio discs.
• DATA CDs (CD-Rs/CD-RW5 other than music CD format).
• Cl)-ROMs recorded in PHOTO CD format.
Data part of CD-Extras.
• VCDs/Super VCDs.
• Ill) layer on Super Audio CDs.
Also, the player cannot play the following discs:
• A BD-ROMIDVD VIDEO with a different region code.
• A disc recorded in a color system other than NTSC. such as
PAL (this player conforms to the NTSC color system).
• A disc that has a non-standard shape (e.g.. card, heart).
• A disc with paper or stickers on it.
A disc that has the adhesive of cellophane tape or a sticker still
left on ii
Notes
• Notes about DVD+RWs/DVD+Rs. DVD-RWs!DVD.Rs. or CD-Rs/
CD’R%s
Some l)VD+RWs/l)VD+Rs. DVD-RWs/l)Vl)-Rs. or CD-Rs/
CD-RWs cannot be played on this player due to the recording
quality or physical condition of the disc, or the characteristics
of the recording device and authoring software.
The DVD disc will not play if it has not been correctly
finalized. For more inlormation. refer to the operating
instructions for the recording device. Note that some playback
functions may not work with sonic DVD+RWsIDVD+Rs. even
if they have been correctly finalized. In this case, view the disc
by normal playback.
• Music discs encoded with copyright protection technologies
This product is designed to playback discs that conform to the
Compact Disc (CD) standard. Recently. various music discs
encoded with copyright protection technologies are being
marketed by sonic record companies. Please be aware that
among those discs, there are some that do not conform to the
CD standard and may not be playable by this produci
• Note on DualDiscs
A DualDisc is a two sided disc product which mates DVI)
recorded material on one side with digital audio material on the
other side.
I lowever. since the audio material side does not conform to the
Compact Disc (CD) standard, playback on this product is not
guaranteed.
• Note about double-layer DVDs
The playback pictures and sound may he momentarily
interrupted when the layers switch.

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This message has been edited since its posting. Latest edit was made on 31 May 2008 @ 11:02

Originally posted by varnull:

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I give these blu disks 3 years until they are as extinct as the minidisk...?

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Originally posted by nobrainer:

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i can't see how me linking to sony stating that their own player does not support certain media types is disinformation.

---

Quote:

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my point is that if Toshiba can produce a product that is not having propertarian DRM controlled by the MPAA

---

Quote:

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What is also know is that it is illegal to circumvent BD+, AACS, region coding,ect.

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The idea of blu-ray sounds great but all of the smaller "details" definitely make me wary.

There are too many small details that worry me. IE connecting online, needing updates to play discs/access features on 2.0, the feeling that I'm being watched and monitored 24/7. This points to blu-ray still being in early adopter status after all this time.

I have a feeling that you will never be able to buy a blu-ray player that doesn't require an online connection due to ever evolving drm. I know slysoft is great, but I have a sneaking suspicion that once a finalized BD player/profile is finally reached the hammer is going to come down in a way that we have never seen before. To the point where the final true blu-ray drm is changing so quickly combined with player updates that even slysoft can't keep up.

I’m not saying I will never buy a blu-ray player but all of these things seem totally unnecessary and most definitely not intended to benefit me the consumer. This new BD tech compared to dvd is leaps and bounds better in the A/V department. However the complexity of maintaining a BD player VS. an SD player is much more complicated and has/will discourage many consumers. When I can buy a high-def player of any kind that is fully functional out of the box (no or limited initial updates) and doesn't want to police what I’m doing I'll be the first in line.

These are the main reasons that current dvd technology combined with different forms of upconversion will hold strong for years to come.

The 1T BR disc wont be seen in the consumer market under 50 a disc for 6+ years nd in the time frame a HDD will be cheaper...



BR is now being shaped by market demand instead of sonys quirky interests sp BR is improving across the board, the more vendors to build players the more features we will see and better prices.

I don't understand why there even a issue with BD+ or any copy protection as they haven't had any effects on any players.Like i said there was two BD+ disc(The Day After Tomorrow& Fantastic Four:Rise Of The Silver) that had issue which was fixed within a week of its release with firmware updates.There are over 100 BD+ disc that has been released since then with no issue what so ever.



What don't make any sense is DVD,BD,& HD-DVD had copy protection why is it a issue now when BD has been clearly the choice of customers.All these company's back copy protection live with it, it isn't going anywhere so get over it or don't buy the product you have a choice as a customer.

Originally posted by NexGen76:

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I don't understand why there even a issue with BD+ or any copy protection as they haven't had any effects on any players.Like i said there was two BD+ disc(The Day After Tomorrow& Fantastic Four:Rise Of The Silver) that had issue which was fixed within a week of its release with firmware updates.There are over 100 BD+ disc that has been released since then with no issue what so ever.



What don't make any sense is DVD,BD,& HD-DVD had copy protection why is it a issue now when BD has been clearly the choice of customers.All these company's back copy protection live with it, it isn't going anywhere so get over it or don't buy the product you have a choice as a customer.

---

First and foremost blu-ray is still a work in progress, it’s not finalized and there is no indication of if or when it will be. The difference inherent to the only hd format left (blu-ray) is that the player itself plays an active roll in checking and possibly implementing new/changing drm. Not only are the discs encrypted but the players can be updated to coincide with new drm. It simply creates too many unknowns and widens the possibility for future playback issues.

When a dvd is released the encryption on the disc can not change and gives company's like slysoft and fentago time to work with any changes made since previous releases. With blu-ray the player has an active roll in checking drm and in a sense gives the studios a second chance to detect any unauthorized "pirated discs" from playing and the ability to really stick it to you by bricking your player.

When you buy an sd dvd player it comes as is and might have optional firmware updates to fix possible glitches or problems. the only encryption is on the dvd itself. Now that standard dvd encryption is effectively useless the BDA is going overboard bringing drm to new heights and involving the player in the process. These new tactics only raise the chances for something to go wrong.

The more I think about these things the less enthusiastic I am to drop a couple hundred on a new player and format that doesn't have a very clear future. People like me who take these things into consideration are much more enthusiastic about super-upconversion. However the vast majority of consumers don't know or care to know how things work and are waiting for price drops. The future of blu-ray really depends on how quickly prices come down. Toshibas so called "blu-ray killer" if successful will most likely help with blu-ray adoption by forcing prices down.

First of all, Blu-ray is NOT the choice of customers, it doesn't matter how many times people says this, it doesn't change the indeniable fact that more than 95% of consumers worldwide are preferring DVD, people are buying more upscaled DVD players and much more DVD movies, than BD players and movies. Blu-ray was imposed by the BDA and movie studios, regardles that a large percentage of early adopters preferred HD-DVD.

Toshiba was forced to abandon HD-DVD, yet they had developed this new super upconversion technology much prior to that, but it doesn't mean they should abandon that as well, when they are addressing that very large percentage of consumers that are preferring DVD, in providing better equipment to improve their viewing experience.

Does this justify desregarding what Toshiba is doing? NO. Why should they settle for the tuna when they go after the big shark? Is there something wrong with that? ABSOLUTELY NOT. I'm sure that the large population of consumers that are preffering DVD, will welcome these new super upconversion DVD players.

Originally posted by ematrix:

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First of all, Blu-ray is NOT the choice of customers, it doesn't matter how many times people says this, it doesn't change the indeniable fact that more than 95% of consumers worldwide are preferring DVD, people are buying more upscaled DVD players and much more DVD movies, than BD players and movies. Blu-ray was imposed by the BDA and movie studios, regardles that a large percentage of early adopters preferred HD-DVD.

Toshiba was forced to abandon HD-DVD, yet they had developed this new super upconversion technology much prior to that, but it doesn't mean they should abandon that as well, when they are addressing that very large percentage of consumers that are preferring DVD, in providing better equipment to improve their viewing experience.

Does this justify desregarding what Toshiba is doing? NO. Why should they settle for the tuna when they go after the big shark? Is there something wrong with that? ABSOLUTELY NOT. I'm sure that the large population of consumers that are preffering DVD, will welcome these new super upconversion DVD players.

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Originally posted by redux79:

---

First and foremost blu-ray is still a work in progress, it’s not finalized and there is no indication of if or when it will be. The difference inherent to the only hd format left (blu-ray) is that the player itself plays an active roll in checking and possibly implementing new/changing drm. Not only are the discs encrypted but the players can be updated to coincide with new drm. It simply creates too many unknowns and widens the possibility for future playback issues.

When a dvd is released the encryption on the disc can not change and gives company's like slysoft and fentago time to work with any changes made since previous releases. With blu-ray the player has an active roll in checking drm and in a sense gives the studios a second chance to detect any unauthorized "pirated discs" from playing and the ability to really stick it to you by bricking your player.

---

Your prior statement was "What don't make any sense is DVD,BD,& HD-DVD had copy protection why is it a issue now when BD has been clearly the choice of customers." and when you make such a claim in context against DVD, is when such statement is totally flawed, as sales figures show that people still are buying far more DVD movies and upscaling DVD players than BD movies and players.

I said "Toshiba was forced to abandon HD-DVD", not that HD-DVD was forced to abandon... What do you say when you have no choice but to do something against your own wishes? YOU WERE FORCED TO DO SO!

I'm not going to repeat what nobrainer and redux79 have expressed, but they do make valid statements. We are facing times where goverments (such as France and England) and private associations (fill the blanks on your most disliked __AA) wants to police, control and monitor everything we do, at expenses of our consumer and private rights, and that's worth worrying about, but not to state that we live in fear too much.

It looks more like BD early adopters are the ones living in fear too much, when they're so eager to desregard a new super upconversion DVD player, that could appeal more to that large percentage of consumers that are preferring DVD, or that in a couple of years could arrise a new format, that could be much more preferred by consumers worldwide, rather than embrasing Blu-ray, reducing its chances of succesfully becaming mainstream.

Originally posted by ematrix:

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It looks more like BD early adopters are the ones living in fear too much, when they're so eager to desregard a new super upconversion DVD player, that could appeal more to that large percentage of consumers that are preferring DVD, or that in a couple of years could arrise a new format, that could be much more preferred by consumers worldwide, rather than embrasing Blu-ray, reducing its chances of succesfully becaming mainstream.

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Originally posted by ematrix:

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Your prior statement was "What don't make any sense is DVD,BD,& HD-DVD had copy protection why is it a issue now when BD has been clearly the choice of customers." and when you make such a claim in context against DVD, is when such statement is totally flawed, as sales figures show that people still are buying far more DVD movies and upscaling DVD players than BD movies and players.

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Originally posted by ematrix:

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I said "Toshiba was forced to abandon HD-DVD", not that HD-DVD was forced to abandon... What do you say when you have no choice but to do something against your own wishes? YOU WERE FORCED TO DO SO!

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Originally posted by ematrix:

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It looks more like BD early adopters are the ones living in fear too much, when they're so eager to desregard a new super upconversion DVD player, that could appeal more to that large percentage of consumers that are preferring DVD, or that in a couple of years could arrise a new format, that could be much more preferred by consumers worldwide, rather than embrasing Blu-ray, reducing its chances of succesfully becaming mainstream.

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No one have mentioned anything about the Audio that a BD Disc can offer and a BD player can output, and the audio that DVD's with this toshiba upscalers will offer.

BD is out for less than 2years and movie prices is under 30euros when DVD's after 10 years costs around 20 with lower Audio+Video quality, and a fully scratchable discs.

I went today to mediamarkt and all the new BD releases were at 29.95euros, when DVD's were at 19.95E the New releases and at 10,95E the older once.
So i dont think that BD can get lower than that.

First you don't need to repurchase movies you already own on DVD. You may say that nobody is forcing you to repurchase movies on BD, but then what is the point in getting a BD player, if you're not going to readquire movies on BD that you already have in DVD.

Also it's not mandatory to upgrade your equipment (TV set, HT sound system) in order to view DVD movies. You can choose to upgrade for a LCD/Plasma screen and super upconversion DVD player to improve picture into HD standarts... may be artificial, but it sure looks damn cool, as showed on Toshiba's presentation months ago.

The fact remains that the vast mayority of legit consumers don't care about Blu-ray, they are very content with DVD and are reluctant to such ordeal, also consider that legit consumers represent 1/10 of the DVD's user population, since the rest gets pirate copies or P2P downloads, most of the time of movies just released in movie theaters with inferior quality than DVD... then BD's market penetration is practically non-existent.

If you believe this isn't enough, then you should have nothing to worry about, you can stick with BD while the rest of us keep with DVD, and welcome Toshiba's super upconversion DVD, at least until something much better than BD comes along, certanly any new format that doesn't involve optical discs will be a much better option and a new revolution in home video entertaiment, and that will be worth spending our money.

Don't blind yourself just to defend BD, from the undeniable fact that Hollywood has been producing a lot of new crappy movies, and releasing less blockbuster favorite movies and TV shows on DVD in the past years, that certanly can account for that 4% decline in DVD movie sales last year, as it was forecasted by analysts back at late 2005... frankly it could have been worse.

In the contrary all those big blockbuster favorite movies and TV shows, where released at least 3-4 years ago, when DVD movie sales where at their highest. But if DVD sales have declined such low percentage, regardless of less appealing titles to buy, it could mean that more consumers are buying than before, but everybody has been more selective in which titles are worth adquiring.

The real reason why movie studios are pushing for BD, rather than actually making good movies worth watching and buying, is because they want to profit from selling all those 80's and 90's big blockbuster favorites AGAIN!

If you think that i shouldn't compare DVD to Blu-Ray when DVD has a mass market, and Blu-Ray is still on its early stages, then you shouldn't made the claim that BD is the preferred choice of costumers when it's not, specially in context against DVD.

It's absurd to say that Blu-ray is better than HD-DVD, the fact is that Blu-ray beat HD-DVD thanks mainly to the PS3 rootkit, and at the end to exclusive movie studio support, not because it was superior. The fact is that HD-DVD had full specs when Blu-ray was still on Profile 1.0, and BD players with Profile 2.0 (which will match HD-DVD's full specs) are just to be released in the following months... so when was Blu-ray superior in order to beat HD-DVD?

It's kind of ironic... months ago Sony sold their Cell's factory to Toshiba, but rather than providing Sony of processors for the PS3, they will use them for their new super upconversion DVD players and TV sets (so now Sony depends of IBM for its processors needs)

Originally posted by ematrix:

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Toshiba's Super Upconversion uses Cell's processors to produce in real-time a 960p true HD image (1920x960).

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Quote:

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I give these blu disks 3 years until they are as extinct as the minidisk...

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Originally posted by eatsushi:

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It would be interesting to see how they implement Super-Resolution technology.

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i hope you wont hang me for saying this but i just love these discussions..amazing what you can learn from the comments people make.. just wanted to thank everyone :)

I just hope that this toshiba's offering will be pro consumer, as with the phone home ability that fox has already stated that they will utilise with blu-ray, and laws like the new "Controversial intellectual property treaty being drafted in secret" becoming the norm thanks to the MPAA/RIAA i fear that even a home movie will get your door kicked in by the FBI and your home confiscated and yourself locked behind bars simply because you wanted to play a film or an mp3 on another bit of your equipment.

come on toshiba, lets get a pro consumer, none privacy violating, next step media player on the shelves without the need for constant tracking by the MPAA.

House passes bill that will let the RIAA take away your home for downloading music

add this to the fact that the RIAA thinks that doing what you want with your own content is stealing....

Sony BMG's chief anti-piracy lawyer: "Copying" music you own is "stealing"

Originally posted by hyper:

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Pariser replied, "When an individual makes a copy of a song for himself, I suppose we can say he stole a song." Making "a copy" of a purchased song is just "a nice way of saying 'steals just one copy'," she said.

---

Quote:

---

the BPI again said all the right things about format shifting, but we noted that the Association of Independent Music was making noises; apparently, the group wanted to get paid whenever music was transferred from a CD to a portable device.

---

Quote:

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The treaty, as outlined in the leaked document, would mandate authority for customs agents to examine portable devices from laptops to iPods for evidence of either P2P file sharing activity or copied content from media including CDs and DVDs that could constitute copyright infringement. They would then have the ability to seize such property without any judicial oversight, and even levy fines to "offenders."

---

If the DVD Forum gets its way, the "phone home" feature will not be limited to BluRay:

Behold - DVD 2.0 and Network Connectivity

Quote:

---

At the same meeting, according to a summary posted on the Forum Web site, the committee approved the formation of a new working group (dubbed WG-12) “to study and specify network applications and related network specification of DVD Forum formats, make recommendations for better interoperability and functionality of network-connected DVD Forum specified devices and content and communicate on relevant recommendations with other standard creation organizations.”

What that means in non-Forum legalese, I’m told by sources familiar with the plans, is that the new working group will look for ways to incorporate some of the same next-gen functionality developed for HD DVD into a DVD 2.0 format, including the HDi interactive layer and the advanced network connectivity.

One of the co-chairs of WG-12 is Microsoft, which played a major role in developing those capabilities for HD DVD (the other co-chair is Panasonic).

Toshiba and Microsoft are also working through the DVD Copy Control Assn., which oversees the CSS encryption format used on standard DVDs, to try to breathe new life into the old format.
Microsoft was behind a proposal to DVD-CCA—originally floated two years ago but revived in modified form late last year—to introduce “managed-copy” to standard DVDs, under which consumers would be able to copy their DVDs to a hard drive under carefully DRM’ed conditions, for streaming over a home network.

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Imagine a world where Blu-ray has totally won. There is no other player, no other disc format.
Thanks to profile 2.0 and its online updating feature it is impossible to view backups, only original BDs.
Now that there is no competition and all people are depending on this format - will the price for BD movies go up or down? Think of the gas prices.

Originally posted by peac3:

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Imagine a world where Blu-ray has totally won. There is no other player, no other disc format.
Thanks to profile 2.0 and its online updating feature it is impossible to view backups, only original BDs.
Now that there is no competition and all people are depending on this format - will the price for BD movies go up or down? Think of the gas prices.

---

Originally posted by peac3:

---

Imagine a world where Blu-ray has totally won. There is no other player, no other disc format.
Thanks to profile 2.0 and its online updating feature it is impossible to view backups, only original BDs.
Now that there is no competition and all people are depending on this format - will the price for BD movies go up or down? Think of the gas prices.

---

Why do threads like this always end up it total conflict? The bottom line is, more options for the consumer = lower prices for everything. I could spend an hour writing how I feel about BD+ and the like, but in all honesty, why? Been there, done that....100 times over. Toshiba's latest foray into the HD market may be futile, but hey, at least it gives us options. Until all this fuss is resolved, I will happily use my upscaling dvd player :)

@whoever decided to give nobrainer a vacation, what would you like for Christmas?

I'm with you here stang.. I'm past caring. I don't want this technology because I don't have any "phone home" crap in my house.. It's bad enough being spied on every time I leave the house.

Originally posted by varnull:

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I'm with you here stang.. I'm past caring. I don't want this technology because I don't have any "phone home" crap in my house.. It's bad enough being spied on every time I leave the house.

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Quote:

---

Originally posted by varnull:

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I'm with you here stang.. I'm past caring. I don't want this technology because I don't have any "phone home" crap in my house.. It's bad enough being spied on every time I leave the house.

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Don't plug the player into the net then :P

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Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by varnull:

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I'm with you here stang.. I'm past caring. I don't want this technology because I don't have any "phone home" crap in my house.. It's bad enough being spied on every time I leave the house.

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Don't plug the player into the net then :P

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Or better yet don't buy it.........

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Originally posted by svtstang:

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Toshiba's latest foray into the HD market may be futile, but hey, at least it gives us options.

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Originally posted by peac3:

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Now that there is no competition and all people are depending on this format - will the price for BD movies go up or down?

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Since you quoted me, please note I was not whining like many others in this thread. And no, DVD was the first in the evolutionary chain for disc based movies, and people accepted price then. If full length movies were released on CD, then yes there would have been a lot of crying.

If that was some crazy, I am on crack rhetorical question, I apologize.

Originally posted by nobrainer:

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I just hope that this Toshiba's offering will be pro consumer, as with the phone home ability that FOX has already stated that they will utilise with Blu-ray, and laws like the new "Controversial intellectual property treaty being drafted in secret" becoming the norm thanks to the MPAA/RIAA i fear that even a home movie will get your door kicked in by the FBI and your home confiscated and yourself locked behind bars simply because you wanted to play a film or an mp3 on another bit of your equipment.

And the phone home ability of Blu-ray is.............. thanks MPAA/RIAA for this proposed law, you really do care about letting the consumers have choice with their own media, its the YOU ARE GUILTY measure me thinks, i think i really will just stick with DVD and if Toshiba can offer something between the two formats without tracking our every move i can see it being the next format of media players. The MPAA should have never been allowed to dictate to us all hardware restrictions but this is the world of capitalism, and all we can do is boycott anti-consumer.

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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:

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So everyone should boycott BR because they are trying (and failing) to create a net enabled DRM for film?

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Originally posted by svtstang:

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Why do threads like this always end up it total conflict? The bottom line is, more options for the consumer = lower prices for everything. I could spend an hour writing how I feel about BD+ and the like, but in all honesty, why? Been there, done that....100 times over. Toshiba's latest foray into the HD market may be futile, but hey, at least it gives us options. Until all this fuss is resolved, I will happily use my upscaling dvd player :)

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Quote:

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People seem to forget that the moment you pay for an item, you own it, and they have no right to police you when using your purchased goods

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Hi Guys, I'm Jim and I live in Amsterdam, at the moment a BD player costs about 350 Euro on average which is $544 US and in my opinion that is the only reason people are not rushing out to buy one, I understand the companies need to recover the R+D costs but seriously !! The price has to drop to about 150 Euro before people start buying on mass.
To the other issues: BD does undoubtedly look better than DVD and as I own a 40 inch full HD TV I would of course like to make use of it’s full 1080P capabilities, however having borrowed a friends Pioneer BD player and having viewed the same film first on BD and then same title DVD on my Samsung 1080P up-scaling DVD player, I must say the difference did not seem to be 5 times sharper as most of the manufacturers claim at all, I would say BD looks about twice the resolution of DVD (to me) and is definitely a viewing improvement, but there is no way I would spend more than 150 Euro just for a slight improvement
Also I don’t want to run out and buy all the film’s I already own in mpeg2 format considering how much they cost. To the issue of DRM well that isn’t an issue since the encryption was cracked also as to the player checking on line? Does that mean you can only purchase a BD player if have internet? I think not! My prediction is that the prices will drop by 50% before the end of this year because if they don’t BD will go the same way as HD DVD and I just don’t see that happening. Remember they are already working on the next format before they sell you this one.

Originally posted by error5:

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Originally posted by svtstang:

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Toshiba's latest foray into the HD market may be futile, but hey, at least it gives us options.

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Just wondering here. When DVD was the only disc-based format available, were people complaining that they didn't have options?

Originally posted by peac3:

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Now that there is no competition and all people are depending on this format - will the price for BD movies go up or down?

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Similar question here. When DVD was the only option and had no competition - did prices on discs and players go up - or did they go down?

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Andrew, personally I have no interest in cracking DRM on movies, since I have a multiregional player that allows me, to play DVDs from different regions, and I'm a legit consumer (more than 1200 legally purchased DVD movies and TV shows on my collection) therefore I'm pointing my issues with DRM, even so I'm part of that small percentage, that actually supports the movie industry when buying their stuff.

We all agree that Regional Coding has been an niusance, and we insisted for years so that manufactures would release multiregional DVD players, so we could adquire and watch freely movies that we got from other regions, yet with Blu-ray players we're facing this same restriction all over again.

Granted there're several Blu-ray titles that are Region Free, but not all of them are, just as it happens with DVD titles. Since DVD's inception they have embedded some form of DRM, but not all has to do with protecting the discs from being copied, when some are intended to control us as well.

What I meant its that they have no right to police what you're doing with the equipment you purchased and own, which is the case of Blu-ray players. If they want to put copy-protect DRM on Blu-ray discs, like they have been doing with DVD discs, that's fine by me, but not when they put DRM restrictions on BD players, which makes them part of the control and monitoring scheme.

On the topic, if upscaling a DVD movie can improve viewing them, regardless that it's artificial and not native, and it may not provide the same results as actually having a HD source, but if it works and looks damn cool, then that's fine by me.

Jim, i completely agree with your impressions while comparing BD against DVD, that's why I'm waiting for the next revolution in home video entertaiment, which BD isn't; also some have to realize that not everybody lives in USA, in order to actually purchase BD movies and players at such prices. The reality is that most of us around the globe, have to pay at least US$600 for a BD player, and US$30 for a BD movie; and even if one should choose to import these stuff from the USA, you end up paying roughly the same that you would had locally, after adding the expenses of S&H and import taxes.

ematrix

copy protection is one thing the net enabled tracking DRM system is completely another thing, something like this dose not need to be put into place, mabye in 20 years when all devices are connected tot eh net through a wireles system and "media crimes" has is own devision in each local police branch....

But Zippy, they have never given up in the intent of releasing a DRM tracking system, like when they had the idea of embedding RID chips on discs for tracking, control and monitoring purposes (we never knew with centanty if they gave up on that) and now BD players, thanks to web connectivity, has the potencial of making it a reality. Also copy protection is not the only form of DRM.

Let's go to the simplest of all DRM, which is Regional Coding, which is part of their price fixing control scheme. If you're a legit consumer, you should have the freedom and right to get products (meaning the movies) from other places, when the ones offered to you locally aren't satisfying, or they have no intent of offering them at all, and certanly it was annoying that your DVD player, which you legally purchased and own, would not accept a disc because it didn't match your region, and now this situation repeats with BD players... just to give an example of my point.

Originally posted by ematrix:

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Let's go to the simplest of all DRM, which is Regional Coding, which is part of their price fixing control scheme.

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Quote:

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Originally posted by ematrix:

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Let's go to the simplest of all DRM, which is Regional Coding, which is part of their price fixing control scheme.

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Here's a website with info on region-free BluRay discs:

http://bluray.liesinc.net/

It's useful info if you're in the US and want to import from the EU or Asia, or if you're from the EU or Asia and you want to import from ther US. Notice that practically all Warner releases are region-free.

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Originally posted by blueroad:

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lol man seriously who would buy warners garbage..(wanted 2 use other word)

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Its amazes me how people on this site actually think there outlook on things reflect the views of millions of people.

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If these players can somehow add an upscaling engine more powerful then the ones in Toshiba's current HD DVD player lineup, the quality should be outstanding and worth looking into.

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Well, I think is fair that you should have a taste of what is being discussed here. I found on youtube a video of Toshiba's presentation at CEATEC months ago in regarding this new techonolgy; please take into consideration that this presentation was done much prior to HD-DVD's demise and Toshiba's purchase of the Sony's Cell factory, therefore at the time of this presentation, Super Upconversion or Super Resolution was intended for their laptops and TV sets, and the inclusion of Cell processors wasn't contemplated at that time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1qxa1zv5uI

Originally posted by ematrix:

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the inclusion of Cell processors wasn't contemplated at that time.

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Originally posted by juankerr:

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Actually, the SpursEngine in the laptops used in the youtube video is based on the Cell processor. It's a scaled down Cell with 4 SPE's instead of 8.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpursEngine

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Originally posted by dblbogey7:

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I guess a Cell-based system could do it but considering the fact that your source is a regular DVD with MPEG2 compression I have my doubts, so to speak.

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Quote:

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Converting DVD into HD DVD

Nestares says that the algorithm is written to scale to the number of cores that it runs on: the more cores available, the more the processing gets divided up. "Different regions [of the video] are assigned to different cores," says Nestares. Using this method, it would take about 150 cores to convert DVD video into HD DVD in real time, he says.

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The ONLY reason Toshiba's HD-DVD failed is because of the Sony pay-off of Warner to ditch Toshiba. It was a lack of software issue. If you can deliver near-HD-DVD from DVD you have the entire DVD library available while Sony has a miniscule Blu Ray library to tout. The lack of software issue instantly turns around.

I doubt that this will give identical to HD results, but if it is significantly closer than current up-converting, which most folks are happy with, in the eyes of Joe Average Consumer, it will be be a real hard kick to the cajones to Sony from which Blu Ray may never recover. Could not happen to nicer guys.

Good luck Toshiba!

Originally posted by SDF_GR:

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Toshiba is on the way to another failure.
They failed with a media as powerful as BD, with players cheaper than DVD's,movies cheap as the DVD's.

Now that the BD hardware is dropping, the FULL HDTV's dropping too, BD having P2.0 and most of the staff that HD-DVD had and BD being still unlocked.....They expect that with an inferior media/format than HD-DVD and more expensive , to beat BD? wtf?

+ HD-DVD was supported by universal, paramount, MS/360. who TF will support this format??

and at the bottom of this....
who will trust them now??? more than one million people saw there money fly away when WB said BD only, are they gonna trust them again?

It looks like a Titan size failure.

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Reality check...this is for existing DVD's. Works with everything Joe Consumer already owns. Don't need to replace any disks. Don't need to bribe any studios to drop the competing format. Don't need to pay ridiculous Blu ray disk prices or replace DVD's you already have.

Can you say "soiled panties over at Sony" IF it is nearly as good as Toshiba says.

Originally posted by atomicxl:

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Well, i'm assuming the video quality looks like what your typical HD torrent looks like: Worse than a Blu-Ray, better than upscaled DVD. I'm also assuming it'll do upscaling thats at least as good as the PS3. I think the players should also play back a wide variety of media formats so that its got value beyond just purchased discs. I think this format only has a chance if it can compete successfully in two ways:

1) Price. It needs to be cheap. I think $200 would even be too much. They basically need to be selling for clearout HD-DVD Player prices of like $99.99-149.99. I think that over $200 will have people just putting the money aside for a Blu-Ray player. Not only that, but the media needs to be cheap. If the DVD sells for $14.99, this needs to be like $17.99 max.

2) Studio support is critical. If none of the big companies are putting out content its pointless to own one.

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I dought if toshiba could pull this off, but it would be nice if they could stick it up sony's hole.

Originally posted by nopcbs:

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Reality check...this is for existing DVD's. Works with everything Joe Consumer already owns. Don't need to replace any disks. Don't need to bribe any studios to drop the competing format. Don't need to pay ridiculous Blu ray disk prices or replace DVD's you already have.

Can you say "soiled panties over at Sony" IF it is nearly as good as Toshiba says.

Originally posted by atomicxl:

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Well, i'm assuming the video quality looks like what your typical HD torrent looks like: Worse than a Blu-Ray, better than upscaled DVD. I'm also assuming it'll do upscaling thats at least as good as the PS3. I think the players should also play back a wide variety of media formats so that its got value beyond just purchased discs. I think this format only has a chance if it can compete successfully in two ways:

1) Price. It needs to be cheap. I think $200 would even be too much. They basically need to be selling for clearout HD-DVD Player prices of like $99.99-149.99. I think that over $200 will have people just putting the money aside for a Blu-Ray player. Not only that, but the media needs to be cheap. If the DVD sells for $14.99, this needs to be like $17.99 max.

2) Studio support is critical. If none of the big companies are putting out content its pointless to own one.

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Toshiba's SRT Demo'ed In London: Described As "FANCIABLE NONSENSE"

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Toshiba explained to the assembled press at today's event that their technology would "add resolution", and "fill in the gaps", providing stronger colours and clarity where it was missing. They showed two TVs both displaying the same content, one at standard definition, and one using their upscaling device, and whilst the latter did look more impressive, it would pale in comparison if shown next to a true HD source. Which Toshiba obviously didn't do, as they're no longer endorsing HD DVD and will never support Blu-ray.

After receiving some far from publishable questions and insults from the assembled journalists ("fanciable nonsense" was one of the kinder remarks from a journalist during the Q&A session), the representatives, including Emily Shirley, Head of Product Marketing at Toshiba Europe were obviously getting irate.

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That's very nice. except what really will matter is what not some journalists think, but rather what customers (who are already pretty happy with upconverted DVD, thank you) will think. I look forward to seeing this for myself and care not a bit what some journalist says/thinks. Frankly, don't trust 'em.

- nopcbs

Originally posted by eatsushi:

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Toshiba's SRT Demo'ed In London: Described As "FANCIABLE NONSENSE"

Quote:

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Toshiba explained to the assembled press at today's event that their technology would "add resolution", and "fill in the gaps", providing stronger colours and clarity where it was missing. They showed two TVs both displaying the same content, one at standard definition, and one using their upscaling device, and whilst the latter did look more impressive, it would pale in comparison if shown next to a true HD source. Which Toshiba obviously didn't do, as they're no longer endorsing HD DVD and will never support Blu-ray.

After receiving some far from publishable questions and insults from the assembled journalists ("fanciable nonsense" was one of the kinder remarks from a journalist during the Q&A session), the representatives, including Emily Shirley, Head of Product Marketing at Toshiba Europe were obviously getting irate.

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Originally posted by eatsushi:

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Toshiba's SRT Demo'ed In London: Described As "FANCIABLE NONSENSE"

Quote:

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After receiving some far from publishable questions and insults from the assembled journalists ("fanciable nonsense" was one of the kinder remarks from a journalist during the Q&A session), the representatives, including Emily Shirley, Head of Product Marketing at Toshiba Europe were obviously getting irate.

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Is this like playing a VHS through a S-VHS system?

Just an update to this news item:

http://www.areadvd.de/news/2008/07/09/if...sor-resolution/

Toshiba officially names this new technology RESOLUTION+.

It will be included in their upcoming Picture Frame line of ZF Regza HDTV's which will have their own Cell based co-processor.

So far no DVD players have been announced with Resolution+.

Quote:

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How Resolution+ works:

"Resolution +" image processing depends on the image content and consists of three steps.

Firstly, the picture is divided in several areas, according to three picture categories: "highly detailed", "sharp-edged" and "dark and non-detailed".

Secondly, each of these areas is processed. For "highly detailed" areas, a computing algorithm calculates the finer details. "Sharp-edged" areas are smoothed. Dark areas as well as those that have scarce detail undergo no picture processing in order to avoid unnecessary video noise.

Finally, artifacts that the calculation process may have caused are corrected.

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spam removed by loco

spam removed by loco

Seriously, it keeps getting better and better with movies and so forth becoming better and better quality. I can't wait to be able to check it out with my killer surround system and Rusty Truck on the TV doing a concert! Now that's heaven!

@loco

how do you manage to find spam on such old news articles?